| Bugsie1 | 01-21-2002 01:12 PM |
WRC TV coverage on Speedvision...opinions
In great anticipation I sat down everynight this weekend to watch the "extended" WRC coverage.
What a terrible disappointment it all was.
No structure, no story, no drama, no insight, no style, crappy editing, terrible commentary, repeated video clips ... a very bad use of all their resources.
Now we get an hour show which is 50% filler video.... it's like "I know lets just repeat lots of endless in car footage, that'll fill up the hour..." NO!!!
Let's hope it's just early for the TV team, otherwise the FIA need to get a new Director/Producer in to sort it out.
- Richard
(the guys who used to do the same day stuff for Top Gear in the UK did an amazing job comparitively, so it can be done)
What a terrible disappointment it all was.
No structure, no story, no drama, no insight, no style, crappy editing, terrible commentary, repeated video clips ... a very bad use of all their resources.
Now we get an hour show which is 50% filler video.... it's like "I know lets just repeat lots of endless in car footage, that'll fill up the hour..." NO!!!
Let's hope it's just early for the TV team, otherwise the FIA need to get a new Director/Producer in to sort it out.
- Richard
(the guys who used to do the same day stuff for Top Gear in the UK did an amazing job comparitively, so it can be done)
| cvalle-sd | 01-21-2002 01:42 PM |
I luv it. :D More in-car, fresh from the day's action. Job well done, that is!
| gtguy | 01-21-2002 01:50 PM |
You're kidding, right? No it isn't the typical American "We'll tell you everything that you're seeing on the field and figure it out for you so that you don't have to worry about any of that." It's probably as close as we're going to get to live rally coverage, and it's fabulous. I don't have a word of complaint, except that techno opening theme is too darned long. :D
And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's also same-day coverage.
Plenty of in-car, talking to drivers, explanation of things that might be going on behind the scenes. I don't know what more I could ask for, except for more in-car with Colin McRae. :D
Ultimately, it's a gift horse that I won't stare in the mouth. It's about the same overall production quality as the wrapup shows, only it's as the rally progresses, not a month later.
Kevin
And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's also same-day coverage.
Plenty of in-car, talking to drivers, explanation of things that might be going on behind the scenes. I don't know what more I could ask for, except for more in-car with Colin McRae. :D
Ultimately, it's a gift horse that I won't stare in the mouth. It's about the same overall production quality as the wrapup shows, only it's as the rally progresses, not a month later.
Kevin
| Rickd | 01-21-2002 01:54 PM |
I agree with Bugsie. While it is nice to see so much more coverage time wise, it is certainly not up to the standards of previous years.
They also seem to be pretty biased toward the British drivers. Lot's of footage of some has been named Burns ;) running in 7th place, and tons of footage of Mcrae, even though he had the sun visor pulled down and you could only see about 30' in front of the car.
Let's hope they get better as the season go's along
They also seem to be pretty biased toward the British drivers. Lot's of footage of some has been named Burns ;) running in 7th place, and tons of footage of Mcrae, even though he had the sun visor pulled down and you could only see about 30' in front of the car.
Let's hope they get better as the season go's along
| patr | 01-21-2002 01:57 PM |
actually (I didn't tape it but I am sure I am correct on this)
they showed the exact same clips of colin/nicky in-car twice in the same show, but at different times, with a different 'story'\
then again, they showed near the end of the show a 'nicky' face cam, where it was EXACTLY the same place that they showed the in-car already twice before (6 R- into 4L.... 6L and LR 6R line...)
You can tell that from the notes, they are exactly the same (I realized this because I was listening to the notes when they were playing the in-car).
Although coverage is great, that is an example of cutting some corners to get the same-day coverage out. I am sure that the directors know that what they did is lame, and that they probably wont do it ever again. If they did, I would be surprised because anyone who has rallied with notes will know most of the 'and here we join them on the last stage' is all faked out...
and yes, I know of course that some rallies you can have exact smae notes in some places, but exact same notes over 20 corners, no way. Well, there is a chance, but I like my theory better .... I wish I taped it so I could check.
