| KC | 11-24-2004 10:09 AM |
2005 Pax/RTP Factors
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2005 PAX/RTP Factors.... the +/- is change from 2004. + means it got harder this year, - means easier.
[CODE]SS 0.837+.001 ASP 0.850+.002 AP 0.865-.003 AM 1.000
AS 0.828 BSP 0.839 BP 0.861-.002 BM 0.942-.003
BS 0.821-.005 CSP 0.838+.001 CP 0.855+.001 CM 0.908-.005
CS 0.810-.001 DSP 0.822+.002 DP 0.844 DM 0.879-.007
DS 0.796+.002 ESP 0.826+.002 EP 0.858-.003 EM 0.886-.008
ES 0.806+.002 FSP 0.811+.002 FP 0.862 FM 0.884-.005
FS 0.805+.002 FSAE 0.948-.012
GS 0.782+.001 STS 0.799+.008
HS 0.777+.001 STS2 0.803-.007 F125 0.939+.001
STX 0.802+.007 FJ1 0.781-.004
STU 0.818-.009 FJ2 0.797+.005
SM 0.842+.004 FJ3 0.823-.002
SM2 0.852+.003 FJ4 0.832-.002[/CODE]
(I'm liking the BS Pax) :lol:
[CODE]SS 0.837+.001 ASP 0.850+.002 AP 0.865-.003 AM 1.000
AS 0.828 BSP 0.839 BP 0.861-.002 BM 0.942-.003
BS 0.821-.005 CSP 0.838+.001 CP 0.855+.001 CM 0.908-.005
CS 0.810-.001 DSP 0.822+.002 DP 0.844 DM 0.879-.007
DS 0.796+.002 ESP 0.826+.002 EP 0.858-.003 EM 0.886-.008
ES 0.806+.002 FSP 0.811+.002 FP 0.862 FM 0.884-.005
FS 0.805+.002 FSAE 0.948-.012
GS 0.782+.001 STS 0.799+.008
HS 0.777+.001 STS2 0.803-.007 F125 0.939+.001
STX 0.802+.007 FJ1 0.781-.004
STU 0.818-.009 FJ2 0.797+.005
SM 0.842+.004 FJ3 0.823-.002
SM2 0.852+.003 FJ4 0.832-.002[/CODE]
(I'm liking the BS Pax) :lol:
| dwx | 11-24-2004 10:11 AM |
2005 PAX/RTP Index
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Rick Ruth posted these to our local autocross list a little while ago:
[url]http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2005.html[/url]
The big changes are:
SM - .842 from .838
STX - .802 from .795
STS - .799 from .791
STU - .818 from .828
ESP - .826 from .824
SM, STX, and STS had the largest increase relative to the other classes.
STU and STS had the largest decrease which was to be expected. With the S2000 leaving BS, it's index got lower as well, from .821 from .826.
[url]http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2005.html[/url]
The big changes are:
SM - .842 from .838
STX - .802 from .795
STS - .799 from .791
STU - .818 from .828
ESP - .826 from .824
SM, STX, and STS had the largest increase relative to the other classes.
STU and STS had the largest decrease which was to be expected. With the S2000 leaving BS, it's index got lower as well, from .821 from .826.
| del105 | 11-24-2004 10:12 AM |
Thats just what I was thinking.
| dwx | 11-24-2004 10:18 AM |
Well they did get rid of all the fast cars in BS. :)
| fliz | 11-24-2004 10:23 AM |
That's crazy...STS had the largest increase and decrease. :p
| KC | 11-24-2004 10:24 AM |
Haha I beat you (DWX) by 2 minutes!!! :lol:
| ratt_finkel | 11-24-2004 10:25 AM |
I think STS and STX need to go up even more.
| trojan9x | 11-24-2004 10:30 AM |
do they really expect STS2 to be a faster class than STX?
| KC | 11-24-2004 10:32 AM |
Well.. it went down by .007 seconds... the 1st few years the numbers fluctuate a bit... but it's surprising to see STS still fluctuate form year to year wihtout any kind of normalization in sight.
| DrBiggly | 11-24-2004 10:47 AM |
I think that STS being closer to STX is not necessarily off base.
