| Penguinking | 12-05-2003 05:42 PM |
getting started in wheel to wheel racing
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first of all, i need to explain myself a bit. i'm only a college student, so i'm not looking to compete in anything fancy. i was wondering what are the cheapest and easiest racing series to get started in. i know karting is a great way to begin a racing career, but i don't know where to begin. if i can secure my own kart, where do i go to get my racing license and get into racing? also, about how much does it cost to field a kart for a season? i know there are other racing series out there (formula dodge, scca) but it seems like karting is the cheapest. can someone point me in the right direction? thanks
Robert
Robert
| Kilika2k | 12-05-2003 06:29 PM |
Well first off, you gotta find a track. Most tracks have some kind organization running it, with different leagues. So first off, I'd find a local track. Then I'd try to get some regular practice laps then eventually enter a rookie league. From there on, your success will greatly depend on how good you are, and how much dough you got to spend on practice sessions and entry fees. I think some may have instructional classes that could lead to some kind of license.
But yeah, looky here: [url]http://www.jimrussellusa.com/karting/karting.php[/url]
I myself would try karting too, but its just too expensive, and my F1 dreams evaporated after elementary school. But don't let that get you down. I'm still gonna pursue some karting, but I think my skills are laid in racecar engineering, which I'm planning to do after school.:cool:
But yeah, looky here: [url]http://www.jimrussellusa.com/karting/karting.php[/url]
I myself would try karting too, but its just too expensive, and my F1 dreams evaporated after elementary school. But don't let that get you down. I'm still gonna pursue some karting, but I think my skills are laid in racecar engineering, which I'm planning to do after school.:cool:
| sdecker | 12-06-2003 03:19 PM |
Robert:
Give serious consideration to Spec Miata. It's widely recognized as one of the cheapest ways to race. A typical SM car running mid-pack can be had for 10-12K, or maybe a little less if you build it from the ground up and do all the labor yourself. You can buy a pre-owned fully sorted front running car for under 20K, especially now that the season is over.
Of course, you'll need a trailer and some sort of tow vehicle if you want to go outside of Road Atlanta, so you'll have to factor that in.
Tires, gas, entry fees and other consumables will likely cost you in the area of 500-1000 dollars a race weekend, heavily dependent on your tire budget. Since you live so close to RA, you might have lower expenses if you choose to run there.
The cars themselves are overbuilt so they tend to be quite reliable. If you do have a mechanical problem, parts are relatively cheap and easily available.
PM Enduroshark if you want more information. He knows WAY more than I do about SM and is a cool guy to boot. Tell him I sent you and he'll talk your ear off about it. :D
Scott
Give serious consideration to Spec Miata. It's widely recognized as one of the cheapest ways to race. A typical SM car running mid-pack can be had for 10-12K, or maybe a little less if you build it from the ground up and do all the labor yourself. You can buy a pre-owned fully sorted front running car for under 20K, especially now that the season is over.
Of course, you'll need a trailer and some sort of tow vehicle if you want to go outside of Road Atlanta, so you'll have to factor that in.
Tires, gas, entry fees and other consumables will likely cost you in the area of 500-1000 dollars a race weekend, heavily dependent on your tire budget. Since you live so close to RA, you might have lower expenses if you choose to run there.
The cars themselves are overbuilt so they tend to be quite reliable. If you do have a mechanical problem, parts are relatively cheap and easily available.
PM Enduroshark if you want more information. He knows WAY more than I do about SM and is a cool guy to boot. Tell him I sent you and he'll talk your ear off about it. :D
Scott
| BIGSKYWRX | 12-07-2003 11:27 AM |
Isn't there also a series that utilizes older VW GTi's. They essentially dictate what mods can be added- period. Read an article on this series somewhere (Sports Car, Grssroots???)- sounded very feasible to get into.
