| KC | 01-31-2005 10:18 AM |
March Fastrack is Out
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[url]http://www.scca.org/_Filelibrary/File/05-03-fastrack.pdf[/url]
Of note... [list][*]Still no mention of helmets (Closed Face/Airbag issue)[*]Subaru Legacy 2.5GT is officially classed in DS[*]Jeff Brown STAC Chair (personal comments regarding this withheld)[*]There will be another Stock Class re-org coming soon (See items Not Recommended)[*]Stuff about live axles in ST[/list]
--kC
Of note... [list][*]Still no mention of helmets (Closed Face/Airbag issue)[*]Subaru Legacy 2.5GT is officially classed in DS[*]Jeff Brown STAC Chair (personal comments regarding this withheld)[*]There will be another Stock Class re-org coming soon (See items Not Recommended)[*]Stuff about live axles in ST[/list]
--kC
| rautox | 01-31-2005 10:59 AM |
[QUOTE=KC][list][*]There will be another Stock Class re-org coming soon (See items Not Recommended)[/list][/QUOTE]
Fixing.... which if any of the real or imagined problems or ways its always beens?
Fixing.... which if any of the real or imagined problems or ways its always beens?
| KC | 01-31-2005 11:04 AM |
Something about many people feel ther are cars currently in DS should be in GS.. and some in GS should be in HS. I beleive there's gong to be a 'problem' with AS as the S2Ks are faster than the fastest old AS cars... can't have Vettes with hurt feelings, right? ;)
--KC
--KC
| rautox | 01-31-2005 11:06 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]Something about many people feel ther are cars currently in DS should be in GS.. and some in GS should be in HS. I beleive there's gong to be a 'problem' with AS as the S2Ks are faster than the fastest old AS cars... can't have Vettes with hurt feelings, right? ;)
--KC[/QUOTE]Makes sense. Hopefully, the miatas will get a place to run, too.
;)
--KC[/QUOTE]Makes sense. Hopefully, the miatas will get a place to run, too.
;)
| KC | 01-31-2005 11:16 AM |
Oh yeah.. and the new C6s and Z06s being faster than the old ones... Gotta do something with the 'slower' cars.
| ChrisW | 01-31-2005 11:24 AM |
[QUOTE=KC][url="http://www.scca.org/_Filelibrary/File/05-03-fastrack.pdf"]http://www.scca.org/_Filelibrary/File/05-03-fastrack.pdf[/url]
Stuff about live axles in ST
--kC[/QUOTE]
Sounds ok to me. It just brings those SP mods in parity with street touring. It's a tough call on what to do with the "old and slow" cars in the stock classes.
At some point you have to realize that the old tech is just not that fast anymore. I tend to think that is more of a problem for the driver, not the SCCA.
Stuff about live axles in ST
--kC[/QUOTE]
Sounds ok to me. It just brings those SP mods in parity with street touring. It's a tough call on what to do with the "old and slow" cars in the stock classes.
At some point you have to realize that the old tech is just not that fast anymore. I tend to think that is more of a problem for the driver, not the SCCA.
| wrx2.0 555 | 01-31-2005 11:54 AM |
[QUOTE=ChrisW]At some point you have to realize that the old tech is just not that fast anymore. I tend to think that is more of a problem for the driver, not the SCCA.[/QUOTE]
I have no opinion on this statement at all so I have to pose a question.
Is its the SCCA's responsibility to assume people will evolve into a newer car or to make accommodations for the older cars by re-classing them as the new ones get better?
This is one of those things I have never thought about, so I'm kinda curious of your opinions.
Scott
I have no opinion on this statement at all so I have to pose a question.
Is its the SCCA's responsibility to assume people will evolve into a newer car or to make accommodations for the older cars by re-classing them as the new ones get better?
This is one of those things I have never thought about, so I'm kinda curious of your opinions.
Scott
| KC | 01-31-2005 12:08 PM |
No, it's not their 'responsibility' but there are many members who think they should... and the SCCA listens on a case-by-case basis. Witness the re-org we had in 2002... Big shuffle. The Fastrack points there's another one in the works.
