| erich_sc | 04-18-2002 03:59 PM |
Aaaargh!!! Not again!!!
If I turn on Speed Channel one more time and see NASCAR I'm gonna ****!!!!!!!!! That's all they ever air!!!!! It's not bad that they air new races, or even recent replays, but who gives a **** about old ones!!! I'd rather watch go-cart races than any more NASCAR!!:mad:
I've e-mailed Speed Channel many times and (once again:rolleyes:) encourage others to do the same. It's dispicable! I was never [i]too[/i] anti-NASCAR until now. It's just been played so much, and all the races are exactly the same no matter where the race is! If I was in charge...:rolleyes:
Sorry... I'm sure many of you are getting sick of reading about people bitching about it! I just had to vent someplace...
-Erich
I've e-mailed Speed Channel many times and (once again:rolleyes:) encourage others to do the same. It's dispicable! I was never [i]too[/i] anti-NASCAR until now. It's just been played so much, and all the races are exactly the same no matter where the race is! If I was in charge...:rolleyes:
Sorry... I'm sure many of you are getting sick of reading about people bitching about it! I just had to vent someplace...
-Erich
| RideHardIntoMyUndy's | 04-18-2002 04:38 PM |
if its not wrc then its not for me.:D
| Jon Bogert | 04-18-2002 04:46 PM |
If you were in charge, the network wouldn't be making as much money. :lol:
I agree with you 100%. I never cared much for "How to Polish Your Boat TV" but I actively [i]despise[/i] NASCAR. It's not about the cars either--it's the oppressive, white trash in-your-face attitude that makes me ill. You get some good people racing those stupid cars with some good technical commentating, then I'd probably enjoy it.
I agree with you 100%. I never cared much for "How to Polish Your Boat TV" but I actively [i]despise[/i] NASCAR. It's not about the cars either--it's the oppressive, white trash in-your-face attitude that makes me ill. You get some good people racing those stupid cars with some good technical commentating, then I'd probably enjoy it.
| erich_sc | 04-18-2002 04:50 PM |
I don't mind the odd race... some are kind of funny... But back to back shows all day long? There needs to be a "shoot myself in the face" smiley. I love F-1, WRC, MotoGP, Tour Car... Everything but NASCAR! But that's all they show all day!
-Erich
-Erich
| chmoorewrx | 04-18-2002 08:54 PM |
Now ya gotta give them some credit for showing so much WRC. I've probably seen Catalunya 20 times. Never get sick of it.....
| jlyttle | 04-18-2002 09:10 PM |
nascar IS better than boat shows, i just get tired of those minor-leage 1/4-1/3 mile oval races.
| Red-Impreza | 04-18-2002 09:51 PM |
Ah... my brothers. Where were you when Zimmer was ripping me a new one in [URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165820]this thread[/URL]. ;)
I agree with the first post. Can the NASCAR classics. There has to be a better way to fill airtime then that.
{flame-suit on} Fire away!
:devil:
PS: There's rally on tonight. (OK, so they're doing some things right... or, almost right.)
I agree with the first post. Can the NASCAR classics. There has to be a better way to fill airtime then that.
{flame-suit on} Fire away!
:devil:
PS: There's rally on tonight. (OK, so they're doing some things right... or, almost right.)
| WRX500 | 04-19-2002 01:11 AM |
I'm actually watching Speed Channel less. I don't even bother checking to see what's one anymore because most of the time its NASCAR Tech, Garage, Today, blah, blah, blah. When I first got Speedvision it was the first channel I turned to when I turned the TV on. I was actually excited and interested to see what was on. But now I know its probably a NASCAR program that is repeating the same crap that was said yesterday and I don't bother checking first thing. HOW MANY SHOWS ABOUT LAST SUNDAY'S NASCAR RACE CAN SPEEDTV AIR IN ONE WEEK!:mad: Let's recap and dwell on yesterday's NASCAR recap! Ponderous! Just ponderous!:rolleyes: I understand that NASCAR coverage pays the bills, but its causing this potential viewer to tune away.
OK...I gotta calm down...this topic has got me pissed off!:mad: :monkey:
OK...I gotta calm down...this topic has got me pissed off!:mad: :monkey:
| Bonzo | 04-19-2002 09:25 AM |
:rolleyes:
Is their a channel on TV that has everything YOU want to watch all the time? Ok maybe the weather channel:p Other than that, don't think so.
As for watching Nascar, if you don't like it turn the channel. As for WRC, I have seen more WRC on speedtv than I have since they began showing rallies. Their are almost too many re-airs.
Goto their site, check the sced. and see what good stuff is on and when. Tune in then. Their scheduling is on somewhat of a pattern. WRC on late/primtime evenings with almost live coverage, bikes on Sundays and sunday nights and re-airs on 2-wheel tuesdays. F1 on eves and early Sunday morning with sunday evening re-air.
