| turboICE | 11-17-2005 10:02 AM |
[QUOTE=kfoote]I have been in more accidents involving body damage on the street than in SCCA races (25 or so SCCA Races + 100+ DE/Time Trial days)
[/QUOTE]
In 20 years on the street I have been in 6 accidents on the street that were more than insignificant, including two totalled cars and three different extended physical therapy series for whiplash. In two years in W2W there have been several scrapes and two big hits and one small one. The street incidents cost far more - but that doesn't make the track safer than street overall - even if I had had no contact on track that still wouldn't be the case, since my time and mileage on track in the past 4 years is less than 0.1% of the time and mileage on the street in 20.
Consider the number of hours and miles travelled on the street, compared to the track. Exrapolate out your current number of hours and miles on the track to be even 10% of the the amount of your street time and I am willing to bet you would have more track incidents than you could recollect. Mile for mile, hour for hour property and health are safer on the street than W2W on the track.
Again a person and their car are not in open terms safer on the track than the street - they are safer driving their car to a high level of performance on the track than they are on the street. It is trying to drive their car at a high level of performance on the street that is really the high risk activity.
[/QUOTE]
In 20 years on the street I have been in 6 accidents on the street that were more than insignificant, including two totalled cars and three different extended physical therapy series for whiplash. In two years in W2W there have been several scrapes and two big hits and one small one. The street incidents cost far more - but that doesn't make the track safer than street overall - even if I had had no contact on track that still wouldn't be the case, since my time and mileage on track in the past 4 years is less than 0.1% of the time and mileage on the street in 20.
Consider the number of hours and miles travelled on the street, compared to the track. Exrapolate out your current number of hours and miles on the track to be even 10% of the the amount of your street time and I am willing to bet you would have more track incidents than you could recollect. Mile for mile, hour for hour property and health are safer on the street than W2W on the track.
Again a person and their car are not in open terms safer on the track than the street - they are safer driving their car to a high level of performance on the track than they are on the street. It is trying to drive their car at a high level of performance on the street that is really the high risk activity.
| GarySheehan | 11-17-2005 11:24 AM |
[QUOTE=Silverrex04]I am far more comfortable at 100+ mph with other cars just feet away from me on track than I am on the highway at 65 with some giant SUV trying to merge into traffic beside me. I trust the other drivers around me on track to be aware of their surroundings unlike the general public.[/quote]
Interesting. I don't trust anyone on the street or track, period. But I am comfortable in not trusting them. I've had my share of run-ins with idiots on the track.
I probably have the same level of situational awareness on the street as I do on the track. I can't tell you how many times I've avoided incidents on the street due to bonehead maneuvers from idiot drivers. Because everything is occuring so far below the limits of the vehicles involved, evasive maneuvers are a non-issue.
[QUOTE=Silverrex04]HPDEs are one of the best ways to "safely" explore the limits of your car and abilities in a controlled environment. You will learn car controll skills that will help to make you a better and safer driver on the street.[/QUOTE]
I would say it's the safest way to explore the limits of your car, but it is not inherently safe.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Interesting. I don't trust anyone on the street or track, period. But I am comfortable in not trusting them. I've had my share of run-ins with idiots on the track.
I probably have the same level of situational awareness on the street as I do on the track. I can't tell you how many times I've avoided incidents on the street due to bonehead maneuvers from idiot drivers. Because everything is occuring so far below the limits of the vehicles involved, evasive maneuvers are a non-issue.
[QUOTE=Silverrex04]HPDEs are one of the best ways to "safely" explore the limits of your car and abilities in a controlled environment. You will learn car controll skills that will help to make you a better and safer driver on the street.[/QUOTE]
I would say it's the safest way to explore the limits of your car, but it is not inherently safe.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| makofoto | 11-17-2005 12:02 PM |
THE Safest Way is Auto Cross ! :D
| turboICE | 11-17-2005 12:21 PM |
Umm, yeah. Tell that to the guy sitting in the porta pottie.