The same people that complain about their old cars not being competitive in stock are the ones that don't move up toi SP where they cvan be challengeing again.
And then there are some cars that just aren't competitive (WRX in DS) on a national level, but they're too good to be put in any other class (hard thing to do). This is why STX is soo popular as "Stock+". Not many people run a WRX in stock for long with hopes of being nationally competitive (Nationals 2004 = 0 WRXs in DS) becuase of it's laack of camber eating through hoosiers and better cars in the class (IS300, BMW, ITR).
Once you start modifying the WRX... it becomes competitive in other classes.
--kC
The same people that complain about their old cars not being competitive in stock are the ones that don't move up toi SP where they cvan be challengeing again.
And then there are some cars that just aren't competitive (WRX in DS) on a national level, but they're too good to be put in any other class (hard thing to do). This is why STX is soo popular as "Stock+". Not many people run a WRX in stock for long with hopes of being nationally competitive (Nationals 2004 = 0 WRXs in DS) becuase of it's laack of camber eating through hoosiers and better cars in the class (IS300, BMW, ITR).
Once you start modifying the WRX... it becomes competitive in other classes.
--kC
| AUTOwrXER | 01-31-2005 05:11 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Something about many people feel ther are cars currently in DS should be in GS.. and some in GS should be in HS. I beleive there's gong to be a 'problem' with AS as the S2Ks are faster than the fastest old AS cars... can't have Vettes with hurt feelings, right? ;)
--KC[/QUOTE]
They will both go down to a well setup 05 Boxster S. Look at what Rob Falkner did with that car years ago in SS. Just IMO, of course.
--KC[/QUOTE]
They will both go down to a well setup 05 Boxster S. Look at what Rob Falkner did with that car years ago in SS. Just IMO, of course.
| Dussander | 01-31-2005 05:37 PM |
There seem to be very few people who can drive a Boxster like Rob though. He is a strange one. He told me that you should always just drive the shortest line around a course. Weird. It apparently works for him though.
| dwx | 01-31-2005 05:38 PM |
Have they classed the 05 Boxster S yet? I noticed the 05 Boxster was classed in AS as of this Fastrack, but haven't seen anything about the S. The pre-05 Boxster S may be a contender, but I don't think anyone has seriously run one in years.
| ChrisW | 01-31-2005 07:45 PM |
[QUOTE=wrx2.0 555]I have no opinion on this statement at all so I have to pose a question.
Is its the SCCA's responsibility to assume people will evolve into a newer car or to make accommodations for the older cars by re-classing them as the new ones get better?
This is one of those things I have never thought about, so I'm kinda curious of your opinions.
Scott[/QUOTE]
hmmm.. tough question.
I guess the answer has to be shared between both the driver and the SCCA. The SCCA can only do so much to maintain performance parity with only 8 different classes. Increase the number of classes, and you make it harder to run an event. As KC points out, there is an ongoing resuffle of all the classes, with more to come. But at some point this shuffling will stop. That's when the driver has to acknowledge that he drives an uncompetitive POS and needs to either mod the car and move to another class, or get another car to compete in the class they want to.
Is its the SCCA's responsibility to assume people will evolve into a newer car or to make accommodations for the older cars by re-classing them as the new ones get better?
This is one of those things I have never thought about, so I'm kinda curious of your opinions.
Scott[/QUOTE]
hmmm.. tough question.
I guess the answer has to be shared between both the driver and the SCCA. The SCCA can only do so much to maintain performance parity with only 8 different classes. Increase the number of classes, and you make it harder to run an event. As KC points out, there is an ongoing resuffle of all the classes, with more to come. But at some point this shuffling will stop. That's when the driver has to acknowledge that he drives an uncompetitive POS and needs to either mod the car and move to another class, or get another car to compete in the class they want to.
| wrx2.0 555 | 01-31-2005 08:09 PM |
[QUOTE=ChrisW]That's when the driver has to acknowledge that he drives an uncompetitive POS and needs to either mod the car and move to another class, or get another car to compete in the class they want to.[/QUOTE]
Sounds reasonable to me....
