| natasha talarico | 06-14-2002 11:52 AM |
New Autocrosser needs help
I watched an event last year and perticipated in my first event this year now I am hooked. I am having a hard time trying to figure out what I can do to my car and not do to my car. I like toys. My first SCCA event I ran in STXL I was the only one. I did 4 local autocrosses at a local club and liked it so I started to modify the suspension. I had already lowered the car and that is the only thing that was done to it at the time so they let me run in STS since they did not have STX. I was warned then that just by lowering the car I was no longer in the stock class so I decided to go all out since I was not going to put the stock springs back on it just to autocross. I currently have on my car:
Whiteline lowering springs (what I started with)
New additions
Rota Subzeros 17"
225/45/17" Sumitomo HTRZ II tires
Cusco 21 mm front sway bar
Cusco 22 adjustable rear sway bar
Cusco Strut tower brace
kartboy short throw shifter
kartboy shifter bushings
MRT heavy duty rear mounts
MRT front & rear end links
Camber bolts for rear
Greddy boost gauge peak hold
Greddy EGT gauge peak hold
Greddy oil pressure gauge peak hold
Defi gauge pod
K&N filter in stock box
For my first event I took off the Boost controller and TurboXS RFL BOV because I think that I read somewhere that they were for a more experienced class alltogether.
I like the way my car handled with all that new stuff on it. Is there anything else that I can add to it and stay in STX. What about ESP can I run in that I want to stay far away from SM Can I put my boost controller and BOV back on?
Thanks alot for all your help in advance.
Natasha
Whiteline lowering springs (what I started with)
New additions
Rota Subzeros 17"
225/45/17" Sumitomo HTRZ II tires
Cusco 21 mm front sway bar
Cusco 22 adjustable rear sway bar
Cusco Strut tower brace
kartboy short throw shifter
kartboy shifter bushings
MRT heavy duty rear mounts
MRT front & rear end links
Camber bolts for rear
Greddy boost gauge peak hold
Greddy EGT gauge peak hold
Greddy oil pressure gauge peak hold
Defi gauge pod
K&N filter in stock box
For my first event I took off the Boost controller and TurboXS RFL BOV because I think that I read somewhere that they were for a more experienced class alltogether.
I like the way my car handled with all that new stuff on it. Is there anything else that I can add to it and stay in STX. What about ESP can I run in that I want to stay far away from SM Can I put my boost controller and BOV back on?
Thanks alot for all your help in advance.
Natasha
| Orion | 06-14-2002 12:14 PM |
Not boost control in STX or ESP. The BOV is illegal in both also, I know it is illegal for STX.
The things that will benefit you the most would be a header/up-pipe and a complete turbo-back. Now, you'll definitely want to research those carefully as they will affect your low to mid range torque and if you just slap any old thing up there you could hurt more than help.
I'm currently running in a local class we have that allows BOVs, Samco hoses and boost control (i have the TXS stage 1). I will be taking these things off as Divisionals start. My only problem is that I have the OEM exhaust except for the muffler. That's the one major place I will be taking care of soon.
The things that will benefit you the most would be a header/up-pipe and a complete turbo-back. Now, you'll definitely want to research those carefully as they will affect your low to mid range torque and if you just slap any old thing up there you could hurt more than help.
I'm currently running in a local class we have that allows BOVs, Samco hoses and boost control (i have the TXS stage 1). I will be taking these things off as Divisionals start. My only problem is that I have the OEM exhaust except for the muffler. That's the one major place I will be taking care of soon.
| natasha talarico | 06-14-2002 12:35 PM |
Ok I understand all but one thing that you are not saying but implying. I read alot about the WRX handling and people doing the suspension to make their car handle better. Am I done with that? Have I done all I need to do to the suspension to make the car handle well? are you telling me that now I need to concentrate on power within the allowable modifications in STX and ESP to have a competative car? I know that I launch very badly on the start so I have about a few seconds that I can shave off there so I am told. (I have a problem reving to 6000 and dumping the clutch sort of) I know that all these things come with experinece and I need seat time. I just want to learn in a car that handles well. I am a bit confused with the difference between STX and ESP. Can I enter my car in ESP the way it is or should I stick to STX if it stays around.
| Thug | 06-14-2002 01:28 PM |
You would probably benefit quite a bit from a race alignment and some better tires. But honestly, as a novice the best thing you can do is just drive, drive, drive, and leave your car fairly stock. Save your money and take a couple of driving schools if you can.
| ChrisW | 06-14-2002 01:32 PM |
natasha,
you can read this thread (wish it was a sticky)
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174189]autox rules thread[/URL]
Basically the key difference between STX and ESP are the limitations on what you can do to the engine and drive train.
You suspension setup is pretty good for either class. Once you have added an exhaust and engine management you will reach the limits of STX.
