| Kitsune | 07-11-2003 09:48 PM |
SCCA Membership $70?!
�
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I just got my renewal form for my basic membership, $55 National Dues and $15 Regional Dues? When did these increases go up so much? I did not notice any announments about this? This just seems really steep, considering that the SCCA does'nt exactly do anything more for me then it has in the past. Unless it is and has'nt told me heh.
| Dirt Man | 07-11-2003 10:04 PM |
Gotta pay for the new HQ somehow.:confused:
| MattDell | 07-11-2003 11:57 PM |
Are you young enough for a First Gear SCCA membership?
-Matt
-Matt
| mofugga | 07-12-2003 12:31 AM |
uhh, i payed $70 to join last year...:huh:
| travmn | 07-12-2003 12:46 AM |
heh, if you think $70 is a lot, be glad you don't have a racing license. (I won't debate about how I feel my money is being put to use - too many mixed issues especially with the rally program)
| KC | 07-12-2003 09:34 AM |
Re: SCCA Membership $70?!
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kitsune [/i]
[B]I just got my renewal form for my basic membership, $55 National Dues and $15 Regional Dues? When did these increases go up so much? I did not notice any announments about this? This just seems really steep, considering that the SCCA does'nt exactly do anything more for me then it has in the past. Unless it is and has'nt told me heh. [/B][/QUOTE]It was in a SportsCar magazine a while ago.
[B]I just got my renewal form for my basic membership, $55 National Dues and $15 Regional Dues? When did these increases go up so much? I did not notice any announments about this? This just seems really steep, considering that the SCCA does'nt exactly do anything more for me then it has in the past. Unless it is and has'nt told me heh. [/B][/QUOTE]It was in a SportsCar magazine a while ago.
| Kitsune | 07-12-2003 11:03 AM |
I'm 22, the First Gear program does'nt really appeal to me other then if the membership fee is cheaper, which if I did not realize then I need to pay more attention. :o
A few years ago, when I first joined SCCA the programs where the same price I think. Price wise, it saved me money over the year because of the amount of autocross I was doing. Now that I've moved into rallycross, for $70 the value is much less for me. Regardless, I really fail to see the value in First Gear. From my point of view all it does is put a article in the back of Sports Car about some rich guys kid who is involved in racing because of the family blah blah, it's like a full page ad trying to tell everyone how the SCCA has some good ol family values. (Under the "Speed Freakz" program, I got a sticker, yay.)
Trav, even though I do not hold a real competition license yet, I do have my own reservations about using the SCCA as my route to becoming more involved with motorsports, however living in NJ I do not see many other options. If you have any suggestions I've love to hear them?
A few years ago, when I first joined SCCA the programs where the same price I think. Price wise, it saved me money over the year because of the amount of autocross I was doing. Now that I've moved into rallycross, for $70 the value is much less for me. Regardless, I really fail to see the value in First Gear. From my point of view all it does is put a article in the back of Sports Car about some rich guys kid who is involved in racing because of the family blah blah, it's like a full page ad trying to tell everyone how the SCCA has some good ol family values. (Under the "Speed Freakz" program, I got a sticker, yay.)
Trav, even though I do not hold a real competition license yet, I do have my own reservations about using the SCCA as my route to becoming more involved with motorsports, however living in NJ I do not see many other options. If you have any suggestions I've love to hear them?
| ConeMasher | 07-12-2003 12:46 PM |
Guess you need to pay more attention then.
-- Gary
-- Gary
| Kitsune | 07-12-2003 01:26 PM |
Really? I am glad you pointed that out for me, because I had not previously stated that same phrase myself.
| ConeMasher | 07-12-2003 10:54 PM |
For those that might not have been paying attention, First Gear is the rebirth of the SpeedFreakz program. SpeedFreaks used to cover the ages of 16 - 25, and was only $25 (+ regional dues) for a yearly SCCA membership. The new incarnation (First Gear) is $45 per year, and includes regional dues... however, membership in the program is limited to 16-21 year olds.