Big Sky
Big Sky
| AlexP | 12-07-2003 03:37 PM |
[QUOTE]Give serious consideration to Spec Miata. It's widely recognized as one of the cheapest ways to race. A typical SM car running mid-pack can be had for 10-12K[/QUOTE]
Spec Miata, while VERY rewarding, is not even close to being one of the cheapest. In a few years when there are a ton of them for sale, then I would agree. But for now, paying $10k for your first racecar is pretty steep.
Look into used improved touring cars. ITA and ITB cars will be as fast (if not faster) than SM, and will cost 1/2 the price.
Some other ideas (buy used, much cheaper):
NASA GTI Cup (mentioned above)
NASA Honda Challange
NASA PS (pro-sedan, like SCCA Improved Touring)
EMRA ST5/4/3 (ST2/1/GT are probably too expensive)
Karting will be cheaper than all of these. You can buy a pretty sweet used cart for only a few thousand bucks, and you can tow them with just about any car. You need a tow rig of some sort to haul any type of full racecar. (Randy Zimmer towing an open class imprezza with a legacy doesn't count.... he's crazy :eek: )
Spec Miata, while VERY rewarding, is not even close to being one of the cheapest. In a few years when there are a ton of them for sale, then I would agree. But for now, paying $10k for your first racecar is pretty steep.
Look into used improved touring cars. ITA and ITB cars will be as fast (if not faster) than SM, and will cost 1/2 the price.
Some other ideas (buy used, much cheaper):
NASA GTI Cup (mentioned above)
NASA Honda Challange
NASA PS (pro-sedan, like SCCA Improved Touring)
EMRA ST5/4/3 (ST2/1/GT are probably too expensive)
Karting will be cheaper than all of these. You can buy a pretty sweet used cart for only a few thousand bucks, and you can tow them with just about any car. You need a tow rig of some sort to haul any type of full racecar. (Randy Zimmer towing an open class imprezza with a legacy doesn't count.... he's crazy :eek: )
| eyeballs | 12-07-2003 07:59 PM |
don't forget about spec rx-7. those cars might be a handful to drive but lots of fun and very competitive, ive heard.
| Snowphun | 12-07-2003 11:16 PM |
Is Athens anywhere near Alpharetta? That's where Andretti Speed Labs is located, a very nice indoor karting track. They have leagues that are competitve and fun: arrive and drive style so no need to worry about equipment. If you enjoy that, then consider stepping up and buying gear.
Paul
Paul
| Penguinking | 12-08-2003 12:40 AM |
i've done indoor karting before (kartzone in houston and RPM indoor raceway in austin) and i've been to andretti as well - i love indoor karting, but the thrill is starting to wear off. as with any driving, im beginnign to crave more handling and more speed :devil:
anyways, the cheaper the budget the better - i think i'll pay ASL a visit and see if any of the guys there know more about professional karting.
the problem with SM is i can't afford a fully prepped race car right now - i might be able to get by if i bought a used miata and prepped it myself, cause that'd be cheaper in the short run, but it would end up costing me more long term. and i wouldn't be able to race it for a few seasons. Scott, thanks for the advice and the referral, but i think SM is out of my league right now.
anyways, the cheaper the budget the better - i think i'll pay ASL a visit and see if any of the guys there know more about professional karting.
the problem with SM is i can't afford a fully prepped race car right now - i might be able to get by if i bought a used miata and prepped it myself, cause that'd be cheaper in the short run, but it would end up costing me more long term. and i wouldn't be able to race it for a few seasons. Scott, thanks for the advice and the referral, but i think SM is out of my league right now.
| rkkwan | 12-08-2003 12:21 PM |
Yes, karting is the way to go. Cheap (relatively), and you can learn a whole lot, and to keep yourself in good physical shape.
On the car side, you may want to see if there is any club running endurance racing in your area. Drivers are less aggressive, so less chance of banging sheetmetals, since there's 2-3 hours or racing, not 15 laps. You won't win get any sponsor or win any money doing that, but it's a way to get some experience, and build a resume.