ESP allows intercooler and intake modifications, plus ESP is far more flexible on what you can do with the exhaust. (i.e run catless)
be careful what you do with the engine management. The turboXS kits are not STX or ESP legal because their kits have a boost control system built into the plug&play harness.
You can certainly run your WRX in ESP. But without the benifet of R compound tires, it is questionable how competitive you will be. I ran my (at the time) stock WRX in ESP (pre-STX) with 17" rims and managed 2nd place. Your results may vary, I got lucky:D
you can read this thread (wish it was a sticky)
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174189]autox rules thread[/URL]
Basically the key difference between STX and ESP are the limitations on what you can do to the engine and drive train.
You suspension setup is pretty good for either class. Once you have added an exhaust and engine management you will reach the limits of STX.
ESP allows intercooler and intake modifications, plus ESP is far more flexible on what you can do with the exhaust. (i.e run catless)
be careful what you do with the engine management. The turboXS kits are not STX or ESP legal because their kits have a boost control system built into the plug&play harness.
You can certainly run your WRX in ESP. But without the benifet of R compound tires, it is questionable how competitive you will be. I ran my (at the time) stock WRX in ESP (pre-STX) with 17" rims and managed 2nd place. Your results may vary, I got lucky:D
| natasha talarico | 06-14-2002 01:41 PM |
I understand and you are probally right but my car is not stock. I am not taking all of that stuff back off. I like the way the car looks lowered with 17" wheels so just those two things takes me out of any stock category. I am going to take your advice and drive drive drive I intended to to this all along. I just wanted to make sure that I have done all I need to do to the car suspension wise to make it handle better. My first four events my car would push out in bends and I would have to fight it. After I did all that stuff to my car I have no push it tucks in and does what I tell it to. It was very scary on my first run. I was expecting some push and almost overcompensated in anticipation of it coming but it never came. I am happy with the car the way it is and now I am ready to learn on a car that does not resist when I tell it to do somthing. I guess I can't blame my car it is driver error now. I would like for an experienced person to drive my car so that I can see how it should be driven. I tried to sign up for that Evolution school but it is full everytime I find one in my area I will keep on trying. So since I was in the process of doing everything that you said I guess I am on the right track. BTW what is a race alignment and where do I get one. Just in case I get the urge to spend some money on somthing.
Thanks Natasha
Thanks Natasha
| Orion | 06-14-2002 01:44 PM |
I did fail to miss the most important aspect and that is seat time. (thanks y2k4door! ;) )
I started AutoXing 1 year ago this month. We are fortunate in Houston to have decent enough weather to run all year long. I ran the first 3-4 event in Stock class with no changes other than a good alignment (max neg. camber all around and 0 toe front, slight toe out rear). Learning car control was easy as the RE92's had to be driven carefully or they would let you know in a hurry that you made a mistake.
From there I started with tires, springs, rear sway, and strut braces. To this day I've still got the same suspension mods and I am now quite competitive in my class. I will be getting the new koni inserts soon and possibly a front sway, but 90% of my results so far have come from seat time.
You have a good start, stay in STX to avoid the R Compound in ESP. Don't worry so much about what mods you need to do next. I suggest you find a Novice School (these REALLY help!) and don't let the competition aspect hinder your learning. You will be bad the first few events, don't let it bother you. Focus on improving your abilities and you'll be amazed at how quickly you'll improve. Of course even all the experienced racers will tell you the learning never stops, so take it easy on yourself or you'll get too frustrated & it won't be fun.
At the end of the day, it's all for FUN and nothing more... :D
I started AutoXing 1 year ago this month. We are fortunate in Houston to have decent enough weather to run all year long. I ran the first 3-4 event in Stock class with no changes other than a good alignment (max neg. camber all around and 0 toe front, slight toe out rear). Learning car control was easy as the RE92's had to be driven carefully or they would let you know in a hurry that you made a mistake.
From there I started with tires, springs, rear sway, and strut braces. To this day I've still got the same suspension mods and I am now quite competitive in my class. I will be getting the new koni inserts soon and possibly a front sway, but 90% of my results so far have come from seat time.
You have a good start, stay in STX to avoid the R Compound in ESP. Don't worry so much about what mods you need to do next. I suggest you find a Novice School (these REALLY help!) and don't let the competition aspect hinder your learning. You will be bad the first few events, don't let it bother you. Focus on improving your abilities and you'll be amazed at how quickly you'll improve. Of course even all the experienced racers will tell you the learning never stops, so take it easy on yourself or you'll get too frustrated & it won't be fun.
At the end of the day, it's all for FUN and nothing more... :D
| natasha talarico | 06-14-2002 01:45 PM |
ChrisW
I am reluctant to do anything to my engine at this time with Subaru voiding warranties. That is one of the reasons why I took off the BOV and Boost Controller. Truly now all my car has is suspension modifications. I am happy with that. I have money but not the kind of money it takes to fix engine problems.
