| ralliharri | 08-20-2006 04:12 AM |
[QUOTE=steev]"Absolutely not! He's good but he also has good luck and the best car. Just look at Gardemeister, he does his, what, 2nd or 3rd WRC and beats Gr�nholm on some stages in Germany in a Cittro. Though I think Ford should've kept Toni in Ford instead of Mikko but rumor has it Mikko brought some sponsor money with him to Ford and Toni couldnt bring any. Make no mistake, I like both my countrymen but think Toni is the better and mature driver right now and yeah, I know Fords official version was they wanted one world champion caliber driver and one young driver.
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I am sorry, but is it just me or does the above comment regarding Loeb's talent seem devoid of any pragmatism? First off, the Citroen Xsara is not longer being developed. As in: there is not much performance to get out of it anymore at this point. So, inherently, it is an almost 2 year-old car battling a new Subaru and a newly developed Focus. How can you peg the advantage to just the car? Furthermore, by reading the stage results and time sheets for the ongoing rally, it is rather obvious that Gronholm is beating him. So, should we then attribute his success solely to the Focus and disregard his driving ability? Of course not! I also don't think you can be just lucky so many times. You can definitely "create" your own luck by being consistent, having a clean driving style and other qualities that are just traits of a talented driver. Let's give credit where it is due. One does not equal a 26 WRC victory record without talent. Especially when it took king Carlos 15 years to accomplish, and only 5 years for Loeb...[/QUOTE]
Obviously you didnt read further than the first sentence, same problem as many other posters here. Why do so many drivers all of a sudden do good results when they get in the Cittro? Of course Loeb is good, I said that, very good even, he has a very smooth driving style but he also has more "luck" than Marcus. I do believe that often times you creat your own luck by hard work but sometimes MG hits a rock slightly and hes out, Loeb does the same but he's 2 mm off and can finish. Or they both get off, Loeb doesnt hit anything but MG hits a tree or rock and is out.
I've been involved longer in motorsports longer than you've been alive most likely and motorsports in the dirt, i.e., MX, enduro, rally, rallycross, trials etc, always has more to do with driver than the vehicle, compared to tarmac events but then again, M/C RR has more rider talent input that its counterpart, car RR.
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I am sorry, but is it just me or does the above comment regarding Loeb's talent seem devoid of any pragmatism? First off, the Citroen Xsara is not longer being developed. As in: there is not much performance to get out of it anymore at this point. So, inherently, it is an almost 2 year-old car battling a new Subaru and a newly developed Focus. How can you peg the advantage to just the car? Furthermore, by reading the stage results and time sheets for the ongoing rally, it is rather obvious that Gronholm is beating him. So, should we then attribute his success solely to the Focus and disregard his driving ability? Of course not! I also don't think you can be just lucky so many times. You can definitely "create" your own luck by being consistent, having a clean driving style and other qualities that are just traits of a talented driver. Let's give credit where it is due. One does not equal a 26 WRC victory record without talent. Especially when it took king Carlos 15 years to accomplish, and only 5 years for Loeb...[/QUOTE]
Obviously you didnt read further than the first sentence, same problem as many other posters here. Why do so many drivers all of a sudden do good results when they get in the Cittro? Of course Loeb is good, I said that, very good even, he has a very smooth driving style but he also has more "luck" than Marcus. I do believe that often times you creat your own luck by hard work but sometimes MG hits a rock slightly and hes out, Loeb does the same but he's 2 mm off and can finish. Or they both get off, Loeb doesnt hit anything but MG hits a tree or rock and is out.
I've been involved longer in motorsports longer than you've been alive most likely and motorsports in the dirt, i.e., MX, enduro, rally, rallycross, trials etc, always has more to do with driver than the vehicle, compared to tarmac events but then again, M/C RR has more rider talent input that its counterpart, car RR.
| ralliharri | 08-20-2006 04:19 AM |
Mikko won his second SS in a row on the 19th specialstage, followed by Loeb and Gr�nholm.
| ralliharri | 08-20-2006 05:49 AM |
Mikko wins 3rd stage in a row, only one more to go.
| ralliharri | 08-20-2006 07:55 AM |
And the winner is.....MARCUS GR�NHOLM....!!!!!!!!!!!
| steev | 08-20-2006 10:13 AM |
Dear Ralliharri,
Thank you for your demonstration in our "cultural" differences... Thank you also for making assumptions regarding my age, experience in motorsports and my ability to read properly. You, like many other posters, don't deserve a reply the minute you make your response an attack on character instead of a clear argument.
