| pdesim | 08-04-2006 01:27 PM |
Use of harnesses???????
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I have been reading several threads about whether you need a roll cage in order to safely use harnesses in my WRX or any vehicle for that matter. Most of the answers that I have seen, explain the physics of a crash and how you will not be able to move to the side in a collision. My questions: If this is true, then why do all child car seats have a 5 point harness built into them? Is what I have been reading true?
| pio!pio! | 08-04-2006 01:31 PM |
Well if your head was down at the level of a baby's head then you would be fine...but since you are an adult..your head is much higher..so if the roof collapses ....you know the rest...
| Kostamojen | 08-04-2006 01:59 PM |
Schroth FTW
| Mykl | 08-04-2006 02:56 PM |
Having rolled an Impreza I can tell you that our b-pillar rollover protection is quite good. I have no problems with using a harness for autocrossing, although I might think twice about wearing one for track days... and I would never wear one on the street, with or without a roll bar.
In most cars you definitely want a roll bar with a harness. But the Impreza is safe enough that you can get away with it, although I would still prefer to have a roll bar.
In most cars you definitely want a roll bar with a harness. But the Impreza is safe enough that you can get away with it, although I would still prefer to have a roll bar.
| CirrusWRX | 08-04-2006 04:45 PM |
OMG PLEASE do not bring this topic up... You realize you just started WWIII (or are we already on WWIV?)
Either way, you will not get an answer on this topic - you will start a flame fest.
Either way, you will not get an answer on this topic - you will start a flame fest.
| ghschirtz | 08-04-2006 04:58 PM |
I wear a Schroth Quick Fit Harness on track days. It certainly is possible this is a bad choice under some circumstances, but otherwise it looks better than the OEM 3-point. The harness has an anti-submarine feature that surely is not as good as a fifth or sixth belt, but has been tested and approved by US DOT as being at least equivalent to the OEM belt system. I certainly feel better that both shoulders are restrained.
I wear the harness regularly on LA freeways, too, and on long trips. Not all the time, it depends on where I am going. The harness keeps my butt dyno well planted in the seat.
As you say, the Impreza has pretty good rollover strength. I am betting on that being enough, or not being a factor when a Bad Thing happens.
I crash tested a Volvo many years ago, pre-airbag, and a 3 point system was fine. I crash tested (was hit in the driver's door by a large Dodge sedan) a BMW 1600 when all I had was a manually adjustable lap belt, in 1970. Lucky for me the belt was there but loose, which minimized my injuries. Had it been tight, at best I would be paralyzed from the waist down. It kept me in the car but let me move out of the way a little. A normal 3 point system would have been worse, probably. A month in hospital and another on crutches, busted ribs and a collapsed lung...I hardly think about it anymore.
I don't disagree that you want to have a cage if you can. If you can't, then take your best shot. Maybe it works, maybe it don't. No reason to be fatalistic or (especially) stupid, but when God wants you, you are going to heed the call.
George
I wear the harness regularly on LA freeways, too, and on long trips. Not all the time, it depends on where I am going. The harness keeps my butt dyno well planted in the seat.
As you say, the Impreza has pretty good rollover strength. I am betting on that being enough, or not being a factor when a Bad Thing happens.
I crash tested a Volvo many years ago, pre-airbag, and a 3 point system was fine. I crash tested (was hit in the driver's door by a large Dodge sedan) a BMW 1600 when all I had was a manually adjustable lap belt, in 1970. Lucky for me the belt was there but loose, which minimized my injuries. Had it been tight, at best I would be paralyzed from the waist down. It kept me in the car but let me move out of the way a little. A normal 3 point system would have been worse, probably. A month in hospital and another on crutches, busted ribs and a collapsed lung...I hardly think about it anymore.
I don't disagree that you want to have a cage if you can. If you can't, then take your best shot. Maybe it works, maybe it don't. No reason to be fatalistic or (especially) stupid, but when God wants you, you are going to heed the call.
George
| Mykl | 08-04-2006 05:24 PM |
[QUOTE=CirrusWRX]OMG PLEASE do not bring this topic up... You realize you just started WWIII (or are we already on WWIV?)
Either way, you will not get an answer on this topic - you will start a flame fest.[/QUOTE]
wtf... is it not important to talk about safety?