Natasha
Natasha
| Orion | 06-14-2002 01:48 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by natasha talarico [/i]
[B] BTW what is a race alignment and where do I get one [/B][/QUOTE]
A good start would be:
Front. Camber: -1.0 to -1.5 deg
Rear Camber: -1.0 to -1.3 deg
Front Toe: 0
Rear Toe: slightly out
I took Whiteline's specs into an NTB in my area and had them do the 4 wheel alignment to my specs. It was $60 and I had to wavie the warranty (6 mos.) since it was a custom spec. I'm sure there are plenty of other places that will do a custom alignment and maybe even a lot cheaper than $60.
Good luck & have fun!
[B] BTW what is a race alignment and where do I get one [/B][/QUOTE]
A good start would be:
Front. Camber: -1.0 to -1.5 deg
Rear Camber: -1.0 to -1.3 deg
Front Toe: 0
Rear Toe: slightly out
I took Whiteline's specs into an NTB in my area and had them do the 4 wheel alignment to my specs. It was $60 and I had to wavie the warranty (6 mos.) since it was a custom spec. I'm sure there are plenty of other places that will do a custom alignment and maybe even a lot cheaper than $60.
Good luck & have fun!
| natasha talarico | 06-14-2002 01:59 PM |
I forgot I did do a novice school at the Northhills Sports Car Club earlier this year before my 4 local events and loved it and learned alot. It was only one day I will attend another one soon. I will be in the market for new tires after a few more autocrosses so I will be doing research for the best tires.
You are so right about not letting the competition hinder you too. My husband did two autocrosses and did terrible in his Mitsu 3000 gtvr4 He now refuses to autoX because he is not very receptive to learning.
Thanks
You are so right about not letting the competition hinder you too. My husband did two autocrosses and did terrible in his Mitsu 3000 gtvr4 He now refuses to autoX because he is not very receptive to learning.
Thanks
| Orion | 06-14-2002 02:04 PM |
You've got a great start going then! Most small AutoX schools are 1 day, ours was the day before an event so we were able to use the skills we learned right away. i had just picked up some Falken Azenis and some Rota Subzeros and gained 1 full second on my main competition and won my first event!:) Things are going to tighten up in my class though because I'm in an Unlimited class and I'm way down on HP. Most of the other guys realize suspension is what they are lacking so my days are numbered.:lol:
| natasha talarico | 06-14-2002 02:21 PM |
I will do that alignment tonight. My husband works for a ford garage and his family owns the building it used to be Talarico Ford they sold the franchise and leased out the building I need to rotate my wheels so I will get the alighnment at the same time.
Thanks alot.
Natasha
Thanks alot.
Natasha
| Crosser | 06-14-2002 02:24 PM |
Natasha,
You have a good start on modificaitons to your car. At this point I would not change/modify anything else.
The more you change the less you will know if it is helping or hurting you. You really need to spend time learning the limit of the car and how to control it there. You said the you took one of the local driving schools, which is great. I would suggest you look into the Evolution school [url]http://autocross.com/evolution/.[/url] This is the best school available right now for autocrossing. It is taught by National Champion and trophy winners. It is not unusual to come away from these classes and improve your times by several seconds. The different classes address all different aspects of autocrossing. Well worth the money.
The other thing I would suggest is the befriend one or several of the local hotshoes. Have them ride with you. have them drive co-drive with you and do ride alongs. This will show you how hard you can push your car and teach you the improtance of being a smooth driver.
Good Luck,
Eric Carman
BTW, you have to love women that like to autocross. I really need to find one. hehehe. Have fun.
You have a good start on modificaitons to your car. At this point I would not change/modify anything else.
The more you change the less you will know if it is helping or hurting you. You really need to spend time learning the limit of the car and how to control it there. You said the you took one of the local driving schools, which is great. I would suggest you look into the Evolution school [url]http://autocross.com/evolution/.[/url] This is the best school available right now for autocrossing. It is taught by National Champion and trophy winners. It is not unusual to come away from these classes and improve your times by several seconds. The different classes address all different aspects of autocrossing. Well worth the money.
The other thing I would suggest is the befriend one or several of the local hotshoes. Have them ride with you. have them drive co-drive with you and do ride alongs. This will show you how hard you can push your car and teach you the improtance of being a smooth driver.
Good Luck,
Eric Carman
BTW, you have to love women that like to autocross. I really need to find one. hehehe. Have fun.
| natasha talarico | 06-14-2002 03:00 PM |
crosser
I rode in a DS WRX with a Mr. Fine he is the one that told me about the Evolution school. I am going to keep trying to get into that school It fills up before I can get registered. His wife Kim is a good driver too but just driving with him on one run I realized that I was doing it all wrong he was so smooth. My ride was in a DS WRX not my modded WRX so I need to get someone experienced to drive my car because I am sure that it will handle better. I am school hunting.