The meta-message always gets lost in email/posts... No one was attacking you, just questioning the fariness of your comments.
Bye now. Enough time wasted here.
Thank you for your demonstration in our "cultural" differences... Thank you also for making assumptions regarding my age, experience in motorsports and my ability to read properly. You, like many other posters, don't deserve a reply the minute you make your response an attack on character instead of a clear argument.
The meta-message always gets lost in email/posts... No one was attacking you, just questioning the fariness of your comments.
Bye now. Enough time wasted here.
| steev | 08-20-2006 10:17 AM |
BTW, there is only one T in Citroen...
| Weasel 555 | 08-20-2006 12:54 PM |
Marcus Gronholm in the Ford Focus wins WRC Finland :banana:
For the sixth time since 2000, Marcus Gr�nholm and Timo Rautiainen (Ford/BFGoodrich) have taken the laurels on their home event.
And once again, S�bastien Loeb and Daniel Elena emerged as the Finnish pair's biggest threat until a concealed stone dashed the Citro�n/BFGoodrich crew's hopes on the afternoon of Day 2. The BP-Ford/BFGoodrich team's other Finns Mikko Hirvonen/Jarmo Lehtinen joined Marcus and Timo in the top-three to pick up a podium finish on home soil.
Results Overall:
1. Gronholm - Ford - 2h52'50"3
2. Loeb - Citroen - 2h53'57"0
3. Hirvonen - Ford - 2h54'24"8
4. H.Solberg - Pug 307 - 2h56'48"1
5. Galli - Pug 307 - 2h58'30"2
6. Tuohino - Citroen - 2h58'55"3
7.Valimaki - Mitsu - 2h59'45"7
8. Kopecky - Skoda - 3h03'05"3
9. Wilson - Ford - 3h07'37"6
10. Alen - Subaru - 3h10'00"6
11. Flodin - Subaru - 3h11'33"8
12. Atkinson - Subaru - 3h11'50"9
Driver Champ:
1. Loeb - 92
2.Gronholm - 61
3.Sordo - 41
4.Hirvonen - 27
5.Stohl - 24
6.P.Solberg - 20
7.Gerdemeister - 16
8.H.Solberg - 16
Constructors Champ:
1. Citroen - 122
2. Ford - 107
3. Subaru - 65
4.OMV Peugeot - 50
5. Stobart VK M-sp - 24
6. Skoda Red Bull - 22
For the sixth time since 2000, Marcus Gr�nholm and Timo Rautiainen (Ford/BFGoodrich) have taken the laurels on their home event.
And once again, S�bastien Loeb and Daniel Elena emerged as the Finnish pair's biggest threat until a concealed stone dashed the Citro�n/BFGoodrich crew's hopes on the afternoon of Day 2. The BP-Ford/BFGoodrich team's other Finns Mikko Hirvonen/Jarmo Lehtinen joined Marcus and Timo in the top-three to pick up a podium finish on home soil.
Results Overall:
1. Gronholm - Ford - 2h52'50"3
2. Loeb - Citroen - 2h53'57"0
3. Hirvonen - Ford - 2h54'24"8
4. H.Solberg - Pug 307 - 2h56'48"1
5. Galli - Pug 307 - 2h58'30"2
6. Tuohino - Citroen - 2h58'55"3
7.Valimaki - Mitsu - 2h59'45"7
8. Kopecky - Skoda - 3h03'05"3
9. Wilson - Ford - 3h07'37"6
10. Alen - Subaru - 3h10'00"6
11. Flodin - Subaru - 3h11'33"8
12. Atkinson - Subaru - 3h11'50"9
Driver Champ:
1. Loeb - 92
2.Gronholm - 61
3.Sordo - 41
4.Hirvonen - 27
5.Stohl - 24
6.P.Solberg - 20
7.Gerdemeister - 16
8.H.Solberg - 16
Constructors Champ:
1. Citroen - 122
2. Ford - 107
3. Subaru - 65
4.OMV Peugeot - 50
5. Stobart VK M-sp - 24
6. Skoda Red Bull - 22
| FaastLegacy | 08-21-2006 12:37 AM |
[QUOTE=bknblk]It's a good thing SWRT got rid of the Mikko kid... He sucks!!! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
He was better in the Focus before he joined SWRT than he was with SWRT. Mikko said himself at one point that he never felt totally "comfortable" in the Impreza.