[IMG]http://s90720191.onlinehome.us/philly-autocross.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://s90720191.onlinehome.us/philly-autocross1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://s90720191.onlinehome.us/philly-autocross.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://s90720191.onlinehome.us/philly-autocross1.jpg[/IMG]
| super-ru | 11-17-2005 12:30 PM |
ahhh, don't make me paranoid guys, I'm planning on attending a few track days next year as a track is being built out side of Salt Lake City. Now I don't even wanna go, lol.
| Silverrex04 | 11-17-2005 01:44 PM |
[QUOTE]I don't trust anyone on the street or track, period. But I am comfortable in not trusting them. I've had my share of run-ins with idiots on the track.[/QUOTE]
I don't trust anyone on the street either. On track that is a completely different story. I have been doing HPDEs for 12 years and instructing for the last 8. There are a number of instructors that I know and trust implicitly not to do something boneheaded that I have driven with for a very long time. Could something happen, sure. But I would rather have them at my passenger side door going into a corner than Suzy Soccer Mom.
[QUOTE]I would say it's the safest way to explore the limits of your car, but it is not inherently safe.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much what I was getting at. Notice the "" around safely.
I don't trust anyone on the street either. On track that is a completely different story. I have been doing HPDEs for 12 years and instructing for the last 8. There are a number of instructors that I know and trust implicitly not to do something boneheaded that I have driven with for a very long time. Could something happen, sure. But I would rather have them at my passenger side door going into a corner than Suzy Soccer Mom.
[QUOTE]I would say it's the safest way to explore the limits of your car, but it is not inherently safe.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much what I was getting at. Notice the "" around safely.
| GarySheehan | 11-17-2005 04:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Silverrex04]But I would rather have them at my passenger side door going into a corner than Suzy Soccer Mom. [/QUOTE]
Why are you side-by-side with Suzy Soccer Mom going into a corner?!
:devil:
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Why are you side-by-side with Suzy Soccer Mom going into a corner?!
:devil:
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| merlot | 11-17-2005 04:18 PM |
I have yet to do a HPDE (I currently only autox), but I assume it's safer than the road because a track is a controlled enviroment and the street is not. Also, I assume people at the track take their driving and responsibilty seriously, unlike you find on the road every day.
In fact, I do beleive this applies even more to motorcyclists. I've read about more than one person who has given up street riding and sticks to the track only because they feel it's much safer.
However, my views may change once I actually take my car or motorcycle to the track.
In fact, I do beleive this applies even more to motorcyclists. I've read about more than one person who has given up street riding and sticks to the track only because they feel it's much safer.
However, my views may change once I actually take my car or motorcycle to the track.
| turboICE | 11-17-2005 04:26 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]Why are you side-by-side with Suzy Soccer Mom going into a corner?![/QUOTE]Yeah couldn't you out brake her? ;)
| jmott | 11-17-2005 05:36 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]No offense to you, kfoote, because a lot of people say that, but I always get a kick out of this line of thought. How is it possible that driving your car at the limit on the track is [U]safer[/U] than driving your car WELL below any limit on the street?
There's definitely more chance of low-speed minor fender benders on the street, but at the speeds in HPDE's, the risks are much higher.
How many times have you flown off the street into the grass because of a driving mistake you made that you couldn't recover from?
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Yeah, also, "being smart about it" would imply never really finding the limits of the car. Finding the limits of the car is kind of the whole point for some of us though. I have no interest in doing an HPDE just to lap around at a comfortable pace.
It also implies that you can control the others at an HPDE to be "smart about it" also. Which you can't.
There's definitely more chance of low-speed minor fender benders on the street, but at the speeds in HPDE's, the risks are much higher.
How many times have you flown off the street into the grass because of a driving mistake you made that you couldn't recover from?
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Yeah, also, "being smart about it" would imply never really finding the limits of the car. Finding the limits of the car is kind of the whole point for some of us though. I have no interest in doing an HPDE just to lap around at a comfortable pace.
It also implies that you can control the others at an HPDE to be "smart about it" also. Which you can't.
| adhowe70 | 11-17-2005 08:19 PM |
"being smart about it" doesn't necessarily mean always underdriving your car.
