| Layman | 10-08-2001 09:16 PM |
Yet another rollover at an autocross...
It looks to me that the course didn't have sufficient runoff, but I wasn't there, so that's just my opinion from seeing the tape. I'm glad the guy is okay, but occasions like this don't help us gain faith with insurance companies and site owners.
[URL=http://neon.cc.iastate.edu/Movies/untitled.mpg]SVT Contour rollover[/URL]
[URL=http://neon.cc.iastate.edu/Movies/untitled.mpg]SVT Contour rollover[/URL]
| Layman | 10-08-2001 09:23 PM |
And here is a link to the site they were running at.
[URL=http://www.bestofiowa.com/ia-intl-raceway/index.html]It's a go cart track, for God's sake[/URL]
I'm still somewhat of a newbie at autocross, only having participated for 3 years, but it seems to me that having it on a track like that defeats the purpose of an autocross. If autocross didn't have a margin of safety intigrated by large runoffs on parking lots and air fields, then why would anybody autocross instead of taking their car to a track?
[URL=http://www.bestofiowa.com/ia-intl-raceway/index.html]It's a go cart track, for God's sake[/URL]
I'm still somewhat of a newbie at autocross, only having participated for 3 years, but it seems to me that having it on a track like that defeats the purpose of an autocross. If autocross didn't have a margin of safety intigrated by large runoffs on parking lots and air fields, then why would anybody autocross instead of taking their car to a track?
| KC | 10-08-2001 09:28 PM |
Very good concept for a newbie to grasp Layman. If there's a 1st rule to auto-xing, it's safety.
Looking at the video, there was NO area for safe Run-Off.
For those that are bandwidth challenged, the contour goes off course, off the pavement, maybe by 10 or 20 feet of grass as run-off, hits a tire wall, and flips over a couple times to the other side of the tire wall.
Sorry, not safe. I feel sorry if this is the only place that that region can auto-x on.
--kC
Looking at the video, there was NO area for safe Run-Off.
For those that are bandwidth challenged, the contour goes off course, off the pavement, maybe by 10 or 20 feet of grass as run-off, hits a tire wall, and flips over a couple times to the other side of the tire wall.
Sorry, not safe. I feel sorry if this is the only place that that region can auto-x on.
--kC
| ChrisW | 10-08-2001 09:53 PM |
after looking at the video, there was clearly less than 10 feet from the edge of the tire barrier to the edge of the pavement. It's probably enough for a kart, but certainly not a car....
too bad to. If they had more run off room, it looks like that would be kind of cool...
too bad to. If they had more run off room, it looks like that would be kind of cool...
| WagonMonster | 10-08-2001 10:22 PM |
That was awful!
What freaking morons thought this was a good place for Auto-X!?!?!
This couldn't have been any kind of sanctioned event.
What freaking morons thought this was a good place for Auto-X!?!?!
This couldn't have been any kind of sanctioned event.
| ChrisW | 10-08-2001 10:27 PM |
From what I understand, it's quite popular.
No cones to hit, err umm, yeah..... or to setup for that matter.... yeah yeah that's the ticket..
[edit]
here, check this link out....
[url]http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo1/index.html[/url]
No cones to hit, err umm, yeah..... or to setup for that matter.... yeah yeah that's the ticket..
[edit]
here, check this link out....
[url]http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo1/index.html[/url]
| Layman | 10-08-2001 10:31 PM |
Yep. It's run by the Des Moines Valley Region SCCA. From what I have gathered on another board, there are at least two other venues used by the region.
| remarcable | 10-08-2001 11:26 PM |
There is nowhere near enough run-off room for a straightaway that long coming out of a turn.
Grass does not good run-off room make. Not unless you have plenty of it. Slip 'N Slide!
Grass does not good run-off room make. Not unless you have plenty of it. Slip 'N Slide!
| Brad B. | 10-09-2001 09:03 AM |
That is sad... I really feel for that guy. Looks like a really shoddy tirewall too. The SVT Contour is one of my favorite ride... a real shame. :(
| Jeff 2.5RS | 10-09-2001 11:32 AM |
I thought all SCCA auto-x courses were required a minumum amount of runoff room for each part of the course, even the straights? (like 10-15feet)
| Fido | 10-09-2001 12:35 PM |
Ouch
| subachad | 10-09-2001 02:02 PM |
In Bremerton my friend actually put my car in a creek at an autocross. This was about 2 weeks after I bought it.
