masiocinterior: Recent AutoX accident? details? part 1

skuttledude

12-05-2005 08:24 PM

Recent AutoX accident? details?
�

Hopefully I'm not opening up a can of worms here:

Anyone know the details of what accident happened at a SCCA AutoX?
SCCA Forum/: [url]http://sccaforums.com/forums/167002/ShowPost.aspx[/url]

I'm mainly interested because I firmly believe that we can all learn from other clubs and make our own club safer as an ongoing mission.

edit: if someone does have details of the incident, please respect people's rights and DO NOT make public the names (or Car, or car #'s etc..) of those involved.

ChrisW

12-05-2005 08:59 PM

[QUOTE=Davis K Powers]

I'm mainly interested because I firmly believe that we can all learn from other clubs and make our own club safer as an ongoing mission.[/QUOTE]

not a bad idea, but at least we should let the SCCA and their insurance carriers do their investigation into the matter before the incident becomes fodder for the internet forums...

REX8	12-05-2005 09:24 PM

[QUOTE=ChrisW]not a bad idea, but at least we should let the SCCA and their insurance carriers do their investigation into the matter before the incident becomes fodder for the internet forums...[/QUOTE]

Don't see how an open discussion on a forum will affect any investigation...

Bump for details...

Protege Menace

12-05-2005 10:08 PM

wasnt there something like this before? on this forum? they were deleting his posts about an accident and stuff?

skuttledude

12-05-2005 10:20 PM

[QUOTE=Protege Menace]wasnt there something like this before? on this forum? they were deleting his posts about an accident and stuff?[/QUOTE]
this is an entirely new accident that just happened this past weekend I believe.
I have no idea where or what club is involved.

b

WRXedUSA

12-05-2005 10:28 PM

[QUOTE=ChrisW]not a bad idea, but at least we should let the SCCA and their insurance carriers do their investigation into the matter before the incident becomes fodder for the internet forums...[/QUOTE]
I do agree, but often auotX incidents often get swept under the rug (for good reasons or not) quite often. Many example right here in "Motorsports".

Might be good to keep people honest if the opportunity arises.

adhowe70

12-05-2005 10:35 PM

They're "swept under the rug" because SCCA has a prohibition on participants discussing the matter in public. Members may be punished for doing so under the rules and bylaws of the club.

National Solo rules (not just Solo2, general solo... page 5)

"In the event of an accident / incident during an event... no discussion of the accident shall be carried on with outside parties (except law enforcement authorities) without prior authorization by SCCA."

Andy H.

zoomfactor

12-05-2005 10:38 PM

Does anyone have an outside news link to the story? City, state?

My google sleuthing skills aren't turning up too much...

ewright

12-05-2005 10:53 PM

Id be interested in the facts of the matter so a repeat of the incident can be avoided.

ernie

REX8	12-05-2005 11:06 PM

joey1313

12-05-2005 11:10 PM

I also am curious as to what happened. Maybe a mistake was made and if we knew something about what happened the mistake would not be repeated.

RS_Racer

12-05-2005 11:19 PM

[QUOTE=joey1313]I also am curious as to what happened. Maybe a mistake was made and if we knew something about what happened the mistake would not be repeated.[/QUOTE]

I can understand why the post was removed. Thanks to the internet, news like this spreads like crazy and before long it would be being discussed on every racing messageboard, by people that were not there to witness it. Like somebody else said, that would only lead to speculation, accusations, etc. IMHO, the SCCA should handle whatever happened by letting club safety stewards know about it, so they can figure out how to prevent it in the future. I'm sure the SCCA will release some news once all the facts are known. Some third party has no right to post info on a message forum, IMHO of course.

adhowe70

12-05-2005 11:23 PM

[QUOTE=REX8]I smell First Amendment...[/QUOTE]
SCCA is a private club. Members are subject to the rules and bylaws of the club. Period. They agreed to abide by them when they signed their membership card.

Punishment for violation of club rules and bylaws can include revokation of rights of membership and exlusion from club activities. That is the extent of the club's powers. Think of it like violating your employer's policies. They can fire you, can't they? Well SCCA can expel you.