Natasha
Natasha
| Dussander | 06-14-2002 05:20 PM |
I would actually assume that Larry's car would handle better. He has dialed it in very well. Given equal tires, you may have an advantage.
| natasha talarico | 06-15-2002 01:15 PM |
Are you telling me that doing all that suspension stuff on my car to stop the pushing actually hurt my car. Are you telling me that my car now probally handles worse than a stock WRX now.
| Crosser | 06-15-2002 01:42 PM |
Yeah, I know Larry and Kim very well. I run with them at the Pro Solo's. Larry is one of the best to learn from. Listen to any advice he has to offer and you will learn a lot.
What Dussander was trying to say is that Larry has been running the WRX for over a year now and has Tested and tuned the suspension on the car with custom valved adjustable shocks, alignment, tires,tire pressures, driving technique, etc. All with-in the stock classification to maximize the car.
While you are just getting started. With the changes you make, you have to adjust the car wo that you are maximizing what you have on the car. By changing the springs, shocks, swaybars, strut tower bars, etc. You change the way the weight transfers in the car. If you do that incorrectly, you CAN make the car handle worse than it is stock. That is why I suggested in my previous post to hold off on making more changes until you see the results of what you have done to the car now has. You also need to adjust the car to account for these items. What you are trying to do is maximize the the contact patchs between the tires and the road surface. There are tons of books on this topic alone. This is why I also suggested finding an EXPERIENCED person to help you set the car up and teach you how adjustments you make to the car effect it performance. Being new, you more than likely will not be able to differentiate the difference in the feel of the car that small adjsutments make. That is where an experienced person can help.
Good luck,
Eric
What Dussander was trying to say is that Larry has been running the WRX for over a year now and has Tested and tuned the suspension on the car with custom valved adjustable shocks, alignment, tires,tire pressures, driving technique, etc. All with-in the stock classification to maximize the car.
While you are just getting started. With the changes you make, you have to adjust the car wo that you are maximizing what you have on the car. By changing the springs, shocks, swaybars, strut tower bars, etc. You change the way the weight transfers in the car. If you do that incorrectly, you CAN make the car handle worse than it is stock. That is why I suggested in my previous post to hold off on making more changes until you see the results of what you have done to the car now has. You also need to adjust the car to account for these items. What you are trying to do is maximize the the contact patchs between the tires and the road surface. There are tons of books on this topic alone. This is why I also suggested finding an EXPERIENCED person to help you set the car up and teach you how adjustments you make to the car effect it performance. Being new, you more than likely will not be able to differentiate the difference in the feel of the car that small adjsutments make. That is where an experienced person can help.
Good luck,
Eric
| natasha talarico | 06-15-2002 03:59 PM |
I understand now that you put it that way. I will look for someone experienced like you say. Does this experienced person have to own a WRX or even have ever driven a WRX to give me advice. It seems that the reason why I am into as much money as I am into now is because I would have a complaint about somthing the car is doing and someone would suggest well do this to fix it. Now I have all this stuff on my car and am learning how to drive it. There has been only one SoloII event for my region and there was only 2 WRX's. I might have a hard time finding someone that knows about the car to get advice from. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do in my case.
Thanks
Natasha
Thanks
Natasha
| Opie | 06-15-2002 04:46 PM |
[QUOTE]I have a problem reving to 6000 and dumping the clutch sort of[/QUOTE] :eek:
Whoa, you trying to break your tranny? Try reving to 4,000 RPM then quickly slipping the clutch out, not just dumping it!
And listen to what the other guys are saying, more seat time, and advice from fellow experienced autocrossers if very cheap & beneficial. I've received tons of advice from many people; Danny Sheilds, Elliot Harvey, Eric Kremelmeyer, Eric Carmen, to name a few. Every time I decide to listen to what they are telling me...my driving improves. If you have some experienced drivers in your local region, tag along with them while they are walking the course, look at what they are looking at, listen to what they have to say, you'll be amazed at the tips you will pick up. Which line to take & why, where to brake, where to accelerate, etc.
And a driving school never hurt anybody! Hopefully I will be visiting an Evolution class before Topeka!
Whoa, you trying to break your tranny? Try reving to 4,000 RPM then quickly slipping the clutch out, not just dumping it!
And listen to what the other guys are saying, more seat time, and advice from fellow experienced autocrossers if very cheap & beneficial. I've received tons of advice from many people; Danny Sheilds, Elliot Harvey, Eric Kremelmeyer, Eric Carmen, to name a few. Every time I decide to listen to what they are telling me...my driving improves. If you have some experienced drivers in your local region, tag along with them while they are walking the course, look at what they are looking at, listen to what they have to say, you'll be amazed at the tips you will pick up. Which line to take & why, where to brake, where to accelerate, etc.
And a driving school never hurt anybody! Hopefully I will be visiting an Evolution class before Topeka!
| natasha talarico | 06-15-2002 05:19 PM |
Thanks everyone for all of the help. The information given to me the past two days have been invaluable.