The track had plenty of runnoff, but he was going about 60+ (3rd gear turn) and the stock suspension basically gave way and the car slid sidways on the wet pavement for about 20 feet, then another 20 feet through the mud, through some bushes, and came to rest in a small creek. The only damage consisted of some scratches that I still have on my hood and a broken driving light. Total repair bill was $12.
:eek:
There was almost no room for error on that track. That guy was barely off course. How sad :(
Chad
93 1.8T
The track had plenty of runnoff, but he was going about 60+ (3rd gear turn) and the stock suspension basically gave way and the car slid sidways on the wet pavement for about 20 feet, then another 20 feet through the mud, through some bushes, and came to rest in a small creek. The only damage consisted of some scratches that I still have on my hood and a broken driving light. Total repair bill was $12.
:eek:
There was almost no room for error on that track. That guy was barely off course. How sad :(
Chad
93 1.8T
| wrxwannabe | 10-09-2001 02:03 PM |
They do, in the rule book, not sure of the exacts but its 25' to any hard obstruction.
So 10' just don't cut it and is in violation of the rules.
Later
Eric
So 10' just don't cut it and is in violation of the rules.
Later
Eric
| STiShawn | 10-09-2001 03:14 PM |
THAT is just plain stupid. Did you notice the people in the infield on blankets...no corner workers who knows what other rules they violated......its a pitty, I hope the driver was ok.:eek:
| 10th Warrior | 10-09-2001 03:45 PM |
there were no corners to work :monkey:
although, i suppose there should have been people with red flags.
that just sucks.
although, i suppose there should have been people with red flags.
that just sucks.
| 10th Warrior | 10-09-2001 03:46 PM |
[QUOTE]I hope the driver was ok.
[/QUOTE]
watch the vid, he's pissed off but ok. of course, if i was him, i'd be chasing down the saftey steward and making him/her look like my car :eek:
[/QUOTE]
watch the vid, he's pissed off but ok. of course, if i was him, i'd be chasing down the saftey steward and making him/her look like my car :eek:
| Tkacik | 10-09-2001 03:48 PM |
Wow, that guy was pissed, but can you blame him? His car was trashed. I didnt see any run off room at all, just a ditch next to the track.
| GarySheehan | 10-09-2001 03:57 PM |
10th Warrior,
You'd be chasing down the safety stewart only AFTER you crashed your car?
Anyone on the track should be aware of the risks. Everyone should be responsible for their own safety. Check the track out. If you don't like it, don't run it.
Gary
You'd be chasing down the safety stewart only AFTER you crashed your car?
Anyone on the track should be aware of the risks. Everyone should be responsible for their own safety. Check the track out. If you don't like it, don't run it.
Gary
| subachad | 10-09-2001 04:05 PM |
I agree with Gary, that's why I won't rallycross at Tombstone.
Does anyone else notice that it's always the Contours that seem to be rolling over??? :confused:
Chad
93 1.8T
Does anyone else notice that it's always the Contours that seem to be rolling over??? :confused:
Chad
93 1.8T
| Layman | 10-09-2001 04:24 PM |
Right Gary.
I won't run on the Jefferson circuit at Summit Point anymore, even though I never had a problem AND it's fun as hell. The last event there had 4 (!) accidents. It may be a fluke, but I'm not willing to bet my car on it.
I won't run on the Jefferson circuit at Summit Point anymore, even though I never had a problem AND it's fun as hell. The last event there had 4 (!) accidents. It may be a fluke, but I'm not willing to bet my car on it.
| LUME | 10-09-2001 05:05 PM |
That was a dangerous course... everybody agrees.
However, there is nobody to blame but the driver. He was driving, He entered, He weighed the dangers....
I'm pretty sure that if I keep autoxing and TT'ing, that I WILL crash. Hopefully Its a crash like this... where I can walk away. Motorsports are dangerous and nobody is forcing you to do. Even if there are other drivers on the course, you are the only person responsible for your safety.....
---Roy
However, there is nobody to blame but the driver. He was driving, He entered, He weighed the dangers....
I'm pretty sure that if I keep autoxing and TT'ing, that I WILL crash. Hopefully Its a crash like this... where I can walk away. Motorsports are dangerous and nobody is forcing you to do. Even if there are other drivers on the course, you are the only person responsible for your safety.....
---Roy
| Layman | 10-09-2001 07:36 PM |
Lume,
If you plan on wrecking at an autocross, do us all a favor and stop autocrossing. Nobody needs some jackass out on the track who thinks it's okay to wreck. Like I said above, it hurts the sport in numerous ways.