"being smart about it" means understanding when making a mistake results in a harmless highspeed slide throught the grass and understanding when it means 50 feet of grass followed by a tire wall. If you can't make that distinction then it does mean always underdriving your car.
Regarding other drivers at HPDE, I do not run events where passing in the corners is allowed. I definitely prefer events where "point by" is required. It keeps me out of the "gray areas" with drivers I don't know. I can only think of two reasons that an incident would happen with another driver if you follow these rules: mechanical (brakes? brakes!), driving like an assclown. I trust the folks I track with enough to believe that the second won't happen.
"being smart about it" means understanding when making a mistake results in a harmless highspeed slide throught the grass and understanding when it means 50 feet of grass followed by a tire wall. If you can't make that distinction then it does mean always underdriving your car.
Regarding other drivers at HPDE, I do not run events where passing in the corners is allowed. I definitely prefer events where "point by" is required. It keeps me out of the "gray areas" with drivers I don't know. I can only think of two reasons that an incident would happen with another driver if you follow these rules: mechanical (brakes? brakes!), driving like an assclown. I trust the folks I track with enough to believe that the second won't happen.
| Silverrex04 | 11-17-2005 09:38 PM |
[QUOTE]Why are you side-by-side with Suzy Soccer Mom going into a corner?![/QUOTE]
Because I am driving my slow Civic! ;)
Because I am driving my slow Civic! ;)
| Scooby Freak | 11-18-2005 07:48 AM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]THE Safest Way is Auto Cross ! :D[/QUOTE][QUOTE=turboICE]Umm, yeah. Tell that to the guy sitting in the porta pottie.[/QUOTE]I agree with makofoto, I have only seen one accident in over a hundred autocrosses, but every time I visit Summit Point, somebody ends up in the tirewall. I've decided that I'm not going back out on track, until I can bring a car that I don't need to bring home. Autocrossing just isn't that risky.
| turboICE | 11-18-2005 08:13 AM |
I can only think of two cars in NASA HPDE this year that made contact with a wall at summit point. The rest of the incidents were in race groups - can't count those incidents against the HPDE parts. Again a matter of seat time an auto-cross event only gives you 6 minutes of seat time and 3 miles vs 90 minutes and 100 miles at a track day. Extend out the seat time of an auto-x and the incidents would add up.
Spending my whole day in a hot parking lot for 6 minutes of driving and 3 hours of chasing cones just doesn't do it for me.
Spending my whole day in a hot parking lot for 6 minutes of driving and 3 hours of chasing cones just doesn't do it for me.
| Butt Dyno | 11-18-2005 08:18 AM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]I can only think of two cars in NASA HPDE this year that made contact with a wall. The rest of the incidents were in race groups - can't count those incidents against a the HPDE parts.[/QUOTE]
Were you at the September 24-25 event? :)
911 GT3, E36 M3, some old BMW, and a brand new (1500 miles) Evo. I guess technically the Evo was the only one that hit a concrete wall, but they all went off and had significant damage...
Were you at the September 24-25 event? :)
911 GT3, E36 M3, some old BMW, and a brand new (1500 miles) Evo. I guess technically the Evo was the only one that hit a concrete wall, but they all went off and had significant damage...
| Scooby Freak | 11-18-2005 08:27 AM |
:shrugs: I went to FATT three times last summer. At the last one, I saw three cars get banged up. At this event, the grass was wet, so I know that made it a lot worse. The two I remember, were an A4 at the inside of turn 5 & an S2000 at the inside of turn 10. The A4 just bumped the tires, but the S2000, pushed all the tires out of the way & hit the pitwall.
| turboICE | 11-18-2005 08:34 AM |
I can't speak to FATT as I have never been so I don't know the level of instruction or control and wouldn't extend their incidents to other clubs. I know NASA and BMW days there are reigned in very well with minimal incidents.
