| milessport | 09-30-2003 06:24 PM |
STI and EVO in T1 - WRX in T2
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According to the latest edition of Fastrack [URL=http://www.scca.com/news/tech/fastrack/03-11-fastrack.pdf]http://www.scca.com/news/tech/fastrack/03-11-fastrack.pdf[/URL] (scca clubracing news) the STI and the EVO are classed in T1 and the WRX will run in T2, effective 1/1/04. A guy on sccaforums.com noted that it would definitely spice up the variety of cars and bring more of the Fast and the Furious crowd to the tracks (he welcomed the recent addition of the 350z) which would go a long way to liven up the otherwise dull spectator scene at scca clubracing events. The current t1/t2 field seems to otherwise be dominated by American iron (someone correct me here... this is not from personal experience). Maybe these cars have the performance-to-dollar quotient to rock the boat. Check out the T1 & T2 discussions in sccaforums.com.
| ChrisDP | 09-30-2003 07:27 PM |
Hmm... so in other words... the Evo and STi are Vette-fodder in T1, and the regular WRX is Camaro-fodder in T2. Fair enough, at least they're classed now. I'm thinking anyone who plans to run one must live in a VERY wet climate.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 09-30-2003 07:37 PM |
in a nutshell, yes. I am really curious to see what rules/trunk kits are put on these cars. EVO and STi are gonna get killed in T1. WRX may stand a chance in T2, but I highly doubt it, like I have said before.
| ChrisW | 09-30-2003 09:02 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChrisDP [/i]
[B]Hmm... so in other words... the Evo and STi are Vette-fodder in T1, and the regular WRX is Camaro-fodder in T2. Fair enough, at least they're classed now. I'm thinking anyone who plans to run one must live in a VERY wet climate. [/B][/QUOTE]
do you mean the east coast? :p
It might be possible for the STI to be competitive, but IMHO, the EVO should be in T2 because of the smaller displacement (2.0L like the WRX)
But I have to agree, the WRX is camaro fodder:rolleyes:
[B]Hmm... so in other words... the Evo and STi are Vette-fodder in T1, and the regular WRX is Camaro-fodder in T2. Fair enough, at least they're classed now. I'm thinking anyone who plans to run one must live in a VERY wet climate. [/B][/QUOTE]
do you mean the east coast? :p
It might be possible for the STI to be competitive, but IMHO, the EVO should be in T2 because of the smaller displacement (2.0L like the WRX)
But I have to agree, the WRX is camaro fodder:rolleyes:
| DILLIGAF Racing | 09-30-2003 10:11 PM |
I personally think they are all going to be fodder, but we will wait and see I guess.
| Recce03 | 10-01-2003 12:45 AM |
Does It Look Like I Give A ****
| recce02 | 10-01-2003 01:56 AM |
no
| milessport | 10-01-2003 03:24 AM |
I think I'll have to side with Recce03 and company. We need to lead even if we're following.
| kfoote | 10-01-2003 11:11 AM |
Re: STI and EVO in T1 - WRX in T2
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by milessport [/i]
[B] The current t1/t2 field seems to otherwise be dominated by American iron (someone correct me here... this is not from personal experience). [/B][/QUOTE]
There are a few cars in T2 that have been competitive other than the Camaro/Firebird at some of the handling oriented tracks. At Lime Rock, there was a Porsche Boxter and a Honda S2000 that ran for the race win right with 2 Camaros. Part of the problem with T2 is that not only is the Camaro SS the most powerful car, it's also the least expensive to build, run, and maintain.
FYI, the T1 track record at Lime rock was broken last week, down to 59.8 sec...There hasn't been anything that can compete with the Z06 that doesn't randomy light up the check engine light since the Z06 came out.
[B] The current t1/t2 field seems to otherwise be dominated by American iron (someone correct me here... this is not from personal experience). [/B][/QUOTE]
There are a few cars in T2 that have been competitive other than the Camaro/Firebird at some of the handling oriented tracks. At Lime Rock, there was a Porsche Boxter and a Honda S2000 that ran for the race win right with 2 Camaros. Part of the problem with T2 is that not only is the Camaro SS the most powerful car, it's also the least expensive to build, run, and maintain.