Sounds reasonable to me....
| Orion | 02-01-2005 08:24 AM |
[QUOTE=KC][url="http://www.scca.org/_Filelibrary/File/05-03-fastrack.pdf"]http://www.scca.org/_Filelibrary/File/05-03-fastrack.pdf[/url]
Jeff Brown STAC Chair (personal comments regarding this withheld)
[/QUOTE]
Since I'm the resident ST whiner around here, I'll pipe up.
So let's see, Jeff runs 1 maybe 2 events bigger than a local a year, and even locals he doesn't run often and he's qualified to CHAIR THE STAC???!!!
This makes me even happier to have left ST.
I think it's ridiculous that people that aren't very active are in decision making positions. Nothing against Jeff personally, maybe he was the only one willing to take the reins or was nominated into the position. Either way, wow.
Jeff Brown STAC Chair (personal comments regarding this withheld)
[/QUOTE]
Since I'm the resident ST whiner around here, I'll pipe up.
So let's see, Jeff runs 1 maybe 2 events bigger than a local a year, and even locals he doesn't run often and he's qualified to CHAIR THE STAC???!!!
This makes me even happier to have left ST.
I think it's ridiculous that people that aren't very active are in decision making positions. Nothing against Jeff personally, maybe he was the only one willing to take the reins or was nominated into the position. Either way, wow.
| ChrisW | 02-01-2005 11:04 AM |
[QUOTE=Orion]Since I'm the resident ST whiner around here, I'll pipe up.
So let's see, Jeff runs 1 maybe 2 events bigger than a local a year, and even locals he doesn't run often and he's qualified to CHAIR THE STAC???!!!
This makes me even happier to have left ST.
I think it's ridiculous that people that aren't very active are in decision making positions. Nothing against Jeff personally, maybe he was the only one willing to take the reins or was nominated into the position. Either way, wow.[/QUOTE]
:huh:
how the hell does that work?
So let's see, Jeff runs 1 maybe 2 events bigger than a local a year, and even locals he doesn't run often and he's qualified to CHAIR THE STAC???!!!
This makes me even happier to have left ST.
I think it's ridiculous that people that aren't very active are in decision making positions. Nothing against Jeff personally, maybe he was the only one willing to take the reins or was nominated into the position. Either way, wow.[/QUOTE]
:huh:
how the hell does that work?
| KC | 02-01-2005 11:20 AM |
[QUOTE=ChrisW]:huh:
how the hell does that work?[/QUOTE]
He drives a Honda. Must be right. (oops, said too much).
how the hell does that work?[/QUOTE]
He drives a Honda. Must be right. (oops, said too much).
| ScoobyShak | 02-01-2005 01:09 PM |
I just saw this post but I had questioned this about 2 weeks ago. So here is a response on helmets.
Hi, Dan,
4.3.1 says, "Helmets meeting the following standards must be worn while on course: All helmets meeting the current or two immediately preceding Snell Foundation standards (SA, K, or M), or SFI standards 31.1A, 31.2A, 41.1A, or 41.2A are acceptable."
Since the 2005 standard will not be released until October of 2005, the current Snell standard for this year is the 2000 standard. The compliant helmets are
Snell SA90, M90, SA95, M95, SA2000, M2000
SFI 31.1A (open-face motorsports), 31.2A (full-face motorsports), 41.1A (open-face motorcycle), 41.2A (full-face motorcycle)
Hope this helps.
- Doug
Doug Gill
SCCA Technical Manager, Solo
PO Box 19400
Topeka, KS 66619-0400
1-800-770-2055
SCCA National Solo Rules - http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=031EA3-B831900&x=050|070
Hi, Dan,
4.3.1 says, "Helmets meeting the following standards must be worn while on course: All helmets meeting the current or two immediately preceding Snell Foundation standards (SA, K, or M), or SFI standards 31.1A, 31.2A, 41.1A, or 41.2A are acceptable."