I was there at all NASA events and the Evo was one of the ones I was counting and that is something that anyone who wants to bring their car home could have completely avoided - that wall is the most perfect example of one that should never be hit in an HPDE. Hitting that wall is a driver decision - if you come to the event with your head on straight and listen to your in class and in car instructor you won't hit it.
Don't try to save it and you won't hit it. I have gone off as a driver and instructor in T10 at least a dozen times - and as long as you don't jerk the wheel and jump back on to the tarmac you can't hit that wall. In W2W races, I have spun there twice and seen others spin there as well and as long as you go two feet in and don't try to save it again you aren't going to hit that wall.
I believe the others are dedicated track cars and they drive their cars hard - you don't have to do that to safely participate in an HPDE.
Can incidents happen of course they can - but their numbers are insignificant relative to participant levels.
I was there at all NASA events and the Evo was one of the ones I was counting and that is something that anyone who wants to bring their car home could have completely avoided - that wall is the most perfect example of one that should never be hit in an HPDE. Hitting that wall is a driver decision - if you come to the event with your head on straight and listen to your in class and in car instructor you won't hit it.
Don't try to save it and you won't hit it. I have gone off as a driver and instructor in T10 at least a dozen times - and as long as you don't jerk the wheel and jump back on to the tarmac you can't hit that wall. In W2W races, I have spun there twice and seen others spin there as well and as long as you go two feet in and don't try to save it again you aren't going to hit that wall.
I believe the others are dedicated track cars and they drive their cars hard - you don't have to do that to safely participate in an HPDE.
Can incidents happen of course they can - but their numbers are insignificant relative to participant levels.
| gills | 11-18-2005 12:37 PM |
Turbo,
I'm really not so sure what my brother did. From behind him it looked like that right when we started to track out the car just kept wanting to turn in the same arc of the turn then just whipped out, did a complete 180 then went onto the grass going backwards and smashed the driver side on the tirewall. If you traced a line on turn 1 and kept going in the same arc as the turn when it starts to straighten out it more or less connects with right where my brother hit. My brother claims that he didn't even have time to correct which seems to be true. I think if he had corrected it would've benefitted him rather than caused more destruction.
Reason is last year when i was 2 cars behind my friend coming out of the same turn he started to slide and was heading in the same direction as my brother, i.e. the tirewall. The only significant difference was he corrected and the car whipped back around and stayed on the pavement. I think "big bend" might be one exception where correcting will cause a more dramatic ending.
But anyone who is claiming that they are now scared to attend HPDE's because of this thread, DON'T BE! Let incidents like these that happen to other people be more of a lesson that's learned in a textbook rather than real life. Just be careful and have good judgement about everything. HPDE's make you a better and safer driver on the street IMO because it help gets the need for speed out of your system and helps teach car control in high speed situations. ATTEND THEM! :cool:
Tom
I'm really not so sure what my brother did. From behind him it looked like that right when we started to track out the car just kept wanting to turn in the same arc of the turn then just whipped out, did a complete 180 then went onto the grass going backwards and smashed the driver side on the tirewall. If you traced a line on turn 1 and kept going in the same arc as the turn when it starts to straighten out it more or less connects with right where my brother hit. My brother claims that he didn't even have time to correct which seems to be true. I think if he had corrected it would've benefitted him rather than caused more destruction.
Reason is last year when i was 2 cars behind my friend coming out of the same turn he started to slide and was heading in the same direction as my brother, i.e. the tirewall. The only significant difference was he corrected and the car whipped back around and stayed on the pavement. I think "big bend" might be one exception where correcting will cause a more dramatic ending.
But anyone who is claiming that they are now scared to attend HPDE's because of this thread, DON'T BE! Let incidents like these that happen to other people be more of a lesson that's learned in a textbook rather than real life. Just be careful and have good judgement about everything. HPDE's make you a better and safer driver on the street IMO because it help gets the need for speed out of your system and helps teach car control in high speed situations. ATTEND THEM! :cool:
Tom
| endeavor | 11-18-2005 12:40 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]I can only think of two cars in NASA HPDE this year that made contact with a wall at summit point. The rest of the incidents were in race groups - can't count those incidents against the HPDE parts. Again a matter of seat time an auto-cross event only gives you 6 minutes of seat time and 3 miles vs 90 minutes and 100 miles at a track day. Extend out the seat time of an auto-x and the incidents would add up.[/QUOTE]
NASA or SCCA must have incidents per minutes of seat time statistics somewhere. It would be REALLY nice if those numbers were available to the community.