If nothing else he can see what his options are with the pros and cons to each so he can make an informed decision.
Either way, you will not get an answer on this topic - you will start a flame fest.[/QUOTE]
wtf... is it not important to talk about safety?
If nothing else he can see what his options are with the pros and cons to each so he can make an informed decision.
| solo-x | 08-04-2006 11:34 PM |
i think it is funny that someone can think that in a wreck that crushes the roof of their car they are going to be able to stay in their seat to begin with using a factory belt. in a wreck, there are two impacts at a minimum. the first is your car hitting or being hit by something else. the second is YOU hitting the car. personally, i'll take my chances that the roof might get hammered down on my head in a multiple roll over. i figure i'd already be dead if i wasn't wearing the harness.
| Mykl | 08-05-2006 02:08 AM |
[QUOTE=solo-x]i think it is funny that someone can think that in a wreck that crushes the roof of their car they are going to be able to stay in their seat to begin with using a factory belt. in a wreck, there are two impacts at a minimum. the first is your car hitting or being hit by something else. the second is YOU hitting the car. personally, i'll take my chances that the roof might get hammered down on my head in a multiple roll over. i figure i'd already be dead if i wasn't wearing the harness.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://webpages.charter.net/myklbw/P5110036.jpg[/img]
I got three rolls out of this car. It hit a bump, left the ground, rolled all the way over to make it's first impact on the driver's side b-pillar... notice how it's *bent*. I was going about 80 mph when I lost control of the car. After it hit the b-pillar it rolled a couple more times and came to rest. This was a worst case situation where the part of the car right next to my head took the main impact.
The factory three point safety belt kept me in the car.
It did it's job exactly as it was supposed to do. I don't understand what makes you think the factory safety belt can't keep you in a car during a rollover. It's designed specifically to allow your upper torso to move towards the center of the car just in case the roof comes down on your head. If you're strapped in tight in a four or five point harness when the roof comes down on you the only part of your body that's going to move is your neck, which will get broken.
However, you will see that our b-pillar support is so strong that it's more safe to wear a harness in this car without a roll bar than almost any other car on the road. But don't question the factory safety belt, it does it's job quite well. I'm alive today because of it.
[img]http://webpages.charter.net/myklbw/P5110036.jpg[/img]
I got three rolls out of this car. It hit a bump, left the ground, rolled all the way over to make it's first impact on the driver's side b-pillar... notice how it's *bent*. I was going about 80 mph when I lost control of the car. After it hit the b-pillar it rolled a couple more times and came to rest. This was a worst case situation where the part of the car right next to my head took the main impact.
The factory three point safety belt kept me in the car.
It did it's job exactly as it was supposed to do. I don't understand what makes you think the factory safety belt can't keep you in a car during a rollover. It's designed specifically to allow your upper torso to move towards the center of the car just in case the roof comes down on your head. If you're strapped in tight in a four or five point harness when the roof comes down on you the only part of your body that's going to move is your neck, which will get broken.
However, you will see that our b-pillar support is so strong that it's more safe to wear a harness in this car without a roll bar than almost any other car on the road. But don't question the factory safety belt, it does it's job quite well. I'm alive today because of it.
| Mighty Subie | 08-05-2006 03:09 AM |
All of the tests on the pillars on Subaru cars have said that they are a lot stronger than the average cars.
| RS_Racer | 08-05-2006 08:55 AM |
[QUOTE=Mykl]
The factory three point safety belt kept me in the car.
It did it's job exactly as it was supposed to do. I don't understand what makes you think the factory safety belt can't keep you in a car during a rollover. It's designed specifically to allow your upper torso to move towards the center of the car just in case the roof comes down on your head. If you're strapped in tight in a four or five point harness when the roof comes down on you the only part of your body that's going to move is your neck, which will get broken.[/QUOTE]
Actually, from what I've read, your factory 3 pt seat belt works great, but in rollover situations it can allow your head and arms to exit the drivers side window. You were lucky in your situation that that did not happen. A harness belt would prevent that type of thing from happening.
The factory three point safety belt kept me in the car.
