| Scooby South | 02-03-2001 07:33 PM |
Harness Bar
Hey Guys..
Anybody know of a Harness bar that fits our cars...Tom????
Anybody know of a Harness bar that fits our cars...Tom????
| Skirvdawg | 02-04-2001 06:57 AM |
Do you mean a bar that you attach an aftermarket seat belt harness to? I'm not sure who it is, but I saw pics of someone's car that had 5 point harnesses anchored to where the rear seatbelts have that thingy on the pillar.
Just an idea.
Just an idea.
| TeamSUBARU | 02-04-2001 09:20 PM |
That would be me. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
PM me for more info.
It fits the 2 door coupes only. I have mine powder coated black...there are a few other popular color choices available.
I might be able to get a pic for you in a couple of days.
PM me for more info.
It fits the 2 door coupes only. I have mine powder coated black...there are a few other popular color choices available.
I might be able to get a pic for you in a couple of days.
| CosmoTheCat | 02-04-2001 11:20 PM |
Yeah.. um, that'd be him. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] I figured that out earlier today but didn't have time to post it.
If you're looking for the bar, get whatever it is he's got.. looks pretty cool and it seems really solid. (I hear you need to beware of little kids in the back unhooking the belts though) [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
If you're looking for the bar, get whatever it is he's got.. looks pretty cool and it seems really solid. (I hear you need to beware of little kids in the back unhooking the belts though) [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
| CosmoTheCat | 02-05-2001 12:39 AM |
Um... There's a guy here in the Seattle/Eastside area with an older Impreza coupe turned into a race car who has one of those. It bolts under the top mount for the front seatbelts. I don't remember who he is or where he got it. (No offense, but I'm not so good with names when I meet people just once in a crowded environment.) You can PM Subie Gal and she should be able to tell ya.
| wrxwannabe | 02-05-2001 04:30 AM |
Wow, you guys read my mind... I've been thinking this would be the route I'd like to go. If you get pics I would be really interested and where you got it....
Cool
Later
Eric
Cool
Later
Eric
| TeamSUBARU | 02-18-2001 08:46 PM |
Pics are up!!!
<IMG SRC="http://i5.yimg.com/5/1a71cd4c/h/8b13c491/interior.jpg" border=0>
<IMG SRC="http://i5.yimg.com/5/1a71cd4c/h/90c2180e/hbracket.jpg" border=0>
[This message has been edited by TeamSUBARU (edited February 18, 2001).]
<IMG SRC="http://i5.yimg.com/5/1a71cd4c/h/8b13c491/interior.jpg" border=0>
<IMG SRC="http://i5.yimg.com/5/1a71cd4c/h/90c2180e/hbracket.jpg" border=0>
[This message has been edited by TeamSUBARU (edited February 18, 2001).]
| hacman | 02-19-2001 12:09 AM |
What are you looking to get for those? I was thinking about doing the same as a mount for my camcorder.
| mykrrrr | 02-19-2001 03:40 AM |
Is that harness bar really strong enough in the event of a crash??? It looks to only be held on by one bolt.
Personally, I'd feel more comfortable mounting my harnesses back at the rear seatbelt mounts.
-myk
Personally, I'd feel more comfortable mounting my harnesses back at the rear seatbelt mounts.
-myk
| Jaxx | 02-19-2001 09:33 AM |
ooh. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] ....hmmm that would be cool pm on its way
| Section 8 | 02-19-2001 01:12 PM |
"Personally, I'd feel more comfortable mounting my harnesses back at the rear seatbelt mounts."
Hello,
This has nothing to do with your opinion of the harness bar, but attaching your harnesses to the rear belt ancors sounds like a very secure mounting location (and it of course is) an element of safty also comes into play. You have to have your shoulder harness' attached at or above shoulder height to keep from potentially hurting your spine in a crash.
If your harness was attached to the rear belt locations, and you hit something, your upper body moves forward and the belts force your shoulders down towards the floor of the car with the force of your body moving forward. If you are unlucky, the harness doesn't leave your spine enough room and something gets squished or crushed.
ouch.