Your first amendment argument can piss off.

kiefer

12-05-2005 11:43 PM

[QUOTE=adhowe70]SCCA is a private club. Members are subject to the rules and bylaws of the club. Period. They agreed to abide by them when they signed their membership card.

Punishment for violation of club rules and bylaws can include revokation of rights of membership and exlusion from club activities. That is the extent of the club's powers. Think of it like violating your employer's policies. They can fire you, can't they? Well SCCA can expel you.

Your first amendment argument can piss off.[/QUOTE]
I agree that the SCCA should have the right to kick out anyone that they want from their club, but this is America, home of the lawyer. I guarantee that if someone got expelled from the SCCA for discussing an accident under the premise of spreading the knowledge to other people in an attempt to prevent this from happening again, the expulsion wouldn't hold up in court. I'm not saying that I don't think it SHOULD, but I have a strong feeling that it wouldn't.

Butt Dyno

12-05-2005 11:44 PM

[url]http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html[/url]
[quote]Amendment I

[color=red][size=6]Congress[/size][/color] shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.[/quote]

gregr01

12-05-2005 11:50 PM

culturedetox

12-05-2005 11:52 PM

I just want to know what happened. can they disclose any details and still protect the parties involved? I just dont like the vibe of sweeping it away from any public discourse.

ewright

12-05-2005 11:53 PM

The original post mentioned someone being seriously injured, I hope they are alright. Its always sad to see a fellow enthusiast getting hurt doing what we enjoy.

Ernie

WRXedUSA

12-06-2005 12:06 AM

remowgn

12-06-2005 12:41 AM

Did some sleuthing....

[url]http://www.azsolo2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3882[/url]

They're pretty tight-lipped too. I'll see if I can find anything else.

1. Here's the event: [url]http://www.azsolo2.com/details/event20051203.htm[/url]

adhowe70

12-06-2005 01:06 AM

I would encourage SCCA members to discuss the incident amongst themselves. This is how SCCA has chosen to deal with the issue. We had a physical injury incident recently in my region. Its the only one I've ever seen. If you want to discuss it with me, PM me. I'll be glad to discuss the circumstances.

I asked a friend in AZ region about the incident via email. If I hear back from him, I will share appropriate information (no names, just bland descriptions) with SCCA members only. This is our club's way of dealing with incidents and, though I may personally disagree, I will abide by it.

Regarding the applicability of the quoted rule to all participants, I agree the context makes the rule apply only to SSS's. However, since the SSS is the person on site that is charged with recording all of the pertinent data it would seem logical that if the SSS is prohibited from discussing the incident all others would be as well. They are (generally speaking) less informed about the incident than the SSS. Other participants discussion the incident would seem even less likely to give factual information or help the club's image. At least that's my interpretation and based on the info included in the AZ region forum linked above it appears to be the opinion of the national office.

ewright

12-06-2005 01:11 AM

adhowe70,

although I just joined the SCCA, I would think that it would be a good idea to share the information with people who are very active within the motorsports community. for example, I spend a lot of time at BMW CCA autocrosses and perhaps the information from this incident would be of benefit at our next autocross and could save someone from a serious injury. I think that this is a very compelling reason for all motorosports organizations to actively disemminate information among themselves and their members about incidents and the causes of these incidents. just my humble 2 cents

ernie:)

KC	12-06-2005 07:50 AM

[QUOTE=adhowe70]They're "swept under the rug" because SCCA has a prohibition on participants discussing the matter in public. Members may be punished for doing so under the rules and bylaws of the club.

National Solo rules (not just Solo2, general solo... page 5)

Andy H.[/QUOTE]

[B][Size=5]False.[/Size][/B] They do not have a prohibition on particpants, discussing events. They have a prohibition on the SSS discussing matters.

Andy.... If the SCCA is going to hide behind rules... then the ones they are using to silence things over the club as a whoile need to be documented.

Let's quote the appropriate rules in their entirety, not little snippets...