Natasha
Natasha
| Crosser | 06-16-2002 09:10 PM |
Natasha,
While having an experienced driver that is familiar with a WRX is beneficial, it is not absolutely necessary. They important thing is they understand the general physicis of it and that the understand what effect each part and the adjustments of each part make on the way the car will handle. I would suggest you ask Larry (very nicely;) ) to see if he would take a run in your car and provide you with some inputs on setting the car and see if are moving in the right direction. He can also help to provide you suggestions on fine (no pun intended) tunning the car to get everything out of it. Really, what you should be concerned with is getting the car to a neutral handlling state and leave it so that you can work on your driving. Once you improve a driver, and the car is holding your porformance back, instead of you holding its performance back, then you can really start tweaking the car to get that last bit of speed out of it.
As far as people giving you advice on this and that to add to the car. Be selective in who you listen to. And 9 times out of 10 for a new person to the sport it is driver error that needs to be fixed before the car.
I hope this has helped some. The real important this is don't be scared to ask and remember to have fun.
Eric Carman
BTW, don't worry about launching at 6000 rpm. Most local events are set up that this will really not help them much. Just get a good clean quick take off and worry about being smooth and driving well. The big launches are really more part of the Pro Solo events.
While having an experienced driver that is familiar with a WRX is beneficial, it is not absolutely necessary. They important thing is they understand the general physicis of it and that the understand what effect each part and the adjustments of each part make on the way the car will handle. I would suggest you ask Larry (very nicely;) ) to see if he would take a run in your car and provide you with some inputs on setting the car and see if are moving in the right direction. He can also help to provide you suggestions on fine (no pun intended) tunning the car to get everything out of it. Really, what you should be concerned with is getting the car to a neutral handlling state and leave it so that you can work on your driving. Once you improve a driver, and the car is holding your porformance back, instead of you holding its performance back, then you can really start tweaking the car to get that last bit of speed out of it.
As far as people giving you advice on this and that to add to the car. Be selective in who you listen to. And 9 times out of 10 for a new person to the sport it is driver error that needs to be fixed before the car.
I hope this has helped some. The real important this is don't be scared to ask and remember to have fun.
Eric Carman
BTW, don't worry about launching at 6000 rpm. Most local events are set up that this will really not help them much. Just get a good clean quick take off and worry about being smooth and driving well. The big launches are really more part of the Pro Solo events.
| natasha talarico | 06-17-2002 08:48 AM |
Thank you
I plan to do exactly what you say. If and when I see Larry and Kim at any events I will be sure to ask him to drive with me since I have done all this work on it. Larry did ride with me on my first event and he said he wasn't going to say anything until after my run. Well he had to talk during it because I was doing it so wrong that is when he let me hop in the car with him. From that day on I was determined to learn how to drive as smooth as that. He and his wife are very nice people. I am not afraid to ask questions ever. I figure that is the way that you learn. I do try to walk the course at least once with Kent Rafferty he is a very good driver in our area He also was at the few events that were not SCCA that I perticipated in. His wife Karen is actually the one that first asked me why was I sitting on the sidelines watching my husband drive my car. Why wasn't I driving it myself. I told her that women don't drive, so she took me for a ride in her SM Grand Sport it was all over. Kent has helped me alot pointing out and suggesting what line to take and what is important on the course and what is there to confuse you. I am like a sponge I learn and take direction, criticism very well. I am embarrassed by nothing and I will try anything logical and sometimes illogical. Thanks again for your help.
Natasha
Natasha
| Crosser | 06-17-2002 09:56 AM |
Yeah, Kent and Karen are great too. I am trying to get them to come down and run an event in DC with us one weekend. Kent is another that you might want to ask drive the car for a lap and see where it stands. Like I said have them help you get the car solid point where it is not doing anything really crazy (heavy under or oversteer, etc.) then just soak up the knowledge on learning to drive it. All of the people you have mentioned have HUGE amounts of knowledge. You can not go wrong listening to any advice they have to give.
Glad I could help and good luck beating your husband. hehehe.
Glad I could help and good luck beating your husband. hehehe.
| natasha talarico | 06-17-2002 04:45 PM |
This sport is great. I am sure that everyone is aware that I need to get into that Evolution School. I think All the of schools on calender are far from me or filled. I got the thinking (oh no there she goes with that thinking) We have a new facility called Beaver Run Motorsports complex in Pennsylvania that can host a School so I think that instead of crying about not being able to attend the school bring the school closer to me. I think that I set in motion for a school to be run there.
Natasha
btw- i guess i really want to learn.
Natasha
btw- i guess i really want to learn.
| jmott | 06-17-2002 09:03 PM |
the car handles well stock with good tires and adjustable shocks.
youve done far more than you need to.