If it was'nt for nascar paying the bills we would'nt be getting the chance to see want we so desire!! Look at the big picture and quit yer belly-aching.:rolleyes:
Is their a channel on TV that has everything YOU want to watch all the time? Ok maybe the weather channel:p Other than that, don't think so.
As for watching Nascar, if you don't like it turn the channel. As for WRC, I have seen more WRC on speedtv than I have since they began showing rallies. Their are almost too many re-airs.
Goto their site, check the sced. and see what good stuff is on and when. Tune in then. Their scheduling is on somewhat of a pattern. WRC on late/primtime evenings with almost live coverage, bikes on Sundays and sunday nights and re-airs on 2-wheel tuesdays. F1 on eves and early Sunday morning with sunday evening re-air.
If it was'nt for nascar paying the bills we would'nt be getting the chance to see want we so desire!! Look at the big picture and quit yer belly-aching.:rolleyes:
| Coach | 04-19-2002 10:02 AM |
How about the Hooters Pro Cup races. I feel like sending my foot right through the screen at times. I honestly think they have overestimated the value of all the NASCAR programing. I live in NASCAR Central(Daytona) and everyone here loves the stuff but I know mure about the cars than thay do and I hate circle jerks. They consider themselves fans because they nave a 3-RIP sticker on their pickup and they have a Rusty Wallace t-shirt. I would love to kidnap some of them and take them to the Petit Lemans at Road Atlanta and see their reaction. I swear, if they...:mad:
Sorry for freaking out. I guess it's a touchy subject.:lol:
Sorry for freaking out. I guess it's a touchy subject.:lol:
| TBreu007 | 04-19-2002 10:06 AM |
I hate it when I see "Auto Racing" coming on next on Speed Channel...I wait, chomping at the bit with anticipation...will it be a F1 replay...a rally...World Challenge...aw CRAP! NASCAR AGAIN!
| gtguy | 04-19-2002 10:39 AM |
Whoa! I turned on Speed Channel last night after test-driving my car with the STi suspension that I had just installed, and got...
Rally XS from Cyprus, followed by SCCA Pro Rally coverage. I was sorry that I couldn't stay awake (that suspension stuff is hard work). The other time this week that I just tuned in to Speed Channel, they were showing the Superbikes from S. Africa. Man, I love the way those Ducatis sound.
You can no longer just tune in to Speed Channel and get something potentially interesting, but you couldn't do that when it was Speedvision. Instead of NASCAR, you had boats and planes and frankly, I'd rather watch NASCAR.
But I also admit to not understanding the hostility toward a) an entire racing series and b) a channel that does everything that it can to make everyone happy. They re-run the WRC stuff all the time, they still have Motorsport Mundial (those Trials riders are insane), and a host of other non-NASCAR programming, more than when it was Speedvision.
Bonzo has nailed it perfectly. Use the TV book or channel grid, and plan your viewing. But these anti-NASCAR/Speed Channel threads are just silly, IMHO. Why must anyone try to feel superior to anyone else? NASCAR is huge, while F1 and WRC are but a speck on a fly's butt, comparatively. I love them both, but this is simple reality. Ask anyone except the most rabid Michael Schumacher fan if they would rather watch the close NASCAR racing, or Schumacher's driving serenely off into the distance, and they would pick NASCAR. Hell, I LOVE F1 and Schumacher, and Imola was boring. The only suspense was if any cars would break.
Kevin
Rally XS from Cyprus, followed by SCCA Pro Rally coverage. I was sorry that I couldn't stay awake (that suspension stuff is hard work). The other time this week that I just tuned in to Speed Channel, they were showing the Superbikes from S. Africa. Man, I love the way those Ducatis sound.
You can no longer just tune in to Speed Channel and get something potentially interesting, but you couldn't do that when it was Speedvision. Instead of NASCAR, you had boats and planes and frankly, I'd rather watch NASCAR.
But I also admit to not understanding the hostility toward a) an entire racing series and b) a channel that does everything that it can to make everyone happy. They re-run the WRC stuff all the time, they still have Motorsport Mundial (those Trials riders are insane), and a host of other non-NASCAR programming, more than when it was Speedvision.
Bonzo has nailed it perfectly. Use the TV book or channel grid, and plan your viewing. But these anti-NASCAR/Speed Channel threads are just silly, IMHO. Why must anyone try to feel superior to anyone else? NASCAR is huge, while F1 and WRC are but a speck on a fly's butt, comparatively. I love them both, but this is simple reality. Ask anyone except the most rabid Michael Schumacher fan if they would rather watch the close NASCAR racing, or Schumacher's driving serenely off into the distance, and they would pick NASCAR. Hell, I LOVE F1 and Schumacher, and Imola was boring. The only suspense was if any cars would break.