My opinion on the bar restraint is that if you are wearing the harnesses correctly (tight) the shock loading from your body "hitting" the belts will not be a incredibly large amount. And the seatbelt mounting locations are pretty strong (as well as what they were made for), as well as the "colums" being part of a integrated rollbar to begin with.
However, I'm SURE that it could be done wrong just as easily as being done right.
Greg
Hello,
This has nothing to do with your opinion of the harness bar, but attaching your harnesses to the rear belt ancors sounds like a very secure mounting location (and it of course is) an element of safty also comes into play. You have to have your shoulder harness' attached at or above shoulder height to keep from potentially hurting your spine in a crash.
If your harness was attached to the rear belt locations, and you hit something, your upper body moves forward and the belts force your shoulders down towards the floor of the car with the force of your body moving forward. If you are unlucky, the harness doesn't leave your spine enough room and something gets squished or crushed.
ouch.
My opinion on the bar restraint is that if you are wearing the harnesses correctly (tight) the shock loading from your body "hitting" the belts will not be a incredibly large amount. And the seatbelt mounting locations are pretty strong (as well as what they were made for), as well as the "colums" being part of a integrated rollbar to begin with.
However, I'm SURE that it could be done wrong just as easily as being done right.
Greg
| STiShawn | 02-19-2001 01:39 PM |
Section 8, I beg to differ. The only mandatory mounting considerations is that the harness's NOT be mounted at anything below a 45 degree angle, this to prevent the injury you are speaking of.Hence the rear seat belt (back seat) bolts are ok to use... You should NOT however mount to the rear floor, nor to the existing side lap belt bolts(only the new lap belt bolts should attach here)... Read any SCCA rule book for clarification.
The only thing that concerns me here about this harness bar, is the leverage moment created by having the bolts above the harness's themselves, yes I see the "keeper" tab behind the pillar If that were bolted down it would be a flawless design. Great idea though.
The only thing that concerns me here about this harness bar, is the leverage moment created by having the bolts above the harness's themselves, yes I see the "keeper" tab behind the pillar If that were bolted down it would be a flawless design. Great idea though.
| TeamSUBARU | 02-19-2001 03:49 PM |
To further explain the bar...the bar is 1-3/4" steel, which is the same as the roll cages of NASCAR. If someone was really concerned with the bar moving they could weld to the the bar to go straight back but I was told that this was not needed from the race shop that did the bar for me.
A harness bar is required in SCCA rules and is usually welded to the main hoop. This bar is obviously for auto-x and rally-x as there isn't a full cage for ProRally.
Also, if you look at the second picture, you will see the welds as well as the flange behind the pillar for added security incase of movement.
The car is also much stiffer now. Front Strut tower brace, harness bar and rear strut brace. This car is stiff!!
Oh, and as for the one bolt? The bolt is about 4 inches long and is the exact same bolt that holds your factory seat belts in. If they think that one bolt is safe then it must be.
[This message has been edited by TeamSUBARU (edited February 19, 2001).]
A harness bar is required in SCCA rules and is usually welded to the main hoop. This bar is obviously for auto-x and rally-x as there isn't a full cage for ProRally.
Also, if you look at the second picture, you will see the welds as well as the flange behind the pillar for added security incase of movement.
The car is also much stiffer now. Front Strut tower brace, harness bar and rear strut brace. This car is stiff!!
Oh, and as for the one bolt? The bolt is about 4 inches long and is the exact same bolt that holds your factory seat belts in. If they think that one bolt is safe then it must be.
[This message has been edited by TeamSUBARU (edited February 19, 2001).]
| Tangmere | 02-19-2001 05:30 PM |
Company that makes the harness bar is called I/O Port [url="http://www.ioportracing.com/restraint.htm#anchor4293618095"]http://www.ioportracing.com/restraint.htm#anchor4293618095[/url] The bar goes for $99 and the camera mount is an additional $99. You need to measure the distance between the seatbelt mounting bolts to get your size.
| TeamSUBARU | 02-19-2001 06:16 PM |
Actually, the bar was purchased here [url="http://www.pregridmotorsports.com"]http://www.pregridmotorsports.com[/url] and is a much better set up than the I/O Ports one wich is not "Subaru specific" and is of a smaller diamater. I do however have the I/O Ports Camera Mount.