-Pat
they showed the exact same clips of colin/nicky in-car twice in the same show, but at different times, with a different 'story'\
then again, they showed near the end of the show a 'nicky' face cam, where it was EXACTLY the same place that they showed the in-car already twice before (6 R- into 4L.... 6L and LR 6R line...)
You can tell that from the notes, they are exactly the same (I realized this because I was listening to the notes when they were playing the in-car).
Although coverage is great, that is an example of cutting some corners to get the same-day coverage out. I am sure that the directors know that what they did is lame, and that they probably wont do it ever again. If they did, I would be surprised because anyone who has rallied with notes will know most of the 'and here we join them on the last stage' is all faked out...
and yes, I know of course that some rallies you can have exact smae notes in some places, but exact same notes over 20 corners, no way. Well, there is a chance, but I like my theory better .... I wish I taped it so I could check.
-Pat
| SubaruStu | 01-21-2002 02:05 PM |
I got to say that I am not a big fan of that much in-car footage.
Like someone else said - you don't get to see much with McRae's
visor down, and yipee for face-cam shots of the drivers. I thought
that day 2 was better than day1 though, and I'll watch day 3
tonight.
All in all, given that we surmised that NASCAR was going to take
over, three and a half hours of coverage is pretty good!
Stu
Like someone else said - you don't get to see much with McRae's
visor down, and yipee for face-cam shots of the drivers. I thought
that day 2 was better than day1 though, and I'll watch day 3
tonight.
All in all, given that we surmised that NASCAR was going to take
over, three and a half hours of coverage is pretty good!
Stu
| Dussander | 01-21-2002 02:08 PM |
If you don't like the new style I suggest just watching the 5th day of coverage. (On tonight, January 21, 2002, same time) That should be nearly identical to what we got last year. I love all the extra footage though so I will watch all 4.5 hours per race. ;)
| Benno | 01-21-2002 02:31 PM |
I think the in car coverage gives you a real feel for what goes on in a rally - long periods of sustained, strained intensity, one blindingly quick turn after another. Its amazing to me how concentrated they must be over such a long period of time. Its an endurance sport, and the extended in car shots show you that. Plus it gives me an opportunity to watch the drivers moves confronting different obstacles. I could see what kind of turn a driver used his handbrake on, and when it was used what the timing was relative to the turn, and to see it more than once. Plus, having long clips like that gave me a chance to try to snyc the pacenotes with the upcoming turns, which I usually can't do.
Regarding the indentical pacenotes: they may very well have used the same footage more than once, I don't know. However, its true that more than one of the stages were run twice during the same day. Could be that the identical pacenotes were due to them running an identical stage...
Regarding the indentical pacenotes: they may very well have used the same footage more than once, I don't know. However, its true that more than one of the stages were run twice during the same day. Could be that the identical pacenotes were due to them running an identical stage...
| Bugsie1 | 01-21-2002 04:13 PM |
They did repeat a whole lot of video that's for sure. I'm pretty sure they even threw in some video from the previous day on
one of the last two shows.
There was 2 bits I did like.. they showed Burns climbing the mountain taking some hairpins, they mixed in-car and helicopter shots but kept Reid's in-car pace note Audio going the whole time. It was cool to look down from the helicopter and see the car take the hairpin but hear the noise from inside the car, the whole sequence was very nicely done.
Other highlight... in-car with Mcrae... god damn that guy pushes that Focus some times, shame about the visor though.
I think the show needs a personality (a Tiff Needel type) to do interviews and do pre-recorded features etc, maybe more? Also, I don't like the voice of the new guy, the old guy from last season was much better.
- Richard.
one of the last two shows.
There was 2 bits I did like.. they showed Burns climbing the mountain taking some hairpins, they mixed in-car and helicopter shots but kept Reid's in-car pace note Audio going the whole time. It was cool to look down from the helicopter and see the car take the hairpin but hear the noise from inside the car, the whole sequence was very nicely done.
Other highlight... in-car with Mcrae... god damn that guy pushes that Focus some times, shame about the visor though.