Pages 4-5 2005 Solo-II Rule Book:
[QUOTE][B]4. SOLO SAFETY STEWARD PROGRAM[/B]

4.2 Duties
The primary duties of the SSS shall concern the safety of participants and non-participants. This includes course security, which is defined as maintaining control over non-participant access to the course. Course layout relative to driver and worker safety is also a concern of the SSS. [B]Solo Safety Stewards[/B] are responsible to their Divisional Solo Safety Steward as follows:

D. In the event of an accident/incident during an event, notify all SCCA officials and the Club�s insurance carrier as indicated in the Solo Procedures Manual and the Accident/incident report form. A preliminary report shall be mailed within seven days and a more complete report mailed within a reasonable time thereafter. The Safety Steward shall respond to all questions from SCCA officials assigned to investigate the accident/ incident. However, no discussion on the accident shall be carried on with outside parties (except law enforcement authorities) without authorization by SCCA. In any discussion, only statement of fact, rather than opinion, should be offered. Mail all completed reports to the appropriate SCCA and/or insurance carrier offices.[/QUOTE]

That rule people are quoting are for Solo Safety Stewards since they are the ones responsible for the safety of an event. I can understand the club wanting to keep things on the down low, to protect those injured from wild speculation,, and to limit those from losing sites across the country (ie: this post: [url]http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/167225/ShowPost.aspx#167225[/url] which I am in full agreement with).

However, I am of the incination a discussion can occur without names (persons or club names). The club has no authority to tell non-safety stewards they cannot talk about it. To suggest that is absurd. Safety stewards cannot talk about it becuase in the case of litigation, if it ever comes to that, they will be called upon to tell their side of the story in support of the club as to how safe the event was... no?

--kC

solo-x

12-06-2005 07:59 AM

let it be. accidents are just that. sometimes they can't be avoided. if there was a problem with procedure, scca national will address it. insurance companies have been known to cancel policies based on crap said on the internet. do YOU want to be party to having someone's much needed and valid insurance claim denied? i don't. autocross sites have been lost because of crap said on the internet. do YOU want to be party to a region loosing an event site? i don't.

nate - hates internet rubbernecking as much as he hates real world rubbernecking

Jsortor

12-06-2005 08:46 AM

Since everybody claims to just want to know about the incident in order to learn from it, I can tell you all that the only thing to learn from the incident in AZ is that when you are on foot in a hot area of the venue (course, grid, timing area) you must always be aware of your surroundings, ALWAYS. Even when courses and events are done exactly by the book, safety wise, there is a chance for that random freak incident to occur.

joey1313

12-06-2005 09:02 AM

[QUOTE=Jsortor]Since everybody claims to just want to know about the incident in order to learn from it, I can tell you all that the only thing to learn from the incident in AZ is that when you are on foot in a hot area of the venue (course, grid, timing area) you must always be aware of your surroundings, ALWAYS. Even when courses and events are done exactly by the book, safety wise, there is a chance for that random freak incident to occur.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. I know sometimes me and some of friends get a little too relaxed while working a course and pay more attention to car #s and cones than to the what the cars on course are doing. Alot of us think, "Its an autox, no need to really worry. Autoxs are safe and nobody ever gets hurt." Sometimes it takes a horrible event to wake some of us up. I know next time I am at an event, i'll really try to be more alert.

REX8	12-06-2005 11:32 AM

[QUOTE=adhowe70]SCCA is a private club. Members are subject to the rules and bylaws of the club. Period. They agreed to abide by them when they signed their membership card.

Punishment for violation of club rules and bylaws can include revokation of rights of membership and exlusion from club activities. That is the extent of the club's powers. Think of it like violating your employer's policies. They can fire you, can't they? Well SCCA can expel you.

Your first amendment argument can piss off.[/QUOTE]

There had to be a non-member who heard about it, who can post about it, and not be subject to a violation of club rules.

And your bright line on people being subject to the clubs laws isn't as strong as you think. In fact, a judge would most likely chew up that little membership card agreement so fast your head would spin... :lol:

Word to the wise: Even in a private organization such as the SCCA, when it comes to events that happen in an open public place, the Court is not so willing to agree that you've legally signed away your first amendment rights...