Also, Pre-Grid will powder coat it in a couple different colors if you want. Maybe even in STi Pink???
Also, Pre-Grid will powder coat it in a couple different colors if you want. Maybe even in STi Pink???
| ImprezedRS | 02-20-2001 06:36 AM |
How much?
| TeamSUBARU | 02-20-2001 09:18 PM |
I think it was $275. Powder coating is included. Not 100 percent sure about shipping. What Price do you put on safety as well as looks?
I had a guy email me and say that he would never pay that much and got all pissed off saying I was running a scam or something and said he could make a bar for $100.
Everyone can go check other shops...maybe Primm...I am not running any kind of deals for myself.
I have shared this with you all to give you some ideas. I recommend this to anyone who is into auto-x or rally-x.
I had a guy email me and say that he would never pay that much and got all pissed off saying I was running a scam or something and said he could make a bar for $100.
Everyone can go check other shops...maybe Primm...I am not running any kind of deals for myself.
I have shared this with you all to give you some ideas. I recommend this to anyone who is into auto-x or rally-x.
| Tangmere | 02-21-2001 07:48 AM |
TeamSubaru,
It fits my Impreza quite well, it'll also fit other cars with approximately the same dimensions (it can be extended up to 2" either side). It may only be a 1" bar, remember its held on by a 14mm bolt on either end, bigger is not better here. It is more than adequate for its intended purpose as a harness guide bar and camera mount. And it is approx $175 less than the one from Pre Grid.
It fits my Impreza quite well, it'll also fit other cars with approximately the same dimensions (it can be extended up to 2" either side). It may only be a 1" bar, remember its held on by a 14mm bolt on either end, bigger is not better here. It is more than adequate for its intended purpose as a harness guide bar and camera mount. And it is approx $175 less than the one from Pre Grid.
| Section 8 | 02-21-2001 08:16 AM |
"Section 8, I beg to differ. The only mandatory mounting considerations is that the harness's NOT be mounted at anything below a 45 degree angle, this to prevent the injury you are speaking of.Hence the rear seat belt (back seat) bolts are ok to use.."
Hello,
Where do you measure the 45 degree angle? I imagine that the seat placement, and where the belts acually run through it (or over the back) make some difference in this measurement? I supose that it is fine if the SCCA says that is. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/confused.gif[/img] That is where we first tried mounting the harness', but it would not have been safe for how the seats typically were positioned.
Thinking about it if an angle were 45 degrees, all the angles that you could measure behind the seat (using verticle and horizontal lines) would have to be 45 as well, and my memory says that it was close. It would pull on top of the drivers shoulders as well as slightly back around to the rear part of them. This may be the exception not the rule, he is 6'5" and his shoulders stick above the back rest and he likes to sit up straight.
I notice that OEM position all the restraints above the shoulders. I'm not comfortable with anything more than a shallow angle from horazontal behind and slightly below shoulder level. Much like any racecar with a roll cage mounted harness. 45 degrees is probably the MAX that they will allow on a track, so why not stay as far away from that as possible? The price difference between long harnesses and the bar with short harnesses isn't much different. Especially when I am concidering safty equipment.
IMO using the bar and the shorter belts would be desirable also because there is less belt to stretch in the event of an impact.
(EDIT) If someone were concerned with the strength of the bar, I supose that you could have a harness for your harnes bar made, by haveing a couple lengths of safty belt material made (or maybe there is something premade out there already????) with a loop at one end and an ancor at the other with a length adjustment, put the loop around the harness bar, and ancor the other end to the rear seatbelt ancors. Pretension as you prefer.
Greg
[This message has been edited by Section 8 (edited February 21, 2001).]