FORGET about mods for a while. practice driving for about 6 months.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by natasha talarico [/i]
[B]Ok I understand all but one thing that you are not saying but implying. I read alot about the WRX handling and people doing the suspension to make their car handle better. Am I done with that? Have I done all I need to do to the suspension to make the car handle well? are you telling me that now I need to concentrate on power within the allowable modifications in STX and ESP to have a competative car? I know that I launch very badly on the start so I have about a few seconds that I can shave off there so I am told. (I have a problem reving to 6000 and dumping the clutch sort of) I know that all these things come with experinece and I need seat time. I just want to learn in a car that handles well. I am a bit confused with the difference between STX and ESP. Can I enter my car in ESP the way it is or should I stick to STX if it stays around. [/B][/QUOTE]
youve done far more than you need to.
FORGET about mods for a while. practice driving for about 6 months.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by natasha talarico [/i]
[B]Ok I understand all but one thing that you are not saying but implying. I read alot about the WRX handling and people doing the suspension to make their car handle better. Am I done with that? Have I done all I need to do to the suspension to make the car handle well? are you telling me that now I need to concentrate on power within the allowable modifications in STX and ESP to have a competative car? I know that I launch very badly on the start so I have about a few seconds that I can shave off there so I am told. (I have a problem reving to 6000 and dumping the clutch sort of) I know that all these things come with experinece and I need seat time. I just want to learn in a car that handles well. I am a bit confused with the difference between STX and ESP. Can I enter my car in ESP the way it is or should I stick to STX if it stays around. [/B][/QUOTE]
| Crosser | 06-17-2002 11:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by natasha talarico [/i]
[B]This sport is great. I am sure that everyone is aware that I need to get into that Evolution School. I think All the of schools on calender are far from me or filled. I got the thinking (oh no there she goes with that thinking) We have a new facility called Beaver Run Motorsports complex in Pennsylvania that can host a School so I think that instead of crying about not being able to attend the school bring the school closer to me. I think that I set in motion for a school to be run there.
Natasha
btw- i guess i really want to learn. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, Jean (the owner of the Evolution School) is always looking to try to accomidate people. She is a great person and a dear friend that will bend over backwards to help. Glad to hear you are taking the bull by the horns. Good luck.
EC
[B]This sport is great. I am sure that everyone is aware that I need to get into that Evolution School. I think All the of schools on calender are far from me or filled. I got the thinking (oh no there she goes with that thinking) We have a new facility called Beaver Run Motorsports complex in Pennsylvania that can host a School so I think that instead of crying about not being able to attend the school bring the school closer to me. I think that I set in motion for a school to be run there.
Natasha
btw- i guess i really want to learn. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, Jean (the owner of the Evolution School) is always looking to try to accomidate people. She is a great person and a dear friend that will bend over backwards to help. Glad to hear you are taking the bull by the horns. Good luck.
EC
| zzyzx | 06-18-2002 12:05 AM |
It looks like you have some very good locals to learn from. Focus on that. As to sorting your WRX, only take advice from another WRX owner/autocrossers.
The problem, however, is finding a WRX owner that competes seriously and has done STX-style mods. You'll probably have to look to the SM crowd since STX is a newer class. Better yet is the STS crowd of Impreza 2.5 RS guys. All the SM/STS suspension mods are legal in STX, so you could follow their lead. One example is Trey Cobb's project Conebasher WRX ( [url]http://www.cobbtuning.com[/url] ).
I've already seen some stuff here on alignment that I personally would consider misinformation.
There is an STS/STX list on Yahoo!, check it out and post questions there about suspension setup. It's a smaller group of experienced autox people.
[url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/streettouring/[/url]
- Steve
The problem, however, is finding a WRX owner that competes seriously and has done STX-style mods. You'll probably have to look to the SM crowd since STX is a newer class. Better yet is the STS crowd of Impreza 2.5 RS guys. All the SM/STS suspension mods are legal in STX, so you could follow their lead. One example is Trey Cobb's project Conebasher WRX ( [url]http://www.cobbtuning.com[/url] ).
I've already seen some stuff here on alignment that I personally would consider misinformation.
There is an STS/STX list on Yahoo!, check it out and post questions there about suspension setup. It's a smaller group of experienced autox people.
[url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/streettouring/[/url]
- Steve
| natasha talarico | 06-18-2002 09:31 AM |
zzyzx - I look at all the websites that you listed. I am a sponge for information. I believe knowledge is power.
jmott - I hear what you are saying. I have this slight problem it is like a sickness. When I see somthing that they make for my car and I want it I buy it. Before I decided that I was going to try autocross I was all about looks so I lowered the car and put bigger wheels on it like most people do. Well since I drive my car everyday and need to look good I got put is a class that I feel that my car would not be competative since most people know what they are doing. Since I was starting out in STX from the getgo I decided to totally do the suspension so that I could then learn how to drive it. I guess that my approach was wrong but I was kind of stuck. Most people would realize that they made a mistake dug the hole that was not too deep so it is easier to get out of it. Well I am not like most people I decided to make the hole wider throw in a casket climb in it and bury myself. I figure that if i become a good driver which I am determined to be it will be a great accomplishment to look back at the hole I dug myself out of.