On the car side, you may want to see if there is any club running endurance racing in your area. Drivers are less aggressive, so less chance of banging sheetmetals, since there's 2-3 hours or racing, not 15 laps. You won't win get any sponsor or win any money doing that, but it's a way to get some experience, and build a resume.
| WRX03 | 12-08-2003 03:13 PM |
In your part of the world 4 cycle oval karting is big. But there are sprint tracks(roadracing) too. Go to [url]www.4cycle.com[/url] or [url]www.ekartingnews.com[/url] forums. I started karting when I was in college, much cheaper than any other form of racing. It's racing on a budget.
| RebelINS | 12-08-2003 06:32 PM |
I was thinking about doing formula vee pretty soon. It seems like those aren't that expensive, and because they aren't that fast, it will really train you to be a good driver.
-Wes
-Wes
| Penguinking | 12-08-2003 07:17 PM |
thats another idea - i know there are TONs of different SCCA racing divisions to compete in - how much would it cost to field a formula vee, or star mazda, or _____ class for a year? i know the actual cost of the car is alot, so do most ppl offset taht with sponsers and such? or are most racers self funded
| ITWRX4ME | 12-09-2003 10:18 AM |
Just don't forget that w/ the pure race cars you'll have to have a towing vehicle and trailer.
Karting seems more doable on the surface. You'll still need a pickup, SUV, minivan, or large station wagon to hual to races(or a late 60s - early 70s American sedan with the obligatory huge trunk ;) ).
Karting seems more doable on the surface. You'll still need a pickup, SUV, minivan, or large station wagon to hual to races(or a late 60s - early 70s American sedan with the obligatory huge trunk ;) ).
| WRX03 | 12-09-2003 10:26 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ITWRX4ME [/i]
[B] You'll still need a pickup, SUV, minivan, or large station wagon to hual to races(or a late 60s - early 70s American sedan with the obligatory huge trunk ;) ). [/B][/QUOTE]
No you don't. When I had three karts I had an enclosed trailer. Now I have one kart and a folder up trailer that I keep in the garage. All you need is a hitch on your scooby.
[B] You'll still need a pickup, SUV, minivan, or large station wagon to hual to races(or a late 60s - early 70s American sedan with the obligatory huge trunk ;) ). [/B][/QUOTE]
No you don't. When I had three karts I had an enclosed trailer. Now I have one kart and a folder up trailer that I keep in the garage. All you need is a hitch on your scooby.
| ITWRX4ME | 12-09-2003 11:51 AM |
True. Don't know why I overlooked that one. I use a small trailer myself for track days.
| sdecker | 12-09-2003 09:18 PM |
FYI, there's a nice little article in this month's Road & Track about karting, with specific emphasis on the Rotax Max stuff. They claim about $5500 for the full-on package. I'm not sure what the cost per race weekend would be, but it's something to consider.
Hell, Robert, if you can find anything out about places to run those Rotax Max karts around here, let me know and I'll buy one too so you got a racin' buddy. :D You know, someone to share setups with, talk trash, etc. :lol:
Scott
Hell, Robert, if you can find anything out about places to run those Rotax Max karts around here, let me know and I'll buy one too so you got a racin' buddy. :D You know, someone to share setups with, talk trash, etc. :lol:
Scott
| Penguinking | 12-09-2003 09:44 PM |
will do :)
which road and track issue? cause the january one is already out i believe. is it the december or jan issue?
edit: it IS the january issue, and i found the article online. [url]http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=21&article_id=1082&page_number=1&preview=[/url]
great read- makes me want to jump right into karting. this'll make a nice christmas "gift" for myself if i can scrounge up the cash :D
which road and track issue? cause the january one is already out i believe. is it the december or jan issue?
edit: it IS the january issue, and i found the article online. [url]http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=21&article_id=1082&page_number=1&preview=[/url]
great read- makes me want to jump right into karting. this'll make a nice christmas "gift" for myself if i can scrounge up the cash :D
| Snowphun | 12-09-2003 10:03 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Penguinking[/i]
[B] i know the actual cost of the car is alot, so do most ppl offset taht with sponsers and such? or are most racers self funded [/B][/QUOTE]
Sponsor? Sure, your paycheck.