Dangit Tom, you shouldn't have been so fast at Nats...I *knew* you were going to screw up the good PAX that STX enjoyed last year! :mad: :p
Dangit Tom, you shouldn't have been so fast at Nats...I *knew* you were going to screw up the good PAX that STX enjoyed last year! :mad: :p
| trojan9x | 11-24-2004 11:00 AM |
well, are any ST drivers really normal? :lol:
Tom
ST something next year
Tom
ST something next year
| Corey | 11-24-2004 11:01 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Dangit Tom, you shouldn't have been so fast at Nats...I *knew* you were going to screw up the good PAX that STX enjoyed last year! :mad: :p[/QUOTE]
At Nats? This year?
Only comparing South course (the only dry course that we ran) his 52.8 would have been back in 8th place in STS...
North just gets thrown out since it was raining for us...
I doubt this year nats results had any influence on the PAX factors for STX.
Corey #89 STS
At Nats? This year?
Only comparing South course (the only dry course that we ran) his 52.8 would have been back in 8th place in STS...
North just gets thrown out since it was raining for us...
I doubt this year nats results had any influence on the PAX factors for STX.
Corey #89 STS
| DrBiggly | 11-24-2004 11:14 AM |
[QUOTE=Corey]At Nats? This year?
Only comparing South course (the only dry course that we ran) his 52.8 would have been back in 8th place in STS...
North just gets thrown out since it was raining for us...
I doubt this year nats results had any influence on the PAX factors for STX.
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
I was kidding (about the Tom part.) Misinterpretation. :)
Only comparing South course (the only dry course that we ran) his 52.8 would have been back in 8th place in STS...
North just gets thrown out since it was raining for us...
I doubt this year nats results had any influence on the PAX factors for STX.
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
I was kidding (about the Tom part.) Misinterpretation. :)
| KC | 11-24-2004 11:16 AM |
[QUOTE=Corey]At Nats? This year?
Only comparing South course (the only dry course that we ran) his 52.8 would have been back in 8th place in STS...
North just gets thrown out since it was raining for us...
I doubt this year nats results had any influence on the PAX factors for STX.
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
They hardly ever do. Most of the times, it is events sampled from around the country.
Only comparing South course (the only dry course that we ran) his 52.8 would have been back in 8th place in STS...
North just gets thrown out since it was raining for us...
I doubt this year nats results had any influence on the PAX factors for STX.
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
They hardly ever do. Most of the times, it is events sampled from around the country.
| DrBiggly | 11-24-2004 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]They hardly ever do. Most of the times, it is events sampled from around the country.[/QUOTE]
That's what I remember reading. However from what I understand the "which events matter" is a bit of a mystery. :)
That's what I remember reading. However from what I understand the "which events matter" is a bit of a mystery. :)
| dwx | 11-24-2004 12:05 PM |
Nationals does play a part in the index, but he uses many national events as well to create them. Jeff Cashmore made this comparison sheet to show the difference on a 50 second run.
[CODE]
RTP 2005 2004 Diff 2005 2004 Diff
SS 0.837 0.836 0.001 41.850 41.800 0.050
AS 0.828 0.828 0 41.400 41.400 0.000
BS 0.821 0.826 -0.005 41.050 41.300 -0.250
CS 0.810 0.811 -0.001 40.500 40.550 -0.050
DS 0.796 0.794 0.002 39.800 39.700 0.100
ES 0.806 0.804 0.002 40.300 40.200 0.100
FS 0.805 0.803 0.002 40.250 40.150 0.100
GS 0.782 0.781 0.001 39.100 39.050 0.050
HS 0.777 0.776 0.001 38.850 38.800 0.050