It did it's job exactly as it was supposed to do. I don't understand what makes you think the factory safety belt can't keep you in a car during a rollover. It's designed specifically to allow your upper torso to move towards the center of the car just in case the roof comes down on your head. If you're strapped in tight in a four or five point harness when the roof comes down on you the only part of your body that's going to move is your neck, which will get broken.[/QUOTE]
Actually, from what I've read, your factory 3 pt seat belt works great, but in rollover situations it can allow your head and arms to exit the drivers side window. You were lucky in your situation that that did not happen. A harness belt would prevent that type of thing from happening.
| CirrusWRX | 08-05-2006 11:21 AM |
[QUOTE=Mykl]wtf... is it not important to talk about safety?
If nothing else he can see what his options are with the pros and cons to each so he can make an informed decision.[/QUOTE]
OMG!!!!111 You're so smrat!!! I'm totally dissing safety because safety is for whussies!!!111
Talking about safety is a GREAT idea when it was talked about extensively for the last 3 years FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111
:rolleyes:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341443&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461590&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465475&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715339&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797230&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901693&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=968602&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
If nothing else he can see what his options are with the pros and cons to each so he can make an informed decision.[/QUOTE]
OMG!!!!111 You're so smrat!!! I'm totally dissing safety because safety is for whussies!!!111
Talking about safety is a GREAT idea when it was talked about extensively for the last 3 years FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111
:rolleyes:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341443&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461590&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465475&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715339&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797230&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901693&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=968602&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
| Mykl | 08-06-2006 01:41 AM |
[QUOTE=CirrusWRX]OMG!!!!111 You're so smrat!!! I'm totally dissing safety because safety is for whussies!!!111
Talking about safety is a GREAT idea when it was talked about extensively for the last 3 years FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111
:rolleyes:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341443&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461590&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465475&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715339&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797230&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901693&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=968602&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url][/QUOTE]
Don't be a ****ing douchebag. You went through so much effort to search and post those threads when you could have just ignored the subject entirely if it's something you didn't want to talk about.
Talking about safety is a GREAT idea when it was talked about extensively for the last 3 years FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111
:rolleyes:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341443&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461590&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465475&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715339&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797230&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901693&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=968602&highlight=harness+street+rollbar[/url][/QUOTE]
Don't be a ****ing douchebag. You went through so much effort to search and post those threads when you could have just ignored the subject entirely if it's something you didn't want to talk about.
| Mykl | 08-06-2006 01:44 AM |
[QUOTE=RS_Racer]Actually, from what I've read, your factory 3 pt seat belt works great, but in rollover situations it can allow your head and arms to exit the drivers side window. You were lucky in your situation that that did not happen. A harness belt would prevent that type of thing from happening.[/QUOTE]
...and as I said, a harness without a roll bar can allow the roof to come down on your neck and leave your body nowhere to go. So either way, you'd be lucky.
In most situations with most cars I'd be more comfortable with just a three point harness if I didn't have a roll bar. There are other less expensive safety devices that you can purchase to ensure your head and arms stay in the car in the event of a roll.
...and as I said, a harness without a roll bar can allow the roof to come down on your neck and leave your body nowhere to go. So either way, you'd be lucky.
In most situations with most cars I'd be more comfortable with just a three point harness if I didn't have a roll bar. There are other less expensive safety devices that you can purchase to ensure your head and arms stay in the car in the event of a roll.
| ghschirtz | 08-06-2006 05:43 PM |
I did not mention that I had to take strong evasive action on the Interstate this last February, returning from Taos. I had my harness on, and it seemed to help me keep control of the car. I don't feel as in control with the OEM belt, but clearly there are scenarios under which the belt would be advantageous by allowing movement of your body toward the center of the car as it crushed.
I think the majority of scenarios THAT I CAN SEE favor using the harness. I could be dead wrong, emnphasis on dead, about what really happens to me...if anything does. Individual decision, and God bless us all that we make the right ones.
George
I think the majority of scenarios THAT I CAN SEE favor using the harness. I could be dead wrong, emnphasis on dead, about what really happens to me...if anything does. Individual decision, and God bless us all that we make the right ones.
George
| HighLife | 08-06-2006 07:05 PM |
Two friends I race with have had very bad roll overs in WRX's on the circut. Both times they wore 4 point harness and no roll bar and both times the cars were basically destroyed. Both of them said later that if they hadnt been wearing a harness they feel they would not have escaped as unjury free as they did.
| theicewall | 08-06-2006 07:10 PM |
Without really skimming through all of this, if you are wearing it on the street... NO, because you cant check your blind spots, back-up, move around.