You can piss off your 1st amendment rights all you want, I happen to like mine though...

REX8	12-06-2005 11:34 AM

[QUOTE=kiefer]I agree that the SCCA should have the right to kick out anyone that they want from their club, but this is America, home of the lawyer. I guarantee that if someone got expelled from the SCCA for discussing an accident under the premise of spreading the knowledge to other people in an attempt to prevent this from happening again, the expulsion wouldn't hold up in court. I'm not saying that I don't think it SHOULD, but I have a strong feeling that it wouldn't.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, he is putting way to much faith in SCCA rules. Not saying I would violate them, I'm just saying that I'm about 95% sure it would not hold up in court....

This was an event held in a public area, in plain cite. This was not anything said during a closed door meeting of anything.

MrDestructo

12-06-2005 11:45 AM

[QUOTE=gregr01]It is my interpretation of the above quoted rule that this applies to the SSS, not [i]all[/i] participants generally.

The incident occurred not during an autox, per se, but during the "[url="http://www.azsolo2.com/details/event20051203.htm"]AZ Region 2005 Fall Driver's School[/url]."

I was not at the school, and little mention of the incident was made at the following day's autox.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't there either, and I was told not to say anything about it (trust me, this is official SCCA policy and not necessarily the wishes of the AZ club). Greg is correct though, it wasn't during an official event.

you should be able to gather something about what happened from Sortor's post below.

Everyone be careful out there.

adhowe70

12-06-2005 11:46 AM

[QUOTE=KC][B][Size=5]False.[/Size][/B] They do not have a prohibition on particpants, discussing events. They have a prohibition on the SSS discussing matters.
--kC[/QUOTE]
KC,

I agree with your analysis of the letter of the rule, but I believe the intent of the rule is clear based on SCCA national office response to AZ region. They do not wish to have the matter discussed publicly without national office approval. The SSS is the most informed person regarding the details of the accident. If the SSS is prohibited, it would logically follow that the rest of the club should be prohibited. That said, I don't agree with the implied intent of the rule and the request made by the national office.

And based on my own region's experience, I'll concur with Josh. If in a hot area, always be aware of your surroundings. Ish happens.

Andy

joey1313

12-06-2005 11:51 AM

What is the point of debating constitutional law here? The point is to learn from someone elses mistake/s!!! JSorter told us what we needed to know. Stay Alert when at an event. I really don't need details to know what he is talking about. We've all seen occasions(if you go to enough events) when someone is not alert enough to what is going on around them. The lesson to be learned is not if a judge would throw out the scca membership rules.

cowapult

12-06-2005 12:14 PM

[QUOTE=REX8]There had to be a non-member who heard about it, who can post about it, and not be subject to a violation of club rules.

And your bright line on people being subject to the clubs laws isn't as strong as you think. In fact, a judge would most likely chew up that little membership card agreement so fast your head would spin... :lol:

Word to the wise: Even in a private organization such as the SCCA, when it comes to events that happen in an open public place, the Court is not so willing to agree that you've legally signed away your first amendment rights...

You can piss off your 1st amendment rights all you want, I happen to like mine though...[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes: You're not getting what people are saying. No one is saying that you don't have the constitutional right to talk about it.

But it's moot anyway, and it's a threadjack.

NeoteriX

12-06-2005 02:28 PM

[QUOTE=REX8]I smell First Amendment...[/QUOTE]
I haven't read the thread, except for this... AFAIK, I just wanted to point out that the 1st Amendment freedom only applies to the government. Private parties can censor their private things as much as they want.

Butt Dyno

12-06-2005 02:32 PM

WgnWheel

12-06-2005 03:34 PM

Yes it happened at our regions drivers school, not an actual event. it was tragic, it was an accident and all parties involved are doing ok. it did involve a car on course and a person standing in a "hot zone". i wasnt there, but im a region member and knew one of the involved(not closely). information will be given when scca is done the investigation.

