| jpsimon | 01-29-2005 07:06 PM |
how is this bell helmet?
�
�
ok im sick of borrowing my friends helmet when i autocross...
i dont wanna spend too much on a helmet because ill pretty much only be doing autocross.. so i dont need anything super amazing.. but i do want something that looks pretty nice etc...
so i found the bell rs-5, its only 217 dollars
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/soloracerdotcom_1824_161944[/img]
any comments on this helmet?
i dont wanna spend too much on a helmet because ill pretty much only be doing autocross.. so i dont need anything super amazing.. but i do want something that looks pretty nice etc...
so i found the bell rs-5, its only 217 dollars
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/soloracerdotcom_1824_161944[/img]
any comments on this helmet?
| AlpineFD | 01-29-2005 08:52 PM |
i this SA certified? For budget helmets, GForce has good deals.
[url]www.racerwholesale.com[/url]
[url]www.racerwholesale.com[/url]
| KC | 01-29-2005 09:37 PM |
Auto-x only needs M-Rated. HJC Open faced are ~$100 at retail outlets and you can find them less than that online.
My personal preference is open faced because you can see everything, and there's no visor (not needed in an enclosed car) with an excellent field of view, and generally lighter.
If you *think* you might do some track days, they usually require SAs.. but if you're not going to this year, just get an openfaced inexpensive one and get an SA next year when the 2005 Snell helmets come out... since they only come out every 5 years and you'll have 10-15 years of use vs 5-10 years with the 2000 Snell.
--kC
My personal preference is open faced because you can see everything, and there's no visor (not needed in an enclosed car) with an excellent field of view, and generally lighter.
If you *think* you might do some track days, they usually require SAs.. but if you're not going to this year, just get an openfaced inexpensive one and get an SA next year when the 2005 Snell helmets come out... since they only come out every 5 years and you'll have 10-15 years of use vs 5-10 years with the 2000 Snell.
--kC
| jpsimon | 01-29-2005 09:40 PM |
gotcha.. i ordered that one i posted above... is it ok for track days? i may do one or toe track days...
| cooleyjb | 01-29-2005 10:14 PM |
the only question I ask someone beyond the what are you going to use it for would be.
is it comfortable?
is it comfortable?
| KC | 01-30-2005 09:31 AM |
[QUOTE=jpsimon]gotcha.. i ordered that one i posted above... is it ok for track days? i may do one or toe track days...[/QUOTE]
Nope. Most track days require SA. The bell rs-5 is only an M. That's why I was saying, it's fine for just auto-x since it's am M rated helmet and not SA... but if you're going to get an M... get an open faced one....
But there are some that'll let you do a track school with them, just not Solo-I. Check with who you plan on running with.
Nope. Most track days require SA. The bell rs-5 is only an M. That's why I was saying, it's fine for just auto-x since it's am M rated helmet and not SA... but if you're going to get an M... get an open faced one....
But there are some that'll let you do a track school with them, just not Solo-I. Check with who you plan on running with.
| greg donovan | 01-30-2005 10:48 AM |
recently the SCCA announced some research stating that closed face helmets in cars w/airbags active can be a hazard and they are reccomending a open face welmet or disabling the airbags for competition.
it was a addition to the 05 rallyx rules but would imagine autox rules has the same warning in them.
it was a addition to the 05 rallyx rules but would imagine autox rules has the same warning in them.
| jpsimon | 01-30-2005 04:44 PM |
ordered this instead so i can use it at track days:
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/soloracerdotcom_1827_1093930[/img]
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/soloracerdotcom_1827_1093930[/img]
| HoRo1 | 01-30-2005 05:01 PM |
I live in SoCal and use a full-face helmet at the track. A full-face tends to be hot to wear. I would recommend an open-face (cheaper, cooler and although not offering quite as much protection as a full-face - you'll be in a closed car so ...), it tends to be more comfortable.
| jpsimon | 01-30-2005 06:15 PM |
all last summer i wore my friend's full face helmet... i didn't mind the heat at all.. it was fine
| KC | 01-31-2005 08:05 AM |
They're 'still looking into it'. I wouldn't hold your breath for them to make a decision to ban them.
--KC
--KC
| Gernick | 01-31-2005 08:07 AM |
What would make a full face dangerous?
| wrxited | 01-31-2005 08:09 AM |
Quick question, but I thought there was a thread about a couple months ago, where someone said that they might banned full face helmets.........I'm currently looking for a helmet also but I'm not sure on what to get.
| KC | 01-31-2005 08:19 AM |
[QUOTE=Gernick]What would make a full face dangerous?[/QUOTE]
Something about the airbag coming in contact with the chin guard, breaking that, and then it proceeds to fracture the jaw.