ASP 0.850 0.848 0.002 42.500 42.400 0.100
BSP 0.839 0.839 0 41.950 41.950 0.000
CSP 0.838 0.837 0.001 41.900 41.850 0.050
DSP 0.822 0.819 0.003 41.100 40.950 0.150
ESP 0.826 0.824 0.002 41.300 41.200 0.100
FSP 0.811 0.813 -0.002 40.550 40.650 -0.100
STS 0.799 0.791 0.008 39.950 39.550 0.400
STS2 0.803 0.819 -0.007 40.150 40.500 -0.350
STX 0.802 0.795 0.007 40.100 39.750 0.350
STU 0.818 0.827 -0.009 40.900 41.350 -0.450
SM 0.842 0.838 0.004 42.100 41.900 0.200
SM2 0.852 0.849 0.003 42.600 42.450 0.150
AP 0.865 0.868 -0.003 43.250 43.400 -0.150
BP 0.861 0.863 -0.002 43.050 43.150 -0.100
CP 0.855 0.854 0.001 42.750 42.700 0.050
DP 0.844 0.844 0 42.200 42.200 0.000
EP 0.858 0.861 -0.003 42.900 43.050 -0.150
FP 0.862 0.862 0 43.100 43.100 0.000
AM 1 1 0 50.000 50.000 0.000
BM 0.942 0.945 -0.003 47.100 47.250 -0.150
CM 0.908 0.913 -0.005 45.400 45.650 -0.250
[/CODE]
[CODE]
RTP 2005 2004 Diff 2005 2004 Diff
SS 0.837 0.836 0.001 41.850 41.800 0.050
AS 0.828 0.828 0 41.400 41.400 0.000
BS 0.821 0.826 -0.005 41.050 41.300 -0.250
CS 0.810 0.811 -0.001 40.500 40.550 -0.050
DS 0.796 0.794 0.002 39.800 39.700 0.100
ES 0.806 0.804 0.002 40.300 40.200 0.100
FS 0.805 0.803 0.002 40.250 40.150 0.100
GS 0.782 0.781 0.001 39.100 39.050 0.050
HS 0.777 0.776 0.001 38.850 38.800 0.050
ASP 0.850 0.848 0.002 42.500 42.400 0.100
BSP 0.839 0.839 0 41.950 41.950 0.000
CSP 0.838 0.837 0.001 41.900 41.850 0.050
DSP 0.822 0.819 0.003 41.100 40.950 0.150
ESP 0.826 0.824 0.002 41.300 41.200 0.100
FSP 0.811 0.813 -0.002 40.550 40.650 -0.100
STS 0.799 0.791 0.008 39.950 39.550 0.400
STS2 0.803 0.819 -0.007 40.150 40.500 -0.350
STX 0.802 0.795 0.007 40.100 39.750 0.350
STU 0.818 0.827 -0.009 40.900 41.350 -0.450
SM 0.842 0.838 0.004 42.100 41.900 0.200
SM2 0.852 0.849 0.003 42.600 42.450 0.150
AP 0.865 0.868 -0.003 43.250 43.400 -0.150
BP 0.861 0.863 -0.002 43.050 43.150 -0.100
CP 0.855 0.854 0.001 42.750 42.700 0.050
DP 0.844 0.844 0 42.200 42.200 0.000
EP 0.858 0.861 -0.003 42.900 43.050 -0.150
FP 0.862 0.862 0 43.100 43.100 0.000
AM 1 1 0 50.000 50.000 0.000
BM 0.942 0.945 -0.003 47.100 47.250 -0.150
CM 0.908 0.913 -0.005 45.400 45.650 -0.250
[/CODE]
| KC | 11-24-2004 12:07 PM |
DWX.. you're sucking at the internet today. :lol: ;)
| dwx | 11-24-2004 12:07 PM |
Haha I fixed it, don't you have a job or something?
| KC | 11-24-2004 12:10 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Haha I fixed it, don't you have a job or something?[/QUOTE]
Yes.... I browse when I have aminations rendering on my main computer. :) Since it takes up all the resources... I make sure I have a lot of rendering to do. :lol:
Besides.. What was the point of your chart.. when I posted the differences originally? :p
Yes.... I browse when I have aminations rendering on my main computer. :) Since it takes up all the resources... I make sure I have a lot of rendering to do. :lol:
Besides.. What was the point of your chart.. when I posted the differences originally? :p
| dwx | 11-24-2004 12:12 PM |
It's just makes it easier for those that suck at math to figure out how much faster they need to go next year. :)
| KC | 11-24-2004 12:30 PM |
But that chart isn't a true representative of the times you need to run to beat someone in PAX.
If HS runs a 50 and you run a 50, HS owns your butt.
You can't take a static 50 seconds for everyone and say everyone is going to run 50 seconds. :) It depends on the class you're in compared to the other class.
Example...
BS 41.050
HS 38.850
What do *I* need to run to beat HS in PAX? Every class it's different. No simple chart will help figure that one out. ;) (I need around a 47.3 to beat HS in pax if THEY ran 50 seconds).
--kC
If HS runs a 50 and you run a 50, HS owns your butt.
You can't take a static 50 seconds for everyone and say everyone is going to run 50 seconds. :) It depends on the class you're in compared to the other class.
Example...