Kevin
| EricSC | 04-19-2002 10:49 AM |
I have one word for you guy's:
Tivo
You'll never watch TV the same again. Last night I went through my routine of picking which show I want to watch for the next two weeks. Rally? Yes please. F1? Also. Trans-Am? Of course. I haven't watched a commercial or live TV in two months.
-Eric
Tivo
You'll never watch TV the same again. Last night I went through my routine of picking which show I want to watch for the next two weeks. Rally? Yes please. F1? Also. Trans-Am? Of course. I haven't watched a commercial or live TV in two months.
-Eric
| skuttledude | 04-19-2002 11:06 AM |
Thanks again Kevin!
I couldn't agree with GtGuy (Kevin) any better! Thanks for shedding light on this sore subject once again.
People...and fellow I-club members....Speedchannel is giving us exactly what we want...WRC same-day coverage, re-runs of WRC, live F1 races with practice too, and Motor Sport Mundial which always has great coverage various forms of non-US type of motorsports.
If you like NASCAR, fine Speedchannel is your ticket; if not then go watch something else...I'm sure The Weather Channel has a new loop every 30 minutes! If you are a WRC, F1, ALMS etc...fan then Speedchannel is also the place to go.
Just don't forget that some of us petitioned like nuts to get Speedvision (now Speedchannel) to air WRC events (same day etc..) and keep F1 going. Please don't ruin it.
Thankfully,
Davis
P.S. Oh Yes! TiVo is by far the best gizmo made to record all F1, WRC shows..you decide when to watch TV..not the other way around
People...and fellow I-club members....Speedchannel is giving us exactly what we want...WRC same-day coverage, re-runs of WRC, live F1 races with practice too, and Motor Sport Mundial which always has great coverage various forms of non-US type of motorsports.
If you like NASCAR, fine Speedchannel is your ticket; if not then go watch something else...I'm sure The Weather Channel has a new loop every 30 minutes! If you are a WRC, F1, ALMS etc...fan then Speedchannel is also the place to go.
Just don't forget that some of us petitioned like nuts to get Speedvision (now Speedchannel) to air WRC events (same day etc..) and keep F1 going. Please don't ruin it.
Thankfully,
Davis
P.S. Oh Yes! TiVo is by far the best gizmo made to record all F1, WRC shows..you decide when to watch TV..not the other way around
| Thug | 04-19-2002 11:39 AM |
Some people are just never pleased. :rolleyes:
Personally I think the new Speed Channel is great. I remember years back having to wait 4 months to see a crappy 30 minute review of a WRC race. Now we get an hour for [b]each day[/b] on the [b]same day[/b]! How can you complain about that?
Personally I think the new Speed Channel is great. I remember years back having to wait 4 months to see a crappy 30 minute review of a WRC race. Now we get an hour for [b]each day[/b] on the [b]same day[/b]! How can you complain about that?
| Jewbaru | 04-19-2002 12:55 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by y2k4door [/i]
[B]Some people are just never pleased. :rolleyes:
Personally I think the new Speed Channel is great. I remember years back having to wait 4 months to see a crappy 30 minute review of a WRC race. Now we get an hour for [b]each day[/b] on the [b]same day[/b]! How can you complain about that? [/B][/QUOTE]
agreed. If they show NASCAR, you know what I do? I [b]change the channel.[/b]
[B]Some people are just never pleased. :rolleyes:
Personally I think the new Speed Channel is great. I remember years back having to wait 4 months to see a crappy 30 minute review of a WRC race. Now we get an hour for [b]each day[/b] on the [b]same day[/b]! How can you complain about that? [/B][/QUOTE]
agreed. If they show NASCAR, you know what I do? I [b]change the channel.[/b]
| gtguy | 04-19-2002 01:04 PM |
I'm a Replay TV fan myself. Less glitz, more information that loads faster. Both are wonderful, except at the longest recording speed, you get digital pixelation during fast action. No problem if all you want to do is watch, but if you want to dub, use the highest quality speed.
Also, I was having Macintosh problems at work when I was testing TiVO, and that little guy they have dancing around reminded too much of the little animated Mac icon. I kept wanting to shoot my television set.
:lol:
Kevin
Also, I was having Macintosh problems at work when I was testing TiVO, and that little guy they have dancing around reminded too much of the little animated Mac icon. I kept wanting to shoot my television set.
:lol:
Kevin
| Red-Impreza | 04-19-2002 01:20 PM |
[QUOTE]But I also admit to not understanding the hostility toward a) an entire racing series and b) a channel that does everything that it can [/QUOTE]
Personally, I'm not ACTIVELY hostile toward NASCAR. I'm just getting sick of being inundated with it. (Yeah, yeah... turn the the channel. I'm sure _that's_ what Speed Channel wants you to do.) Isn't there enough NASCAR on ESPN and TNT already?