-- Gary
-- Gary
| travmn | 07-12-2003 11:17 PM |
don't forget, as soon as you get a competition license, they view you as being ready to pay the full amount and then you basically lose the priviledge of the speed freaks / first gear program.
i'd love to see more action from another sanctioning body to give me some more options for a competition license, but as it stands for me and what I do I have 2 basic options: scca clubrally/prorally option or get an FIA license (but I think I would still need the scca license for the club/prorally events - i always get confused about that).
there have been a few new possible groups coming up. NASA is one for road racing (don't recall what else NASA puts together), USAC was another (they took over cherokee trails I think - rally)...
a lot depends on the type of events you want to do. you could always do porsche/bmw car club events (depending on restrictions and your car) or quattro club events. I think those have lower dues.
i'd love to see more action from another sanctioning body to give me some more options for a competition license, but as it stands for me and what I do I have 2 basic options: scca clubrally/prorally option or get an FIA license (but I think I would still need the scca license for the club/prorally events - i always get confused about that).
there have been a few new possible groups coming up. NASA is one for road racing (don't recall what else NASA puts together), USAC was another (they took over cherokee trails I think - rally)...
a lot depends on the type of events you want to do. you could always do porsche/bmw car club events (depending on restrictions and your car) or quattro club events. I think those have lower dues.
| Kitsune | 07-12-2003 11:24 PM |
Well, I'm looking into rally now Trav. I ran autocross for a few years and just lost intrest with it. Road Racing I might be a bit better at, but Rally is just something I enjoy more. So, besides the SCCA I'm not really aware of anything else.
| Kitsune | 07-12-2003 11:30 PM |
If you have an FIA license, you get seeded zero at a prorally, and you only have to pay for an SCCA membership/License if your an American citizen. So, I suppose someone like Higgins would not have to pay SCCA fees; although since he's eligable for the championship he does?
I've heard some positive things about C.A.R.S but that is a bit of an unrealistic option right now.
I've heard some positive things about C.A.R.S but that is a bit of an unrealistic option right now.
| Strepto | 07-13-2003 10:31 AM |
That's interesting. I just got my membership renewal form and they still let me sign up under the Speed Freakz program. I know it's been phased out, but maybe they made a mistake in my favor. I'm 24, btw.
| firedog25 | 07-13-2003 08:33 PM |
You all should be glad you paid $70. They tried to give me a mighty humping and tried to make me pay $85... for a RENEWAL! I let it lapse, I'm not paying $85 for a renewal. I'm looking at National Auto Sport Association now, as I understand it, they formed because they were sick of SCCA garbage.
| Kitsune | 07-14-2003 12:25 AM |
$85? I'm guessing different regions have different fees? It was $15 for my region which is South Jersey of course. I have'nt actually ran with SJR in years, except for an autox about two months ago, I've been running with NER. If they possiable have a lower region fee, maybe I could look into switching regions.
| travmn | 07-14-2003 01:16 AM |
firedog - i hope you are in an area where NASA actually holds some events. They are still rather small and don't have a "full national" program going on. That said, I think they have a bright future and may be the key to some exciting racing to be in the US. SCCA continues to prove to be a club and doesn't satisfy the need for true professional series.
Aside from that, I thought regional dues were supposed to be a standard rate now instead of different across the country. Oh well.
Aside from that, I thought regional dues were supposed to be a standard rate now instead of different across the country. Oh well.
| CamaroFS34 | 07-14-2003 02:20 AM |
National dues increases have been fueling the membership fee increases the last couple of years. Once upon a time, the national dues were only $40. My regional dues (Blue Ridge Region -- Roanoke, Virginia!!) are only $10. I was slightly dismayed when the national dues were increased to $45, and more so with this latest increase, but I still pay less than many others due to the regional dues discrepancy.
However, you can "fight" the regional dues by joining which region you want. It doesn't matter if you live in Oahu, you can join the Arctic Alaska region if you wanted to. I am technically in the "DC Region area," but that region is too full of self-absorbed roadracer types; you're lucky if they [i]mention[/i] the upcoming DC region autocrosses in their slick monthly magazine, much less have a write-up on them. I joined Blue Ridge when I first joined SCCA, because that's where I was autocrossing. I have remained a BRR member ever since.