Since the 2005 standard will not be released until October of 2005, the current Snell standard for this year is the 2000 standard. The compliant helmets are
Snell SA90, M90, SA95, M95, SA2000, M2000
SFI 31.1A (open-face motorsports), 31.2A (full-face motorsports), 41.1A (open-face motorcycle), 41.2A (full-face motorcycle)
Hope this helps.
- Doug
Doug Gill
SCCA Technical Manager, Solo
PO Box 19400
Topeka, KS 66619-0400
1-800-770-2055
SCCA National Solo Rules - http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=031EA3-B831900&x=050|070
| KC | 02-01-2005 01:29 PM |
Sorry, I wasn't clear on 'Still no mention of helmets'. What I meant by that was open faced/closed face 'wording' they said was going to be published in an early 2005 fastrack.. not which ones were legal. Yeah... 2005 won't be out until Oct... so 90+ M or SA are fine. When 2005 comes out... 90 goes Bye Bye.
Edited original post.
Edited original post.
| CamaroFS34 | 02-02-2005 11:09 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]He drives a Honda. Must be right. (oops, said too much).[/QUOTE]
No.... he drives a [b][i]Type [color=red]R[/color][/b][/i]. That's much more impressive than "just a Honda." :rolleyes:
Oops, I think I said too much too.
Karen
[i]convinced that scca board members f'tards are chosen by f'tards :p[/i]
No.... he drives a [b][i]Type [color=red]R[/color][/b][/i]. That's much more impressive than "just a Honda." :rolleyes:
Oops, I think I said too much too.
Karen
[i]convinced that scca board members f'tards are chosen by f'tards :p[/i]
| ChrisW | 02-02-2005 11:19 AM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34]No.... he drives a [b][i]Type [color=red]R[/color][/b][/i]. That's much more impressive than "just a Hond[i]uh[/i]." :rolleyes:
Oops, I think I said too much too.
Karen
[i]convinced that scca board members f'tards are chosen by f'tards :p[/i][/QUOTE]
there fixed it for ya :p
I guess that explains the chaos behind the stock classing changes. Why don't you run Karen? you would have my vote
Oops, I think I said too much too.
Karen
[i]convinced that scca board members f'tards are chosen by f'tards :p[/i][/QUOTE]
there fixed it for ya :p
I guess that explains the chaos behind the stock classing changes. Why don't you run Karen? you would have my vote
| KC | 02-02-2005 11:30 AM |
[QUOTE=Orion]This makes me even happier to have left ST.[/QUOTE]
2ndeded
2ndeded
| Steve '02 WRX | 02-02-2005 02:09 PM |
There is actually a good chance that he got it because no one else volunteered. I don't know that for a fact, but I serve on a volunteer committee in Cendiv and there are always openings and nobody wants to put in the time. Nothing wrong with people feeling that way, but I think it is probably a more likely scenario than some conspiracy to put unqualified people in these positions. Does anyone know for sure that someone more qualified asked for the position and didn't get it?
| CamaroFS34 | 02-02-2005 07:30 PM |
I ran for the SEDiv SEB opening, at the urging of Marcus Merideth, Mark Sipe (who was stepping down), Mark Sirota, and Chris Dorsey, as well as many non SEB-members. The current SEB votes on who the new members are from the applicants. In October, I was told by Marcus, "You'd better get your letter of interest in, because we only have one person from the SE Division so far, and it's Steve Hoelscher." It was obvious from his tone that he could have voted for anyone but Steve.
Well, I don't know if they got any others besides mine, but the current SEB members "opted" to go with Hoelscher. [i]shrug[/i] Sam Strano was also encouraged to enter his name into the hat by current SEB members. He also was overlooked, for Tina Reeves in the NE Division.
Karen
Well, I don't know if they got any others besides mine, but the current SEB members "opted" to go with Hoelscher. [i]shrug[/i] Sam Strano was also encouraged to enter his name into the hat by current SEB members. He also was overlooked, for Tina Reeves in the NE Division.