[QUOTE]NASCAR is huge, while F1 and WRC are but a speck on a fly's butt, comparatively. [/QUOTE]
This is total crap! F1 and WRC are world wide. NASCAR is huge in the US. Oh, but since the US [B]is[/B] the world, everything else is a speck on a fly's butt. That's exactly the sort of egocentric BS that pisses off the rest of the world. (Who _exactly_ is it that's feeling superior?)
And, they're _not_ doing everything they can. They have overestimated the balance between NASCAR and the other forms of racing. I realize it's a holy war and the NASCAR fans have won it, but they really need to scale it back bit and make an active effort to televise the less well known, more grassroots forms of racing. That's what I used to love about Speedvision.
I realize they're doing some good things. We're just voicing frustration with the one BIG thing they're blowing. They're selling out their original audience for NASCAR fans in order to turn a profit. As I've said before, I understand it. I just don't like it.
-Bud
PS: TiVo - I've gotta' get me one of those.
Personally, I'm not ACTIVELY hostile toward NASCAR. I'm just getting sick of being inundated with it. (Yeah, yeah... turn the the channel. I'm sure _that's_ what Speed Channel wants you to do.) Isn't there enough NASCAR on ESPN and TNT already?
[QUOTE]NASCAR is huge, while F1 and WRC are but a speck on a fly's butt, comparatively. [/QUOTE]
This is total crap! F1 and WRC are world wide. NASCAR is huge in the US. Oh, but since the US [B]is[/B] the world, everything else is a speck on a fly's butt. That's exactly the sort of egocentric BS that pisses off the rest of the world. (Who _exactly_ is it that's feeling superior?)
And, they're _not_ doing everything they can. They have overestimated the balance between NASCAR and the other forms of racing. I realize it's a holy war and the NASCAR fans have won it, but they really need to scale it back bit and make an active effort to televise the less well known, more grassroots forms of racing. That's what I used to love about Speedvision.
I realize they're doing some good things. We're just voicing frustration with the one BIG thing they're blowing. They're selling out their original audience for NASCAR fans in order to turn a profit. As I've said before, I understand it. I just don't like it.
-Bud
PS: TiVo - I've gotta' get me one of those.
| gtguy | 04-19-2002 04:00 PM |
In the U.S. ratings world, which is all that matters to Speed Channel because that is their universe, F1 and WRC are, compared to NASCAR, a speck on a fly's butt. Sorry, but that's just reality.
In fact, Speed Channel is doing an excellent job of balancing the various needs. I'm thrilled with the channel, personally, but I only watch what I want to watch. Nor am I in the "crap" dealership business, just the perspective/reality business from a side of the fence that people rarely examine things from.
When the USGP was televised on ABC, a real network, the race drew an infinitesimal number of viewers. Now, quibble all you like about how Nielsen measures, and there are some legitimate concerns to be raised, the viewership numbers told a sad tale: Essentially, the numbers were so low that they were below the level where people accidentally tune in to a program, and are too lazy to switch.
If Speed Channel were selling out, they would be all NASCAR, all the time. They aren't. If you want to argue that they aren't showing what you want when you want to tune in to the channel, that is an unassailable position. But to state that Speed Channel is not meeting the needs of a certain type of motorsports viewer, when in fact the channel is now showing MORE of what that particular viewer likes, is inaccurate.
Nor is NASCAR vs. everything a "holy war." It's all about the Benjamins, and right now, NASCAR is king. If Speed Channel thought that tiddleywinks would draw huge viewership numbers, they'd show that. Cable stations have to get paid, or they don't show anything. Period. Personally, I'm happy with having NASCAR foot the bills for what I perceive to be the good stuff. Bully on them, and keep up the good work.
And no, Speed Channel doesn't want you to change the channel, when you tune in and see NASCAR. They are hoping, as they are hoping with all of the extra, sometimes basic information that Ralph Shaheen delivers during the WRC programs, that people might start learning about the sport, and become a fan. That's one more viewer, and one more potential Nielsen household, should a box or diary come their way.
I have seen Speedvision GT, I've seen Formula Ford and other "grassroots" motorsports on Speed Channel. I don't watch them personally, but I have seen them being aired on the channel.
Finally, here's the thing that I wish we could do on this board--disagree without resorting to personal attacks (see my above statement about my being in the crap business). Debate is healthy, and someone might learn something. But flames help nobody, IMHO. Then again, my friends call me Pollyanna.
Kevin
In fact, Speed Channel is doing an excellent job of balancing the various needs. I'm thrilled with the channel, personally, but I only watch what I want to watch. Nor am I in the "crap" dealership business, just the perspective/reality business from a side of the fence that people rarely examine things from.
When the USGP was televised on ABC, a real network, the race drew an infinitesimal number of viewers. Now, quibble all you like about how Nielsen measures, and there are some legitimate concerns to be raised, the viewership numbers told a sad tale: Essentially, the numbers were so low that they were below the level where people accidentally tune in to a program, and are too lazy to switch.