:lol:
[B] i know the actual cost of the car is alot, so do most ppl offset taht with sponsers and such? or are most racers self funded [/B][/QUOTE]
Sponsor? Sure, your paycheck.
:lol:
| mlambert | 12-09-2003 11:24 PM |
What about AI/X?
[url]http://www.americaniron-east.com/[/url]
NASA SE
[url]http://www.nasa-southeast.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.americaniron-east.com/[/url]
NASA SE
[url]http://www.nasa-southeast.com/[/url]
| WRX03 | 12-10-2003 06:02 AM |
:) Few more inputs. Go to the sites I mention first and find local kart tracks and people. The last thing you want to do is buy a kart and have no one to race with or be limited in where you race. After you deside what type of kart racing you want to do, just post "I need help buying a good use kart" Many people will step up to help you, even ask people to go with you. You can get a used kart in the $1000 to $3000 range. Also at the kart site ask about swap meets.
If you go SCCA, also look at SRF (spec racer ford). All the cars/parts are the same and is very strict in keeping the cars even and safe. The engines are sealed and you can run many years before a rebuild. It really up to the driver and learning how to set up the car. With that said there's a local guy that has the car set up to basic settings and doesn't change it at all, all year. He usually runs up front and is the one to beat.
If you go SCCA, also look at SRF (spec racer ford). All the cars/parts are the same and is very strict in keeping the cars even and safe. The engines are sealed and you can run many years before a rebuild. It really up to the driver and learning how to set up the car. With that said there's a local guy that has the car set up to basic settings and doesn't change it at all, all year. He usually runs up front and is the one to beat.
| Penguinking | 12-10-2003 12:13 PM |
"CHECKERED FLAG FALLS ON PRO SPEC RACER SERIES
TOPEKA , Kan. ( May 21, 2003 ) � SCCA Pro Racing announced today that it has cancelled the remainder of the 2003 Pro Spec Racer series.
The series initially appeared in 1985 with a Renault power plant and was re-introduced with Ford power in 1994. Once part of a successful SCCA Pro Racing feature weekend package, that also included the Trans-Am, World Challenge and Formula Ford 2000, the series high profile event opportunities have largely fallen by the wayside to series with more fan appeal or sponsorship dollars, often required to help offset event promoter costs.
�Unfortunately, the Pro Spec Racer series has run its course as a viable professional racing series,� said Mitch Wright , SCCA Pro Racing Vice President and General Manager. �We�ve tried to alter the series� business model several times to reflect the lack of support from promoters and sponsors, but that has resulted in reduced support from participants, and we have no other choice but to cease the series� operations.
�Spec Racers continue to be SCCA Club Racing�s biggest class, and with over 800 cars in existence, will likely remain so for years to come. However, without the support of event promoters, sponsorship dollars and participants, we cannot logically continue the Pro series.�
SCCA Pro Racing has informed all participants entered in the event scheduled for May 24-25 at Buttonwillow Raceway Park .
Shawn Morrison won the final Pro Spec Racer event in the series history this past Saturday, May 17, at Mosport International Raceway. "
[url]http://www.sccapro.com/srfps/[/url]
canceled for good?
TOPEKA , Kan. ( May 21, 2003 ) � SCCA Pro Racing announced today that it has cancelled the remainder of the 2003 Pro Spec Racer series.
The series initially appeared in 1985 with a Renault power plant and was re-introduced with Ford power in 1994. Once part of a successful SCCA Pro Racing feature weekend package, that also included the Trans-Am, World Challenge and Formula Ford 2000, the series high profile event opportunities have largely fallen by the wayside to series with more fan appeal or sponsorship dollars, often required to help offset event promoter costs.