I have heard (2nd hand here... haven't read the report) that the report was generated when those that were doing the testing (not SCCA) were trying an airbag in a single seater, open cockpit race car (or there we some produced with airbags). When the steering wheel is much closer to the head in these cases, it caused (or could cause) problems.
I don't know if what I said is 100% accurate, but I don't think the SCCA, when they get around to actually making a decision, is going to ban them.
I woudln't let this little bit, that the SCCA has known since Nov/Dec stand in the way of what it takes for YOU to feel safe in a car going at speed on an auto-x/race track. For an auto-x, the accident rate is so low, that it's only insurance that mandates helmets. Speeds are so low, that I don't believe we even need them.. but that's neither here nor there. :)
Get what you feel safe in.
--kC
Something about the airbag coming in contact with the chin guard, breaking that, and then it proceeds to fracture the jaw.
I have heard (2nd hand here... haven't read the report) that the report was generated when those that were doing the testing (not SCCA) were trying an airbag in a single seater, open cockpit race car (or there we some produced with airbags). When the steering wheel is much closer to the head in these cases, it caused (or could cause) problems.
I don't know if what I said is 100% accurate, but I don't think the SCCA, when they get around to actually making a decision, is going to ban them.
I woudln't let this little bit, that the SCCA has known since Nov/Dec stand in the way of what it takes for YOU to feel safe in a car going at speed on an auto-x/race track. For an auto-x, the accident rate is so low, that it's only insurance that mandates helmets. Speeds are so low, that I don't believe we even need them.. but that's neither here nor there. :)
Get what you feel safe in.
--kC
| greg donovan | 01-31-2005 09:54 AM |
KC,
i was just relaying what is contained in the rallyx rules so he would have more info.
i agree that accident risk is so low for autox but i wouldnt drive like that w/out one. i dont like smacking my head on the window and b pillar.
i dont think they will ban them either but they are reccomending open face in the rules.
i was just relaying what is contained in the rallyx rules so he would have more info.
i agree that accident risk is so low for autox but i wouldnt drive like that w/out one. i dont like smacking my head on the window and b pillar.
i dont think they will ban them either but they are reccomending open face in the rules.
| KC | 01-31-2005 10:13 AM |
Since I hardly ever rally-x, I didn't think rally-x rules apply here to Auto-x & track days.. but ok.. since they mentioned it.
Reading that snippet in the rally-x rules reads just like the announcement that the SCCA produced... looks like they just included it... even reading it says final word will be delt with in an early '05 Fastrack.... which March was just released.
So really... don't hold your breath. :D
--KC
Reading that snippet in the rally-x rules reads just like the announcement that the SCCA produced... looks like they just included it... even reading it says final word will be delt with in an early '05 Fastrack.... which March was just released.
So really... don't hold your breath. :D
--KC
| greg donovan | 01-31-2005 02:29 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Since I hardly ever rally-x, I didn't think rally-x rules apply here to Auto-x & track days.. but ok.. since they mentioned it.
Reading that snippet in the rally-x rules reads just like the announcement that the SCCA produced... looks like they just included it... even reading it says final word will be delt with in an early '05 Fastrack.... which March was just released.
So really... don't hold your breath. :D
--KC[/QUOTE]
i think it is an across the board notice put into the rules for all SCCA solo type events.
Reading that snippet in the rally-x rules reads just like the announcement that the SCCA produced... looks like they just included it... even reading it says final word will be delt with in an early '05 Fastrack.... which March was just released.
So really... don't hold your breath. :D
--KC[/QUOTE]
i think it is an across the board notice put into the rules for all SCCA solo type events.
| greg donovan | 01-31-2005 02:57 PM |
here is the section of the rallyx rules we are talking about:
[QUOTE="'05 national Rallycross rules"]N. It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Service that
the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with
active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a
crash that deploys the airbag. Because of the location of the
steering wheel relative to a driver�s position, the airbag axis is on a
level with the driver�s chin. In a crash with airbag deployment,
contact with the chin area of a full-face helmet can be so powerful
�that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out � (Hubert
Gramling, FIA institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). [B]This applies to vehicle
that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car
Control Clinics, etc.[/B] Therefore, it is highly recommended that fullface
helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems.
Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered
for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="'05 national Rallycross rules"]N. It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Service that
the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with
active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a
crash that deploys the airbag. Because of the location of the
steering wheel relative to a driver�s position, the airbag axis is on a
level with the driver�s chin. In a crash with airbag deployment,
contact with the chin area of a full-face helmet can be so powerful
�that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out � (Hubert
Gramling, FIA institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). [B]This applies to vehicle
that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car
Control Clinics, etc.[/B] Therefore, it is highly recommended that fullface
helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems.
Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered
for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack.[/QUOTE]
| KC | 01-31-2005 03:21 PM |
[QUOTE=greg donovan]i think it is an across the board notice put into the rules for all SCCA solo type events.[/QUOTE]
It has not appeared in the 2005 Solo rules, nor has it appeared in the fastrack yet (like that paragraph states at the bottom).
[QUOTE]Therefore, it is highly recommended that fullface
helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems.
[B]Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered
for 2005, [I]which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack.[/I][/B][/QUOTE]
When this was announced, there was a thread dedicated to this issue... here's my feelings on the subject...
Like I said... I think they (rally people) just cut and pasted it right before it went to publish... it's almost verbatem from the Site when they 1st announced it.
Here's what Doug Gill (Tech Manager for Solo) said on Jan 5:
[QUOTE]Hi, Keith,
No, it's not a dead issue, there is a lot more research to be done. It's just an advisory and it will stay an advisory until more data is collected. The SEB is not in any hurry to make any rule changes concerning helmets.
Tech Services has talked with other safety people and they have concerns, too. There has not been any airbag tests with helmeted occupants, but incidents involving helmeted drivers after airbag deployments have not been good. The number of incidents of airbag deployments in Solo may be low enough that there will not be any rule changes. But that doesn't mean that helmets and airbags are totally safe either.
We are going to be talking more with safety people. They are looking at records for us, too. Afterwards, we'll need to put it together in a comprehensive form and have it reviewed before we'll release it.
Thanks for your concern. Please check with me anytime.
- Doug
[/QUOTE]
Reading this from Doug leads me to beleive.. will there be something said about it? yes. In the near future? Not likely.
Should it stop you from buying a closed face helmet if you feel safer in one, even with an airbag equipped car? No! Like he said... there's still more research to be done.
Because it's in the rally-x rules... this has NO BEARING on Solo-II, nor track, nor any other organization other than SCCA that also does auto-x or track.
It's going to be a big thing if SCCA Bans closed face helmets. Quite honestly, I don't think or believe they will be banned. (The test listed was an open cockpit single driver race car .... F1 car.... that has the steering wheel essentially in front of the driver... and they usually sit just inches away.. as such it was a specail 'test' situation to see what would happen... not an actual production street car. Gramling, developed the airbag safety system in Formula One FYI. That's what this concern is about.... not passenger cars! Hence the need for the SCCA to 'research' it before issuing a publication. IMHO, it's a big hoax/scare propogated through the internet. Becuase his name was attached to it, and it had to do with Racing.. SCCA took notice, and issued an advisory. That's all it is. An advisory.)
Notice this study was done in 1999... you mean to tell me for almost 6 years now they haven't done anything yet and banned them in all clubs in 2000? If it was detrimental, it would have been banned in 2000/2001... much like the HANS device he also worked on... only took a year or two for that to be mandated.
--kC
It has not appeared in the 2005 Solo rules, nor has it appeared in the fastrack yet (like that paragraph states at the bottom).
[QUOTE]Therefore, it is highly recommended that fullface
helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems.
[B]Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered
for 2005, [I]which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack.[/I][/B][/QUOTE]
When this was announced, there was a thread dedicated to this issue... here's my feelings on the subject...
Like I said... I think they (rally people) just cut and pasted it right before it went to publish... it's almost verbatem from the Site when they 1st announced it.
Here's what Doug Gill (Tech Manager for Solo) said on Jan 5:
[QUOTE]Hi, Keith,
No, it's not a dead issue, there is a lot more research to be done. It's just an advisory and it will stay an advisory until more data is collected. The SEB is not in any hurry to make any rule changes concerning helmets.
Tech Services has talked with other safety people and they have concerns, too. There has not been any airbag tests with helmeted occupants, but incidents involving helmeted drivers after airbag deployments have not been good. The number of incidents of airbag deployments in Solo may be low enough that there will not be any rule changes. But that doesn't mean that helmets and airbags are totally safe either.
We are going to be talking more with safety people. They are looking at records for us, too. Afterwards, we'll need to put it together in a comprehensive form and have it reviewed before we'll release it.
Thanks for your concern. Please check with me anytime.
- Doug
[/QUOTE]
Reading this from Doug leads me to beleive.. will there be something said about it? yes. In the near future? Not likely.