jmott - I hear what you are saying. I have this slight problem it is like a sickness. When I see somthing that they make for my car and I want it I buy it. Before I decided that I was going to try autocross I was all about looks so I lowered the car and put bigger wheels on it like most people do. Well since I drive my car everyday and need to look good I got put is a class that I feel that my car would not be competative since most people know what they are doing. Since I was starting out in STX from the getgo I decided to totally do the suspension so that I could then learn how to drive it. I guess that my approach was wrong but I was kind of stuck. Most people would realize that they made a mistake dug the hole that was not too deep so it is easier to get out of it. Well I am not like most people I decided to make the hole wider throw in a casket climb in it and bury myself. I figure that if i become a good driver which I am determined to be it will be a great accomplishment to look back at the hole I dug myself out of.
| natasha talarico | 06-25-2002 01:31 PM |
OK Kent Rafferty Drove My Car.
This is what he had to say. First I have to tell you that he has never driven a WRX before mine so he did not know what to expect. My best time that night was a 38 on that course and he gets into my car one that he has never driven before and cranks out a 34. He did two runs one to get a feel for the car and the other he pushed the car hard. (I did not mind) He said that the car does not turn around like he would want it to. Am i right in assuming that it means the rear is not loose enough? He also said that the hearder he pushed the car the more it pushed. He said that I had alot of potential. After he did two runs he asked me to do two runs and I ran a 36. Two seconds is alot to me. I have my rear swaybar on the middle setting should I move it. Should I put the stock front swaybar back on is the cusco one too big.
Thanks Natasha
Thanks Natasha
| TheWRX | 06-25-2002 03:50 PM |
The WRX with (close to) stock suspension tends to push if you enter a tight corner too fast. Apart from wheels/tires, I only have a rear swaybar set to 22mm, my front bar is stock. My car still pushes badly when I overdrive tight turns, but it feels fairly neutral in fast turns. In the long run (end of the season) I'll probably do a major suspension upgrade, but for now I'm just dealing with it.
One thing is obviously not to enter the tight corners too fast. If you do feel the car pushing, get off the throttle slightly, and open up the steering wheel somewhat (my natural instinct was to steer in even more, which just makes the situation worse). How smoothly you steer must also be important. When instructors were driving my car at Evolution school, I noticed that they didn't get nearly as much understeer as I did, and I could have sworn that they were carrying at least as much speed into the turns. My only guess is that they were steering into the turns more gradually, while I was yanking around the wheel too quickly.
As you saw, even if the car isn't perfectly balanced, a good driver can still make it go fast. For me (this is my first season), I mainly want to work on my driving skills. So I look at dealing with understeer as one of the skills I'm working on. I'm improving nicely, I won my first trophy at a local SCCA event a couple of weeks ago, and won my first (non-SCCA) event on Sunday. :D
One thing is obviously not to enter the tight corners too fast. If you do feel the car pushing, get off the throttle slightly, and open up the steering wheel somewhat (my natural instinct was to steer in even more, which just makes the situation worse). How smoothly you steer must also be important. When instructors were driving my car at Evolution school, I noticed that they didn't get nearly as much understeer as I did, and I could have sworn that they were carrying at least as much speed into the turns. My only guess is that they were steering into the turns more gradually, while I was yanking around the wheel too quickly.
As you saw, even if the car isn't perfectly balanced, a good driver can still make it go fast. For me (this is my first season), I mainly want to work on my driving skills. So I look at dealing with understeer as one of the skills I'm working on. I'm improving nicely, I won my first trophy at a local SCCA event a couple of weeks ago, and won my first (non-SCCA) event on Sunday. :D
| zzyzx | 06-25-2002 06:35 PM |
Our cars will generally push under power due to AWD and a rear LSD.
However, yes, I'd either switch back to the stock front sway bar or simply disconnect the endlinks from your CUSCO bar (no sway bar...), and run that at the next autox. You definately do not need a larger front bar, period.
- Steve
However, yes, I'd either switch back to the stock front sway bar or simply disconnect the endlinks from your CUSCO bar (no sway bar...), and run that at the next autox. You definately do not need a larger front bar, period.
- Steve
| ChrisW | 06-26-2002 10:54 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx [/i]
[B]Our cars will generally push under power due to AWD and a rear LSD.
However, yes, I'd either switch back to the stock front sway bar or simply disconnect the endlinks from your CUSCO bar (no sway bar...), and run that at the next autox. You definately do not need a larger front bar, period.
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
I totally agree. I switched back to my stock front bar, removing my 22mm whiteline unit.
The change was pretty good, but the only downside is without the bar, the inside front wheel breaks loose under hard acceleration out of the corners. Will I keep it that way? don't know. I am still tuning the suspension.