NASA or SCCA must have incidents per minutes of seat time statistics somewhere. It would be REALLY nice if those numbers were available to the community.
| kfoote | 11-18-2005 12:52 PM |
[QUOTE=gills]Turbo,
I'm really not so sure what my brother did. From behind him it looked like that right when we started to track out the car just kept wanting to turn in the same arc of the turn then just whipped out, did a complete 180 then went onto the grass going backwards and smashed the driver side on the tirewall. If you traced a line on turn 1 and kept going in the same arc as the turn when it starts to straighten out it more or less connects with right where my brother hit. My brother claims that he didn't even have time to correct which seems to be true. I think if he had corrected it would've benefitted him rather than caused more destruction.
Reason is last year when i was 2 cars behind my friend coming out of the same turn he started to slide and was heading in the same direction as my brother, i.e. the tirewall. The only significant difference was he corrected and the car whipped back around and stayed on the pavement. I think "big bend" might be one exception where correcting will cause a more dramatic ending.
But anyone who is claiming that they are now scared to attend HPDE's because of this thread, DON'T BE! Let incidents like these that happen to other people be more of a lesson that's learned in a textbook rather than real life. Just be careful and have good judgement about everything. HPDE's make you a better and safer driver on the street IMO because it help gets the need for speed out of your system and helps teach car control in high speed situations. ATTEND THEM! :cool:
Tom[/QUOTE]
That is one of the most common ways to bend sheet metal at Lime Rock.
Usually it is a result of the driver either going off track, or thinking they're going to drop whees off the outside, and yanking the car back to the right. IIRC, the track first loses camber at mid-track, then gains it about 3' from track out. The front tires getting to the banking and suddenly having more grip than the back can cause the back of the car to snap around if there is too much steering angle. The banking change is very subtle, but it is there, and does make a difference. The best thing to do is unwind the steering wheel and go off track on driver's left, but you have to realize what's going on well before it actually happens, like within about 2 car lengths after the second apex of Big Bend.
Lime Rock is also EXTREMEELY tempreature sensitive. If the track temp is below about 60 degrees, there is very little grip.
I'm really not so sure what my brother did. From behind him it looked like that right when we started to track out the car just kept wanting to turn in the same arc of the turn then just whipped out, did a complete 180 then went onto the grass going backwards and smashed the driver side on the tirewall. If you traced a line on turn 1 and kept going in the same arc as the turn when it starts to straighten out it more or less connects with right where my brother hit. My brother claims that he didn't even have time to correct which seems to be true. I think if he had corrected it would've benefitted him rather than caused more destruction.
Reason is last year when i was 2 cars behind my friend coming out of the same turn he started to slide and was heading in the same direction as my brother, i.e. the tirewall. The only significant difference was he corrected and the car whipped back around and stayed on the pavement. I think "big bend" might be one exception where correcting will cause a more dramatic ending.
But anyone who is claiming that they are now scared to attend HPDE's because of this thread, DON'T BE! Let incidents like these that happen to other people be more of a lesson that's learned in a textbook rather than real life. Just be careful and have good judgement about everything. HPDE's make you a better and safer driver on the street IMO because it help gets the need for speed out of your system and helps teach car control in high speed situations. ATTEND THEM! :cool:
Tom[/QUOTE]
That is one of the most common ways to bend sheet metal at Lime Rock.
Usually it is a result of the driver either going off track, or thinking they're going to drop whees off the outside, and yanking the car back to the right. IIRC, the track first loses camber at mid-track, then gains it about 3' from track out. The front tires getting to the banking and suddenly having more grip than the back can cause the back of the car to snap around if there is too much steering angle. The banking change is very subtle, but it is there, and does make a difference. The best thing to do is unwind the steering wheel and go off track on driver's left, but you have to realize what's going on well before it actually happens, like within about 2 car lengths after the second apex of Big Bend.