Should it stop you from buying a closed face helmet if you feel safer in one, even with an airbag equipped car? No! Like he said... there's still more research to be done.
Because it's in the rally-x rules... this has NO BEARING on Solo-II, nor track, nor any other organization other than SCCA that also does auto-x or track.
It's going to be a big thing if SCCA Bans closed face helmets. Quite honestly, I don't think or believe they will be banned. (The test listed was an open cockpit single driver race car .... F1 car.... that has the steering wheel essentially in front of the driver... and they usually sit just inches away.. as such it was a specail 'test' situation to see what would happen... not an actual production street car. Gramling, developed the airbag safety system in Formula One FYI. That's what this concern is about.... not passenger cars! Hence the need for the SCCA to 'research' it before issuing a publication. IMHO, it's a big hoax/scare propogated through the internet. Becuase his name was attached to it, and it had to do with Racing.. SCCA took notice, and issued an advisory. That's all it is. An advisory.)
Notice this study was done in 1999... you mean to tell me for almost 6 years now they haven't done anything yet and banned them in all clubs in 2000? If it was detrimental, it would have been banned in 2000/2001... much like the HANS device he also worked on... only took a year or two for that to be mandated.
--kC
| greg donovan | 01-31-2005 03:59 PM |
KC, i think you are misunderstanding my point.
i was only pointing out something which i had recently become aware of. i thought it would be usefull information in selecting a helmet. not because closed face could be banned but because there is a potential for injury. granted it is a very slim chance of injury at an auto x.
i was only pointing out something which i had recently become aware of. i thought it would be usefull information in selecting a helmet. not because closed face could be banned but because there is a potential for injury. granted it is a very slim chance of injury at an auto x.
| KC | 01-31-2005 08:11 PM |
[QUOTE=greg donovan]KC, i think you are misunderstanding my point.
i was only pointing out something which i had recently become aware of. i thought it would be usefull information in selecting a helmet. not because closed face could be banned but because there is a potential for injury. granted it is a very slim chance of injury at an auto x.[/QUOTE]
I get your point... trust me on this. You're totally missing mine. ;)
The potential for injury due to an airbag blowing up in the face of a driver, according to the study, was while driving an airbag equipped F1 car. What speeds are they going when they hit something solid? At what speed are you going in a 'stock' street car on an auto-x? Rally-x? even a track day? [I]Not[/I] F1 speeds.
1) Speeds are much slower
2) The airbag is in a totally different position as is the steering wheel in a street car vs. an F1 car.
Ask yourself this... If a full face helmet can protect someones head from a dump on a motorcyle (ANd only M rated at that) coming in contact with something solid (again... slower speeds than in an F1 car) why would an airbag [I]cause[/I] a greater problem for an occupant?
Answer: Not in a street car.
You should not let this come in the way of getting something that you feel SAFE in. IF there was 'potential' for injury, the moment the 1st couple airbags went off on track days with a full face helmet in the 80s and injury occured directly related to an airbag-helmet interaction.... there would have been a warning through the industry and racing community and they would have been outlawed then 15-20 years ago.
Doncha think? :)
Also....
[QUOTE]How seatbelts play a role (in Aribag equipped cars)....
When an accident occurs, a sensor determines whether or not to trigger inflation of the car's airbag. The amount of time the airbag has to fully inflate before the head makes impact is greatly affected by whether or not the car's occupant is wearing a seatbelt.[/QUOTE]
If they're wearing a seatbelt (I'm skipping harnesses here.. because sensors don't think you have a seatbelt) the airbag will inflate slower. Most of the time, a seatbelt will be sufficient in keeping your head off the airbag.. and not by an inch either...so the helmet won't really be in contact with the airbag.
Not wearing a seatbelt.. but a harness? The airbag will degfinitely inflate quicker.. but the volue it takes up will be the same. You think you're going to move forward much again that the helmet will come in contact with the airbag while wearing a harness? ;) Let me know if your helmet will hit. THere's a reason they call airbags supplimental restraint systems... they're made for those that don't wear seatbelts and 'save lives'. ;)
--kC
i was only pointing out something which i had recently become aware of. i thought it would be usefull information in selecting a helmet. not because closed face could be banned but because there is a potential for injury. granted it is a very slim chance of injury at an auto x.[/QUOTE]
I get your point... trust me on this. You're totally missing mine. ;)
The potential for injury due to an airbag blowing up in the face of a driver, according to the study, was while driving an airbag equipped F1 car. What speeds are they going when they hit something solid? At what speed are you going in a 'stock' street car on an auto-x? Rally-x? even a track day? [I]Not[/I] F1 speeds.