Karen
| AUTOwrXER | 02-03-2005 02:32 PM |
I'm not sure why Jeff's appointment is an issue for some of you. Maybe there is something that pre-dates my participation. In all my dealings with Jeff, I have found him to be friendly, knowledgeable, and certainly competent enough to lead the STAC. Is this about the car he drives, because if so, that's not a good reason?
| Orion | 02-03-2005 04:24 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER] Maybe there is something that pre-dates my participation. [/quOTE]
yes, partially, the wonderful world of the ST list will pretty much sums up the rest.
yes, partially, the wonderful world of the ST list will pretty much sums up the rest.
| CamaroFS34 | 02-03-2005 05:01 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Is this about the car he drives, because if so, that's not a good reason?[/QUOTE]
C'mon, Joel, look at the people "complaining." I would hope it's not about the car he drives! Personally, I had the same response regarding Ron Conrad's appointment to the STAC and Vince Bly's appointment years ago. It's also my reason for being disappointed about Hoelscher's appointment to the SEB, regardless of me putting in my name.
Of course, some people may have said the same things about me had I been voted "on" to the SEB island. ;)
Karen
[edit] two things : it's not necessarily that he's on the STAC that anyone has a problem with (he actually was already a member); it's the fact that he is now the [i]chair[/i] of the committee, a position with a little more oomph behind it.
also, the person who said that he may have been chosen (for the STAC in the first place) in light of no one else putting in their name is probably correct, sadly.
C'mon, Joel, look at the people "complaining." I would hope it's not about the car he drives! Personally, I had the same response regarding Ron Conrad's appointment to the STAC and Vince Bly's appointment years ago. It's also my reason for being disappointed about Hoelscher's appointment to the SEB, regardless of me putting in my name.
Of course, some people may have said the same things about me had I been voted "on" to the SEB island. ;)
Karen
[edit] two things : it's not necessarily that he's on the STAC that anyone has a problem with (he actually was already a member); it's the fact that he is now the [i]chair[/i] of the committee, a position with a little more oomph behind it.
also, the person who said that he may have been chosen (for the STAC in the first place) in light of no one else putting in their name is probably correct, sadly.
| AUTOwrXER | 02-04-2005 09:40 PM |
I'll wait for the full story off-list...
| tkm1 | 02-17-2005 07:00 PM |
While I can't speak for Jeff, I think some of you guys are letting your prejudice take over. Let me draw on some facts:
Jeff was appointed by the rest of the members on the SEB. There were nominations and everyone nominated him unanimously. I'm not even sure he stepped up and said that he originally wanted to do it--everyone kind of volunteered him. So he decided to do it after that.
What does this tell us? Regardless of how many events he may or may not run, his group of peers still thought he was the man for the job. And while I may not agree with him on all topics (I don't), I think he can see the larger picture and not worry about what car he may or may not drive.
I personally think it is rather short-sighted of a few of you to think he is the chair because he drives a Honduh. Please don't speculate or spread rumors that may not be true.
And let's not forget that part of the job of the STAC is to analyze the rules to look for fairness, consistancy and intrepretation. This does not necessarily mean you must run every event of the year to have a good grasp on this concept. I've seen people that have been autocrossing for years that still don't quite understand these concepts.
-Todd, driver of a Honduh or two. So does that make my posting any less meaningful?
Jeff was appointed by the rest of the members on the SEB. There were nominations and everyone nominated him unanimously. I'm not even sure he stepped up and said that he originally wanted to do it--everyone kind of volunteered him. So he decided to do it after that.
What does this tell us? Regardless of how many events he may or may not run, his group of peers still thought he was the man for the job. And while I may not agree with him on all topics (I don't), I think he can see the larger picture and not worry about what car he may or may not drive.
I personally think it is rather short-sighted of a few of you to think he is the chair because he drives a Honduh. Please don't speculate or spread rumors that may not be true.
And let's not forget that part of the job of the STAC is to analyze the rules to look for fairness, consistancy and intrepretation. This does not necessarily mean you must run every event of the year to have a good grasp on this concept. I've seen people that have been autocrossing for years that still don't quite understand these concepts.
-Todd, driver of a Honduh or two. So does that make my posting any less meaningful?
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