FYI, the T1 track record at Lime rock was broken last week, down to 59.8 sec...There hasn't been anything that can compete with the Z06 that doesn't randomy light up the check engine light since the Z06 came out.
| enduroshark | 10-01-2003 01:16 PM |
I think they also added the Mini Cooper S to SSB. How long now before the 2.5RS is also in SSC?
| milessport | 10-01-2003 03:51 PM |
I think the SS runs in T1... The Z-28 runs in T2.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 10-01-2003 04:43 PM |
Did anyone look at the entry list for TZ06 at run offs. Thats pretty much all that was there, were Z06's.
| 10th Warrior | 10-01-2003 04:50 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DILLIGAF Racing [/i]
[B]Did anyone look at the entry list for TZ06 at run offs. Thats pretty much all that was there, were Z06's. [/B][/QUOTE]
and how can you ignore Bobby in the lone bimmer? him and scotty white, they have too much money/free time...
[B]Did anyone look at the entry list for TZ06 at run offs. Thats pretty much all that was there, were Z06's. [/B][/QUOTE]
and how can you ignore Bobby in the lone bimmer? him and scotty white, they have too much money/free time...
| DILLIGAF Racing | 10-01-2003 10:43 PM |
yeah I went back and looked at the entry list to see if anybody other than a Z06 entered. Just the M3
| elgorey | 10-02-2003 08:51 AM |
Re: STI and EVO in T1 - WRX in T2
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by milessport [/i]
[B]A guy on sccaforums.com noted that it would definitely spice up the variety of cars and bring more of the Fast and the Furious crowd to the tracks [/B][/QUOTE]
How is it going to bring the Import crowd out when no racer is going to be stupid enough to buy and build a horribly outmatched car? STi and EVO in T1 is laughable. That is viper and z06 territory.
And a T2 WRX isnt going to fare much better. The WRX was t2 legal all this year, has [i]anyone[/i] built one?
STi/EVO in T2 and then you are talking....
[B]A guy on sccaforums.com noted that it would definitely spice up the variety of cars and bring more of the Fast and the Furious crowd to the tracks [/B][/QUOTE]
How is it going to bring the Import crowd out when no racer is going to be stupid enough to buy and build a horribly outmatched car? STi and EVO in T1 is laughable. That is viper and z06 territory.
And a T2 WRX isnt going to fare much better. The WRX was t2 legal all this year, has [i]anyone[/i] built one?
STi/EVO in T2 and then you are talking....
| enduroshark | 10-02-2003 09:55 AM |
The WRX was classified for T2 for 2004, not 2003.
I do agree with you that I don't think it will be competitive, unless SCCA gives it a good suspension package, and then just maybe.
Keeping all cats is going to choke them nicely powerwise.
All that being said, I bet that there will be some people that do try them. There are lots of people that want to race the cars they love at the expense of not having "the car to have" in the class.
It would take a hell of a package to allow the STi to compete with the Z06 in T1.
The STi and Evo in T2 might be a good match if they don't get any suspension package.
They stand a much better chance in Speed World Challenge.
I do agree with you that I don't think it will be competitive, unless SCCA gives it a good suspension package, and then just maybe.
Keeping all cats is going to choke them nicely powerwise.
All that being said, I bet that there will be some people that do try them. There are lots of people that want to race the cars they love at the expense of not having "the car to have" in the class.
It would take a hell of a package to allow the STi to compete with the Z06 in T1.
The STi and Evo in T2 might be a good match if they don't get any suspension package.
They stand a much better chance in Speed World Challenge.
| thechickencow | 10-21-2003 01:47 AM |
I'm curious...what type of modifications are allowed in these classes?
Coilovers?
Exhaust?
Ecu?
turbo?
stripped interior?
etc?
Coilovers?
Exhaust?
Ecu?
turbo?
stripped interior?
etc?
| dave bruener | 10-21-2003 11:50 AM |
In show room stock racing, which T1 and T2 fall under (right?) you put in a roll cage, a racing seat and harness. You can run DOT race tires and good brake pads. Not sure about cat back exhaust.
In SSA, SSB and SSC they were messing around with "trunk kits" that allowed approved spring and sway bar packages to level the playing field. I think that is being reconsidered though. Maybe some one actually doing this knows where the board is at on this.
