| screamindean | 07-22-2005 02:55 AM |
WRX D Stock front sway bar
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I run an 02 WRX in DS for autoX. I hear that, oddly enough, a larger front sway bar on a WRX will improve times and not just make an understeering beast.
Currently suspension is stock with AGX struts and some A032 road racing tires.
First question: Is this true? Seems wrong.
Second: If so, how much bar is best? I have seen up to a race application 27mm bar from Whiteline. If more is good, is more still better?
Thanks
Dean
Currently suspension is stock with AGX struts and some A032 road racing tires.
First question: Is this true? Seems wrong.
Second: If so, how much bar is best? I have seen up to a race application 27mm bar from Whiteline. If more is good, is more still better?
Thanks
Dean
| cooleyjb | 07-22-2005 09:54 AM |
Yes it does seem wrong but it isn't. What you get by adding the front bar is a better camber curve so you stop running on the outer edge of your tires. If you get someone ot take pics of your car in the heart of a turn you can see the outside front tire in serious positive camber.
I think you could go too far with it. I think a 24mm front bar or so would be great with some really well setup custom valved shocks. You'd definetly be in the hunt at ProSolos and could be in it with a bunch of DS cars.
I think you could go too far with it. I think a 24mm front bar or so would be great with some really well setup custom valved shocks. You'd definetly be in the hunt at ProSolos and could be in it with a bunch of DS cars.
| MulletSlayer | 07-22-2005 10:15 AM |
The larger bar makes a big improvement.
I have a 24mm bar on my wagon and it seems to work really well. I think I remember one of the guys who know what their talking about saying it is possible to go to big.
I have a 24mm bar on my wagon and it seems to work really well. I think I remember one of the guys who know what their talking about saying it is possible to go to big.
| copterdr | 07-22-2005 12:08 PM |
It sure helped you out. Are you going to SB Xcross the 7th?
| endeavor | 07-22-2005 12:11 PM |
[QUOTE=MulletSlayer]The larger bar makes a big improvement.
I have a 24mm bar on my wagon and it seems to work really well. I think I remember one of the guys who know what their talking about saying it is possible to go to big.[/QUOTE]
My novice understanding of this is that you want a big enough front bar to maintain negative camber, as previously mentioned. If you go TOO big then the front end becomes so rigid that the inside tire will lift off the tarmac on hard turns and then you will have some serious understeer.
I have a 24mm bar on my wagon and it seems to work really well. I think I remember one of the guys who know what their talking about saying it is possible to go to big.[/QUOTE]
My novice understanding of this is that you want a big enough front bar to maintain negative camber, as previously mentioned. If you go TOO big then the front end becomes so rigid that the inside tire will lift off the tarmac on hard turns and then you will have some serious understeer.
| MulletSlayer | 07-22-2005 12:12 PM |
I keep telling you to buy one. Yeah I'll be there are you going to show up.
| copterdr | 07-22-2005 12:18 PM |
I will try to make the SB event. At least it's not at the tire rack this time.
| leecea | 07-22-2005 01:03 PM |
I've not heard of anyone running more than 24mm on a DS car. Maybe no one has tested a bigger one. I know I just followed the crowd and went with 24mm because it was the easiest approach.
| MattDell | 07-22-2005 01:04 PM |
I'll never understand how different struts and a larger swaybar are allowed in "stock" classes.
-Matt
-Matt
| MulletSlayer | 07-22-2005 02:10 PM |
Struts are considered a wear item like brake pads and rotors so you are allowed to replace them.
I don't know the story behind the front bar, but it sure helps.
I don't know the story behind the front bar, but it sure helps.
| leecea | 07-22-2005 02:20 PM |
Yes, but you can upgrade some wear items not others. For example, you can use any pads you want but must stick with stock rotors.
IMHO any attempts to make a sensible theory out of autox regs will just give you a headache! They are what they are, with the goal being to provide for fun and help equalize performance between cars in the same category.
IMHO any attempts to make a sensible theory out of autox regs will just give you a headache! They are what they are, with the goal being to provide for fun and help equalize performance between cars in the same category.
| screamindean | 07-22-2005 02:35 PM |
So a lot of endorsements for a 24 mm bar, which sounds reasonable (for no scientific reason) to me. Whose 24 mm bar are you using, and do they squeak/rattle? As mentioned elsewhere, I've had some bad experiences with MR2 bars.
And if anybody knows, the front bar is open in stock classes, but does that include the end links and mounts? I'm guessing a 24 mm bar is going to need different mounts at least.
Aside: I think the front bar was left open in stock class because nobody thought it would help for a low speed racing environment where understeer is generally the problem. I never thought a front bar would help.
Thanks for all the feedback
Dean
And if anybody knows, the front bar is open in stock classes, but does that include the end links and mounts? I'm guessing a 24 mm bar is going to need different mounts at least.
Aside: I think the front bar was left open in stock class because nobody thought it would help for a low speed racing environment where understeer is generally the problem. I never thought a front bar would help.
Thanks for all the feedback
Dean
| MulletSlayer | 07-22-2005 02:47 PM |
I'm guessing you have a sedan. If that's the case then you don't need new front endlinks. The ones from the factory are fine on the sedan. If you want to replace them you can.
If you have a wagon it's a must. Otherwise it feels like the bar is attached to 2 rubber bands.
I have a whiteline adjustable bar and whiteline HD front endlinks (I have a wagon). I don't get any noises. You will want to make sure you use the grease that comes with the bar and the bushings. Also you don't want to tighten the end links to much or they will bind.
If you have a wagon it's a must. Otherwise it feels like the bar is attached to 2 rubber bands.
I have a whiteline adjustable bar and whiteline HD front endlinks (I have a wagon). I don't get any noises. You will want to make sure you use the grease that comes with the bar and the bushings. Also you don't want to tighten the end links to much or they will bind.
| leecea | 07-22-2005 02:49 PM |
I know that changing endlinks and bushings is OK for DS. Not sure about mounts. I doubt you need to change them though.
| ratt_finkel | 07-22-2005 03:10 PM |
The bar and attachment methods are free. I'd go with the biggest bar you can find personally.
| timmyb21 | 07-22-2005 04:23 PM |
[QUOTE=MulletSlayer]Struts are considered a wear item like brake pads and rotors so you are allowed to replace them.
I don't know the story behind the front bar, but it sure helps.[/QUOTE]The front sway bar allowance was from years and years ago. It was allowed because a lot of cars came with no sway bars, and the SCCA didn't want to go to an autocross and see a bunch of cars on their roofs. It was more of a safety thing at first. And you can change the front endlinks in stock, just no the attachment points. They consider it all one piece, again going back to the time of no sway bars and the need for a method to attach it. Hope this helped...
Tim :D
I don't know the story behind the front bar, but it sure helps.[/QUOTE]The front sway bar allowance was from years and years ago. It was allowed because a lot of cars came with no sway bars, and the SCCA didn't want to go to an autocross and see a bunch of cars on their roofs. It was more of a safety thing at first. And you can change the front endlinks in stock, just no the attachment points. They consider it all one piece, again going back to the time of no sway bars and the need for a method to attach it. Hope this helped...
Tim :D
| Scoobie Doogie | 07-23-2005 09:10 AM |
Andy actually bought my Whiteline front sway bar. I thought about trying a 27mm but never got to it. Has anyone tried the 27mm or 32mm bar on a standard WRX yet?
Dave
Dave
| solo2wrx | 07-23-2005 10:52 AM |
I ran a 26 mm bar for a few events in DS before moving to STX. I could not believe the difference that it made over stock. You will not regret getting a larger front sway bar.
| screamindean | 07-23-2005 02:22 PM |
32mm? Is that a typo? Who sells that? I got nothing on a quick google search.
| Scoobie Doogie | 07-23-2005 02:40 PM |
Search in this thread, tis true.
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719115[/url]
Dave
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719115[/url]
Dave
| MattDell | 07-25-2005 12:47 AM |
[QUOTE=timmyb21]The front sway bar allowance was from years and years ago. It was allowed because a lot of cars came with no sway bars, and the SCCA didn't want to go to an autocross and see a bunch of cars on their roofs. It was more of a safety thing at first. And you can change the front endlinks in stock, just no the attachment points. They consider it all one piece, again going back to the time of no sway bars and the need for a method to attach it. Hope this helped...
Tim :D[/QUOTE]
Now I know. :)
Tim :D[/QUOTE]
Now I know. :)
| leecea | 07-25-2005 07:46 AM |
Don't hollow bars have a different effective and physical diameter? For example, a 32mm hollow might be equivalent to a 27mm solid - or something like that!
| Scoobie Doogie | 07-25-2005 07:18 PM |
I thought it was the opposite Andy. I think the hollow bars were more effective due to some funky math that I don't understand. I think you could find info on that in Hotchkis' website.
Dave
(thinking of an 06 WRX for DS)
Dave
(thinking of an 06 WRX for DS)
| waktasz | 07-25-2005 07:22 PM |
I posted a question last week or so about sway bars and everyone seemed to say to get the rear first...now this thread seems to lean the othe way....argggg, what to do?!
| Scoobie Doogie | 07-25-2005 08:51 PM |
What class do you want to run in first? Stock-get the front, STX-get the rear. If you want to be a FAST driver in a WRX learn how to get fast in DS with the stock class rules and THEN go to STX. It will force YOU to DRIVE the car instead of modding it and not learning how to be fast.
Stock class reason for the FSB is to plant the front end of the car and keep it from rolling to the outside edge of the tire and destroying them in 2 events. (Right Mr. Hoppe :devil:)
STX class reason for RSB is to help the car lose grip in the rear before the front to aid in the car rotating.
Dave
Hope that helps.
Stock class reason for the FSB is to plant the front end of the car and keep it from rolling to the outside edge of the tire and destroying them in 2 events. (Right Mr. Hoppe :devil:)
STX class reason for RSB is to help the car lose grip in the rear before the front to aid in the car rotating.
Dave
Hope that helps.
| waktasz | 07-25-2005 08:56 PM |
Thanks for the answer. I'm already on bigger wheels and tires so it's STX for me. I'll eventually be getting both, but looks like rear first it is.
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