Yes, the driver shares a lot of the blame, but an autocross is often a drivers first form of motorsports participation. You can't expect a novice to know when they are pushing the limits of both their car and the track. Then entire purpose of an autocross is to learn those limits SAFELY.
If you think it's cool to crash, then go somewhere else to play demolition derby. We don't need you at SCCA events.
If you plan on wrecking at an autocross, do us all a favor and stop autocrossing. Nobody needs some jackass out on the track who thinks it's okay to wreck. Like I said above, it hurts the sport in numerous ways.
Yes, the driver shares a lot of the blame, but an autocross is often a drivers first form of motorsports participation. You can't expect a novice to know when they are pushing the limits of both their car and the track. Then entire purpose of an autocross is to learn those limits SAFELY.
If you think it's cool to crash, then go somewhere else to play demolition derby. We don't need you at SCCA events.
| Dobes | 10-09-2001 08:08 PM |
Easy there Layman, maybe you want to reread LUME's post again. I don't think he is planning on crashing, he just realizes that motorsports can be dangerous and most people who spend a lot of time racing are much more likely to have an accident.
JD
JD
| Tony | 10-09-2001 08:12 PM |
Layman,
Hehe, can't believe I'm defending the crochetey old man of the i-club (LUME) but I'm betting he is refering to the time trial aspect rather than autox.
Tony
Hehe, can't believe I'm defending the crochetey old man of the i-club (LUME) but I'm betting he is refering to the time trial aspect rather than autox.
Tony
| ColinL | 10-09-2001 08:33 PM |
if you drive near or at your limits, you'll loose control at some point. unforseen events, fatigue, loss of concentration, overconfidence are the most common.
not that i've dumped a car on a track, but I've ditched plenty of motorcycles. I think we've all lost it at an autocross, it's too easy with all that frenetic sawing at the wheel. a normal autocross though has much lower consequences, like usually nothing worse than flat-spotted tires.
not that i've dumped a car on a track, but I've ditched plenty of motorcycles. I think we've all lost it at an autocross, it's too easy with all that frenetic sawing at the wheel. a normal autocross though has much lower consequences, like usually nothing worse than flat-spotted tires.
| Layman | 10-09-2001 09:05 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by LUME [/i]
[B]I'm pretty sure that if I keep autoxing and TT'ing, that I WILL crash.[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, I've lost it PLENTY of times on an autocross course, but the day that I anticipate eventually wrecking is the day I stop participating. The entire point of Solo events is safe fun with your car at the limit. If you wreck, either the course was poorly designed, you were driving out of control, or you car shouldn't have been on the course. A flippant attitude about safety at SCCA amature events will only help kill off sponsoring clubs and available venues.
I may have been a bit harsh in my reply, but God knows we don't need some kid (or insurance agent) reading Lume's post and thinking that autocrossing is reckless and wild. I stand by what I said.
[B]I'm pretty sure that if I keep autoxing and TT'ing, that I WILL crash.[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, I've lost it PLENTY of times on an autocross course, but the day that I anticipate eventually wrecking is the day I stop participating. The entire point of Solo events is safe fun with your car at the limit. If you wreck, either the course was poorly designed, you were driving out of control, or you car shouldn't have been on the course. A flippant attitude about safety at SCCA amature events will only help kill off sponsoring clubs and available venues.
I may have been a bit harsh in my reply, but God knows we don't need some kid (or insurance agent) reading Lume's post and thinking that autocrossing is reckless and wild. I stand by what I said.
| Eric SS | 10-09-2001 10:04 PM |
Wow! that track had almost no runoff room! has SCCA gotten ahold of the tape? i suspect a fine of sorts from the regional or national office for a local chapter running on this track!
Eric
Eric
| Robin2 | 10-09-2001 10:48 PM |
In any form of Motorsports, you always risk in crashing or damaging your car..... no matter what type of event it is....
You must accept it.... obviously the risk are always there even if they're minimal.....
For this track, there wasn't much room for error.... he entered the second corner at high speed which he tried to apex as a real race track but lost it when both right wheels left the track....
Obviously speed was a factor in this rollover...... I would have put pylon gates to bring down the speed during the event.....
Robin
You must accept it.... obviously the risk are always there even if they're minimal.....