I think the show needs a personality (a Tiff Needel type) to do interviews and do pre-recorded features etc, maybe more? Also, I don't like the voice of the new guy, the old guy from last season was much better.
- Richard.
| WRX Pilot | 01-21-2002 04:21 PM |
It's Awesome!
What do you wan't for "same day coverage"? :mad:
If you only wan't the fluff then don't watch and wait till Monday night, which is still just a day after the event.
Would you rather wait two or three weeks after the fact to see the coverage. Give me a break.:mad:
If you only wan't the fluff then don't watch and wait till Monday night, which is still just a day after the event.
Would you rather wait two or three weeks after the fact to see the coverage. Give me a break.:mad:
| wrxclnt | 01-21-2002 04:51 PM |
I really like the same day coverage, especially when the 1 hr summary is on quicker than last year. I especially like the in car footage, though the visor being down in McCrae's car made it hard to see what was coming up, the rest of it was great.
If you are bored by the in car stuff try listening to the pace notes and figuring out how far in advance and in what detail the turns are being called. I can't believe how much information is being tossed out while driving at full tilt.
Great job Speedvision ...er Speed Channel for putting this on!
Now if we could only get something remotely close for rallying in the US.
If you are bored by the in car stuff try listening to the pace notes and figuring out how far in advance and in what detail the turns are being called. I can't believe how much information is being tossed out while driving at full tilt.
Great job Speedvision ...er Speed Channel for putting this on!
Now if we could only get something remotely close for rallying in the US.
| lgkahn | 01-21-2002 05:47 PM |
There definately was same coverage .. I taped it on my tivo box and verified it.
I thought the in car was a little to long.. especially when they were in other languages and I couldn't understand.
I also hated the damn puegot in car coverage.. that high pitched noise drove me nuts.... don't know if it was the mics or how they put up with it in the actual car.
I found myself fast forwarding through many of the too long in car parts.. Other than that I thought it was pretty cool.
I thought the in car was a little to long.. especially when they were in other languages and I couldn't understand.
I also hated the damn puegot in car coverage.. that high pitched noise drove me nuts.... don't know if it was the mics or how they put up with it in the actual car.
I found myself fast forwarding through many of the too long in car parts.. Other than that I thought it was pretty cool.
| ninrex | 01-21-2002 08:23 PM |
First it won their hearts...
If I see that ad one more time I'm going to scream!!! I wonder if Subaru was aware that the WRC was on when they were running their ads. Ha. And I used to love watching WRX commercials.
Yeah, McRae's sun visor was bothersome. "We're sorry Mr. McRae, but we're going to have to ask you to put up your visor so that our viewers at home have a more pleasurable viewing experience." Don't think that'll happen any time soon. Maybe they could just find a better mounting spot for the camera.
The cameras on the front of the car were awesome! It kind of felt like switching views in Gran Turismo.
If I see that ad one more time I'm going to scream!!! I wonder if Subaru was aware that the WRC was on when they were running their ads. Ha. And I used to love watching WRX commercials.
Yeah, McRae's sun visor was bothersome. "We're sorry Mr. McRae, but we're going to have to ask you to put up your visor so that our viewers at home have a more pleasurable viewing experience." Don't think that'll happen any time soon. Maybe they could just find a better mounting spot for the camera.
The cameras on the front of the car were awesome! It kind of felt like switching views in Gran Turismo.
| ForzaF1 | 01-21-2002 08:45 PM |
Overall I enjoyed the coverage. Given that it is same-day coverage I think they are doing quite a good job. Presumably this coverage is produced for the UK, with a few extra kines added for "SpeedVision" there does seem to be more coverage of the UK dirvers, and not enough coverage of the Subarus!
Given the amount of time they have to prepare the show for air, I think it is very good. I am sure that tonight's (Mon Jan 21) show will be more like the 1 hour highlight shows we have seen on SV in the past.