For autox, buy a clip in one and clip it in for race day and then either take it out or use your regular belt at other times.
For autox, buy a clip in one and clip it in for race day and then either take it out or use your regular belt at other times.
| ghschirtz | 08-07-2006 09:58 AM |
[QUOTE=theicewall]Without really skimming through all of this, if you are wearing it on the street... NO, because you cant check your blind spots, back-up, move around.
For autox, buy a clip in one and clip it in for race day and then either take it out or use your regular belt at other times.[/QUOTE]
Ice,
I have no problems covering my backside. I am in the habit of checking lane changes and backing up visually as well as using the mirrors, which do not have a full field of view. I use my peripheral vision to the max, but so far no problems. I do have to close the driver's door before locking down, and mobility in the cockpit is limited, compared to the 3-point, but external vision doesn't seem to be a problem except when I have a helmet on, and then I REALLY have to turn my head to make sure I am clear.
It does help to have a 250 degree range of motion on my head sensor (kidding, kidding...)
George
For autox, buy a clip in one and clip it in for race day and then either take it out or use your regular belt at other times.[/QUOTE]
Ice,
I have no problems covering my backside. I am in the habit of checking lane changes and backing up visually as well as using the mirrors, which do not have a full field of view. I use my peripheral vision to the max, but so far no problems. I do have to close the driver's door before locking down, and mobility in the cockpit is limited, compared to the 3-point, but external vision doesn't seem to be a problem except when I have a helmet on, and then I REALLY have to turn my head to make sure I am clear.
It does help to have a 250 degree range of motion on my head sensor (kidding, kidding...)
George
| theicewall | 08-07-2006 12:29 PM |
[QUOTE=ghschirtz]Ice,
I have no problems covering my backside. I am in the habit of checking lane changes and backing up visually as well as using the mirrors, which do not have a full field of view. I use my peripheral vision to the max, but so far no problems. I do have to close the driver's door before locking down, and mobility in the cockpit is limited, compared to the 3-point, but external vision doesn't seem to be a problem except when I have a helmet on, and then I REALLY have to turn my head to make sure I am clear.
It does help to have a 250 degree range of motion on my head sensor (kidding, kidding...)
George[/QUOTE]
Hahaha... I just dont like when I have my harness on the street. I feel really trapped. When Im on the track I keep the harness tight enough to keep me immobile in the stock seat during autox so that I dont need my left foot to do so, and that is very tight. If I were to losen it up a bit when on the street it kind of defeats the purpose of the harness. A regular seatbelt is designed to give a little bit and then stretch a tad to a stop, whereas the harness isnt. If you wear the harness loose enough to look over your right shoulder if you got into a front end accident you would fly foward taking up the slack in the harness and then suddenly stop which I wouldnt appreciate much. I guess Im just a big fan of the factory belt when Im on the street.
I have no problems covering my backside. I am in the habit of checking lane changes and backing up visually as well as using the mirrors, which do not have a full field of view. I use my peripheral vision to the max, but so far no problems. I do have to close the driver's door before locking down, and mobility in the cockpit is limited, compared to the 3-point, but external vision doesn't seem to be a problem except when I have a helmet on, and then I REALLY have to turn my head to make sure I am clear.
It does help to have a 250 degree range of motion on my head sensor (kidding, kidding...)
George[/QUOTE]
Hahaha... I just dont like when I have my harness on the street. I feel really trapped. When Im on the track I keep the harness tight enough to keep me immobile in the stock seat during autox so that I dont need my left foot to do so, and that is very tight. If I were to losen it up a bit when on the street it kind of defeats the purpose of the harness. A regular seatbelt is designed to give a little bit and then stretch a tad to a stop, whereas the harness isnt. If you wear the harness loose enough to look over your right shoulder if you got into a front end accident you would fly foward taking up the slack in the harness and then suddenly stop which I wouldnt appreciate much. I guess Im just a big fan of the factory belt when Im on the street.
| ghschirtz | 08-07-2006 01:43 PM |
^^^Yah, I do wear it a little less tight on the street, but not much. I can still see what I need to on track days, though, because I check visually as much as on the street and that is with a helmet cutting off some peripheral vision. I often run with people going faster than me so I am watching my back pretty carefully.