Karen
However, you can "fight" the regional dues by joining which region you want. It doesn't matter if you live in Oahu, you can join the Arctic Alaska region if you wanted to. I am technically in the "DC Region area," but that region is too full of self-absorbed roadracer types; you're lucky if they [i]mention[/i] the upcoming DC region autocrosses in their slick monthly magazine, much less have a write-up on them. I joined Blue Ridge when I first joined SCCA, because that's where I was autocrossing. I have remained a BRR member ever since.
Karen
| elgorey | 07-14-2003 09:37 AM |
Concerning the First Gear, you cannot join First Gear if you have previously had a "regular" membership, so if you cashed in the free SCCA membership that came with the WRX, you cannot renew with a First Gear membership.
| anders8 | 07-14-2003 11:12 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kitsune [/i]
[B] From my point of view all it does is put a article in the back of Sports Car about some rich guys kid who is involved in racing because of the family blah blah,
[/B][/QUOTE]
Perhaps you should go back and read
some of them again. Like Alex Kirhuani,
a rally codriver at age 16. He's paid
for everything himself and has also
put in a metric sh%tpile of volunteer
work.
Licenses: everyone who runs in SCCA
rally holds a membership with SCCA,
CARS, or the Mexican ASN. Those with
an FIA license will not _also_ need
an SCCA Rally Competition license.
To put your disraught at the prices
in perspective, ClubRally competition
licenses are $75 annually, and ProRally
competition licenses are $150 annually,
on top of the membership fee. And,
of course, all of that is in addition to
the $250 to $1100 entry fee per
event.
Anders
[B] From my point of view all it does is put a article in the back of Sports Car about some rich guys kid who is involved in racing because of the family blah blah,
[/B][/QUOTE]
Perhaps you should go back and read
some of them again. Like Alex Kirhuani,
a rally codriver at age 16. He's paid
for everything himself and has also
put in a metric sh%tpile of volunteer
work.
Licenses: everyone who runs in SCCA
rally holds a membership with SCCA,
CARS, or the Mexican ASN. Those with
an FIA license will not _also_ need
an SCCA Rally Competition license.
To put your disraught at the prices
in perspective, ClubRally competition
licenses are $75 annually, and ProRally
competition licenses are $150 annually,
on top of the membership fee. And,
of course, all of that is in addition to
the $250 to $1100 entry fee per
event.
Anders
| jprowland | 07-14-2003 11:56 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by anders8 [/i]
[B]
Perhaps you should go back and read
some of them again. Like Alex Kirhuani,
a rally codriver at age 16. He's paid
for everything himself and has also
put in a metric sh%tpile of volunteer
work.
...
And, of course, all of that is in addition to
the $250 to $1100 entry fee per
event.
Anders [/B][/QUOTE]
Alex is far from rich, as Anders said he has put in the time and work. He's been hitching rides (can't afford his own) to rallies for years before he was old enough to drive. I've rarely met anyone with a love of rallying more than he.
And let's not forget Pike's Peak which ranges from $1350-2350 depending on how early you register...
When I was in Speed Freaks, the membership fee ($25 maybe?) didn't allow you to have a competition license. You had to pay extra for an upgraded competition membership (in addition to your competition license fee).
Personally I find it disappointing to see so many people complain about the SCCA and use it as an excuse not to renew. I also find that most of the people complaining are people that first joined in the last year or two; others who have been putting up with club bureaucracy for years continue to do so. Why? Because it's better than the alternative, which is no club.
If you can find a better sports car club, join it. Until then, only 2 rallies in the US that I know of are sponsored by someone other than SCCA (USAC), and I'm not going to miss out on the rest. And my SCCA license is also recognized in Canada as well as the aforementioned 2 USAC rallies, so I get the best of both worlds. And if I ever wanted to rally internationally, SCCA would give me an temporary FIA license (which, btw, many SCCA rallies also recognize FIA licenses, so that's an alternative).