So long as they get F1 again this year (rumor has it that SV will have all but 4 races (Indy, Brazil? Canada?, Monaco?) on live and have same day replays of all the races) and keep the weekends free for "real" (road/rally/non-NASCAR) racing I'll be happy :)
Given the amount of time they have to prepare the show for air, I think it is very good. I am sure that tonight's (Mon Jan 21) show will be more like the 1 hour highlight shows we have seen on SV in the past.
So long as they get F1 again this year (rumor has it that SV will have all but 4 races (Indy, Brazil? Canada?, Monaco?) on live and have same day replays of all the races) and keep the weekends free for "real" (road/rally/non-NASCAR) racing I'll be happy :)
| Imprezard | 01-21-2002 09:00 PM |
Yeah, afterall they only had a few hours to edit whatever footage they had and air it. Although the organization is a bit messy, it's still pretty good. Consider was had to wait for about a month for each of the rallies last year.
Also the production team is rather new, I think it'll get better.
If you like the better editted version, just watch the 5th day (like today)'s rally review. I guess it'll be similar to what we used to watch last year.
Also the production team is rather new, I think it'll get better.
If you like the better editted version, just watch the 5th day (like today)'s rally review. I guess it'll be similar to what we used to watch last year.
| Subie Gal | 01-21-2002 09:07 PM |
ummmm
yeah there are loads of commercials... etc.. etc...
but...
a few years ago... we had [b] no rally tv coverage [/b]
u wont hear me complaining... ;)
beggars cant be choosers!
i imagine tonights review will be top notch as always!
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
yeah there are loads of commercials... etc.. etc...
but...
a few years ago... we had [b] no rally tv coverage [/b]
u wont hear me complaining... ;)
beggars cant be choosers!
i imagine tonights review will be top notch as always!
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
| Imprezer | 01-21-2002 10:03 PM |
I lived in europe most of my life and have never seen a complete WRC event coverage. I watched same 30min per Leg coverages.
When I saw the almost live coverage this past weekend I was stoked. 1 day old rally coverage in US? YEEEeeeha!
I think that is the best thing since sliced bread.
-Alex
When I saw the almost live coverage this past weekend I was stoked. 1 day old rally coverage in US? YEEEeeeha!
I think that is the best thing since sliced bread.
-Alex
| MrSwede | 01-22-2002 12:08 AM |
It was a-w-e-s-o-m-e!! I was surprised to see someone complaining considering the coverage we have suffered in the past.
BTW, what's so special about sliced bread?
BTW, what's so special about sliced bread?
| Rally-RS | 01-22-2002 01:01 AM |
Tommi sez, "OK, well, you know, a sure, a the coverage, you know is good."
I like the in car for sure, and like to watch when someone is really crankin it up on a stage, and it seemed Gronholm and McCrae were the tops. Not much of loeb though.
One other thought.
I will TAPE the airings and play them back to bypass the ads.
I had to do that as I was out this weekend, and watched the first 3 days tonight, till 1AM, and I have to go to work early tomorrow, it was that intense. Even more so for continuity to bypass the ads.
[b]WAIT FOR THE FAST RALLIES!!![/b]
Sweden is FAST!
I like the in car for sure, and like to watch when someone is really crankin it up on a stage, and it seemed Gronholm and McCrae were the tops. Not much of loeb though.
One other thought.
I will TAPE the airings and play them back to bypass the ads.
I had to do that as I was out this weekend, and watched the first 3 days tonight, till 1AM, and I have to go to work early tomorrow, it was that intense. Even more so for continuity to bypass the ads.
[b]WAIT FOR THE FAST RALLIES!!![/b]
Sweden is FAST!
| Clegg | 01-22-2002 01:29 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Subie Gal [/i]
[B]ummmm
yeah there are loads of commercials... etc.. etc...
but...
a few years ago... we had [b] no rally tv coverage [/b]
u wont hear me complaining... ;)
beggars cant be choosers!
i imagine tonights review will be top notch as always!
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
There is barely 1 more commercial in the new coverage Vs the last. ( I know cause I have been editing 2001 WRC footage for the last 3 weeks, and now am editing the 2002 footage, and there is only like 30 sec of more commercials at the most than there was in 2001.)