If Speed Channel were selling out, they would be all NASCAR, all the time. They aren't. If you want to argue that they aren't showing what you want when you want to tune in to the channel, that is an unassailable position. But to state that Speed Channel is not meeting the needs of a certain type of motorsports viewer, when in fact the channel is now showing MORE of what that particular viewer likes, is inaccurate.
Nor is NASCAR vs. everything a "holy war." It's all about the Benjamins, and right now, NASCAR is king. If Speed Channel thought that tiddleywinks would draw huge viewership numbers, they'd show that. Cable stations have to get paid, or they don't show anything. Period. Personally, I'm happy with having NASCAR foot the bills for what I perceive to be the good stuff. Bully on them, and keep up the good work.
And no, Speed Channel doesn't want you to change the channel, when you tune in and see NASCAR. They are hoping, as they are hoping with all of the extra, sometimes basic information that Ralph Shaheen delivers during the WRC programs, that people might start learning about the sport, and become a fan. That's one more viewer, and one more potential Nielsen household, should a box or diary come their way.
I have seen Speedvision GT, I've seen Formula Ford and other "grassroots" motorsports on Speed Channel. I don't watch them personally, but I have seen them being aired on the channel.
Finally, here's the thing that I wish we could do on this board--disagree without resorting to personal attacks (see my above statement about my being in the crap business). Debate is healthy, and someone might learn something. But flames help nobody, IMHO. Then again, my friends call me Pollyanna.
Kevin
| Bonzo | 04-19-2002 05:52 PM |
gtguy, the man with the golden pen err keyboard:) Wow, I wish someday I could put to paper something so lucid and easy to digest and you are able to do so well. Yes, I know that is your profession too.
Very nice.
Very nice.
| Robin2 | 04-19-2002 06:53 PM |
Just imagine....
The old nascar fan saying to his friends:
"You should have seen it..... I go on speed channel and all there is rallly this, subaru this, every freaking day!"
"These guys think they're so good on back roads,I would love to tell them to try pulling your bass boat and driking at the same time and see if they can keep on the road to the cottage!"
Robin
The old nascar fan saying to his friends:
"You should have seen it..... I go on speed channel and all there is rallly this, subaru this, every freaking day!"
"These guys think they're so good on back roads,I would love to tell them to try pulling your bass boat and driking at the same time and see if they can keep on the road to the cottage!"
Robin
| ForzaF1 | 04-19-2002 07:06 PM |
NASCAR pisses me off because, as a motorsports fan, it gets rammed down my throat. I have 0 interest in NASCAR, I consider it the motor-racing equivalent of the WWF, and would ignore it completely if possible, but its difficult to avoid. I don't watch Speedwhatever during the week (except when WRC is on) for that reason.
There's an interesting article in Car & Driver about Motorsports on TV in the USA. The Speedwhatever situation boild down to this: Fox way overpaid for the rights to air NASCAR, they are loosing their shirts on the deal and want to get as much money as they can out of the franchise.
To accomplish this they cahrge for everything.. those in-car cameras? someone pays $10s of thousands per race for them to be in their car, sponsors pay to have their names mentioned on the air etc. Fox bought Speed Vision with the aim of turning into "The NASCAR Channel" to get money... they get 10 or 20 cents per person who gets the channel.
The article also mentioned the on-line petition to "save" non-NASCAR programming. 65,000 people (including me) signed it, and it apparently made a difference. Without it we may well have had NOTHING but NASCAR 3pm-midnight every week day.
Its easy to say "turn the channel" but NASCAR is a juggernaught in the US. And it is "all about the benjamins" so those of us that follow niche sports in the US are right to be wary of NASCAR rolling over F1, WRC etc. It is only because enough of us got worked up enough over it that we are getting the type of WRC coverage we now enjoy, without the petition they might have stayed with the one hour recap three weeks after the event that we got last year, to make room for more NASCAR "tech" etc.
Oh yes, and I would rather watch even the most boring F1 race rather than a NASCAR "show" no matter how many meaningless passes the NASCAR racin' has.
There's an interesting article in Car & Driver about Motorsports on TV in the USA. The Speedwhatever situation boild down to this: Fox way overpaid for the rights to air NASCAR, they are loosing their shirts on the deal and want to get as much money as they can out of the franchise.
To accomplish this they cahrge for everything.. those in-car cameras? someone pays $10s of thousands per race for them to be in their car, sponsors pay to have their names mentioned on the air etc. Fox bought Speed Vision with the aim of turning into "The NASCAR Channel" to get money... they get 10 or 20 cents per person who gets the channel.
The article also mentioned the on-line petition to "save" non-NASCAR programming. 65,000 people (including me) signed it, and it apparently made a difference. Without it we may well have had NOTHING but NASCAR 3pm-midnight every week day.