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, #896 Audi 4000 Quattro turbo, Open class
[url]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland[/url]
[B]
Perhaps you should go back and read
some of them again. Like Alex Kirhuani,
a rally codriver at age 16. He's paid
for everything himself and has also
put in a metric sh%tpile of volunteer
work.
...
And, of course, all of that is in addition to
the $250 to $1100 entry fee per
event.
Anders [/B][/QUOTE]
Alex is far from rich, as Anders said he has put in the time and work. He's been hitching rides (can't afford his own) to rallies for years before he was old enough to drive. I've rarely met anyone with a love of rallying more than he.
And let's not forget Pike's Peak which ranges from $1350-2350 depending on how early you register...
When I was in Speed Freaks, the membership fee ($25 maybe?) didn't allow you to have a competition license. You had to pay extra for an upgraded competition membership (in addition to your competition license fee).
Personally I find it disappointing to see so many people complain about the SCCA and use it as an excuse not to renew. I also find that most of the people complaining are people that first joined in the last year or two; others who have been putting up with club bureaucracy for years continue to do so. Why? Because it's better than the alternative, which is no club.
If you can find a better sports car club, join it. Until then, only 2 rallies in the US that I know of are sponsored by someone other than SCCA (USAC), and I'm not going to miss out on the rest. And my SCCA license is also recognized in Canada as well as the aforementioned 2 USAC rallies, so I get the best of both worlds. And if I ever wanted to rally internationally, SCCA would give me an temporary FIA license (which, btw, many SCCA rallies also recognize FIA licenses, so that's an alternative).
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, #896 Audi 4000 Quattro turbo, Open class
[url]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland[/url]
| CamaroFS34 | 07-14-2003 12:39 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jprowland [/i]
[B]Personally I find it disappointing to see so many people complain about the SCCA and use it as an excuse not to renew. [/B][/QUOTE]I have issues with some of the SCCA "costs," yes, but $65/year ($55 nationals dues, $10 Blue Ridge regional dues) is paltry compared to some of the things I spend my money on. I [i]do[/i] have an issue with the $55/yr I am supposed to spend on the ProSolo license, which doesn't need [i]any[/i] special qualifications to receive, unlike a ClubRally or ProRally license. I [i]do[/i] have an issue with a $5 per event increase in entry fees for ProSolos and National Tours, but only because it was not announced, and unlike the national dues increase, no reason was given for it. Tell me [i]why[/i], and I will be less annoyed, if annoyed at all.
Too many of the "newcomers" to the club (I've been a member for 10 years now) start off with a freebie (ie., coupled to a WRX purchase) or cheapie (ie., SpeedFreakz/First Gear), and then somehow feel entitled to a cheap or free membership from then on. Yet, like my high school students, they have absolutely no problem dropping $100 on a pair of Nikes or $18 on [i]a[/i] CD or $50 for the latest PS2 fad-game.
Karen
[B]Personally I find it disappointing to see so many people complain about the SCCA and use it as an excuse not to renew. [/B][/QUOTE]I have issues with some of the SCCA "costs," yes, but $65/year ($55 nationals dues, $10 Blue Ridge regional dues) is paltry compared to some of the things I spend my money on. I [i]do[/i] have an issue with the $55/yr I am supposed to spend on the ProSolo license, which doesn't need [i]any[/i] special qualifications to receive, unlike a ClubRally or ProRally license. I [i]do[/i] have an issue with a $5 per event increase in entry fees for ProSolos and National Tours, but only because it was not announced, and unlike the national dues increase, no reason was given for it. Tell me [i]why[/i], and I will be less annoyed, if annoyed at all.
Too many of the "newcomers" to the club (I've been a member for 10 years now) start off with a freebie (ie., coupled to a WRX purchase) or cheapie (ie., SpeedFreakz/First Gear), and then somehow feel entitled to a cheap or free membership from then on. Yet, like my high school students, they have absolutely no problem dropping $100 on a pair of Nikes or $18 on [i]a[/i] CD or $50 for the latest PS2 fad-game.