BS 41.050
HS 38.850
What do *I* need to run to beat HS in PAX? Every class it's different. No simple chart will help figure that one out. ;) (I need around a 47.3 to beat HS in pax if THEY ran 50 seconds).
--kC
| Oldalfaguy | 11-24-2004 12:35 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]2005 PAX/RTP Factors.... the +/- is change from 2004. + means it got harder this year, - means easier.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry - newby question: what is PAX, how do you use it, and what does it mean?
Thnaks,
John
I'm sorry - newby question: what is PAX, how do you use it, and what does it mean?
Thnaks,
John
| dwx | 11-24-2004 12:36 PM |
Never said that and the chart doesn't say that. It's just a comparison of your class, nothing else.
[QUOTE=KC]But that chart isn't a true representative of the times you need to run to beat someone in PAX.
If HS runs a 50 and you run a 50, HS owns your butt.
You can't take a static 50 seconds for everyone and say everyone is going to run 50 seconds. :) It depends on the class you're in compared to the other class.
Example...
BS 41.050
HS 38.850
What do *I* need to run to beat HS in PAX? Every class it's different. No simple chart will help figure that one out. ;) (I need around a 47.3 to beat HS in pax if THEY ran 50 seconds).
--kC[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=KC]But that chart isn't a true representative of the times you need to run to beat someone in PAX.
If HS runs a 50 and you run a 50, HS owns your butt.
You can't take a static 50 seconds for everyone and say everyone is going to run 50 seconds. :) It depends on the class you're in compared to the other class.
Example...
BS 41.050
HS 38.850
What do *I* need to run to beat HS in PAX? Every class it's different. No simple chart will help figure that one out. ;) (I need around a 47.3 to beat HS in pax if THEY ran 50 seconds).
--kC[/QUOTE]
| KC | 11-24-2004 12:40 PM |
Sorry, got a little carried away. :) Your chart is just showing the difference from 2004 to 2005 as far as what time you're going to end up with. Got it. (I tried editing my post by it was being wikked slow)
PAX is a number applied to every class, if your region decides to use them, to help determine competiton between classes for placing.
Example: you'll notice that AM as a Pax of 1.00. Which means if they run a 50 second run, they get a PAX time of 50.
For someone in STS to beat that 50 Second PAX time, they need to run at least a 62.5 on the course, which would give them a 49.98 ish PAX time. :) You take your RAW time and multiply it with the factor to get your factored PAX time)
It's just a method to help determine a time for all classes against each other. Some regions use them, some don't. :)
--kC
PAX is a number applied to every class, if your region decides to use them, to help determine competiton between classes for placing.
Example: you'll notice that AM as a Pax of 1.00. Which means if they run a 50 second run, they get a PAX time of 50.
For someone in STS to beat that 50 Second PAX time, they need to run at least a 62.5 on the course, which would give them a 49.98 ish PAX time. :) You take your RAW time and multiply it with the factor to get your factored PAX time)
It's just a method to help determine a time for all classes against each other. Some regions use them, some don't. :)
--kC
| Draken | 11-24-2004 12:51 PM |
calm down KC. Lay off the geritol.
c'
c'
| DrBiggly | 11-24-2004 01:08 PM |
[QUOTE=Corey]Only comparing South course (the only dry course that we ran) his 52.8 would have been back in 8th place in STS...
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
Wait a minute, didn't STS run Thur/Fri and STX on Tues/Wed? I wouldn't discount that there is a significant amount of grip change with the extra rubber laid down after 2 days on the course. :)
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
Wait a minute, didn't STS run Thur/Fri and STX on Tues/Wed? I wouldn't discount that there is a significant amount of grip change with the extra rubber laid down after 2 days on the course. :)
| Oldalfaguy | 11-24-2004 01:38 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Sorry, got a little carried away. :) Your chart is just showing the difference from 2004 to 2005 as far as what time you're going to end up with. Got it. (I tried editing my post by it was being wikked slow)
PAX is a number applied to every class, if your region decides to use them, to help determine competiton between classes for placing.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Thanks alot KC
John
PAX is a number applied to every class, if your region decides to use them, to help determine competiton between classes for placing.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Thanks alot KC
John
| TheWRX | 11-24-2004 01:38 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Wait a minute, didn't STS run Thur/Fri and STX on Tues/Wed?[/QUOTE]
Yes, STX ran the South course on Tuesday, first heat, first class.