Its easy to say "turn the channel" but NASCAR is a juggernaught in the US. And it is "all about the benjamins" so those of us that follow niche sports in the US are right to be wary of NASCAR rolling over F1, WRC etc. It is only because enough of us got worked up enough over it that we are getting the type of WRC coverage we now enjoy, without the petition they might have stayed with the one hour recap three weeks after the event that we got last year, to make room for more NASCAR "tech" etc.
Oh yes, and I would rather watch even the most boring F1 race rather than a NASCAR "show" no matter how many meaningless passes the NASCAR racin' has.
| Red-Impreza | 04-19-2002 09:09 PM |
[QUOTE]Finally, here's the thing that I wish we could do on this board--disagree without resorting to personal attacks [/QUOTE]
I agree whole heartedly. My attack was on the US-centric attitude I thought you were asserting, not you personally. That's just how I interpreted your statements. Your clarification, pointing out the business aspect (which is US specific), is perfectly valid. I think there's a good argument to be made that it's a result of the attitude I'm talking about, but that was not really your point so I appologize. You may be a bit sensitive, but it's a hot topic and I've been shot at before. So, I was cocked and loaded before I read your post. I may have been a bit quick to fire.
I agree that it makes good business sense. Against that I have little argument. I just remember hearing Speedvision announcers go on and on about how Speedvision was the "enthusiasts channel". Well now it's the home of NASCAR. It's been dumbed down and homogenized for mass consumption and it no longer appeals to my palate.
I remember the panic and flame wars that flew around this board when we first heard the rumors. I thought, "no... it won't be like that. You're overreacting." I was a voice of patience. Well, I was wrong. It has turned out exactly the way people feared.
I hope you're right. I hope NASCAR pays the bills. I hope it pays them well enough that Speed Channel can afford to televise some of the less well known series, like USTCC. I hope we get to see more SCCA races. I'd be happy if they scheduled them at 3:00 AM. I have a VCR (and I really do need to get a TiVo or similar gadget). However, I've lost my faith. I no longer believe that Speed Channel is the enthusiasts channel. I fear they've fired all the enthusiasts and all that remain are the businessmen and stuffed shirts.
I hope I'm wrong.
-Bud
I agree whole heartedly. My attack was on the US-centric attitude I thought you were asserting, not you personally. That's just how I interpreted your statements. Your clarification, pointing out the business aspect (which is US specific), is perfectly valid. I think there's a good argument to be made that it's a result of the attitude I'm talking about, but that was not really your point so I appologize. You may be a bit sensitive, but it's a hot topic and I've been shot at before. So, I was cocked and loaded before I read your post. I may have been a bit quick to fire.
I agree that it makes good business sense. Against that I have little argument. I just remember hearing Speedvision announcers go on and on about how Speedvision was the "enthusiasts channel". Well now it's the home of NASCAR. It's been dumbed down and homogenized for mass consumption and it no longer appeals to my palate.
I remember the panic and flame wars that flew around this board when we first heard the rumors. I thought, "no... it won't be like that. You're overreacting." I was a voice of patience. Well, I was wrong. It has turned out exactly the way people feared.
I hope you're right. I hope NASCAR pays the bills. I hope it pays them well enough that Speed Channel can afford to televise some of the less well known series, like USTCC. I hope we get to see more SCCA races. I'd be happy if they scheduled them at 3:00 AM. I have a VCR (and I really do need to get a TiVo or similar gadget). However, I've lost my faith. I no longer believe that Speed Channel is the enthusiasts channel. I fear they've fired all the enthusiasts and all that remain are the businessmen and stuffed shirts.
I hope I'm wrong.
-Bud
| gtguy | 04-19-2002 09:27 PM |
I hope that you're wrong too, Bud. Next year is going to be the one. Now that they have the Fox muscle behind them, look for clearance rates for the channel to soar. At that point, I dunno...
Here's what's interesting as a sidelight, and points out the difficulty with using Nielsens to rule all. Last time I heard, the multiplier (number of households with measuring equipment) was 959,000. It might have gone up a bit since then, but not a lot.
Now, do YOU know anyone with a box or diary? I had a diary once, and they must have thought I was crazy, because all that I watched was Speedvision, Cartoon Network and the Weather Channel. :lol:
But it could well be argued that, given the multiplier's inadequacy, more people are watching certain programs than we know. Until we have true two-way communication, so that our cable companies can register what we're watching (you don't want that, but it may come...), there is no real way to know what the accurate viewership numbers are. Frustrating, to be sure. Tapers are the other thing that isn't measured. I tape almost everything, to watch later. But it doesn't matter how much I love F1, because nobody really knows unless I write a letter or email.
We know that NASCAR is huge. We know that because of the marketing numbers, etc, etc. What we don't know is HOW huge. I, too, believe that the anticipated interest in heavy NASCAR programming is a tad optimistic. Only the future will tell. Hopefully, however, Fox won't be the last gasp for Speed Channel.