TimStevens

12-06-2005 04:25 PM

[QUOTE=WgnWheel]Yes it happened at our regions drivers school, not an actual event. it was tragic, it was an accident and all parties involved are doing ok. it did involve a car on course and a person standing in a "hot zone". i wasnt there, but im a region member and knew one of the involved(not closely). information will be given when scca is done the investigation.[/QUOTE]

That could be 5 years from now...

GRMPer

12-06-2005 05:05 PM

Not to be overly blunt, but "Tragic" and "All parties involved are doing ok" seems contradictory. I hope the former is an overstatement.

Per

[QUOTE=WgnWheel]Yes it happened at our regions drivers school, not an actual event. it was tragic, it was an accident and all parties involved are doing ok. it did involve a car on course and a person standing in a "hot zone". i wasnt there, but im a region member and knew one of the involved(not closely). information will be given when scca is done the investigation.[/QUOTE]

t3hWIT

12-06-2005 05:18 PM

[QUOTE=kiefer] but this is America, home of the lawyer.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

remowgn

12-06-2005 08:44 PM

[full story censored]

You can find it in here. [url]http://www.az240sx.org/forums/[/url]

wrx2.0 555

12-06-2005 08:49 PM

[QUOTE=Davis K Powers]Hopefully I'm not opening up a can of worms here:

[/QUOTE]

At least this part has been answered.... :lol: :lol:

adhowe70

12-06-2005 09:19 PM

remowgn- That was not appropriate to post. Sorry.

RS_Racer

12-06-2005 09:40 PM

[QUOTE=solo-x]let it be. accidents are just that. sometimes they can't be avoided. if there was a problem with procedure, scca national will address it. insurance companies have been known to cancel policies based on crap said on the internet. do YOU want to be party to having someone's much needed and valid insurance claim denied? i don't. autocross sites have been lost because of crap said on the internet. do YOU want to be party to a region loosing an event site? i don't.

nate - hates internet rubbernecking as much as he hates real world rubbernecking[/QUOTE]

What he said !

RS_Racer

12-06-2005 09:43 PM

Yo, remowgn, did you read the last part of that ?!??!? It stated...

"PS. Keep in mind that we're not sure if there will be any insurance problems so we should probably not discuss the accident itself in an open forum."

Thanks for helping further spread this around the internet.

Jon Bogert

12-06-2005 10:06 PM

Whenever there's an accident in amateur motorsports, the benefits of a full and open accounting of the events FAR outweighs any other interests. The benefits of a post-mortem go farther than just analyzing procedures. Accidents like this are a part of amateur motorsports, and pretending they're not or sweeping them under the rug does no service to current and future participants.

The privacy of the victim/family? Not nearly as important as bringing the community together to help them in any and every way possible. You want to help the kid that was hit, send him a check, or some flowers, or visit him in the hospital. Don't ignore the accident and pretend like nothing happened 'til Pete Lyons says the coast is clear.

Sorry SCCA, you'll get sued anyway--that's what your insurance is for. And anyone ever involved with the rally program has precious little sympathy for the SCCA's insurance dept.

REX8	12-06-2005 10:08 PM

[QUOTE=cowapult]:rolleyes: You're not getting what people are saying. No one is saying that you don't have the constitutional right to talk about it.

But it's moot anyway, and it's a threadjack.[/QUOTE]

You obviously didn't read the first page...

Horrible tragedy though. My thoughs are with him and his family.

REX8	12-06-2005 10:10 PM

[QUOTE=NeoteriX]I haven't read the thread, except for this... AFAIK, I just wanted to point out that the 1st Amendment freedom only applies to the government. Private parties can censor their private things as much as they want.[/QUOTE]

Oh come on, you're honestly trying to tell me that the SCCA is not Congress??? :lol:

Then again, if the SCCA ever uses any state or federal property, (as I'm sure some of the parking lots are on). Then you could bring it a la 14th Amend. But anyway, no reason for a Constitutional Law discussion here...

Lets hope this guy is ok, or as healthy as possible.

TimStevens

12-07-2005 07:30 AM

[QUOTE=remowgn][full story censored]

You can find it in here. [url]http://www.az240sx.org/forums/[/url][/QUOTE]

Direct link:
[url]http://www.az240sx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=21109[/url]

dwx	12-07-2005 07:43 AM

Well all I can say to those injured is make a speedy recovery and keep your spirits up. My cousin had pretty much the same thing happen about a year ago in a car accident and he is back playing varsity football this year.