Karen
| solo-x | 07-14-2003 12:54 PM |
i got my scca membership through the speed freaks program when i first started and this year was the first year i had to spend the $75 to renew my license. yeah, it hurt, but imo it's worth it. next year will suck when i have to drop $130 to renew my scca membership and pro solo license, but oh well. racing ain't cheap. never has been, never will be.
nate
nate
| Kitsune | 07-14-2003 02:27 PM |
I've been a constant member for over three years, and prior to that I had an active interest in the SCCA's programs. I admit, that it is my mistake for making a generalization about the last page on Sports Car magazine and it's content. However, I feel, my previous statement about who gets featured in the articles for the most part is true. The reason being is that the SCCA wants to foster it�s family oriented image, which is a good marketing strategy and nothing else.
I do not read Sports Car all that closely, since most of the articles are poorly written and have no information that is of value or interest to me. There also appears to be a distinct lack of professionalism by the SCCA's main office and many of the regions in how they handle everything from securing AutoX locations too the knee-jerk way they react to unexpected circumstances.
I have trouble understanding this, people find problems with the SCCA and use it as an excuse to not renew? If a person feels that an organization, that they pay to be part of, does not suit their needs or address their concerns explain to me how this is an excuse? Most people seem to have a very valid reason for not renewing.
Another thing that I've always found very agitating, is the distinct lack of effort most SCCA members put into helping an event run. (This is from AutoX, RallyX, ProRally experience.) Every event I show up for, I expect that I will have to put at least some effort
into setting up or tearing down. Most people seem completely oblivious to anything but prating on and on to each other. Coupled with the poor attitudes I find and rising costs of membership with no increase in benefits or even a more professionally run event, I am dumb founded that people are so quick to defend the SCCA's policies.
Being that I am young and not wealthy, I should not be surprised if my opinion carries no weight or is shown a sufficient lack of respect in the majority of this group. I see things in a different way and that is unacceptable. Yes I do have a problem with the rising cost of taking part in a club that has never once properly addressed my concerns, I do have a problem with this apparent elitist mentality I've come across in the SCCA. And yes I do
have a problem with having to waste my time writing this much on a message board in what may simply be a vain attempt to get my point across. $70, which was the whole catalyst for this thread after all, for me is not something to just drop down without
considering why I am writing out a check. If I could afford a $1,100 entry fee for an event, I would give that just as much consideration, however $70 is my issue of concern not $1,100. True enough, since motorsports is something I enjoy more then say shopping or wasting time in bars, I often am finding myself shelling out the cash to race.
The SCCA is not doing me a favor when it cashes my check, I have done more for the club, which is actually what a club�s members are supposed to, work together in order to make things happen. Instead, I�m presented with examples of individuals doing more then their fair share so other people can enjoy themselves.
If I could find a better sports car club, I would join it. Unfortunately, my main focus is on rally, not sports car racing, which I have mentioned more then once. Therefore my
options are limited at this current time and part of the reason I started this entire thread.
I do not read Sports Car all that closely, since most of the articles are poorly written and have no information that is of value or interest to me. There also appears to be a distinct lack of professionalism by the SCCA's main office and many of the regions in how they handle everything from securing AutoX locations too the knee-jerk way they react to unexpected circumstances.
I have trouble understanding this, people find problems with the SCCA and use it as an excuse to not renew? If a person feels that an organization, that they pay to be part of, does not suit their needs or address their concerns explain to me how this is an excuse? Most people seem to have a very valid reason for not renewing.
Another thing that I've always found very agitating, is the distinct lack of effort most SCCA members put into helping an event run. (This is from AutoX, RallyX, ProRally experience.) Every event I show up for, I expect that I will have to put at least some effort
into setting up or tearing down. Most people seem completely oblivious to anything but prating on and on to each other. Coupled with the poor attitudes I find and rising costs of membership with no increase in benefits or even a more professionally run event, I am dumb founded that people are so quick to defend the SCCA's policies.