Hello,
Where do you measure the 45 degree angle? I imagine that the seat placement, and where the belts acually run through it (or over the back) make some difference in this measurement? I supose that it is fine if the SCCA says that is. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/confused.gif[/img] That is where we first tried mounting the harness', but it would not have been safe for how the seats typically were positioned.
Thinking about it if an angle were 45 degrees, all the angles that you could measure behind the seat (using verticle and horizontal lines) would have to be 45 as well, and my memory says that it was close. It would pull on top of the drivers shoulders as well as slightly back around to the rear part of them. This may be the exception not the rule, he is 6'5" and his shoulders stick above the back rest and he likes to sit up straight.
I notice that OEM position all the restraints above the shoulders. I'm not comfortable with anything more than a shallow angle from horazontal behind and slightly below shoulder level. Much like any racecar with a roll cage mounted harness. 45 degrees is probably the MAX that they will allow on a track, so why not stay as far away from that as possible? The price difference between long harnesses and the bar with short harnesses isn't much different. Especially when I am concidering safty equipment.
IMO using the bar and the shorter belts would be desirable also because there is less belt to stretch in the event of an impact.
(EDIT) If someone were concerned with the strength of the bar, I supose that you could have a harness for your harnes bar made, by haveing a couple lengths of safty belt material made (or maybe there is something premade out there already????) with a loop at one end and an ancor at the other with a length adjustment, put the loop around the harness bar, and ancor the other end to the rear seatbelt ancors. Pretension as you prefer.
Greg
[This message has been edited by Section 8 (edited February 21, 2001).]
| Jaxx | 02-21-2001 08:25 AM |
i met a guy last night who will be making me one of these saturday.. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] .. ill post picts.. he said that if there is demand he can produce them in qunaity more info to follow
-j
-j
| Dustin | 02-21-2001 09:04 AM |
Hmmm... I'd think that having a bar that "extends to fit" would make the bar more flexible. Is it tube over tube? Solid would make me feel better. Like TeamSubaru says, "What price do you put on safety?"
Thanks though for posting the options.
db
Thanks though for posting the options.
db
| jeffg | 02-21-2001 09:17 AM |
Lets add some more problems. Make on for a Sedan. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] There are no shoulder seat mount bolts. It is an adjustable slider. What the hell am I supposed to do if I want a harness.
Jeff
(Just a hypothetical)
Jeff
(Just a hypothetical)
| Section 8 | 02-21-2001 10:58 AM |
Install a full cage, remove the rear seating surfaces, and just lash you "backseat" passengers into place with lengths of rope. If you want to have very comfortable "backseat" passengers, use natral fiber rope. ahhhhhhhhhh.... feel the softness. Or leather to impress them...... or depending on who they are and thier preferences..... turn them on. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Greg
Greg
| Scooby South | 02-21-2001 01:43 PM |
Boy..this has turned into quite a debate...
So is there an I/O one that will fit our cars..
It's only for AutoCross...and a video camera......[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
So is there an I/O one that will fit our cars..
It's only for AutoCross...and a video camera......[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
| TeamSUBARU | 02-21-2001 05:19 PM |
Scoobysouth: See what you've created!
Section8: I did talk about the harness bar strap that would go direclty back with Pre-grid before I had it made. It could definately be used if the tabs behind the pillars weren't there.
JeffG: Sedan owners are pretty much screwed anyways...[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Maybe a partial cage? Better than nothing.
<IMG SRC="http://www.ioportracing.com/images/ap-dragbar.gif" border=0>
Rjones: If I understand you correctly, you are assuming that a 3 pt stock belt is better than a 4 or 5 pt belt? The human body will stretch in an accident. The body needs to be kept in a safe position to prevent further injury such as flopping around inside a car or smashing the front windshield. With more belts holding you in the "Safe Zone" this will hopefully prevent injuries as the car crashes and crumbles around you as it is designed to do. There is always that one exception to the rule where someone would have been killed had they been wearing their belts but that is a chance I don't want to take.