For this track, there wasn't much room for error.... he entered the second corner at high speed which he tried to apex as a real race track but lost it when both right wheels left the track....
Obviously speed was a factor in this rollover...... I would have put pylon gates to bring down the speed during the event.....
Robin
| NebScoob | 10-10-2001 01:30 AM |
My thoughts...
I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in, as someone who has raced there for the first time in the not so distant past. (Sept this year)
Some videos from that race were posted earlier in this forum.
I've seen the video and understand what happened, and something like that happening was my big fear...Other events I had been to in the Nebraska Region were all in large parking lots,
with plenty of run off room and slow speeds. This track was a bit different. Plenty wide but THAT CORNER is pretty high speed. To give you an idea of the speed, I shifted to third shortly before that corner, lift to start the corner, then power though it, to the end of that strieght, then back down to second for the rest of the course. It's a lift and go corner for most cars... about a 40-45 degree bend...
As I was saying that was my big fear...One of the guys we drove up with spun right away (like the 7th car off the line) right on that corner but stayed on the track. Having seen that, I was a little intimidated by that corner...By the end of the day in was a different story...By then I had plent of confidence, But I was still a mindful and tried to keep the car in the center of the track. I did not want to get to close to that outer edge.
Before the race we were told again and again to be careful and watch out for that...They did a very good job to explain, warn, and scare us so that we would be careful though that corner.
So why race there?
It was probably the most fun I've had in a long time. More fun than a typical autocross. It feels like your REALLY racing on a real race course. I got to do three-to-two heel-toe downshifts under heavy braking. Also, after getting over my inital fears, I never felt unsafe. I was real comfortable with my car and my ability to keep the car out of trouble. I would go there again and race without much worry...for myself.
When I see an rollover like this, When I remeber a similar but much smaller accident that happend at the race I was at, When I listen to some people talk about other incidents... I worry about others. The inexperinced driver, the driver who always pushes it too hard, guys with cars more on "the edge" than I...RWD cars that might slip out easily, ect...
At a typical autocross I would probably jump in the car and ride a run with ANYONE. But not there... I would only ride with someone I really trusted. I think that tells you something.
I guess my idea would be, if you want to use the track fine, but I don't think you should call it a normal autocross where just anyone car come in and race... Normal Autocrosses are supposed to be safe and slow. This is neither. It needs to be called something else and dealt with as such, more than an autox but less than a full blown track event.
Oh, and I don't know what is going on in that video in terms of, there are no corner marschalls anywhere! We had flag and Fire people out when I raced. The people who rushed down to the car apear to be the same idiots sitting in the middle of the track?
Some videos from that race were posted earlier in this forum.
I've seen the video and understand what happened, and something like that happening was my big fear...Other events I had been to in the Nebraska Region were all in large parking lots,
with plenty of run off room and slow speeds. This track was a bit different. Plenty wide but THAT CORNER is pretty high speed. To give you an idea of the speed, I shifted to third shortly before that corner, lift to start the corner, then power though it, to the end of that strieght, then back down to second for the rest of the course. It's a lift and go corner for most cars... about a 40-45 degree bend...
As I was saying that was my big fear...One of the guys we drove up with spun right away (like the 7th car off the line) right on that corner but stayed on the track. Having seen that, I was a little intimidated by that corner...By the end of the day in was a different story...By then I had plent of confidence, But I was still a mindful and tried to keep the car in the center of the track. I did not want to get to close to that outer edge.
Before the race we were told again and again to be careful and watch out for that...They did a very good job to explain, warn, and scare us so that we would be careful though that corner.
So why race there?
It was probably the most fun I've had in a long time. More fun than a typical autocross. It feels like your REALLY racing on a real race course. I got to do three-to-two heel-toe downshifts under heavy braking. Also, after getting over my inital fears, I never felt unsafe. I was real comfortable with my car and my ability to keep the car out of trouble. I would go there again and race without much worry...for myself.
When I see an rollover like this, When I remeber a similar but much smaller accident that happend at the race I was at, When I listen to some people talk about other incidents... I worry about others. The inexperinced driver, the driver who always pushes it too hard, guys with cars more on "the edge" than I...RWD cars that might slip out easily, ect...
At a typical autocross I would probably jump in the car and ride a run with ANYONE. But not there... I would only ride with someone I really trusted. I think that tells you something.
I guess my idea would be, if you want to use the track fine, but I don't think you should call it a normal autocross where just anyone car come in and race... Normal Autocrosses are supposed to be safe and slow. This is neither. It needs to be called something else and dealt with as such, more than an autox but less than a full blown track event.
