| Don-HRD | 03-14-2007 01:47 AM |
The Costs of doing business....
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So we have begun the SWC cars, and let me tell you, there is a lot of STUFF you need to build a car from absolute scratch. As of right now we have no major sponsors, and no sponsorship deals have been finalized, so the entire effort is being funded by HRD-Racing. Below is just a small sample of the bits we are using, where we get them, and in some cases the whys and wherefores of thier selection, with a few small plugs for deserving people before any sponsor stuff gets in the way.
Engine: EJ20, turbocharged 2.0 litre[LIST][*]AEM EMS. We are using the AEM rather than MOTEC, because as mentioned before, we sell AEM here and not MOTEC.[*]Some form of aluminum radiator, proabaly griffin or fluidyne[*]Griffin Intercooler core, chosen because we have to runa stock-dimension TMIC and the Griffin core is much more efficient[*]Zero/Sports Air splitter- Chosen because we like Zero/Sports stuff:)[*]HRD exhuast- we build all our own exhaust here[*]HRD fuel system- we do that too[/LIST]Transmission:[LIST][*]Jack-built 5-speed WRX transmission- Thanks to my good friend Jack McGee, who is IMHO one of the best transmission builders out there.[*]SCCA legal dog-engagement gearset[*]MSI shifter[*]lightweight flywheel and clutch- No decisions on clutches yet, but probably looking at a custom flywheel and Tilton 2 or 3 disc unit[/LIST]Suspension:[LIST][*]DMS dampers[*]MSI subframes[*]MSI suspension links[*]MSI STI knuckles and hubs allowing us to change wheel bearings without pulling the effin axles.[/LIST]Brakes:[LIST][*]Wilwood Calipers- I might actually use AP calipers, but for now Wilwood is the answer[*]Full-floating rotors- probably PFC or Coleman[*]Tilton Dual master cylinder w/Bias[/LIST]Chassis:[LIST][*]HRD designed and fabricated roll cage- this is actually becoming very tedious, as I am having the cages CNC bent. The measurements are now extremely critical, and its a lot of trouble, but the ability to reproduce the cage quickly and exactly has its benefits.[*]HRD carbon-fibre front splitter- flat-plane, honeycomb foam core[*]Legal SCCA rear wing- man what an overpriced piece this is![*]Carbon trunk- probably Seibon[*]Carbon Hood- also probably Seibon[*]HRD carbon rear seat pan[*]HRD carbon rear firewall[*]HRD carbon door cards[*]HRD carbon parcel shelf[*]HRD carbon center console w/shifter surround[*]Drivers cool air system[*]Teamtech window and drivers side net and harnesses, because I truly believe in thier product, we buy it from 3R Automotive.[*]2006 Subaru WRX bodywork, provided by local Subaru dealer Flatirons Subaru/Flatirons Tuning. Despite the fact bodywork is almost last on the list to be ordered, Jon Cooley over there has been extremely helpful and patient with our seemingly endless questions.[/LIST]Electronics:[LIST][*]AIM MXL dashlogger w/ full datalogging[*]Armtech battery isolator- I hate the crappy manual switches, but love these things- at nearly 500 bucks it borders on insane[*]Racing Electronics radios- because they work[*]lightweight racing battery- Odyssey battery, probably a 940[/LIST]Wheels:[LIST][*]Team Dynamics ProRace1, the Spec wheel for the BTCC, look OK on the car and at $175 each we can afford to replace them as needed. And we need a lot of wheels- each car gets three sets, so 24 wheels to start the year![/LIST]We absolutely could not do this without our suppliers and supporters, and while it is early in the building I really want to go ahead and thank a few of those who have already proved invaluable:
Mark Moore at MSI, who will be supplying not only the DMS Dampers and tech support to go with them, but also nearly ALL of the suspension pieces we will be using. We could use pretty much anyones parts, but we chose MSI. I really cant say enough about Marks enthusiasm and how much help he has been. I firmly believe he wants this effort to succeed as much as I do.
Jack McGee at IAT ( [URL]http://jackstransmissions.com/[/URL] )who will be building all of our gearboxes for us. While his website shows only DSM transmissions, he can do pretty much whatever you want to your Subie trans. You will not find a more honest person to do business with.