He was better in the Focus before he joined SWRT than he was with SWRT. Mikko said himself at one point that he never felt totally "comfortable" in the Impreza.
| LastResort | 08-21-2006 01:05 AM |
[QUOTE=FaastLegacy]He was better in the Focus before he joined SWRT than he was with SWRT. Mikko said himself at one point that he never felt totally "comfortable" in the Impreza.[/QUOTE]
The more and more I watch, the more I'm reluctantly thinking it's a car/program problem. Which is very hard to correct unless the right people get on board. I just don't know the inner workings of SWRT/Prodrive enough to know if I'm totally off my rocker and Murphy is alive and well and a co-driver for Subaru, or if there really is a lack of leadership.
The more and more I watch, the more I'm reluctantly thinking it's a car/program problem. Which is very hard to correct unless the right people get on board. I just don't know the inner workings of SWRT/Prodrive enough to know if I'm totally off my rocker and Murphy is alive and well and a co-driver for Subaru, or if there really is a lack of leadership.
| WRXedUSA | 08-21-2006 09:44 AM |
[QUOTE=LastResort] or if there really is a lack of leadership.[/QUOTE]
That's already been changed to no result.
That's already been changed to no result.
| Italiano | 08-21-2006 11:13 AM |
man swrt ....spare us & just give up
seems prodrive no longer cares about wrc :(
seems prodrive no longer cares about wrc :(
| FaastLegacy | 08-21-2006 12:44 PM |
[QUOTE=Italiano]man swrt ....spare us & just give up
seems prodrive no longer cares about wrc :([/QUOTE]
Wasn't Prodrive's fault that Petter stuck it into the trees.....
I'll give you Chris's gearbox though.
seems prodrive no longer cares about wrc :([/QUOTE]
Wasn't Prodrive's fault that Petter stuck it into the trees.....
I'll give you Chris's gearbox though.
| GrinderAK | 08-21-2006 01:29 PM |
*shakes head in shame* c'mon swrt :(
| WRXedUSA | 08-21-2006 03:34 PM |
[QUOTE=FaastLegacy]
I'll give you Chris's gearbox though.[/QUOTE]
I'll take "gearbox" in the plural form for 500 Alex.
Germany 06 (Gearbox, Sarrazin)
Finland 06 (Gearbox, Atkinson)
Sweden 06 (Gearbox, Solberg)
I can't even count the amount of broken transmissions in 2005.
I'll give you Chris's gearbox though.[/QUOTE]
I'll take "gearbox" in the plural form for 500 Alex.
Germany 06 (Gearbox, Sarrazin)
Finland 06 (Gearbox, Atkinson)
Sweden 06 (Gearbox, Solberg)
I can't even count the amount of broken transmissions in 2005.
| flatfourwgn | 08-21-2006 11:30 PM |
...let alone driveshafts. I believe that Prodrive has spread itself too thin, w/Richards obtaining FIA rights as a F1 manufacturer, Aston Martin DBR9 LeMans projects (losing LeMans lead w/2h55m to go with... you guessed it, clutch problems :rolleyes: ), etc.
I feel sorry for Petter... ok, I wouldn't mind being in his position rallying a beast of an Impreza, but I'd be driven to score 10 points once in a while.
I feel sorry for Petter... ok, I wouldn't mind being in his position rallying a beast of an Impreza, but I'd be driven to score 10 points once in a while.
| runnah | 08-22-2006 12:02 PM |
I think SWRT has pretty much called this season a loss. From bits and pieces I've heard and read the 07 season will see some big changes and improvements. Like a new impreza platform....:D
They need to dump Atkinson IMO, he hasn't done much of anything this season besides crash out.
They need to dump Atkinson IMO, he hasn't done much of anything this season besides crash out.
| meebs | 08-23-2006 10:12 AM |
[QUOTE=flatfourwgn]...let alone driveshafts. I believe that Prodrive has spread itself too thin, w/Richards obtaining FIA rights as a F1 manufacturer, Aston Martin DBR9 LeMans projects (losing LeMans lead w/2h55m to go with... you guessed it, clutch problems :rolleyes: ), etc.
I feel sorry for Petter... ok, I wouldn't mind being in his position rallying a beast of an Impreza, but I'd be driven to score 10 points once in a while.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree with you more. It takes [b]a lot[/b] to be successful in F1.
I feel sorry for Petter... ok, I wouldn't mind being in his position rallying a beast of an Impreza, but I'd be driven to score 10 points once in a while.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree with you more. It takes [b]a lot[/b] to be successful in F1.
| meebs | 08-23-2006 10:14 AM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]I'll take "gearbox" in the plural form for 500 Alex.