Oh, and I don't know what is going on in that video in terms of, there are no corner marschalls anywhere! We had flag and Fire people out when I raced. The people who rushed down to the car apear to be the same idiots sitting in the middle of the track?
| aspera | 10-10-2001 04:09 AM |
It kinda looks like FWD power understeer, then when the right front catches dirt the left front torque steers toward the railroad tracks.
| LUME | 10-10-2001 08:03 AM |
Layman,
Obviously you don't know me. Dobes and Tony chimed in because they do know me. It's a fact that I am constantly slower than almost every other subaru at autox's.... It's a fact that I have only lost control of my car ONCE at an autox (in about 4 or 5 years of autoxing regularly). It's also a fact that I run Time Trials where practice sessions allow open passing.....
Do the math... If I keep doing this stuff for the rest of my life, I will get into an accident sooner or later.... If you don't think this is true, you should probably get out of motorsports now. You have to be prepared for that....
The accident may be as simple as spinning out at an autox and nailing a curb or fence (I've seen it twice.... by seasoned drivers). It may be as bad as an off at a track event where only God can save me. These are the chances I take. I follow all of the safety rules and I'm a pretty decent driver (many would say I'm at the conservative end of the spectrum).
It's people like YOU that scare newbies away from Solo II's....
--Roy
Obviously you don't know me. Dobes and Tony chimed in because they do know me. It's a fact that I am constantly slower than almost every other subaru at autox's.... It's a fact that I have only lost control of my car ONCE at an autox (in about 4 or 5 years of autoxing regularly). It's also a fact that I run Time Trials where practice sessions allow open passing.....
Do the math... If I keep doing this stuff for the rest of my life, I will get into an accident sooner or later.... If you don't think this is true, you should probably get out of motorsports now. You have to be prepared for that....
The accident may be as simple as spinning out at an autox and nailing a curb or fence (I've seen it twice.... by seasoned drivers). It may be as bad as an off at a track event where only God can save me. These are the chances I take. I follow all of the safety rules and I'm a pretty decent driver (many would say I'm at the conservative end of the spectrum).
It's people like YOU that scare newbies away from Solo II's....
--Roy
| Brad B. | 10-10-2001 09:00 AM |
I can't get the video anymore.... was it taken down?
| Layman | 10-10-2001 09:16 AM |
Lume,
This doesn't need to turn into a flame war. I don't really understand why my point of view would scare away newbies, but I don't really care enough to hear an explination either.
The simple fact of the matter is that autocross is supposed to be an almost zero risk event. If the course is well designed and the drivers aren't reckless, then it should be 99.99% accident free. I don't need to know you to know that planning for an accident at a SoloII event is out of the scope for such an event. That kind of fatalism belongs in door to door racing, if anywhere.
Anyhow, you're entitled to you opinion and me to mine. Let's just leave it at that and allow this thread to be about the situation at hand.
This doesn't need to turn into a flame war. I don't really understand why my point of view would scare away newbies, but I don't really care enough to hear an explination either.
The simple fact of the matter is that autocross is supposed to be an almost zero risk event. If the course is well designed and the drivers aren't reckless, then it should be 99.99% accident free. I don't need to know you to know that planning for an accident at a SoloII event is out of the scope for such an event. That kind of fatalism belongs in door to door racing, if anywhere.
Anyhow, you're entitled to you opinion and me to mine. Let's just leave it at that and allow this thread to be about the situation at hand.
| Patrick Olsen | 10-10-2001 10:52 AM |
Well, I'll jump in and continue to beat the dead horse. In my opinion there's a [i]huge[/i] difference between "planning for" an accident and "being prepared for" an accident. I don't think LUME is "planning for an accident" at an auto-x or an open track event. I'm on the same page as ColinL on this one, even a great driver is eventually going to make that one slip, and sometimes that's all it takes. And, as Tony said, I'm sure LUME is way more concerned about an accident during an open track event rather than at an auto-x.
"Being prepared for" an accident explains why a lot of guys don't auto-x or open track their street cars - they have a dedicated car that they trailer. And I'm not talking about guys who actually race (where a trailered, non-street car is a given), I'm talking guys who do the same open track/high performance driving schools that I do, or auto-x at the same events I do. Does that mean they're reckless drivers and are planning to crash? I hardly think so. They just understand that extensive driving near the limits could very well result in [i]bad things[/i] and they'd rather not risk their street cars.