1) Speeds are much slower
2) The airbag is in a totally different position as is the steering wheel in a street car vs. an F1 car.
Ask yourself this... If a full face helmet can protect someones head from a dump on a motorcyle (ANd only M rated at that) coming in contact with something solid (again... slower speeds than in an F1 car) why would an airbag [I]cause[/I] a greater problem for an occupant?
Answer: Not in a street car.
You should not let this come in the way of getting something that you feel SAFE in. IF there was 'potential' for injury, the moment the 1st couple airbags went off on track days with a full face helmet in the 80s and injury occured directly related to an airbag-helmet interaction.... there would have been a warning through the industry and racing community and they would have been outlawed then 15-20 years ago.
Doncha think? :)
Also....
[QUOTE]How seatbelts play a role (in Aribag equipped cars)....
When an accident occurs, a sensor determines whether or not to trigger inflation of the car's airbag. The amount of time the airbag has to fully inflate before the head makes impact is greatly affected by whether or not the car's occupant is wearing a seatbelt.[/QUOTE]
If they're wearing a seatbelt (I'm skipping harnesses here.. because sensors don't think you have a seatbelt) the airbag will inflate slower. Most of the time, a seatbelt will be sufficient in keeping your head off the airbag.. and not by an inch either...so the helmet won't really be in contact with the airbag.
Not wearing a seatbelt.. but a harness? The airbag will degfinitely inflate quicker.. but the volue it takes up will be the same. You think you're going to move forward much again that the helmet will come in contact with the airbag while wearing a harness? ;) Let me know if your helmet will hit. THere's a reason they call airbags supplimental restraint systems... they're made for those that don't wear seatbelts and 'save lives'. ;)
--kC
| greg donovan | 01-31-2005 10:29 PM |
this morning:
greg over here........................................................KC over here
this evening:
..................................greg here, kc here..................................
gotcha.
greg over here........................................................KC over here
this evening:
..................................greg here, kc here..................................
gotcha.
| jpsimon | 01-31-2005 10:47 PM |
this is all interesting info!
my helmet arives on thursday!!!!! ill take pics wearing the helmet, playing gt3
my helmet arives on thursday!!!!! ill take pics wearing the helmet, playing gt3
| KC | 02-01-2005 07:38 AM |
[QUOTE=jpsimon]this is all interesting info!
my helmet arives on thursday!!!!! ill take pics wearing the helmet, playing gt3[/QUOTE]
NO! Very dangerous! How will you ingest beer and Cheetoes with a full face helmet? If you would have said you were going to do that, I would have just said "Sure, get an open faced!"
YYMV. ;)
--kC
my helmet arives on thursday!!!!! ill take pics wearing the helmet, playing gt3[/QUOTE]
NO! Very dangerous! How will you ingest beer and Cheetoes with a full face helmet? If you would have said you were going to do that, I would have just said "Sure, get an open faced!"
YYMV. ;)
--kC
| LaterApex | 02-01-2005 08:17 AM |
My view is that the closed face helmet is the best all-around investment.
Usually, you can disable the airbag system by pulling a fuse or a plug. That prevents the danger of face shield shattering. I've done that in my car.
If you decide to take the car to the race track, you have the added protection from track rubber coming through the side window in tight turns. That stuff smarts when it hit's you on the cheek; nevermind the eye.
Usually, you can disable the airbag system by pulling a fuse or a plug. That prevents the danger of face shield shattering. I've done that in my car.
If you decide to take the car to the race track, you have the added protection from track rubber coming through the side window in tight turns. That stuff smarts when it hit's you on the cheek; nevermind the eye.
| 1984 | 02-02-2005 02:56 AM |
[QUOTE=jpsimon]my helmet arives on thursday!!!!! ill take pics wearing the helmet, playing gt3[/QUOTE]
haha...since getting my helmet a couple of months ago, that's all I've used it for so far. I wanted a helmet where I could get plenty of air without having to mess with opening/closing a shield, but I still wanted a fullface helment. I compromised and went with this:
[IMG]http://store1.yimg.com/I/soloracerdotcom_1826_1958898[/IMG]
It might not be the coolest looking helmet, but it's comfy. You should like your new helmet :)
haha...since getting my helmet a couple of months ago, that's all I've used it for so far. I wanted a helmet where I could get plenty of air without having to mess with opening/closing a shield, but I still wanted a fullface helment. I compromised and went with this:
[IMG]http://store1.yimg.com/I/soloracerdotcom_1826_1958898[/IMG]
It might not be the coolest looking helmet, but it's comfy. You should like your new helmet :)
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