In SSA, SSB and SSC they were messing around with "trunk kits" that allowed approved spring and sway bar packages to level the playing field. I think that is being reconsidered though. Maybe some one actually doing this knows where the board is at on this.
| AlexP | 10-22-2003 08:59 AM |
[QUOTE]and bring more of the Fast and the Furious crowd to the tracks[/QUOTE]
As spectators or entrants? Spectating at SCCA club racing events (divisionals, in particular) is not very easy.... Ever try and do it? You have to be an SCCA member and registered as pit crew to get into the track...
As spectators or entrants? Spectating at SCCA club racing events (divisionals, in particular) is not very easy.... Ever try and do it? You have to be an SCCA member and registered as pit crew to get into the track...
| DILLIGAF Racing | 10-22-2003 10:01 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AlexP [/i]
[B]As spectators or entrants? Spectating at SCCA club racing events (divisionals, in particular) is not very easy.... Ever try and do it? You have to be an SCCA member and registered as pit crew to get into the track... [/B][/QUOTE]
Or just pay a $10 spectator fee, and sign the waiver. At least thats what they do at one of the tracks we go to.
[B]As spectators or entrants? Spectating at SCCA club racing events (divisionals, in particular) is not very easy.... Ever try and do it? You have to be an SCCA member and registered as pit crew to get into the track... [/B][/QUOTE]
Or just pay a $10 spectator fee, and sign the waiver. At least thats what they do at one of the tracks we go to.
| ShockWave | 10-22-2003 10:28 AM |
Spectators are allowed at some tracks and in some regions. In the past SARRC hasn't allowed spectators at most tracks, but Moroso was an exception. Not sure if that is still the case.
Moroso also had the advantage that you could frequently make a double event out of it. Watch road racing all Saturday, watch drag racing all Saturday night!
As for the classifications, the Camaros have been dominate in every class they've been regulated to for the last 15 years at least. Tiptoe through the corners and beat everyone on the straight. You'd have to go to a pretty short and tight track to get one over on them, and there aren't to many tracks like that left. Only 2 of the 9 tracks here in the southeast would qualify, VIR and Roebling Road. In fact, short of making a class for turbo powered AWD cars (hmmm...STi vs. Evo vs S4, not a bad idea), I think you'd find the Subaru's getting outclassed wherever they get put, since it's unrealistic for them to be place in a class where'd they would dominate.
I think you'd have an easier time running an STi in the pro Speed GT World Challenge series than you would running in club racing. There you could politic for a fair setup.
Moroso also had the advantage that you could frequently make a double event out of it. Watch road racing all Saturday, watch drag racing all Saturday night!
As for the classifications, the Camaros have been dominate in every class they've been regulated to for the last 15 years at least. Tiptoe through the corners and beat everyone on the straight. You'd have to go to a pretty short and tight track to get one over on them, and there aren't to many tracks like that left. Only 2 of the 9 tracks here in the southeast would qualify, VIR and Roebling Road. In fact, short of making a class for turbo powered AWD cars (hmmm...STi vs. Evo vs S4, not a bad idea), I think you'd find the Subaru's getting outclassed wherever they get put, since it's unrealistic for them to be place in a class where'd they would dominate.
I think you'd have an easier time running an STi in the pro Speed GT World Challenge series than you would running in club racing. There you could politic for a fair setup.
| wdether | 10-27-2003 09:27 PM |
I am very surprised SCCA is considering adding turbo powered cars to club racing. Turbos/superchargers add another layer of complexity in determining compliance with the rules. These additions could shake up things in the various classes (more likely in T2).
Touring allows very limited modifications to the car (besides addition of a roll cage and racing seat): the air filter element can be changed; a cat-back exhaust may be subsituted under certain guidelines; the engine, including the turbo, has to be stock (except blueprinitng and balancing); the springs and antiroll bar shall remain stock (unless specified in vehicle specification line); shocks can be changed; brake pads can be changed; and the engine management system or ECU may be altered (of course the car has to meet federal emissions limits, wink, wink). The ECU modification may be a bit of an equalizer for the WRX and EVO.