I understand your comfort issue, the harness is not so comfortable for long drives. given that that Interstates are generally safer despite higher speeds, maybe I am kidding myself there. Around LA, there are sufficient head cases that I feel less safe.
We likely are different sizes too, and what works for me might not for you. It is a very good point, though. You have to be eye-balls out, fore and aft, much of the time, to be safe on the street. If a harness prevents that, better to see, leave it at home.
George
I understand your comfort issue, the harness is not so comfortable for long drives. given that that Interstates are generally safer despite higher speeds, maybe I am kidding myself there. Around LA, there are sufficient head cases that I feel less safe.
We likely are different sizes too, and what works for me might not for you. It is a very good point, though. You have to be eye-balls out, fore and aft, much of the time, to be safe on the street. If a harness prevents that, better to see, leave it at home.
George
| MFR Sweep | 08-07-2006 02:02 PM |
just ask pastrana about arms comming out of windows WITH harnesses.
| MFR Sweep | 08-07-2006 02:02 PM |
just ask pastrana about arms comming out of windows WITH harnesses.
*cough* colorado cog *cough*
*cough* colorado cog *cough*
| theicewall | 08-07-2006 02:23 PM |
[QUOTE=MFR Sweep]just ask pastrana about arms comming out of windows WITH harnesses.[/QUOTE]
I forget which racing circuit requires it, I think maybe nascrap but there are these arm loop restraints that connect to the harness not allowing your arm to go out the window. But then you cant reach anything, perhaps not even the gear shifter which leads me to believe that maybe its one of the open wheeled cars w/ paddle shifter.
I forget which racing circuit requires it, I think maybe nascrap but there are these arm loop restraints that connect to the harness not allowing your arm to go out the window. But then you cant reach anything, perhaps not even the gear shifter which leads me to believe that maybe its one of the open wheeled cars w/ paddle shifter.
| Mykl | 08-07-2006 03:06 PM |
[QUOTE=theicewall]I forget which racing circuit requires it, I think maybe nascrap but there are these arm loop restraints that connect to the harness not allowing your arm to go out the window. But then you cant reach anything, perhaps not even the gear shifter which leads me to believe that maybe its one of the open wheeled cars w/ paddle shifter.[/QUOTE]
I believe it's also an SCCA requirement if you run time trails. You either have to have a net covering the window, or a loop restraint that you connect to the harness to keep your arms in.
I believe it's also an SCCA requirement if you run time trails. You either have to have a net covering the window, or a loop restraint that you connect to the harness to keep your arms in.
| ghschirtz | 08-07-2006 04:49 PM |
^^^At Bondurant we had loops tied to the harness to keep our arms inside the Formula Fords. There was no problem in reaching what you had to-just the shifter. I did make the most majestic of spins of all my class while in FF's, but didn't test the loops further than that. This was in 1996.
George
George
| REDrum | 08-08-2006 02:01 PM |
The same weekend I was in my first rally car roll, my cousin was in a street collision. I launched off a boulder @ ~30MPH and rolled while wearing a 5pt harnesses in a 89 golf; and walked away with nothing but a bruised ego.
My cousin was in an oblique head on @ a closing impact speed of ~32MPH (after both cars hit the brakes). (Mall parking lot...) He had severe contusions and lacerations from the asymmetry of the 3pt belt, air bag going off, and right hand that went through the windshield...
He is now looking at Schroth 4pt for daily use and possibly Sparco seats to give him 2" more head room; despite is years of believing you need a roll bar if you use harness.
Yes the two incidents are different (more coincidence than anything), but the resulting injuries are counter intuitive.
Since spending more and more time in a 5pt, my daily driver 3pt just don't give me the confidence that I'll be protected in a front impact or roll; albeit, I'm sure the stats prove otherwise.
I don't think there is a clear point on 'harness or not to harness' on the street; I'm sure there are accident scenarios which can support ether scheme. Its the airbags that are starting to worry me.
My cousin was in an oblique head on @ a closing impact speed of ~32MPH (after both cars hit the brakes). (Mall parking lot...) He had severe contusions and lacerations from the asymmetry of the 3pt belt, air bag going off, and right hand that went through the windshield...
He is now looking at Schroth 4pt for daily use and possibly Sparco seats to give him 2" more head room; despite is years of believing you need a roll bar if you use harness.