�Unfortunately, the Pro Spec Racer series has run its course as a viable professional racing series,� said Mitch Wright , SCCA Pro Racing Vice President and General Manager. �We�ve tried to alter the series� business model several times to reflect the lack of support from promoters and sponsors, but that has resulted in reduced support from participants, and we have no other choice but to cease the series� operations.
�Spec Racers continue to be SCCA Club Racing�s biggest class, and with over 800 cars in existence, will likely remain so for years to come. However, without the support of event promoters, sponsorship dollars and participants, we cannot logically continue the Pro series.�
SCCA Pro Racing has informed all participants entered in the event scheduled for May 24-25 at Buttonwillow Raceway Park .
Shawn Morrison won the final Pro Spec Racer event in the series history this past Saturday, May 17, at Mosport International Raceway. "
[url]http://www.sccapro.com/srfps/[/url]
canceled for good?
| ITWRX4ME | 12-10-2003 12:57 PM |
What about the 'arrive and drive' type of programs. I looked at Panoz a while back and thought it was pretty reasonable. They're based in Atlanta, no?
| dave bruener | 12-10-2003 05:10 PM |
Note that is PRO Spec racer, not Spec racer at the National or Club level.
Getting into a dedicated race car is the way to go and a spec series car is great because then you really have to focus on driving and not wondering about "is it the car?"
On the flip side of the coin, if you like working on cars A LOT and you have that engineer part of you that is dying to get out, then the Improved Touring classes are great. Many cars for sale in the back of Sports Car. They are relatively cheap and you get to tweek them a little with in the rules;).
I had an ITC Fiesta and that was the most fun I had wheel to wheel racing. Durable, easy to work on, and if it got banged up, I didn't care!:p
Getting into a dedicated race car is the way to go and a spec series car is great because then you really have to focus on driving and not wondering about "is it the car?"
On the flip side of the coin, if you like working on cars A LOT and you have that engineer part of you that is dying to get out, then the Improved Touring classes are great. Many cars for sale in the back of Sports Car. They are relatively cheap and you get to tweek them a little with in the rules;).
I had an ITC Fiesta and that was the most fun I had wheel to wheel racing. Durable, easy to work on, and if it got banged up, I didn't care!:p
| sdecker | 12-10-2003 09:30 PM |
I'm not personally an IT racer, but I definitely considered it. After speaking with many people in the know, I discarded ITA, ITB, and ITC. Yes, it's 'cheap' to get in, but very expensive to be competitive. The problem is that all the front runners have stretched the rules to the max, maybe even bent a few. No big deal there since everybody will do whatever they can get away with, but I was advised that it would take a lot more money to build a front running IT-anything car than it would to do a spec Miata or similar.
If you're not worried about being competitive, then that's a different story...if you just want to run wheel-to-wheel rather quickly, then IT is the way to go. You'll need to get your competition license at an additional cost regardless of what type of racing you choose.
Good luck,
Scott
If you're not worried about being competitive, then that's a different story...if you just want to run wheel-to-wheel rather quickly, then IT is the way to go. You'll need to get your competition license at an additional cost regardless of what type of racing you choose.
Good luck,
Scott
| Patrick L | 12-10-2003 09:39 PM |
The SCCA is looking to let the 2.5RS in ITS next year. We shall find out soon.
| Penguinking | 12-10-2003 10:12 PM |
there should be a spec-impreza class for SCCA
| Evegan | 12-11-2003 12:18 PM |
You should consider the Honda Challenge series too. A used civic/integra can be had pretty cheap and the aftermarket support is huge. Lots of races on lots of tracks in the SouthEast.
Check out [url]www.hondachallenge.com[/url] and [url]http://www.nasaproracing.com/news/honda_challenge.html[/url]
Evan
(one day I'll have a CRX race car)
Check out [url]www.hondachallenge.com[/url] and [url]http://www.nasaproracing.com/news/honda_challenge.html[/url]
Evan
(one day I'll have a CRX race car)
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