I don't think the STI or EVO stands a chance against the Z06, Camaro SS, Viper, etc unless the two cars gets some type of weight break. The WRX might have a chance against the Firebird/Trans Am or Z-28 on the handling tracks (Lime Rock, Roebling Road, VIR, etc) and should be relatively even with the S2000 and Boxster. I will be very interested in seeing what weights will be given for the WRX and STi. The Mustang SVT Cobra has a weight of 3780 lbs w/driver (seems a bit heavy compared to Z06).
Spectators are allowed at many of the tracks (Lime Rock, The Glen, and Summit Point) in the Northeast.
I think life got a little tougher for the tech inspectors.
Touring allows very limited modifications to the car (besides addition of a roll cage and racing seat): the air filter element can be changed; a cat-back exhaust may be subsituted under certain guidelines; the engine, including the turbo, has to be stock (except blueprinitng and balancing); the springs and antiroll bar shall remain stock (unless specified in vehicle specification line); shocks can be changed; brake pads can be changed; and the engine management system or ECU may be altered (of course the car has to meet federal emissions limits, wink, wink). The ECU modification may be a bit of an equalizer for the WRX and EVO.
I don't think the STI or EVO stands a chance against the Z06, Camaro SS, Viper, etc unless the two cars gets some type of weight break. The WRX might have a chance against the Firebird/Trans Am or Z-28 on the handling tracks (Lime Rock, Roebling Road, VIR, etc) and should be relatively even with the S2000 and Boxster. I will be very interested in seeing what weights will be given for the WRX and STi. The Mustang SVT Cobra has a weight of 3780 lbs w/driver (seems a bit heavy compared to Z06).
Spectators are allowed at many of the tracks (Lime Rock, The Glen, and Summit Point) in the Northeast.
I think life got a little tougher for the tech inspectors.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 10-27-2003 09:34 PM |
Very good points. One thing about the inseption of Turbo cars, its only probationary (is that a word). So if it gets out of hand, and the SCCA gets scared of turbo cars again, or I would think if they don't get enough competitors, they will dump the cars.
| wdether | 10-27-2003 10:06 PM |
We shall see how the turbo cars do next year, I hope they do well in the classes. I would like to see a WRX or STi in a post race impound, doing a compliance inspection on one might be interesting (at least a stock WRX will be available for comparisons). T1 is getting rather boring with the Z06 parades and T2 isn't much better with the Camaro/Firebird domination. If I ran an EVO, WRX, or STi I would pray for rain all weekend (can you say Pocono)!
| enduroshark | 10-28-2003 11:10 AM |
Unless the WRX is allowed some kind of nice suspension and brake package, I don't think it stands a chance. It is going to torture tires and brakes too much. I don't see it being even with an S200 or Bosxter at all.
| tydon | 10-28-2003 12:24 PM |
they need to put the sti evo and wrx in a class that allows modifications to suspension etc. i agree that in t1 and 2 they will be spanked. it would be nice to see them in an IT class, but nationally, i cannot think of a class like this.
sadly for the wrx, i doubt if one could hang with my miata. they just don't have the handling to hang on a tight track, and the awd eats lots of power, in a car that is 1000# heavier.
sadly for the wrx, i doubt if one could hang with my miata. they just don't have the handling to hang on a tight track, and the awd eats lots of power, in a car that is 1000# heavier.
| alcrudojr #00 | 10-28-2003 09:35 PM |
Here in Puerto Rico we use the same car clasification as T1 and T2 of SCCA. We led the competitors use performance shocks/springs/swaybars, exhaust header, Full exhaust with at least one cat and a hi perf. ecu always using the stock one, Ex. UTEC, UNICHIP, DINAN CHIPS, etc. We use any DOT tires. On our local "T1" there is one Z06 and three E46 M3. They let the M3's use Coil overs and a 300lbs reduction to keep up with the vette's. They are doing fine with the times, the Z06 is around 1.26:50, and the M3's are in 1.25:6 to 1.27:5. All of them race with Hoosiers. I did on the same track with my STI on stock tires w/ Tein SS Coilovers, Header and TXS full exhaust a 1.27:7 so I believe that with Hoosier tires and a roll bar to stiffen things up I could lower from 1.5sec to 2 sec per lap so it will make it very competitive.
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