As for the accident itself, anything can happen and it sounds like it did. I really wouldn't doubt a lawsuit coming. There are plenty of eye witnesses and as long as those who are directly involved aren't talking about it on internet forums, I don't see how it hurts anything... I don't think anyone is really trying to place blame, unfortunate things happen.

solo-x

12-07-2005 08:29 AM

the difference between full disclosure and posts on an internet forum is that threads like this tend to degenerate to speculation, accusation, and general misinformation. that does NOTHING to help anybody involved. face it, you people want to know what happened out of morbid curiousity. that is bull ****. drop it. the information YOU need to know will be released by the proper authorities when the time comes. look for an article in Sportscar or a formal post by one of the informed parties. stop talking about black helicopters and how the scca should dessiminate all information since they'll probably get sued anyway. none of that does a damn thing to educate or any of the other crap you use to defend yourselves.

ever play that game "Gossip" when you were a kid. someone tells a short story to someone else. they tell it to another person, then that person someone else. on and on it goes until 'everyone' has heard the story. by that time, the story has morphed into some abomination of the original story with all the "facts" totally screwed up. that's what happens on the web with things of this nature. my friend's, sister's, boyfriend's, uncle's, daughter's friend who knows Kevin Bacon said he saw it and that God's hand flipped the car on it's roof!!! yeah, it's an exageration, but the point remains.

nate

rankink

12-07-2005 09:24 AM

[QUOTE=TimStevens]Direct link:
[url]http://www.az240sx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=21109[/url][/QUOTE]

Wow, that is a tragic thing to happen at a event. Just another reminder how you have to pay attention and remain very aware of the surroundings at any autocross event.

MrDestructo

12-07-2005 09:45 AM

just so all of you know that people are not trying to cover this up, our regional director in AZ has made and official statement about the incident:

[url="http://www.azsolo2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3907"]http://www.azsolo2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3907[/url]

Just so you know, I think all this is a much more appropriate response than the one on az240sx.com, and I hope this person consulted Richard and his family before giving out that much detail.

edit: in fact, reading Tage's post on azsolo2.com more carefully, I really think the other post on az240sx.com was way out of line.

zoomfactor

12-07-2005 10:12 AM

In this day and age it is nearly impossible to prevent the rapid flow of information, misinformation, rumor, and speculation via the internet.

<EDIT - thanks MrDestructo...my post was a little slow...>

Many people participate in auto-x out of the perception that it is substantially safer than other motorsports. This type of an incident should cause everyone to look at their safety procedures. ANY incident may have implications for EVERYONE that participates in auto-x.

My best wishes for anyone involved...

JD <---doesn't rubber neck

WRXedUSA

12-07-2005 10:37 AM

[QUOTE=solo-x] the difference between full disclosure and posts on an internet forum is that threads like this tend to degenerate to speculation, accusation, and general misinformation. [/quote]
True.
[QUOTE=solo-x]
face it, you people want to know what happened out of morbid curiousity. that is bull ****. drop it.
[/quote]
I was waiting for this arguement, and not the case at all. This isnt the Dale Earnhardt investigation here.
[QUOTE=solo-x]
the information YOU need to know will be released by the proper authorities when the time comes. [/quote]
Right. Reading Sportscar, you would be under the impression that there are NO serious errors that happin in SCCA activites. I.E. the Rallycross Natl Championship article. What was reported in the article and what actually happened was like night/day.

[QUOTE=solo-x]
look for an article in Sportscar or a formal post by one of the informed parties. [/quote]

Post? Like in a forum? That kinda negates the first quoted statement.

I'm not a headhunter here, but I'd like to learn from stuff like this to I can practice and exhibit a more sound sense of safety at my local events.

ChrisW

12-07-2005 10:59 AM

[QUOTE=REX8]Don't see how an open discussion on a forum will affect any investigation...