Dave Jensen at Dave Jensen Enterprise South( [URL]http://www.davejensensouth.com/[/URL] ) who provide a LOT of our racing hard parts. I have known Dave and Howard for many many years and they are just good people, and if you have a racecar, I encourage you to do business with Dave. Tell him Cowboy Don sent you.
Obviously, this is the short list of parts, pieces, and people that will go into building and racing these cars. I will post some pictures etc as time goes on.
Engine: EJ20, turbocharged 2.0 litre[LIST][*]AEM EMS. We are using the AEM rather than MOTEC, because as mentioned before, we sell AEM here and not MOTEC.[*]Some form of aluminum radiator, proabaly griffin or fluidyne[*]Griffin Intercooler core, chosen because we have to runa stock-dimension TMIC and the Griffin core is much more efficient[*]Zero/Sports Air splitter- Chosen because we like Zero/Sports stuff:)[*]HRD exhuast- we build all our own exhaust here[*]HRD fuel system- we do that too[/LIST]Transmission:[LIST][*]Jack-built 5-speed WRX transmission- Thanks to my good friend Jack McGee, who is IMHO one of the best transmission builders out there.[*]SCCA legal dog-engagement gearset[*]MSI shifter[*]lightweight flywheel and clutch- No decisions on clutches yet, but probably looking at a custom flywheel and Tilton 2 or 3 disc unit[/LIST]Suspension:[LIST][*]DMS dampers[*]MSI subframes[*]MSI suspension links[*]MSI STI knuckles and hubs allowing us to change wheel bearings without pulling the effin axles.[/LIST]Brakes:[LIST][*]Wilwood Calipers- I might actually use AP calipers, but for now Wilwood is the answer[*]Full-floating rotors- probably PFC or Coleman[*]Tilton Dual master cylinder w/Bias[/LIST]Chassis:[LIST][*]HRD designed and fabricated roll cage- this is actually becoming very tedious, as I am having the cages CNC bent. The measurements are now extremely critical, and its a lot of trouble, but the ability to reproduce the cage quickly and exactly has its benefits.[*]HRD carbon-fibre front splitter- flat-plane, honeycomb foam core[*]Legal SCCA rear wing- man what an overpriced piece this is![*]Carbon trunk- probably Seibon[*]Carbon Hood- also probably Seibon[*]HRD carbon rear seat pan[*]HRD carbon rear firewall[*]HRD carbon door cards[*]HRD carbon parcel shelf[*]HRD carbon center console w/shifter surround[*]Drivers cool air system[*]Teamtech window and drivers side net and harnesses, because I truly believe in thier product, we buy it from 3R Automotive.[*]2006 Subaru WRX bodywork, provided by local Subaru dealer Flatirons Subaru/Flatirons Tuning. Despite the fact bodywork is almost last on the list to be ordered, Jon Cooley over there has been extremely helpful and patient with our seemingly endless questions.[/LIST]Electronics:[LIST][*]AIM MXL dashlogger w/ full datalogging[*]Armtech battery isolator- I hate the crappy manual switches, but love these things- at nearly 500 bucks it borders on insane[*]Racing Electronics radios- because they work[*]lightweight racing battery- Odyssey battery, probably a 940[/LIST]Wheels:[LIST][*]Team Dynamics ProRace1, the Spec wheel for the BTCC, look OK on the car and at $175 each we can afford to replace them as needed. And we need a lot of wheels- each car gets three sets, so 24 wheels to start the year![/LIST]We absolutely could not do this without our suppliers and supporters, and while it is early in the building I really want to go ahead and thank a few of those who have already proved invaluable:
Mark Moore at MSI, who will be supplying not only the DMS Dampers and tech support to go with them, but also nearly ALL of the suspension pieces we will be using. We could use pretty much anyones parts, but we chose MSI. I really cant say enough about Marks enthusiasm and how much help he has been. I firmly believe he wants this effort to succeed as much as I do.
Jack McGee at IAT ( [URL]http://jackstransmissions.com/[/URL] )who will be building all of our gearboxes for us. While his website shows only DSM transmissions, he can do pretty much whatever you want to your Subie trans. You will not find a more honest person to do business with.
Dave Jensen at Dave Jensen Enterprise South( [URL]http://www.davejensensouth.com/[/URL] ) who provide a LOT of our racing hard parts. I have known Dave and Howard for many many years and they are just good people, and if you have a racecar, I encourage you to do business with Dave. Tell him Cowboy Don sent you.