I liked the incar coverage, I loved it before and now that they have nice 4 - 5 min segments of incar running, I am happy with it. Hell, with the Battle of the Finn's this year I am almost learning Finnish from the co drivers ;)
[B]ummmm
yeah there are loads of commercials... etc.. etc...
but...
a few years ago... we had [b] no rally tv coverage [/b]
u wont hear me complaining... ;)
beggars cant be choosers!
i imagine tonights review will be top notch as always!
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
There is barely 1 more commercial in the new coverage Vs the last. ( I know cause I have been editing 2001 WRC footage for the last 3 weeks, and now am editing the 2002 footage, and there is only like 30 sec of more commercials at the most than there was in 2001.)
I liked the incar coverage, I loved it before and now that they have nice 4 - 5 min segments of incar running, I am happy with it. Hell, with the Battle of the Finn's this year I am almost learning Finnish from the co drivers ;)
| aspera | 01-22-2002 01:29 AM |
Why do I now want to buy a Leyland tractor? Is it because "in a Mini, you don't have to prove a thing"? I can't get that out of my head. It's all starting to blend together. I'm imagining Colin and Nicky driving the Mini with the jingle playing in the background. :)
The Mini, first it won their hearts...
I'm sure those commercials were good in their day, but I feel sorry for you guys who had to watch that bull's balls on your big screen TV over and over and over. What is wrong with Speedvision? Those guys will air anything.
The Mini, first it won their hearts...
I'm sure those commercials were good in their day, but I feel sorry for you guys who had to watch that bull's balls on your big screen TV over and over and over. What is wrong with Speedvision? Those guys will air anything.
| aspera | 01-22-2002 01:36 AM |
in a Mini...you don't have to prove a thing
I couldn't even figure out LEFT and RIGHT in Finnish. Anybody know? The German dudes were cool, though. Some languages sound more efficient than others.
| TimStevens | 01-22-2002 07:56 AM |
Speaking of co-driver languages, why is it that Petter has a british co-driver? Isn't he Scandanavian?
And as much as I loved the coverage, having the same footage over and over again was really lame. There was the same exact footage from the nose of someone's car played on each of the 3 shows.
But, I'm sure they'll get better at it, and I can't wait for the next rally :)
-tim
And as much as I loved the coverage, having the same footage over and over again was really lame. There was the same exact footage from the nose of someone's car played on each of the 3 shows.
But, I'm sure they'll get better at it, and I can't wait for the next rally :)
-tim
| ninrex | 01-22-2002 09:36 AM |
Seems like the one hour summary show at the end of the rally is what we got last year. So in effect we get 3 extra hours of coverage this year, not bad! Although was it just me or was there no new footage on the summary show? Seemed like the first three days was raw, barely edited footage, and the last day they took all of that footage and made a bigger production out of it. Although I don't remember all of that night footage. Anyway, I'm pleasantly surprised that they would even air the first three nights!
On a side note, maybe if Speedvision showed real commercials instead of all those old car commercials, we wouldn't have to watch infomercials for the Bowflex all the time. Ha ha, oh well. Not complaining about the rally coverage!
On a side note, maybe if Speedvision showed real commercials instead of all those old car commercials, we wouldn't have to watch infomercials for the Bowflex all the time. Ha ha, oh well. Not complaining about the rally coverage!
| TimStevens | 01-22-2002 09:42 AM |
Hey, I'd rather get that Mini song stuck in my head for the rest of the night than see Billy May try to sell me some sort of crap.
Nothing against Billy May, I went as him for Haloween last year, but he does get a bit annoying.
-tim
Nothing against Billy May, I went as him for Haloween last year, but he does get a bit annoying.
-tim
| Idjiit | 01-22-2002 10:30 AM |
I would imagine the WRC team is just biding their time until the full Virtual Spectator system comes online for them. The repetitive video stuff is annoying, but you can be sure it's going to get much much btter.
| tensionrev | 01-22-2002 11:05 AM |
dig it all. However, I would like to see more of the other cars and drivers ie. Toshi Arai, Skoda, and Hyundai's offerings. Not that I don't like T Mac, C MC, M Gron, Dick Burns, or the Matador, just wider coverage would be nice. Maybe more interviews. Good job otherwise.
| brainrally | 01-22-2002 12:16 PM |
Well, since I'm rather unsophisticated when it comes to rally (since I've only just taken an interest in the past year), I'm rather excited by the rally coverage we had.
Granted, they did seem to spend a lot of time on the Brits (I would've liked a bit more Tommi coverage, and Loeb coverage, since they were at the front, fighting for first).
It did also seem that there were a few clips repeated. I do agree it could've been a bit better, but I'm happy with it just the same. As for the extended in-car footage, I really got into watching the clips pointed at the road. I didn't much care for watching Francois Delecour gritting his teeth for five minutes (whoopee). I want to see the road. I think the best camera position is behind the driver pointed out the window. That way you can see the road, and watch what the driver does. I also got into listening to the the co-driver reading the pace notes and trying to match what the said to what the road was like and what the driver did.
I don't need a lot of commentary. I just like watching the drive. I do hope their coverage and editing gets better.
Granted, they did seem to spend a lot of time on the Brits (I would've liked a bit more Tommi coverage, and Loeb coverage, since they were at the front, fighting for first).
It did also seem that there were a few clips repeated. I do agree it could've been a bit better, but I'm happy with it just the same. As for the extended in-car footage, I really got into watching the clips pointed at the road. I didn't much care for watching Francois Delecour gritting his teeth for five minutes (whoopee). I want to see the road. I think the best camera position is behind the driver pointed out the window. That way you can see the road, and watch what the driver does. I also got into listening to the the co-driver reading the pace notes and trying to match what the said to what the road was like and what the driver did.
I don't need a lot of commentary. I just like watching the drive. I do hope their coverage and editing gets better.
| MattJP | 01-22-2002 12:45 PM |
I picked up digital cable late last season just so i could see the WRC. Same day coverage is awesome! Some of the in car can be a little bit boring (McCrae's visor kept me trying to look under it!)
And yeah, those pugs...
[I]I also hated the damn puegot in car coverage.. that high pitched noise drove me nuts.... don't know if it was the mics or how they put up with it in the actual car. [/I]
reminded me of a bad trip to the dentist!
I'd like to see them have more stuff geared toward the novices like me who are just learning whats it all about....
All in all, fantastic!
And yeah, those pugs...
[I]I also hated the damn puegot in car coverage.. that high pitched noise drove me nuts.... don't know if it was the mics or how they put up with it in the actual car. [/I]
reminded me of a bad trip to the dentist!
I'd like to see them have more stuff geared toward the novices like me who are just learning whats it all about....
All in all, fantastic!
| UCI_Scott | 01-22-2002 05:12 PM |
Loved the coverage.
The [b]only[/b] negative is the girlfriend's dismay at 4.5 hours of coverage spread out over 5 days as opposed to the old .5 hour several-week-old summary.
I totally loved the prolonged in-cars and following the cars through several linked hairpins.
--scott
The [b]only[/b] negative is the girlfriend's dismay at 4.5 hours of coverage spread out over 5 days as opposed to the old .5 hour several-week-old summary.
I totally loved the prolonged in-cars and following the cars through several linked hairpins.
--scott
| aspera | 01-23-2002 01:22 AM |
In a Mini
you don't have to prove a thing.
you don't have to prove a thing.
| Dub_Sub | 01-23-2002 03:43 PM |
I was very pleased. Got to say i did notice alot of repitition as well.
But anyone look at the brakes on the subie during the night stages. How and the hell do those things stop with the brakes glowing red like that. I recorded on tivo and slo-mod that part.
When he applied the brakes it looked like sparks were shooting off of the disc.
Extended coverage rulez
But anyone look at the brakes on the subie during the night stages. How and the hell do those things stop with the brakes glowing red like that. I recorded on tivo and slo-mod that part.
When he applied the brakes it looked like sparks were shooting off of the disc.
Extended coverage rulez
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