Being that I am young and not wealthy, I should not be surprised if my opinion carries no weight or is shown a sufficient lack of respect in the majority of this group. I see things in a different way and that is unacceptable. Yes I do have a problem with the rising cost of taking part in a club that has never once properly addressed my concerns, I do have a problem with this apparent elitist mentality I've come across in the SCCA. And yes I do
have a problem with having to waste my time writing this much on a message board in what may simply be a vain attempt to get my point across. $70, which was the whole catalyst for this thread after all, for me is not something to just drop down without
considering why I am writing out a check. If I could afford a $1,100 entry fee for an event, I would give that just as much consideration, however $70 is my issue of concern not $1,100. True enough, since motorsports is something I enjoy more then say shopping or wasting time in bars, I often am finding myself shelling out the cash to race.
The SCCA is not doing me a favor when it cashes my check, I have done more for the club, which is actually what a club�s members are supposed to, work together in order to make things happen. Instead, I�m presented with examples of individuals doing more then their fair share so other people can enjoy themselves.
If I could find a better sports car club, I would join it. Unfortunately, my main focus is on rally, not sports car racing, which I have mentioned more then once. Therefore my
options are limited at this current time and part of the reason I started this entire thread.
| solo-x | 07-14-2003 03:50 PM |
i'm not sure i'm really following where you are going here. it almost seems like you are agitated that you pay $70 for a membership in a club where the local membership puts forth no effort in running events. if that is really the issue, then the problem is not the $70, it's the lack of local volunteers. i see it in the clubs i participate in. a handfull of core people put on the event, and the rest generally bitch and complain about how things could be better. i don't like being one of 3 people throwing 1500 cones into the back of the timing van while 30 people watch, bored because the trophies aren't being presented yet. i still do it because i know that whatever i can do to help helps my club and helps assure that i get to continue racing. $70 to the SCCA is just another way of doing the same thing. and if i truly feel i'm being shorted at some level, i do what i can to change it, and if that doesn't work, i talk to someone with more clout then i. (it helps to bust your tail at local events in this situation, because that makes the people that carry weight with the policy makers more willing to go to bat for you.)
nate-did i ramble??:huh: i think i did....
nate-did i ramble??:huh: i think i did....
| anders8 | 07-14-2003 06:17 PM |
Very tricky situation Kitsune. You are volunteering, yet you're still unsatisfied with the club. The fees feel ever more expensive, yet there is no obvious reason why.
Well, I don't have a comprehensive answer, but I can probably address a few points.
[quote]
I do not read Sports Car all that closely, since most of the articles are poorly written and have no information that is of value or interest to me[/quote]
You already knew how quickly ultraviolet light degrades dacron and nylon and it's effect on seat belt strength? That would seem interesting to someone getting into rally. Poorly written? Almost everything in the magazine is volunteered. I'm know of several articles that were submitted out of the blue by people I know, and *poof* the were in the next issue. Share your experiences with us by writing an article!
[quote]
I've always found very agitating, is the distinct lack of effort most SCCA members put into helping ...completely oblivious to anything but prating on and on to each other... poor attitudes ...rising costs [/quote]
The reason we defend this is that it is found in *every* organization. You cannot find another club with 60,000 members that doesn't have a small core of people doing the work and most of the rest loafing. We don't complain about that because there isn't an alternative club to go to, there is only one solution: volunteer at a higher level. I recently was going over rally codriver interviews from the UK. After reading about 60 interviews, I found that the things they were complaining about in their organizations are the same problems we have; costs, leadership, organization, red tape, lack of volunteers.
[quote]
Being that I am young and not wealthy, I should not be surprised if my opinion carries no weight or is shown a sufficient lack of respect in the majority of this group.[/quote]
You're not that young, and you're not that poor either. Everyone in racing spends the same amount: a little bit more than everything they have. I usually respect those with experience. Now, how does someone starting out in motorsport get that experience in a cost effective manner? Don't think that we don't care, I'm a member of several task forces who's focus is on the economical side of rallying. I'd ballpark about 20 people nationwide are also in it. I'm wondering if you could hire 20 people for a year just to work on your problem... for $70. There is an amazing amount of volunteer work going on in the SCCA, I still think the price is right.