Obviously, this is the short list of parts, pieces, and people that will go into building and racing these cars. I will post some pictures etc as time goes on.
| pio!pio! | 03-14-2007 02:33 AM |
What does MSI stand for? The hubs and knuckles sound interesting. do they relocate the lower a-arm and tie rod mounting points?
are you guys allowed a quick ratio steering rack per the rules?
What about the motor? I know you guys can't upgrade the motor at all..but you can get one built to factory spec and tolerances right? Considering that a factory motor does not really follow their own spec sheet tolerences that well....
Hopefully you guys get a sponsor! Hire a full time marketing intern work for free type dude!! A go-fer for sponsors heheh
are you guys allowed a quick ratio steering rack per the rules?
What about the motor? I know you guys can't upgrade the motor at all..but you can get one built to factory spec and tolerances right? Considering that a factory motor does not really follow their own spec sheet tolerences that well....
Hopefully you guys get a sponsor! Hire a full time marketing intern work for free type dude!! A go-fer for sponsors heheh
| Don-HRD | 03-14-2007 02:52 AM |
MSI stands for Moore Sport Inc. [url]http://www.mooresport.com/[/url]
We are allowed to "blueprint" the motors and will be building them in house to the limit of the rules.
Not sure about quick steering racks, I am aware there are quick-rack conversions etc, but havent really looked into it.
We are allowed to "blueprint" the motors and will be building them in house to the limit of the rules.
Not sure about quick steering racks, I am aware there are quick-rack conversions etc, but havent really looked into it.
| pio!pio! | 03-14-2007 04:26 AM |
Here's to hoping you somehow reduce 99% of internal friction and get the power to the wheels! :)
| Joshw | 03-14-2007 09:12 AM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17348128]
Not sure about quick steering racks, I am aware there are quick-rack conversions etc, but havent really looked into it.[/QUOTE]
L&E Fabrication just up the road from you guys in Westminster sells quick columns... [URL="http://www.landefab.com"]www.landefab.com[/URL]
Not sure about quick steering racks, I am aware there are quick-rack conversions etc, but havent really looked into it.[/QUOTE]
L&E Fabrication just up the road from you guys in Westminster sells quick columns... [URL="http://www.landefab.com"]www.landefab.com[/URL]
| Don-HRD | 03-14-2007 05:22 PM |
I will have to look him up, assuming its legal in class.
| pio!pio! | 03-14-2007 05:58 PM |
The AWD Audi's have an 1st gear RPM limit presumably to deny them a lightning start...hopefully you guys will be immune to that type of ruling
| Don-HRD | 03-14-2007 06:56 PM |
if I had an engine built by Cosworth via Mahle I wouldnt care about a 1st gear rev limiter.
| AJS | 03-14-2007 07:31 PM |
Don - I sent you a quick question through PM....
Andrew
Andrew
| eclip5e | 03-15-2007 09:13 AM |
What are you doing with the car, SCCA? Which class?
| cooleyjb | 03-15-2007 09:18 AM |
Speed Touring Car
| Jaxx | 03-15-2007 09:28 AM |
have you talked to stoptec perhaps they would like 2 subaus SWC ?
| Don-HRD | 03-15-2007 01:55 PM |
I dont really care for stoptech personally
| DMS North America | 03-27-2007 09:13 PM |
Alcon ;)
| MPME | 03-27-2007 10:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17348128]MSI stands for Moore Sport Inc. [url]http://www.mooresport.com/[/url]
We are allowed to "blueprint" the motors and will be building them in house to the limit of the rules.
Not sure about quick steering racks, I am aware there are quick-rack conversions etc, but havent really looked into it.[/QUOTE]
To 99% of the people in professional road racing, "MSI" refers to Motorsports Spares International of Indianapolis, importer of Dallara, AP, Ohlins, and countless other exclusive products, along with 15 years of trackside support for IMSA/ALMS, GrandAM, IRL, and CART.
Your man might want to be careful to bill himself as "MSI" in the same motorsports parts and services industry--the owners of the real MSI won't hesitate to sue.
We are allowed to "blueprint" the motors and will be building them in house to the limit of the rules.
Not sure about quick steering racks, I am aware there are quick-rack conversions etc, but havent really looked into it.[/QUOTE]
To 99% of the people in professional road racing, "MSI" refers to Motorsports Spares International of Indianapolis, importer of Dallara, AP, Ohlins, and countless other exclusive products, along with 15 years of trackside support for IMSA/ALMS, GrandAM, IRL, and CART.