This is a good discussion! It's nice to see other peoples points of view with out arguement. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Section8: I did talk about the harness bar strap that would go direclty back with Pre-grid before I had it made. It could definately be used if the tabs behind the pillars weren't there.
JeffG: Sedan owners are pretty much screwed anyways...[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Maybe a partial cage? Better than nothing.
<IMG SRC="http://www.ioportracing.com/images/ap-dragbar.gif" border=0>
Rjones: If I understand you correctly, you are assuming that a 3 pt stock belt is better than a 4 or 5 pt belt? The human body will stretch in an accident. The body needs to be kept in a safe position to prevent further injury such as flopping around inside a car or smashing the front windshield. With more belts holding you in the "Safe Zone" this will hopefully prevent injuries as the car crashes and crumbles around you as it is designed to do. There is always that one exception to the rule where someone would have been killed had they been wearing their belts but that is a chance I don't want to take.
This is a good discussion! It's nice to see other peoples points of view with out arguement. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
| rjones | 02-22-2001 12:48 AM |
What, if anything, do you all have to say about harness performance in the event of a roll-over? I heard someone mention once that when a car rolls over with a standard 3pt belt, you can submarine down a bit so your head doesn't get smooshed. With a harness, this isn't possible, so if you don't have a full cage then you're really in trouble.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
| Section 8 | 02-22-2001 04:07 PM |
Hello,
Your concern about rolling over with a harness are justified. What you say can happen. It is also part of the reason why there are speed limits on public roads. If you had a bad crash in an otherwise stock car with harnesses, you could have the roof cave in on you. You have to use some common sense here. In drag racing, if you run under a certen time, you better show up next time with a roll bar installed, or you will not be allowed on the track. If you find an open track with straights that get you up to a rate of speed well over the national speed limit, I would lean towards roll over protection of some sort, It wouldn't HAVE to be a full cage, but here more bars is better. If you are auto crossing, and drive at sane speeds on the road, the car will protect you in the unlikly event of a roll over with out a full safty cage.
Greg
Your concern about rolling over with a harness are justified. What you say can happen. It is also part of the reason why there are speed limits on public roads. If you had a bad crash in an otherwise stock car with harnesses, you could have the roof cave in on you. You have to use some common sense here. In drag racing, if you run under a certen time, you better show up next time with a roll bar installed, or you will not be allowed on the track. If you find an open track with straights that get you up to a rate of speed well over the national speed limit, I would lean towards roll over protection of some sort, It wouldn't HAVE to be a full cage, but here more bars is better. If you are auto crossing, and drive at sane speeds on the road, the car will protect you in the unlikly event of a roll over with out a full safty cage.
Greg
| Section 8 | 02-22-2001 05:08 PM |
Hello,
Your concern about rolling over with a harness are justified. What you say can happen. It is also part of the reason why there are speed limits on public roads. If you had a bad crash in an otherwise stock car with harnesses, you could have the roof cave in on you. You have to use some common sense here. In drag racing, if you run under a certen time, you better show up next time with a roll bar installed, or you will not be allowed on the track. If you find an open track with straights that get you up to a rate of speed well over the national speed limit, I would lean towards roll over protection of some sort, It wouldn't HAVE to be a full cage, but here more bars is better. If you are auto crossing, and drive at sane speeds on the road, the car will protect you in the unlikly event of a roll over with out a full safty cage.
Greg
Your concern about rolling over with a harness are justified. What you say can happen. It is also part of the reason why there are speed limits on public roads. If you had a bad crash in an otherwise stock car with harnesses, you could have the roof cave in on you. You have to use some common sense here. In drag racing, if you run under a certen time, you better show up next time with a roll bar installed, or you will not be allowed on the track. If you find an open track with straights that get you up to a rate of speed well over the national speed limit, I would lean towards roll over protection of some sort, It wouldn't HAVE to be a full cage, but here more bars is better. If you are auto crossing, and drive at sane speeds on the road, the car will protect you in the unlikly event of a roll over with out a full safty cage.
Greg
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