Bump for details...[/QUOTE]

Search on CornPicker's little autox incident. Lot of crap got flown around before the SCCA invesitgation was completed.

l

KC	12-07-2005 11:09 AM

[QUOTE=ChrisW]Search on CornPicker's little autox incident. Lot of crap got flown around before the SCCA invesitgation was completed.

l[/QUOTE]
Cornpicker was the party in the accident. *He* was posting 1st party account... and yes... *he* was ripped to shreds. *He* was the party responsible... not a 3rd person account from my best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw the accident happen.

--kC

adhowe70

12-07-2005 12:58 PM

Tage is aware of the discussion on the AZ240 forum. I'm not sure he endorses it, but he hasn't demanded its removal either. IMO, posting of the personal information was not appropriate. There are more private ways to get the information out to those who are close to the parties involved.

10th Warrior

12-07-2005 01:02 PM

for all the wannabe lawyers on here, i would point out that, not only is it in bad taste to have such a lust for the gory details, but a person's medical information is very much private. Unless you are that person, that person's immediate family, or directly involved with the medical care of that person, federal law says you shouldn't know it, and definitely shouldn't go looking for it/posting it on the internet without that person's consent.

as for the details of what caused the accident, I'm quite sure it will be vetted and the results of the inquiry sent to the SSSs. They do talk to each other, you know ;) If there is something that could be changed in the rules to help prevent a similar situation in the future, I'm sure it will be found in the rulebook.

Jon Bogert

12-07-2005 01:38 PM

A good wannabe lawyer would read up before posting. ;) HIPAA prohibits the physician or treatment facility from [i]releasing[/i] that information to anyone without consent. It in no way prohibits the usual collection of internet wankers chatting it up and discussing what they heard.

AUTOwrXER

12-07-2005 01:48 PM

[QUOTE=MrDestructo]just so all of you know that people are not trying to cover this up, our regional director in AZ has made and official statement about the incident:

[url="http://www.azsolo2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3907"]http://www.azsolo2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3907[/url]

Just so you know, I think all this is a much more appropriate response than the one on az240sx.com, and I hope this person consulted Richard and his family before giving out that much detail.

edit: in fact, reading Tage's post on azsolo2.com more carefully, I really think the other post on az240sx.com was way out of line.[/QUOTE]

IMO That's good work by Tage. I'm sure this has put Solo as a much larger priority in his life than anyone bargains for when they take the chairperson position. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with any serious injuries while I was chairperson.

KC	12-07-2005 01:51 PM

[QUOTE=10th Warrior]for all the wannabe lawyers on here, i would point out that, not only is it in bad taste to have such a lust for the gory details, but a person's medical information is very much private. Unless you are that person, that person's immediate family, or directly involved with the medical care of that person, federal law says you shouldn't know it, and definitely shouldn't go looking for it/posting it on the internet without that person's consent.[/QUOTE]

You mean we're all in trouble for knowing about injured football players? Yikes!

There's a difference between wanting to know the 'gory' details (as they were a little too much even for me to stomach) and wanting to know a whole bunch of other things... was it someone I knew, someone I raced against in the past, are they at least alive? Being what makes us human, and we all desire information for everyones own reasons. Ambulance chasing isn't one of them things that I am interested in.

[QUOTE]It in no way prohibits the usual collection of internet wankers chatting it up and discussing what they heard.[/QUOTE] I look at a forum as if there's a room.... and that room is full of people having beers talking about things that may or may not ineterest them (threads). People talk about events that have transpired and have opinons on them.. whether or not it was 1st hand expereince... again... it's human nature, and IMHO, quite innocuous in a forum setting such as this. Can it get heated and out of control? Yep... it can (citing cornpicker). But when someone is phisically injured, there's a different side to people that want to know 'how they can help.' This forum is a good example of that. Think of the guy that got sandwiched between the semis.. the Lovell/Freeman decals, other people that have come and gone. The good people in this community do things to help people and their families. It's not all that bad.. that are many that are true in the want to help in any way they can, if need be.

--kC

masiocinterior

Thứ Ba, 29 tháng 11, 2016

Recent AutoX accident? details? part 1

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