Kevin
Here's what's interesting as a sidelight, and points out the difficulty with using Nielsens to rule all. Last time I heard, the multiplier (number of households with measuring equipment) was 959,000. It might have gone up a bit since then, but not a lot.
Now, do YOU know anyone with a box or diary? I had a diary once, and they must have thought I was crazy, because all that I watched was Speedvision, Cartoon Network and the Weather Channel. :lol:
But it could well be argued that, given the multiplier's inadequacy, more people are watching certain programs than we know. Until we have true two-way communication, so that our cable companies can register what we're watching (you don't want that, but it may come...), there is no real way to know what the accurate viewership numbers are. Frustrating, to be sure. Tapers are the other thing that isn't measured. I tape almost everything, to watch later. But it doesn't matter how much I love F1, because nobody really knows unless I write a letter or email.
We know that NASCAR is huge. We know that because of the marketing numbers, etc, etc. What we don't know is HOW huge. I, too, believe that the anticipated interest in heavy NASCAR programming is a tad optimistic. Only the future will tell. Hopefully, however, Fox won't be the last gasp for Speed Channel.
Kevin
| Bonzo | 04-19-2002 10:01 PM |
Interesting but slightly OT for this post. Last week I heard Johnny Cochran(sp) and few of the minority track owners are going after Nascar and the France family for monopolistic business dealings. He even used the word "incestuous"(sp?) :lol:
I guess if he got OJ off, he can get France on.
I guess if he got OJ off, he can get France on.
| Clegg | 04-20-2002 12:01 AM |
Personally I think SpeedTV is rocking quite nicely. I have been able to see flag to flag coverage of Sebring, all the F1 GP races, GT series, WRC. Props to them. They are the only channel that actually shows the programs that the people want.
So what if they have NASCAR filler? would you rather see the fruity guy trying to sell the Ab Flex or something all day long?
So what if they have NASCAR filler? would you rather see the fruity guy trying to sell the Ab Flex or something all day long?
| hotrod | 04-20-2002 12:58 AM |
paying the bills
From the point of the accountants, there is no arguing that they are doing the right thing. NASCAR is second only to NFL in paying spectator numbers in the U.S.. And yes I know that the U.S. is not the whole world, but it is the primary market of Speed Channel.
Don't like all the week day coverage of NASCAR, well I do, I work weekends and the only time I can see the weeks race is when they re-run the past weeks race on Wednesday. Guess what, it is better than the live broadcast because they also insert quick interviews with crew chiefs and drivers explaining why they made the decisions they made. Did they only go to 2 tires instead of 4 because they wanted track position or was it because of some other issue.
I really have difficuly understanding the hostility against NASCAR and the circle tracks given the level of competition and the complex issues involved in being competitve in a sport where the difference between the pole position and last in the field on some tracks starting grids can be less than 2 seconds in lap time. Or a pit stop that takes 30 seconds will put you a lap down.
The apparent assumption that these guys don't know what they are doing (the actual racers) is just not proven by the facts. If they are so imcompetent, why was the first car to average a lap over 200 mph on a closed course a NASCAR racer, Mar 24 1970 at 200.447. The record stood for 5 years until a Porche 917-30 with twice the horsepower, ( the dominate road race car of the time, and considered by many the best road race car of all time) was only able to raise the record to 221.160 in 1975.
The assertion that the fans are morons ----- duh, ever seen a rally fan park a car in a stupid place, or stand in a crowd 5 deep on the outside of a turn ????
If you don't like NASCAR thats okay -- don't watch it. But please enough of the whining already --- its really getting old.
Larry
Don't like all the week day coverage of NASCAR, well I do, I work weekends and the only time I can see the weeks race is when they re-run the past weeks race on Wednesday. Guess what, it is better than the live broadcast because they also insert quick interviews with crew chiefs and drivers explaining why they made the decisions they made. Did they only go to 2 tires instead of 4 because they wanted track position or was it because of some other issue.
I really have difficuly understanding the hostility against NASCAR and the circle tracks given the level of competition and the complex issues involved in being competitve in a sport where the difference between the pole position and last in the field on some tracks starting grids can be less than 2 seconds in lap time. Or a pit stop that takes 30 seconds will put you a lap down.
The apparent assumption that these guys don't know what they are doing (the actual racers) is just not proven by the facts. If they are so imcompetent, why was the first car to average a lap over 200 mph on a closed course a NASCAR racer, Mar 24 1970 at 200.447. The record stood for 5 years until a Porche 917-30 with twice the horsepower, ( the dominate road race car of the time, and considered by many the best road race car of all time) was only able to raise the record to 221.160 in 1975.
The assertion that the fans are morons ----- duh, ever seen a rally fan park a car in a stupid place, or stand in a crowd 5 deep on the outside of a turn ????
If you don't like NASCAR thats okay -- don't watch it. But please enough of the whining already --- its really getting old.