[quote]
an organization, that they pay to be part of[/quote]
The organization you describe, where you pay your money and everything is professional, would cost a ridiculous amount of money. In order to get the "professional" treatment you're asking for, everyone would have to get paid. Imagine a rally like STPR. 600 volunteers for two days? And you want trained, professional staff who are putting in 12 hour days? Let's say $15 an hour. It's $108,000 just in wages for the weekend. Then you have to transport them all there, feed them, house them? Hotels at quad occupancy would be $13k, and food at $7 a meal would be $25k. So there's $146,000 dollars that just got saved for ONE EVENT, because these things are volunteered. If we imagine that there are 80 entrants, that means that the entry fee just went down by $1825 EACH. The choice there is, oh, the actual entry fee was $600? 600 compared to the "professional" treatment version of $2425 each. I'll take the one with volunteers and be glad of it.
What I'm basically getting at here is that the membership fee has the same deal going. At $70, it's still a bargain compared to how much you get, since there is such a huge amount of volunteer work included in that price. You can only compare a price to it's value to you... but all the folks volunteering to put on rallys and rallycrosses is worth it to me.
If you want even cheaper racing, I can only recommend finding the local non-SCCA autocross club. Although I expect you will find many of the same problems, albeit on a smaller scale. However, the price may be more palatable.
I'm totally not trying to incite you or cut you down, but merely trying to help you see how some of us non-scca-haters view the scenario.
Cheers!
Anders
Well, I don't have a comprehensive answer, but I can probably address a few points.
[quote]
I do not read Sports Car all that closely, since most of the articles are poorly written and have no information that is of value or interest to me[/quote]
You already knew how quickly ultraviolet light degrades dacron and nylon and it's effect on seat belt strength? That would seem interesting to someone getting into rally. Poorly written? Almost everything in the magazine is volunteered. I'm know of several articles that were submitted out of the blue by people I know, and *poof* the were in the next issue. Share your experiences with us by writing an article!
[quote]
I've always found very agitating, is the distinct lack of effort most SCCA members put into helping ...completely oblivious to anything but prating on and on to each other... poor attitudes ...rising costs [/quote]
The reason we defend this is that it is found in *every* organization. You cannot find another club with 60,000 members that doesn't have a small core of people doing the work and most of the rest loafing. We don't complain about that because there isn't an alternative club to go to, there is only one solution: volunteer at a higher level. I recently was going over rally codriver interviews from the UK. After reading about 60 interviews, I found that the things they were complaining about in their organizations are the same problems we have; costs, leadership, organization, red tape, lack of volunteers.
[quote]
Being that I am young and not wealthy, I should not be surprised if my opinion carries no weight or is shown a sufficient lack of respect in the majority of this group.[/quote]
You're not that young, and you're not that poor either. Everyone in racing spends the same amount: a little bit more than everything they have. I usually respect those with experience. Now, how does someone starting out in motorsport get that experience in a cost effective manner? Don't think that we don't care, I'm a member of several task forces who's focus is on the economical side of rallying. I'd ballpark about 20 people nationwide are also in it. I'm wondering if you could hire 20 people for a year just to work on your problem... for $70. There is an amazing amount of volunteer work going on in the SCCA, I still think the price is right.
[quote]
an organization, that they pay to be part of[/quote]
The organization you describe, where you pay your money and everything is professional, would cost a ridiculous amount of money. In order to get the "professional" treatment you're asking for, everyone would have to get paid. Imagine a rally like STPR. 600 volunteers for two days? And you want trained, professional staff who are putting in 12 hour days? Let's say $15 an hour. It's $108,000 just in wages for the weekend. Then you have to transport them all there, feed them, house them? Hotels at quad occupancy would be $13k, and food at $7 a meal would be $25k. So there's $146,000 dollars that just got saved for ONE EVENT, because these things are volunteered. If we imagine that there are 80 entrants, that means that the entry fee just went down by $1825 EACH. The choice there is, oh, the actual entry fee was $600? 600 compared to the "professional" treatment version of $2425 each. I'll take the one with volunteers and be glad of it.