Lime Rock is also EXTREMEELY tempreature sensitive. If the track temp is below about 60 degrees, there is very little grip.
| Silverrex04 | 11-18-2005 01:33 PM |
[QUOTE=gills]Turbo,
But anyone who is claiming that they are now scared to attend HPDE's because of this thread, DON'T BE! Let incidents like these that happen to other people be more of a lesson that's learned in a textbook rather than real life. Just be careful and have good judgement about everything. HPDE's make you a better and safer driver on the street IMO because it help gets the need for speed out of your system and helps teach car control in high speed situations. ATTEND THEM! :cool:
Tom[/QUOTE]
AMEN!
I really believe in the lessons learned on track making a person a better driver. You must remember in doing any type of motorsport that there can be high risks. At the track I have seen cars damaged and some to the point of being unrecognizeable. I have not seen anyone hurt worse than a broken coller bone. Not that it couldn't happen. I have always tried to drive within my abilities and have been fortunate to track the same car undamaged in well over 50 events.
Go find a professional group to run with like BMWCCA or NASA and GET ON TRACK!
But anyone who is claiming that they are now scared to attend HPDE's because of this thread, DON'T BE! Let incidents like these that happen to other people be more of a lesson that's learned in a textbook rather than real life. Just be careful and have good judgement about everything. HPDE's make you a better and safer driver on the street IMO because it help gets the need for speed out of your system and helps teach car control in high speed situations. ATTEND THEM! :cool:
Tom[/QUOTE]
AMEN!
I really believe in the lessons learned on track making a person a better driver. You must remember in doing any type of motorsport that there can be high risks. At the track I have seen cars damaged and some to the point of being unrecognizeable. I have not seen anyone hurt worse than a broken coller bone. Not that it couldn't happen. I have always tried to drive within my abilities and have been fortunate to track the same car undamaged in well over 50 events.
Go find a professional group to run with like BMWCCA or NASA and GET ON TRACK!
| KIDREX | 11-18-2005 01:44 PM |
[QUOTE=kfoote]Lime Rock is also EXTREMEELY tempreature sensitive. If the track temp is below about 60 degrees, there is very little grip.[/QUOTE]
yeah and in my mind it was like 30 that day...not actually that cold but it was pretty cold out there and no sun whatsoever
i dont see what the argument is over these being safe or safer or less safe. Either you do it or you dont. I personally cannot sit in a lot all day for the minutes of driving you get from autocrossing. Its just personal preference. Personally, in all honesty, i really cannot afford it at the moment, but i also can't stop doing it either; man they really dont pay us engineers enough these days. Instead i try to stay a little one the safe side as others have mentioned and only really "try" things where there is some runoff room. for example, me in the mud
yeah and in my mind it was like 30 that day...not actually that cold but it was pretty cold out there and no sun whatsoever
i dont see what the argument is over these being safe or safer or less safe. Either you do it or you dont. I personally cannot sit in a lot all day for the minutes of driving you get from autocrossing. Its just personal preference. Personally, in all honesty, i really cannot afford it at the moment, but i also can't stop doing it either; man they really dont pay us engineers enough these days. Instead i try to stay a little one the safe side as others have mentioned and only really "try" things where there is some runoff room. for example, me in the mud
| turboICE | 11-18-2005 02:07 PM |
[QUOTE=KIDREX]man they really dont pay us engineers enough these days. [/QUOTE]No one active in motorsports as a hobby is paid enough - there is no cure for this disease just the consumption of all discretionary income. Although I would argue once you have the bug it is no longer discretionary, but has become a necessary expenditure.
| 4or2wheels | 11-22-2005 10:41 AM |
Good thread, I'd like to add my 02cents
The bulk of my track time has been on a motorcycle. I have done a few events in a car but not enough for any serious feedback.