Germany 06 (Gearbox, Sarrazin)
Finland 06 (Gearbox, Atkinson)
Sweden 06 (Gearbox, Solberg)
I can't even count the amount of broken transmissions in 2005.[/QUOTE]
Although it looks to me like Sarrazin destroyed the gearbox on his own. Flooring it in reverse with only one front wheel spinning couldn't have done the diffs any good. :o
Germany 06 (Gearbox, Sarrazin)
Finland 06 (Gearbox, Atkinson)
Sweden 06 (Gearbox, Solberg)
I can't even count the amount of broken transmissions in 2005.[/QUOTE]
Although it looks to me like Sarrazin destroyed the gearbox on his own. Flooring it in reverse with only one front wheel spinning couldn't have done the diffs any good. :o
| sb427f-car | 08-23-2006 05:59 PM |
[QUOTE=runnah]I think SWRT has pretty much called this season a loss. From bits and pieces I've heard and read the 07 season will see some big changes and improvements. Like a new impreza platform....:D
They need to dump Atkinson IMO, he hasn't done much of anything this season besides crash out.[/QUOTE]
Ohhhhh, spill the beans on that one!!!
They need to dump Atkinson IMO, he hasn't done much of anything this season besides crash out.[/QUOTE]
Ohhhhh, spill the beans on that one!!!
| psg | 08-23-2006 06:06 PM |
Maybe late-07 (last two rallies or so) will yield a new SWRT car based on the shortened-Legacy platform. I can't imagine them starting a brand-new car even at mid-season, considering the new Impreza (or whatever it's called) won't be revealed for quite some time.
| ozymandius | 08-23-2006 06:46 PM |
[QUOTE]Although it looks to me like Sarrazin destroyed the gearbox on his own. Flooring it in reverse with only one front wheel spinning couldn't have done the diffs any good. [/QUOTE]
Well, I could see why he did it. Obviously, the faster you get out of the ditch, the less time you lose. Also, with the WRC cars I think it's hard not to floor it, because of the responsiveness of the engines and short, short gearing.
Well, I could see why he did it. Obviously, the faster you get out of the ditch, the less time you lose. Also, with the WRC cars I think it's hard not to floor it, because of the responsiveness of the engines and short, short gearing.
| sb427f-car | 08-23-2006 07:23 PM |
[QUOTE=psg]Maybe late-07 (last two rallies or so) will yield a new SWRT car based on the shortened-Legacy platform. I can't imagine them starting a brand-new car even at mid-season, considering the new Impreza (or whatever it's called) won't be revealed for quite some time.[/QUOTE]
Where can I read the rumors about this stuff on this board or else where?? TIA!
Where can I read the rumors about this stuff on this board or else where?? TIA!
| Hondo88 | 08-23-2006 09:53 PM |
Go Marcus!
I don't know what it is, but I find him funny as hell.
From a interview on WRC.com:
[QUOTE][I]WRC.com[/I] - What three people would you invite to a dinner party at your house, and why?
[I]Marcus[/I] - Jennifer Anniston - I don't need anybody else[/QUOTE]
I don't know what it is, but I find him funny as hell.
From a interview on WRC.com:
[QUOTE][I]WRC.com[/I] - What three people would you invite to a dinner party at your house, and why?
[I]Marcus[/I] - Jennifer Anniston - I don't need anybody else[/QUOTE]
| psg | 08-23-2006 10:04 PM |
[QUOTE=sb427f-car]Where can I read the rumors about this stuff on this board or else where?? TIA![/QUOTE]
I wouldn't know. I'm just putting together the fact that there will be a new Impreza (or whatever it's going to be called) out for MY08, which will be based off a shortened Legacy platform, and that rally teams traditionally debut new cars during the latter stages of the year, should they not be in the hunt for a driver's or constructor's champioship in the last events.
We might see some spy shots of an '08 WRC mule this upcoming winter and/or next year's midseason summer break. The 08 STI is slated to go on sale in January 08 at last recollection, with the base model to precede that by a few months. If I were a betting man, I think we may see a debut at the 2007 Rally Japan (Oct 26-28, 2007).
I wouldn't know. I'm just putting together the fact that there will be a new Impreza (or whatever it's going to be called) out for MY08, which will be based off a shortened Legacy platform, and that rally teams traditionally debut new cars during the latter stages of the year, should they not be in the hunt for a driver's or constructor's champioship in the last events.
We might see some spy shots of an '08 WRC mule this upcoming winter and/or next year's midseason summer break. The 08 STI is slated to go on sale in January 08 at last recollection, with the base model to precede that by a few months. If I were a betting man, I think we may see a debut at the 2007 Rally Japan (Oct 26-28, 2007).
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