Your man might want to be careful to bill himself as "MSI" in the same motorsports parts and services industry--the owners of the real MSI won't hesitate to sue.
| MSI | 04-19-2007 11:53 AM |
THe company is registered as Moore-Sport Inc, MSI is the abreviation so no worries. There is also MSI video cards which is even larger than both of our companies ;)
There are many other people using the name MSI, soooo......
There are many other people using the name MSI, soooo......
| Storm | 04-19-2007 03:36 PM |
You might do well to contact Irish Mikes Towing in Orlando, FL. Last time I talked to their crewchief, they still had some spares from their SWC effort. Dampers, wheels, motors, diffs, etc.....
Jay Storm
Jay Storm
| blue blurr | 04-19-2007 06:08 PM |
Got anymore info on the custom interior pieces you will be using? (rear seat covers, deck cover.. etc..) I was planning on replacing the factory door cards with flat aluminum with handle cut outs, but hadn't though of anything for the rear seat hole.
As the money comes in I am slowly building up an 04' WRX to some what SWCT specs to race in regional SCCA races and maybe some "time attack" stuff. I thought you weren't allowed to use AIM stuff, only Motec and Stack for DAS?
Also, what are you doing for the fuel system?
As the money comes in I am slowly building up an 04' WRX to some what SWCT specs to race in regional SCCA races and maybe some "time attack" stuff. I thought you weren't allowed to use AIM stuff, only Motec and Stack for DAS?
Also, what are you doing for the fuel system?
| Porsche914boxer4 | 04-19-2007 07:03 PM |
[QUOTE=MSI;17778287]THe company is registered as Moore-Sport Inc, MSI is the abreviation so no worries. There is also MSI video cards which is even larger than both of our companies ;)
There are many other people using the name MSI, soooo......[/QUOTE]
Do you have a price list for those tubular subframes and quick access hubs?
There are many other people using the name MSI, soooo......[/QUOTE]
Do you have a price list for those tubular subframes and quick access hubs?
| Impreza01 | 09-22-2007 05:54 AM |
What ever happened with this? Did the team run out of funding?
| MSI | 10-02-2007 08:09 AM |
Not sure, I have not heard from Don in quite some time, his parts are sitting on the shelf here (rear subframe, CNC uprights, lateral links, mounts, etc)
-mark
-mark
| Suba_Roo | 10-02-2007 01:19 PM |
MSI, I've (and I think a bunch of others) have been intreagued by that rear subframe. Can you post a picture?
| triple_s1x | 10-02-2007 06:00 PM |
[quote=Suba_Roo;19562851]MSI, I've (and I think a bunch of others) have been intreagued by that rear subframe. Can you post a picture?[/quote]
x2 also curious.. :)
x2 also curious.. :)
| TCE | 10-02-2007 09:58 PM |
If you're still working on the brakes, perhaps we should discuss these:
[url]http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/images/Sales%20shot.jpg[/url]
Depending upon wheel size, 13.3" for 17s up to 14.25 for 18s.
I think you'd find them far superior to the current Wilwood factory offerings. Here's how they compare to the normal Superlite six found in many of the factory kits.
[url]http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/ToddTCE/Mustang/?action=view¤t=W6AandBSL6r.jpg[/url]
[url]http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/images/Sales%20shot.jpg[/url]
Depending upon wheel size, 13.3" for 17s up to 14.25 for 18s.
I think you'd find them far superior to the current Wilwood factory offerings. Here's how they compare to the normal Superlite six found in many of the factory kits.
[url]http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/ToddTCE/Mustang/?action=view¤t=W6AandBSL6r.jpg[/url]
| MSI | 10-03-2007 12:39 PM |
Not sure how too!
I have to host the picture somewere I think, and we have not had a chance to update the website yet. Will try this weekend so you can see. I can e-mail it to someone too if you want?
-mark
I have to host the picture somewere I think, and we have not had a chance to update the website yet. Will try this weekend so you can see. I can e-mail it to someone too if you want?
-mark
| Suba_Roo | 10-07-2007 11:27 AM |
MSI-
I sent you a pm with an e-mail address. Send me the pics of the subframe and I'll post them for you.
I sent you a pm with an e-mail address. Send me the pics of the subframe and I'll post them for you.
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