Yes the two incidents are different (more coincidence than anything), but the resulting injuries are counter intuitive.
Since spending more and more time in a 5pt, my daily driver 3pt just don't give me the confidence that I'll be protected in a front impact or roll; albeit, I'm sure the stats prove otherwise.
I don't think there is a clear point on 'harness or not to harness' on the street; I'm sure there are accident scenarios which can support ether scheme. Its the airbags that are starting to worry me.
| franke3c | 08-08-2006 02:21 PM |
Simple fix: drive slower on public roads!
^^ 32mph impact speed in parking lot (15 mph per car roughly), aren't parking lots supposed to be 5mph zones?
^^ 32mph impact speed in parking lot (15 mph per car roughly), aren't parking lots supposed to be 5mph zones?
| REDrum | 08-08-2006 03:09 PM |
[QUOTE=franke3c] aren't parking lots supposed to be 5mph zones?[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: Thats a good one....
:lol: :lol: Thats a good one....
| HighLife | 08-08-2006 07:14 PM |
On the street I cant wear one, its just dangerous, I do not have the freedom of movement(field of view) required to see whats happening around the car with traffic, pedestrians etc. Not to mention I can hardly reach the dash controls for radio, heater etc. I wore one on the street for a few days and eventually had to get rid it of it as it was dangerous and annoying.
| ghschirtz | 08-08-2006 07:41 PM |
REDrum,
Your cousin's experience is exactly the scenario where I think a Schroth 4pt would be superior to the OEM 3pt. I don't like the idea of an explosive device in my face, even if the government (which loves me so much as long as I do as I am told by its minders and pay for the privilige of their attentions) thinks it is in my best interest.
I can see enough to be safe. I am sorry if others cannot. Each to his own.
George
Your cousin's experience is exactly the scenario where I think a Schroth 4pt would be superior to the OEM 3pt. I don't like the idea of an explosive device in my face, even if the government (which loves me so much as long as I do as I am told by its minders and pay for the privilige of their attentions) thinks it is in my best interest.
I can see enough to be safe. I am sorry if others cannot. Each to his own.
George
| solo-x | 08-08-2006 07:50 PM |
i wonder when they are going to install the airbags in the I-90 tunnel to logan....
nate
nate
| hawk30 | 08-09-2006 05:14 AM |
If its designed to allow you to move twoards the center Like you claim explain the belts in a Dodge Viper
The belts close the opposte way. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Mykl] I got three rolls out of this car. It hit a bump, left the ground, rolled all the way over to make it's first impact on the driver's side b-pillar... notice how it's *bent*. I was going about 80 mph when I lost control of the car. After it hit the b-pillar it rolled a couple more times and came to rest. This was a worst case situation where the part of the car right next to my head took the main impact.
The factory three point safety belt kept me in the car.
It did it's job exactly as it was supposed to do. I don't understand what makes you think the factory safety belt can't keep you in a car during a rollover. It's designed specifically to allow your upper torso to move towards the center of the car just in case the roof comes down on your head. If you're strapped in tight in a four or five point harness when the roof comes down on you the only part of your body that's going to move is your neck, which will get broken.
However, you will see that our b-pillar support is so strong that it's more safe to wear a harness in this car without a roll bar than almost any other car on the road. But don't question the factory safety belt, it does it's job quite well. I'm alive today because of it.[/QUOTE]
The belts close the opposte way. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Mykl] I got three rolls out of this car. It hit a bump, left the ground, rolled all the way over to make it's first impact on the driver's side b-pillar... notice how it's *bent*. I was going about 80 mph when I lost control of the car. After it hit the b-pillar it rolled a couple more times and came to rest. This was a worst case situation where the part of the car right next to my head took the main impact.
The factory three point safety belt kept me in the car.
It did it's job exactly as it was supposed to do. I don't understand what makes you think the factory safety belt can't keep you in a car during a rollover. It's designed specifically to allow your upper torso to move towards the center of the car just in case the roof comes down on your head. If you're strapped in tight in a four or five point harness when the roof comes down on you the only part of your body that's going to move is your neck, which will get broken.
However, you will see that our b-pillar support is so strong that it's more safe to wear a harness in this car without a roll bar than almost any other car on the road. But don't question the factory safety belt, it does it's job quite well. I'm alive today because of it.[/QUOTE]
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