You can't read too much into the index numbers, it's obviously not exact science. In general I think that the numbers work out quite well for what they're trying to do. They let you compare your times to people in other classes on a local level. You'll always have dependencies on course design, surface, conditions, etc, but overall the best drivers tend to end up in the top index places.
Yes, STX ran the South course on Tuesday, first heat, first class.
You can't read too much into the index numbers, it's obviously not exact science. In general I think that the numbers work out quite well for what they're trying to do. They let you compare your times to people in other classes on a local level. You'll always have dependencies on course design, surface, conditions, etc, but overall the best drivers tend to end up in the top index places.
| DougM | 11-24-2004 03:56 PM |
here'a a complete summary (compiled by a local nwr-scca member)
Class 2005 2004 Difference
SS 0.837 0.836 0.1%
AS 0.828 0.828 0.0%
BS 0.821 0.826 -0.5%
CS 0.810 0.811 -0.1%
DS 0.796 0.794 0.2%
ES 0.806 0.804 0.2%
FS 0.805 0.803 0.2%
GS 0.782 0.781 0.1%
HS 0.777 0.776 0.1%
ASP 0.850 0.848 0.2%
BSP 0.839 0.839 0.0%
CSP 0.838 0.837 0.1%
DSP 0.822 0.819 0.3%
ESP 0.826 0.824 0.2%
FSP 0.811 0.813 -0.2%
STS 0.799 0.791 0.8%
STS2 0.803 0.810 -0.7%
STX 0.802 0.795 0.7%
STU 0.818 0.827 -0.9%
SM 0.842 0.838 0.4%
SM2 0.852 0.849 0.3%
AP 0.865 0.868 -0.3%
BP 0.861 0.863 -0.2%
CP 0.855 0.854 0.1%
DP 0.844 0.844 0.0%
EP 0.858 0.861 -0.3%
FP 0.862 0.862 0.0%
AM 1.000 1.000 0.0%
BM 0.942 0.945 -0.3%
CM 0.908 0.913 -0.5%
DM 0.879 0.886 -0.7%
EM 0.886 0.894 -0.8%
FM 0.884 0.889 -0.5%
FSAE 0.948 0.960 -1.2%
F125 0.939 0.938 0.1%
FJ1 0.781 0.785 -0.4%
FJ2 0.797 0.792 0.5%
FJ3 0.823 0.825 -0.2%
FJ4 0.832 0.834 -0.2%
Class 2005 2004 Difference
SS 0.837 0.836 0.1%
AS 0.828 0.828 0.0%
BS 0.821 0.826 -0.5%
CS 0.810 0.811 -0.1%
DS 0.796 0.794 0.2%
ES 0.806 0.804 0.2%
FS 0.805 0.803 0.2%
GS 0.782 0.781 0.1%
HS 0.777 0.776 0.1%
ASP 0.850 0.848 0.2%
BSP 0.839 0.839 0.0%
CSP 0.838 0.837 0.1%
DSP 0.822 0.819 0.3%
ESP 0.826 0.824 0.2%
FSP 0.811 0.813 -0.2%
STS 0.799 0.791 0.8%
STS2 0.803 0.810 -0.7%
STX 0.802 0.795 0.7%
STU 0.818 0.827 -0.9%
SM 0.842 0.838 0.4%
SM2 0.852 0.849 0.3%
AP 0.865 0.868 -0.3%
BP 0.861 0.863 -0.2%
CP 0.855 0.854 0.1%
DP 0.844 0.844 0.0%
EP 0.858 0.861 -0.3%
FP 0.862 0.862 0.0%
AM 1.000 1.000 0.0%
BM 0.942 0.945 -0.3%
CM 0.908 0.913 -0.5%
DM 0.879 0.886 -0.7%
EM 0.886 0.894 -0.8%
FM 0.884 0.889 -0.5%
FSAE 0.948 0.960 -1.2%
F125 0.939 0.938 0.1%
FJ1 0.781 0.785 -0.4%
FJ2 0.797 0.792 0.5%
FJ3 0.823 0.825 -0.2%
FJ4 0.832 0.834 -0.2%
| DrBiggly | 11-24-2004 07:50 PM |
[QUOTE=TheWRX]...You'll always have dependencies on course design, surface, conditions, etc, but overall the best drivers tend to end up in the top index places.[/QUOTE]
Quite.
Quite.
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