Anyway, as for the Contour's demise, I agree that an offset gate of some sort before that corner to bring the speed down would be a wise idea. If you want to run the track flat out then, as NebScoob said, the event probably should be run not as an auto-x but as some sort of pseudo open track/time trial event.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[i]Yeah, I totalled a car on track.[/i]
"Being prepared for" an accident explains why a lot of guys don't auto-x or open track their street cars - they have a dedicated car that they trailer. And I'm not talking about guys who actually race (where a trailered, non-street car is a given), I'm talking guys who do the same open track/high performance driving schools that I do, or auto-x at the same events I do. Does that mean they're reckless drivers and are planning to crash? I hardly think so. They just understand that extensive driving near the limits could very well result in [i]bad things[/i] and they'd rather not risk their street cars.
Anyway, as for the Contour's demise, I agree that an offset gate of some sort before that corner to bring the speed down would be a wise idea. If you want to run the track flat out then, as NebScoob said, the event probably should be run not as an auto-x but as some sort of pseudo open track/time trial event.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[i]Yeah, I totalled a car on track.[/i]
| akuhner | 10-10-2001 11:02 AM |
You get out of bed every morning at your own risk. Deal.
If someone couldn't tell that racing your car on a go-cart track and calling it Auto-X (this does not fall within legal SCCA Solo II Auto-X) is risky, you shouldn't have gotten out of bed that morning. Why can't people just take responsibility for their own actions?
That said, I'd still give it a shot! :D I'd just kick [B]MYSELF[/B] if I damaged my car. :lol:
I think the 'flame war' above is funny - mainly because if you decide to drive an automobile you have to accept the possiblity that you will be involved in an accident eventually. Motor sports, if done right, only up that chance a little because you probably offset your increased danger by advanced handeling skills.
Go to SCCA Solo II events and have fun - they are safe!
Alex
:alien:
If someone couldn't tell that racing your car on a go-cart track and calling it Auto-X (this does not fall within legal SCCA Solo II Auto-X) is risky, you shouldn't have gotten out of bed that morning. Why can't people just take responsibility for their own actions?
That said, I'd still give it a shot! :D I'd just kick [B]MYSELF[/B] if I damaged my car. :lol:
I think the 'flame war' above is funny - mainly because if you decide to drive an automobile you have to accept the possiblity that you will be involved in an accident eventually. Motor sports, if done right, only up that chance a little because you probably offset your increased danger by advanced handeling skills.
Go to SCCA Solo II events and have fun - they are safe!
Alex
:alien:
| 10th Warrior | 10-10-2001 02:44 PM |
i have to disagree with you to some degree, Gary. in normal racing or with professional or experienced drivers, the course saftey call is much easier to make. but auto-x caters to the inexperienced novice, who is curious about learning to drive better but doesn't know how yet. how can a person, who doesn't have a good idea of how a car is going to handle or how far they could skid, or even which corners they are likely to lose it in, how can they judge saftey? they can't. so what, they error on the side of caution. well, then they'd never auto-x. it is the saftey stewards job to make sure the course is safe because many potential participantes can't do it on their own. in 99% of the rollovers in auto-x, it is the drivers fault. like the jettas on race tires that hop and roll when they get really crooked, for example. this is driver error. certainly driver error was a factor in this crash. i mean, who among us hasn't understeered? but the point is, there was absolutely no room for error. instead of taking out a cone or two, you got on the grass, loosing traction. after that, it was a very short distance until the tire wall. to have a wall, about 10-15 feet away from the track, with grass inbetween, in a third gear corner is unacceptable, and this video is testament to that. the saftey stwerd screwed up.
| GarySheehan | 10-10-2001 02:55 PM |
10th,
Good points. I agree with all of them. BUT, I think even a new driver can think, wow, what if I hit that wall, what would happen then? People do it on the street every day. Oooh, if I go too fast here, I could hit a guardrail. Why does that judgement that these inexperienced drivers use on the street every day go away at an autocross?
Gary
Good points. I agree with all of them. BUT, I think even a new driver can think, wow, what if I hit that wall, what would happen then? People do it on the street every day. Oooh, if I go too fast here, I could hit a guardrail. Why does that judgement that these inexperienced drivers use on the street every day go away at an autocross?
Gary
| viodea | 10-12-2001 05:26 PM |
Does anyone has this video? I got an error when I click that link.
thanks
thanks
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