[B]Our cars will generally push under power due to AWD and a rear LSD.
However, yes, I'd either switch back to the stock front sway bar or simply disconnect the endlinks from your CUSCO bar (no sway bar...), and run that at the next autox. You definately do not need a larger front bar, period.
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
I totally agree. I switched back to my stock front bar, removing my 22mm whiteline unit.
The change was pretty good, but the only downside is without the bar, the inside front wheel breaks loose under hard acceleration out of the corners. Will I keep it that way? don't know. I am still tuning the suspension.
| natasha talarico | 06-26-2002 11:07 AM |
Question?? I have the rear swaybar set in the middle(What would that be 22/20/18?) Can I just set it on the stiffest setting and leave the front alone? Will that produce the same effect? What is the term turn around mean. Kent said that that my car needs more turn around???? I assumed that it needs to be looser in the rear is that correct?
thanks Natasha
thanks Natasha
| ChrisW | 06-26-2002 11:26 AM |
natasha,
I would try to set your rear swaybar to it's stiffest setting before swaping out your front bar.
FWIW, I have my rear bar on the stiffest setting already. Still too much power on understeer.
I would try to set your rear swaybar to it's stiffest setting before swaping out your front bar.
FWIW, I have my rear bar on the stiffest setting already. Still too much power on understeer.
| natasha talarico | 06-26-2002 11:30 AM |
Which way is stiffer the hole towards the front of the car or the hole towards the rear of the car and what would that setting be called if it is a 22mm adj. what would the stiffest setting be.
Thanks Natasha
Thanks Natasha
| zzyzx | 06-26-2002 11:35 AM |
The hole nearest the end of the bar is the lowest (18mm).
Keep these two things in mind 1) ultimate grip, 2) balance
The bigger the bar in the back, the more closely your car will respond to surface imperfections like a car with a live axel. Sawybars are _not_ the solution, they are the problem.
I would suggest you change your rear to 18mm and disconnect your front bar. Run an event on this setup. See how it feels.
If you up the rear bar, you sacrifice #1 for #2.
- Steve
Keep these two things in mind 1) ultimate grip, 2) balance
The bigger the bar in the back, the more closely your car will respond to surface imperfections like a car with a live axel. Sawybars are _not_ the solution, they are the problem.
I would suggest you change your rear to 18mm and disconnect your front bar. Run an event on this setup. See how it feels.
If you up the rear bar, you sacrifice #1 for #2.
- Steve
| natasha talarico | 06-26-2002 11:44 AM |
I posted this question in another forum can someone tell me the defenitions of these terms. In dummy language!!
Understeer
Pushing
Front end plowing
car needs a better turn around.
bodyroll
What I think they mean and what they actually mean may be totally different. Is understeer the opposite of pushing or can you have both problems at once can someone give me an introductory course in autocross/suspension language with any other terms that I have missed.
Thanks Natasha
Understeer
Pushing
Front end plowing
car needs a better turn around.
bodyroll
What I think they mean and what they actually mean may be totally different. Is understeer the opposite of pushing or can you have both problems at once can someone give me an introductory course in autocross/suspension language with any other terms that I have missed.
Thanks Natasha
| zzyzx | 06-26-2002 08:15 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by natasha talarico [/i]
[B]I posted this question in another forum can someone tell me the defenitions of these terms. In dummy language!!
Understeer
Pushing
Front end plowing
car needs a better turn around.
bodyroll
[/B][/QUOTE]
Understeer = Push = Front end plowing = car needs a better turn around.
Understeer is when you turn the steering wheel and the car does turn but rather "plows" straight ahead. Most understeer comes from drivers going into turns too fast. All car are built with understeer because it's safer to deal with than oversteer.
A combination of AWD and a rear limited slip diff will inherently produce understeer while on the gas. Don't ever expect to "floor it" into a turn in your Subie and actually make the turn. You'll plow right through the cones on the outside of the turn.
- Steve
[B]I posted this question in another forum can someone tell me the defenitions of these terms. In dummy language!!
Understeer
Pushing
Front end plowing
car needs a better turn around.
bodyroll
[/B][/QUOTE]
Understeer = Push = Front end plowing = car needs a better turn around.
Understeer is when you turn the steering wheel and the car does turn but rather "plows" straight ahead. Most understeer comes from drivers going into turns too fast. All car are built with understeer because it's safer to deal with than oversteer.
A combination of AWD and a rear limited slip diff will inherently produce understeer while on the gas. Don't ever expect to "floor it" into a turn in your Subie and actually make the turn. You'll plow right through the cones on the outside of the turn.
- Steve
| natasha talarico | 06-27-2002 08:17 AM |
Thank you very much for breaking that down for me. I was thinking that all of these things were different problems not a chain reaction steming from a problem.
Thanks
Natasha
Thanks
Natasha
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét