| dorao | 04-19-2005 06:43 PM |
05 STi, 17x8.5 & 245/45 17s...
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Hope this is the right forum for this... I just assumed that the auto-xers would be more likely to know the answer.
I just got the Rota 17x8.5 w/ Azenis (245/45/17) on my car in prepration for autox... unfortunately, when I take a hard turn the top of the rear tire rubs against the fender.
Has anybody else run this combination? What are my options? I still have stock suspension... what springs would be stiff enough to not compress that 1" on the hard turns? I will set my rear sway bar to the stiffest setting and see if that helps as well...
Thanks in advance.
Masuo
I just got the Rota 17x8.5 w/ Azenis (245/45/17) on my car in prepration for autox... unfortunately, when I take a hard turn the top of the rear tire rubs against the fender.
Has anybody else run this combination? What are my options? I still have stock suspension... what springs would be stiff enough to not compress that 1" on the hard turns? I will set my rear sway bar to the stiffest setting and see if that helps as well...
Thanks in advance.
Masuo
| BAN SUVS | 04-19-2005 06:52 PM |
Your tires are too tall. The proper size is 245/40.
| dorao | 04-19-2005 06:56 PM |
falken doesn't make them in that size unfortunately. It seems like its more of a wheel width issue than a tire size no?
| BAN SUVS | 04-19-2005 06:57 PM |
No, it's a tire size issue. It's too tall. You shouldn't have bought the 615s yet.
| ratt_finkel | 04-19-2005 07:04 PM |
Eh, my friend has the old Azenis' in that size and only runs aggresive camber and the regular pink springs and doesn't rub.
Here are some pics of it in action.
[url]http://www.erikandersondesigns.com/images/2005/032005-NationalTour/191stu/index.htm[/url]
Here are some pics of it in action.
[url]http://www.erikandersondesigns.com/images/2005/032005-NationalTour/191stu/index.htm[/url]
| trhoppe | 04-19-2005 07:04 PM |
Hmmm, put some swaybars on the car.
I've had 275/40/17 on 17x9 not rub on stock suspension with swaybars.
-Tom
I've had 275/40/17 on 17x9 not rub on stock suspension with swaybars.
-Tom
| dorao | 04-19-2005 07:07 PM |
What are the most 'non invasive' options to 'make it work'?
| dorao | 04-19-2005 07:08 PM |
Ah!! I'll adjust the camber to max neg. and put the rear sway bar to full stiff.
See how that works!
Thanks,
Masuo
See how that works!
Thanks,
Masuo
| ratt_finkel | 04-19-2005 07:08 PM |
Whoops, I forgot to mention the above car does have bigger front and rear bars.
EDIT: I wouldn't consider bars, or springs to be evasive. Unless you are going for super high rates, and bars as big as your arm.
EDIT: I wouldn't consider bars, or springs to be evasive. Unless you are going for super high rates, and bars as big as your arm.
| thechickencow | 04-19-2005 07:16 PM |
Phil's got a fender roller doesn't he?
| dorao | 04-19-2005 11:34 PM |
fender roller won't really work... I could pound in the metal lip though. In any case; I have put the camber bolts into around -1.5deg and the sway bar to full stiff and it seems to not rub anymore. Problem I have now is that it tends to over steer too much.
I think I need stiffer springs. What do people recommend for springs? I've heard prodrive or the sti pinks... Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Masuo
I think I need stiffer springs. What do people recommend for springs? I've heard prodrive or the sti pinks... Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Masuo
| Snakebot | 04-20-2005 02:03 AM |
[QUOTE=ratt_finkel]Eh, my friend has the old Azenis' in that size and only runs aggresive camber and the regular pink springs and doesn't rub.
[/QUOTE]
Actually it rubbed like a mofo with the wheels that's on the car in those pics, 17x8 5Ziegen FN01R-C. But that's caused by the 35mm offset of the wheels not the size of the tires and it only rubs in the rear. Rolling the rear fenders solved the problem. There's no problem with rubbing in the front.
I used the same size tires on the stock '04 wheels, 17x7.5 and didn't have any rubbing problems with the same setup.
[/QUOTE]
Actually it rubbed like a mofo with the wheels that's on the car in those pics, 17x8 5Ziegen FN01R-C. But that's caused by the 35mm offset of the wheels not the size of the tires and it only rubs in the rear. Rolling the rear fenders solved the problem. There's no problem with rubbing in the front.
I used the same size tires on the stock '04 wheels, 17x7.5 and didn't have any rubbing problems with the same setup.
| Snakebot | 04-20-2005 02:12 AM |
[QUOTE=dorao]fender roller won't really work... I could pound in the metal lip though. In any case; I have put the camber bolts into around -1.5deg and the sway bar to full stiff and it seems to not rub anymore. Problem I have now is that it tends to over steer too much.
I think I need stiffer springs. What do people recommend for springs? I've heard prodrive or the sti pinks... Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Masuo[/QUOTE]
Putting the sway bar at full stiff is the reason that you have oversteer. I had the same problem with the Cobb/Hotchkis rear bar and it went away when I moved it to the medium setting.
The problem with more negative camber is you may start rubbing the inside of the tire against the strut.
Since you have a '05 STi. You don't have a fender lip to roll. Subaru cut it off and installed those plastic extension peices on the '05 to clear the 17x8 wheels.
Stiffer springs would be another way to fix the problem but I think you'll need a spring that's stiffer than the Prodrive or JDM STi pinks.
The JDM pinks would be your best bet, I'm pretty sure they have higher spring rates than the Prodrive.
I think I need stiffer springs. What do people recommend for springs? I've heard prodrive or the sti pinks... Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Masuo[/QUOTE]
Putting the sway bar at full stiff is the reason that you have oversteer. I had the same problem with the Cobb/Hotchkis rear bar and it went away when I moved it to the medium setting.
The problem with more negative camber is you may start rubbing the inside of the tire against the strut.
Since you have a '05 STi. You don't have a fender lip to roll. Subaru cut it off and installed those plastic extension peices on the '05 to clear the 17x8 wheels.
Stiffer springs would be another way to fix the problem but I think you'll need a spring that's stiffer than the Prodrive or JDM STi pinks.
The JDM pinks would be your best bet, I'm pretty sure they have higher spring rates than the Prodrive.
| dorao | 04-20-2005 08:41 AM |
[QUOTE=Snakebot]Putting the sway bar at full stiff is the reason that you have oversteer. I had the same problem with the Cobb/Hotchkis rear bar and it went away when I moved it to the medium setting.
The problem with more negative camber is you may start rubbing the inside of the tire against the strut.
Since you have a '05 STi. You don't have a fender lip to roll. Subaru cut it off and installed those plastic extension peices on the '05 to clear the 17x8 wheels.
Stiffer springs would be another way to fix the problem but I think you'll need a spring that's stiffer than the Prodrive or JDM STi pinks.
The JDM pinks would be your best bet, I'm pretty sure they have higher spring rates than the Prodrive.[/QUOTE]
So you do/don't think the pinks will work? What are other stiffer spring options that won't adjust ride height?
Anyway, I'll try to back off the sway bar one setting... see if it'll still not rub. (cross fingers)
Thanks,
Masuo
The problem with more negative camber is you may start rubbing the inside of the tire against the strut.
Since you have a '05 STi. You don't have a fender lip to roll. Subaru cut it off and installed those plastic extension peices on the '05 to clear the 17x8 wheels.
Stiffer springs would be another way to fix the problem but I think you'll need a spring that's stiffer than the Prodrive or JDM STi pinks.
The JDM pinks would be your best bet, I'm pretty sure they have higher spring rates than the Prodrive.[/QUOTE]
So you do/don't think the pinks will work? What are other stiffer spring options that won't adjust ride height?
Anyway, I'll try to back off the sway bar one setting... see if it'll still not rub. (cross fingers)
Thanks,
Masuo
| ratt_finkel | 04-20-2005 12:43 PM |
[QUOTE=Snakebot]Actually it rubbed like a mofo with the wheels that's on the car in those pics, 17x8 5Ziegen FN01R-C. But that's caused by the 35mm offset of the wheels not the size of the tires and it only rubs in the rear. Rolling the rear fenders solved the problem. There's no problem with rubbing in the front.
I used the same size tires on the stock '04 wheels, 17x7.5 and didn't have any rubbing problems with the same setup.[/QUOTE]
What do you know! It's not like it's your car or anything :lol:
I used the same size tires on the stock '04 wheels, 17x7.5 and didn't have any rubbing problems with the same setup.[/QUOTE]
What do you know! It's not like it's your car or anything :lol:
| Calamity Jesus | 04-20-2005 12:50 PM |
[QUOTE=dorao]fender roller won't really work... I could pound in the metal lip though.[/QUOTE]
That's what the fender rolling will do.. flatten the lip. A fender roller won't damage the paint, whereas pounding it flat will certainly crack and chip it.
Swaybars on stock suspension is your best option before you go to adjustable coil-overs.
That's what the fender rolling will do.. flatten the lip. A fender roller won't damage the paint, whereas pounding it flat will certainly crack and chip it.
Swaybars on stock suspension is your best option before you go to adjustable coil-overs.
| afpdl | 04-20-2005 12:53 PM |
There is no lip to roll on the 05 stis.
| ranger5oh | 04-20-2005 01:21 PM |
I had no idea my 05 had no lip!?
| quikSTi | 04-20-2005 01:37 PM |
[QUOTE=dorao]Hope this is the right forum for this... I just assumed that the auto-xers would be more likely to know the answer.
I just got the Rota 17x8.5 w/ Azenis (245/45/17) on my car in prepration for autox... unfortunately, when I take a hard turn the top of the rear tire rubs against the fender.
Has anybody else run this combination? What are my options? I still have stock suspension... what springs would be stiff enough to not compress that 1" on the hard turns? I will set my rear sway bar to the stiffest setting and see if that helps as well...
Thanks in advance.
Masuo[/QUOTE]
FWIW, I'm running close to the same set-up, but my Rotas (Torques) are 17 x 8 (offset is 48 mm, which should be the same as your 17 x 8.5s, and that's the critical number when it comes to clearance issues) and my tires are Kumho Victoracers, same 245/45/17 size as your Azenis. I'm not sure, but I would expect the Victoracer to be a little wider than the Azenis, given it's an R compound tire. My STi is an '04, so the rear fender clearance issue should be worse than your '05. I have not rolled my fenders and am having no rubbing, although it's as close as you can get without rubbing at the top/center point of the fender. I am on JDM STi Pink springs with large sway bars, but I don't think either of those is making a significant difference wrt rubbing, since camber isn't adjustable in the rear and I have checked the tire-to-fender clearance with a rear corner compressed far enough check worst case clearances (rear swaybar disconnected).
No explanation of why your set-up would rub, especially on an '05.
I just got the Rota 17x8.5 w/ Azenis (245/45/17) on my car in prepration for autox... unfortunately, when I take a hard turn the top of the rear tire rubs against the fender.
Has anybody else run this combination? What are my options? I still have stock suspension... what springs would be stiff enough to not compress that 1" on the hard turns? I will set my rear sway bar to the stiffest setting and see if that helps as well...
Thanks in advance.
Masuo[/QUOTE]
FWIW, I'm running close to the same set-up, but my Rotas (Torques) are 17 x 8 (offset is 48 mm, which should be the same as your 17 x 8.5s, and that's the critical number when it comes to clearance issues) and my tires are Kumho Victoracers, same 245/45/17 size as your Azenis. I'm not sure, but I would expect the Victoracer to be a little wider than the Azenis, given it's an R compound tire. My STi is an '04, so the rear fender clearance issue should be worse than your '05. I have not rolled my fenders and am having no rubbing, although it's as close as you can get without rubbing at the top/center point of the fender. I am on JDM STi Pink springs with large sway bars, but I don't think either of those is making a significant difference wrt rubbing, since camber isn't adjustable in the rear and I have checked the tire-to-fender clearance with a rear corner compressed far enough check worst case clearances (rear swaybar disconnected).
No explanation of why your set-up would rub, especially on an '05.
| afpdl | 04-20-2005 01:55 PM |
Offset is measured to the center line not the edge of the wheel. So a wheel that is a half inch wider with the same offset will stick out .25 inches more. So a torque will not fit the same as the 17x8.5 slipstream.
| quikSTi | 04-20-2005 02:10 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]Offset is measured to the center line not the edge of the wheel. So a wheel that is a half inch wider with the same offset will stick out .25 inches more. So a torque will not fit the same as the 17x8.5 slipstream.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but it's not the wheel that's rubbing, it's the tire, and, with the same offset, the tire's position is the same with either wheel, independent of wheel width. Now, I would agree if your argument was that the extra 1/2 in. wheel width would cause the fattest part of the tire to be slightly wider, but that difference actually only amounts to 0.1 inches wider per side, which is a whole lot less than the extra space his '05 STi rear fenders have (vs. my '04) and also probably less than the difference between his Azenis and my Victoracers.
Sure, but it's not the wheel that's rubbing, it's the tire, and, with the same offset, the tire's position is the same with either wheel, independent of wheel width. Now, I would agree if your argument was that the extra 1/2 in. wheel width would cause the fattest part of the tire to be slightly wider, but that difference actually only amounts to 0.1 inches wider per side, which is a whole lot less than the extra space his '05 STi rear fenders have (vs. my '04) and also probably less than the difference between his Azenis and my Victoracers.
| Snakebot | 04-20-2005 03:27 PM |
[QUOTE=dorao]So you do/don't think the pinks will work? What are other stiffer spring options that won't adjust ride height?
[/QUOTE]
Unless you get some custom springs made, I doubt that you're going to find one that has a higher rate and leave the ride height stock.
I'm pretty sure the JDM pinks are the highest rate springs you're going to find. This is why I said that the JDM pinks was probably your best bet. I don't remember exactly how much they lower the car, but I think it's something like 1" or less.
Another thing that you can try is mounting the Azeins on the stock wheels and see if they still rub. The 245/45-17 Azeins works fine on 17x8 wheels. You can use the Rotas as your daily wheels. I think those Rotas are in the 20lb. range, the stock BBS wheels are maybe 18lbs. so you're saving some weight by using the stock wheels for auto-x.
[/QUOTE]
Unless you get some custom springs made, I doubt that you're going to find one that has a higher rate and leave the ride height stock.
I'm pretty sure the JDM pinks are the highest rate springs you're going to find. This is why I said that the JDM pinks was probably your best bet. I don't remember exactly how much they lower the car, but I think it's something like 1" or less.
Another thing that you can try is mounting the Azeins on the stock wheels and see if they still rub. The 245/45-17 Azeins works fine on 17x8 wheels. You can use the Rotas as your daily wheels. I think those Rotas are in the 20lb. range, the stock BBS wheels are maybe 18lbs. so you're saving some weight by using the stock wheels for auto-x.
| dwx | 04-20-2005 03:29 PM |
Anything you do to stiffen the roll of the car is going to affect rubbing. Like Masuo said, when he went with the stiffer swaybar, it fixed the problem.
The Azenis are wide street tires, they are probably very close to the width of the V700s.
The Azenis are wide street tires, they are probably very close to the width of the V700s.
| quikSTi | 04-20-2005 03:42 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]The Azenis are wide street tires, they are probably very close to the width of the V700s.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they're close (just looked up the specs), but the Falken has a slightly narrower section width (9.6" for Falken RT-615 vs. 9.7" for Victoracer, both on 8" wide wheel). Tread width is the same at 9.1".
Yeah, they're close (just looked up the specs), but the Falken has a slightly narrower section width (9.6" for Falken RT-615 vs. 9.7" for Victoracer, both on 8" wide wheel). Tread width is the same at 9.1".
| ti 3vom | 04-20-2005 04:02 PM |
[QUOTE=dorao]fender roller won't really work... I could pound in the metal lip though. In any case; I have put the camber bolts into around -1.5deg and the sway bar to full stiff and it seems to not rub anymore. Problem I have now is that it tends to over steer too much.
I think I need stiffer springs. What do people recommend for springs? I've heard prodrive or the sti pinks... Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Masuo[/QUOTE]
I am using the Prodrives. I could let you drive my 04 to let you see...
I think I need stiffer springs. What do people recommend for springs? I've heard prodrive or the sti pinks... Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Masuo[/QUOTE]
I am using the Prodrives. I could let you drive my 04 to let you see...
| dorao | 04-20-2005 07:38 PM |
[QUOTE=ti 3vom]I am using the Prodrives. I could let you drive my 04 to let you see...[/QUOTE]
Awesome... please pm me when I can hook up with you to check it out!
Thanks,
Masuo
Awesome... please pm me when I can hook up with you to check it out!
Thanks,
Masuo
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