What I'm basically getting at here is that the membership fee has the same deal going. At $70, it's still a bargain compared to how much you get, since there is such a huge amount of volunteer work included in that price. You can only compare a price to it's value to you... but all the folks volunteering to put on rallys and rallycrosses is worth it to me.
If you want even cheaper racing, I can only recommend finding the local non-SCCA autocross club. Although I expect you will find many of the same problems, albeit on a smaller scale. However, the price may be more palatable.
I'm totally not trying to incite you or cut you down, but merely trying to help you see how some of us non-scca-haters view the scenario.
Cheers!
Anders
| Kitsune | 07-14-2003 08:03 PM |
I appreciate your ability to share your view in a intelligent manner. Which is very hard to find with Internet conversations. I will often express my ideas in a brash manner, though which may not change, could cause communication difficulties.
Citing my views on Sports Car, I still can not agree that it is a very useful publication for myself. As I usually have far to many personal projects, writing an article for Sports Car, although somewhat attractive is just not something I can take the time for. However, that does not mean I should not be critical of what is published.
(Not young? You calling me old :-P hehe) No I am not poor, but I was speaking in relative terms. Example, I can not afford to exploit a autocross class buy purchasing a class killer or shopping for the best OEM equivalent part that is just legal. I recognize that
I could simply accept that is part of racing, which it is of course, but I've seen far to many examples. It is one of the reasons I stopped running autocross. That, and there is a general
lack of cordiality with many of the entries and organizers over certain matters. Once again, this is just something I have experienced and I concede other's may have much more positive experiences. Though, I am from NJ and people can be real priks to begin with. And you pointed out, that these above problems are part of any form of motorsports and your right. So, I can not fairly blame the SCCA for these things, though I still am not happy to see it happening within SCCA since it is the club I am a part of.
Not everything has been negative. I have enjoyed greatly working both Maine Forest and STPR which being a SCCA member made all the more easier. NER's rallycross events have been well organized, safe and fun. Taking into account the logistics of running them, makes it all the more impressive.
That is sort of besides the point of the membership fee, which is the initial reason I posted. When your part of a club, and that club manages to let you down a number of times, then your expected to pay more when nothing has actually improved I have a problem with that. I see room for improvement, but a general apathy for doing so. You may be correct, in that I can not expect everything to be as professional as I would like, though is expecting steps forward not backward unrealistic?
Citing my views on Sports Car, I still can not agree that it is a very useful publication for myself. As I usually have far to many personal projects, writing an article for Sports Car, although somewhat attractive is just not something I can take the time for. However, that does not mean I should not be critical of what is published.
(Not young? You calling me old :-P hehe) No I am not poor, but I was speaking in relative terms. Example, I can not afford to exploit a autocross class buy purchasing a class killer or shopping for the best OEM equivalent part that is just legal. I recognize that
I could simply accept that is part of racing, which it is of course, but I've seen far to many examples. It is one of the reasons I stopped running autocross. That, and there is a general
lack of cordiality with many of the entries and organizers over certain matters. Once again, this is just something I have experienced and I concede other's may have much more positive experiences. Though, I am from NJ and people can be real priks to begin with. And you pointed out, that these above problems are part of any form of motorsports and your right. So, I can not fairly blame the SCCA for these things, though I still am not happy to see it happening within SCCA since it is the club I am a part of.
Not everything has been negative. I have enjoyed greatly working both Maine Forest and STPR which being a SCCA member made all the more easier. NER's rallycross events have been well organized, safe and fun. Taking into account the logistics of running them, makes it all the more impressive.
That is sort of besides the point of the membership fee, which is the initial reason I posted. When your part of a club, and that club manages to let you down a number of times, then your expected to pay more when nothing has actually improved I have a problem with that. I see room for improvement, but a general apathy for doing so. You may be correct, in that I can not expect everything to be as professional as I would like, though is expecting steps forward not backward unrealistic?
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