| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 12:46 PM |
Another UD/BD item for BSP'ers
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Just found that the Turbo on a 07 STi is different than that of a VF39....
It seems that the part in question makes more power than a 39....and considerable more torque than a 39....I have heard thru the grapevine that this new turbo has more porting done on the Exhaust housing and a ever so slightly larger compressor wheel...:banana: which means Mo POWA....:)...it supposedly has a better Exhaust housing that won't crack like a 39 does...at the wastegate...meaning thicker material...:)
The Turbo on a 07 STi is VF43...which has some definite different flow characteristics...:)...which mean ever so slightly...the VF43 makes more power than a 39 equipped car according to different dyno plots that have been put up for the 07 cars....I know we have tuned one to about a 3% gain over previous year models..and Topspeed has tuned one to about 5% gain...
With that said...I hope to be able to acquire a VF43 in the future...:)..
Part# for VF 39 04-06 STi : 14411aa572
Part# for VF 43 07 STi: 14411aa620
Both list for the same thing...$969.65...
so...looks like I might buy one comeing off a 07 car to facilitate the UD/BD rule...:)
On another note....in SP...since Exhaust is open....what are the Chances that a EWG is legal...:)...
Bill
It seems that the part in question makes more power than a 39....and considerable more torque than a 39....I have heard thru the grapevine that this new turbo has more porting done on the Exhaust housing and a ever so slightly larger compressor wheel...:banana: which means Mo POWA....:)...it supposedly has a better Exhaust housing that won't crack like a 39 does...at the wastegate...meaning thicker material...:)
The Turbo on a 07 STi is VF43...which has some definite different flow characteristics...:)...which mean ever so slightly...the VF43 makes more power than a 39 equipped car according to different dyno plots that have been put up for the 07 cars....I know we have tuned one to about a 3% gain over previous year models..and Topspeed has tuned one to about 5% gain...
With that said...I hope to be able to acquire a VF43 in the future...:)..
Part# for VF 39 04-06 STi : 14411aa572
Part# for VF 43 07 STi: 14411aa620
Both list for the same thing...$969.65...
so...looks like I might buy one comeing off a 07 car to facilitate the UD/BD rule...:)
On another note....in SP...since Exhaust is open....what are the Chances that a EWG is legal...:)...
Bill
| Chiketkd | 12-12-2006 01:06 PM |
That's a sweet find! It'll definitely help BSP STi's close the gap on the Evo IX's...
Now if only they'll give the WRX a better turbo than the TD04! :furious:
Now if only they'll give the WRX a better turbo than the TD04! :furious:
| Calamity Jesus | 12-12-2006 02:06 PM |
Ahhh, so this is how Doug got more powa out of an '07. :alien:
| waktasz | 12-12-2006 02:09 PM |
Sorry I'm not up to snuff on this...but since the STI is a different model, this wouldn't apply to WRXs in ESP, correct?
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 02:50 PM |
[QUOTE=waktasz;16298723]Sorry I'm not up to snuff on this...but since the STI is a different model, this wouldn't apply to WRXs in ESP, correct?[/QUOTE]
that is correct...until the WRX comes with something other than a TD04..thats all the WRX can use...
Essentially now the STi comes(came) with 2 different turbo's...:)
that is correct...until the WRX comes with something other than a TD04..thats all the WRX can use...
Essentially now the STi comes(came) with 2 different turbo's...:)
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 02:52 PM |
[QUOTE=Beaverboy;16298668]Ahhh, so this is how Doug got more powa out of an '07. :alien:[/QUOTE]
I am sure there are other differences in the 07 that has not been tapped yet...(ECU maybe)...gear ratio's...etc....
Bill
I am sure there are other differences in the 07 that has not been tapped yet...(ECU maybe)...gear ratio's...etc....
Bill
| Mykl | 12-12-2006 02:56 PM |
I thought the UD/BD rules required entire engine swaps, to include block, heads, wiring, and ECU and that you couldn't just pick and choose parts?
I guess I was wrong... good for me. :)
I guess I was wrong... good for me. :)
| Mykl | 12-12-2006 02:58 PM |
...oh, and if you guys didn't already know, the '07 STi comes with very nice cowl stays (aka fender braces) that are *much* beefier than the '04-'06 stays. They look as beefy as any aftermarket replacement curently out there.