I have been doing track days since the 80's with a season of racing at Bridgehampton, LI. I also ride on the street alot. I average about 8000miles a year on the street over a 20+ year period.
In the car or on my bike on the street I never go beyond 7-8/10ths. When I hit the track I am always trying to go as fast as I can. Once warmed up I start pushing and sometime's fall down in the process. The only place to push a car/bike to its and your potential is on the track. I would bump fairings and slide both wheels on a regular basis when racing bikes.
I have maybe 2-3000miles of track/race time under my belt over 26 years with 3 accidents on the track. On the street I've had two accidents with close to 200,000miles, does that make the track more dangerous? No
I tend to push it hard at the track and when your trying to find that balance of speed and control you are more likely to have a mishap.
The bulk of my track time has been on a motorcycle. I have done a few events in a car but not enough for any serious feedback.
I have been doing track days since the 80's with a season of racing at Bridgehampton, LI. I also ride on the street alot. I average about 8000miles a year on the street over a 20+ year period.
In the car or on my bike on the street I never go beyond 7-8/10ths. When I hit the track I am always trying to go as fast as I can. Once warmed up I start pushing and sometime's fall down in the process. The only place to push a car/bike to its and your potential is on the track. I would bump fairings and slide both wheels on a regular basis when racing bikes.
I have maybe 2-3000miles of track/race time under my belt over 26 years with 3 accidents on the track. On the street I've had two accidents with close to 200,000miles, does that make the track more dangerous? No
I tend to push it hard at the track and when your trying to find that balance of speed and control you are more likely to have a mishap.
| gills | 11-26-2005 05:00 PM |
[QUOTE=4or2wheels]Good thread, I'd like to add my 02cents
I have been doing track days since the 80's with a season of racing at Bridgehampton, LI. I also ride on the street alot. I average about 8000miles a year on the street over a 20+ year period.
[/QUOTE]
Oh my...How i wish everyday that the track was still there. I can keep dreaming though.......
I have been doing track days since the 80's with a season of racing at Bridgehampton, LI. I also ride on the street alot. I average about 8000miles a year on the street over a 20+ year period.
[/QUOTE]
Oh my...How i wish everyday that the track was still there. I can keep dreaming though.......
| getfast | 11-27-2005 11:47 AM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]I can only think of two cars in NASA HPDE this year that made contact with a wall at summit point.[/QUOTE]
Not sure if I'm one of the two you can think of, but that was me and my [URL=http://www.get-fast.net/bmw/driver]gold E30[/URL] on Shenandoah Circuit in June, totalled on the 4th lap of the first instructor session on Saturday. **** happens, so be it... perhaps it was god's way of telling me to get out of BMWs and buy a WRX. :banana:
Jon
Not sure if I'm one of the two you can think of, but that was me and my [URL=http://www.get-fast.net/bmw/driver]gold E30[/URL] on Shenandoah Circuit in June, totalled on the 4th lap of the first instructor session on Saturday. **** happens, so be it... perhaps it was god's way of telling me to get out of BMWs and buy a WRX. :banana:
Jon
| ANZAC_1915 | 11-27-2005 06:22 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]?! You're not supposed to RACE. Driving your car at 10/10ths is fine.
Just understand there is no room for error at 10/10ths and you WILL go off if you make one. That last 1/10th can get expensive.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
At the HPDEs I've done they usually tell us 7/10, which for most people is prolly 9/10 because they don't know their limits.
Just understand there is no room for error at 10/10ths and you WILL go off if you make one. That last 1/10th can get expensive.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
At the HPDEs I've done they usually tell us 7/10, which for most people is prolly 9/10 because they don't know their limits.
| adhowe70 | 11-27-2005 08:55 PM |
Glenn,
They tell YOU 7/10ths. We've all heard your "Maximum Attack!" stories. ;)
They tell the rest of us 9/10ths. :lol: :lol:
They tell YOU 7/10ths. We've all heard your "Maximum Attack!" stories. ;)
They tell the rest of us 9/10ths. :lol: :lol:
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