Larry
| Red-Impreza | 04-20-2002 03:49 AM |
[QUOTE]flag to flag coverage of Sebring, all the F1 GP races, GT series, WRC
they also insert quick interviews with crew chiefs and drivers [/QUOTE]
Yes, absolutely! These are things they do exceptionally and I applaud them for this. Good work.
[QUOTE]The apparent assumption that these guys don't know what they are doing (the actual [NASCAR] racers)
The assertion that the fans are morons [/QUOTE]
Personally, I make no such assumptions or assertions. Competition, at the highest level, in any field is unimaginably difficult. Nothing's trivial to the one who actually has to do it.
Oh, and stupidity is universal. If I weren't so damn stupid I'd figure out a way to see the kind of racing I like and not be bothered with all this NASCAR. ;)
[QUOTE]please enough of the whining already --- its really getting old. [/QUOTE]
Not half as old as being drowned in NASCAR Clasics.
This is what annoys me. As I've said before, I refuse to put up and shut up. The price of freedom is vigilance. If those of us who are unhappy with the current deluge of NASCAR on Speed TV do not make our opinions known we will loose our ability to choose anything else because the accountants will take it from us.
If you agree with me write [URL=http://www.speedtv.com/feedback/?lvl=0f&cat=22&a_id=3]Speed TV feedback[/URL] and tell them so. If you disagree and think we should have 24/7 NASCAR, write them and tell them I'm full of crap. That is certainly your prerogative. But, I swear, if anybody else tells me to quit whining... I'm gonna' tell my momy. :p
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You guys are too much fun.
:devil:
they also insert quick interviews with crew chiefs and drivers [/QUOTE]
Yes, absolutely! These are things they do exceptionally and I applaud them for this. Good work.
[QUOTE]The apparent assumption that these guys don't know what they are doing (the actual [NASCAR] racers)
The assertion that the fans are morons [/QUOTE]
Personally, I make no such assumptions or assertions. Competition, at the highest level, in any field is unimaginably difficult. Nothing's trivial to the one who actually has to do it.
Oh, and stupidity is universal. If I weren't so damn stupid I'd figure out a way to see the kind of racing I like and not be bothered with all this NASCAR. ;)
[QUOTE]please enough of the whining already --- its really getting old. [/QUOTE]
Not half as old as being drowned in NASCAR Clasics.
This is what annoys me. As I've said before, I refuse to put up and shut up. The price of freedom is vigilance. If those of us who are unhappy with the current deluge of NASCAR on Speed TV do not make our opinions known we will loose our ability to choose anything else because the accountants will take it from us.
If you agree with me write [URL=http://www.speedtv.com/feedback/?lvl=0f&cat=22&a_id=3]Speed TV feedback[/URL] and tell them so. If you disagree and think we should have 24/7 NASCAR, write them and tell them I'm full of crap. That is certainly your prerogative. But, I swear, if anybody else tells me to quit whining... I'm gonna' tell my momy. :p
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You guys are too much fun.
:devil:
| hotrod | 04-20-2002 04:41 AM |
email from viewers
Well I for one made a point of sending them (several actually) emails in the wee hours of the morning during the coverage of the Rolex 24 race, complaining about the break in coverage, and thanking them for providing what they did. That way the know for a certainty that I was not only interested in seeing it, but stayed awake all night to watch it. One of the things I mentioned is that if for what ever reason they chose to have a dead block of coverage in the middle of the night, they could at least provide a streaming audio, or web page that would allow us crazies to keep up with who broke what at 3:30 in the morning.
I agree, real time feed back, with positive suggestions for coverage improvements is what they should be hearing, and is what they are most likely to act on.
Just telling them I'm mad cause you don't cover what I like and I'm too lazy to record it or switch the channel doesn't strike me as a very constructive way to influence their programming choices.
Larry
I agree, real time feed back, with positive suggestions for coverage improvements is what they should be hearing, and is what they are most likely to act on.
Just telling them I'm mad cause you don't cover what I like and I'm too lazy to record it or switch the channel doesn't strike me as a very constructive way to influence their programming choices.
Larry
| Red-Impreza | 04-20-2002 03:03 PM |
[QUOTE]I for one made a point of sending them (several actually) emails [/QUOTE]
Good!
[QUOTE]Just telling them I'm mad... and I'm too lazy to record[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
[QUOTE]real time feed back, with positive suggestions [/QUOTE]
True, but I do think they need both positive and negative feedback.
I think we're all basically on the same wavelength here. Some of us are just more easily annoyed by different things.
Good!
[QUOTE]Just telling them I'm mad... and I'm too lazy to record[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
[QUOTE]real time feed back, with positive suggestions [/QUOTE]
True, but I do think they need both positive and negative feedback.
I think we're all basically on the same wavelength here. Some of us are just more easily annoyed by different things.
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