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 03:05 PM |
[QUOTE=Mykl;16299455]...oh, and if you guys didn't already know, the '07 STi comes with very nice cowl stays (aka fender braces) that are *much* beefier than the '04-'06 stays. They look as beefy as any aftermarket replacement curently out there.[/QUOTE]
O'Rly......sueeeeeeeeeet...off to check out the 07 in the showroom...:)
Bill
O'Rly......sueeeeeeeeeet...off to check out the 07 in the showroom...:)
Bill
| Mykl | 12-12-2006 03:09 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16299584]O'Rly......sueeeeeeeeeet...off to check out the 07 in the showroom...:)
Bill[/QUOTE]
[img]http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/yarly-42675.jpg[/img]
[url]https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_95&products_id=1149[/url]
A little more pricey than aftermarket, but legal!
Bill[/QUOTE]
[img]http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/yarly-42675.jpg[/img]
[url]https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_95&products_id=1149[/url]
A little more pricey than aftermarket, but legal!
| Calamity Jesus | 12-12-2006 03:19 PM |
[QUOTE=Mykl;16299429]I thought the UD/BD rules required entire engine swaps, to include block, heads, wiring, and ECU and that you couldn't just pick and choose parts?
I guess I was wrong... good for me. :)[/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure the clause about moving engines and transmissions as a unit is only referring to the parts that you can't traditionally touch in SP... the internals. For instance, they don't want people creating Frankenstein motors by using a head from x year and pistons from y year.
I guess I was wrong... good for me. :)[/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure the clause about moving engines and transmissions as a unit is only referring to the parts that you can't traditionally touch in SP... the internals. For instance, they don't want people creating Frankenstein motors by using a head from x year and pistons from y year.
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 03:25 PM |
[QUOTE=Mykl;16299455]...oh, and if you guys didn't already know, the '07 STi comes with very nice cowl stays (aka fender braces) that are *much* beefier than the '04-'06 stays. They look as beefy as any aftermarket replacement curently out there.[/QUOTE]
I'll be damn'd....coooooooooool...ok..this is also correct....the new ones look like TIC's on they use Round Bar vs. the Square bar TIC uses...Much beefier than the old stock ones for sure..
old cheapy part#'s
LH:57121AA011
RH:57121AA001
New part #'s 07 STi
LH:50866FE040
RH:50866FE030
They list for 97.07 ea...;)
Bill
I'll be damn'd....coooooooooool...ok..this is also correct....the new ones look like TIC's on they use Round Bar vs. the Square bar TIC uses...Much beefier than the old stock ones for sure..
old cheapy part#'s
LH:57121AA011
RH:57121AA001
New part #'s 07 STi
LH:50866FE040
RH:50866FE030
They list for 97.07 ea...;)
Bill
| Whiteghost 2.5 | 12-12-2006 03:25 PM |
Yes you have to make sure you can ud/bd the turbo seperately. you have to change engines for engines and trans for trans. But it may be just the block and heads as intake manifolds are open and exhausts are open. Just have to go through the rules really well.
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 03:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Whiteghost 2.5;16299942]Yes you have to make sure you can ud/bd the turbo seperately. you have to change engines for engines and trans for trans. But it may be just the block and heads as intake manifolds are open and exhausts are open. Just have to go through the rules really well.[/QUOTE]
Evo guys have updated their turbos'....BSP nationals winner using a 05 Turbo on his 03...
Bill
Evo guys have updated their turbos'....BSP nationals winner using a 05 Turbo on his 03...
Bill
| Mykl | 12-12-2006 03:42 PM |
Well then, I guess that answers that.
How much could actually be gained from going to a VF43 from a VF39?
How much could actually be gained from going to a VF43 from a VF39?
| PhilC | 12-12-2006 04:01 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16300032]Evo guys have updated their turbos'....BSP nationals winner using a 05 Turbo on his 03...
Bill[/QUOTE]
Tak's car this year was an '06 and last year was an '05. One of those advantages of owning the dealership means that you can get a new one every year.
This one is right there in the rules 15.10.4.A:
"Turbochargers or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine unit."
So if you want the different turbo you've got to get the complete engine like an '07, which means the new heads for certain as I know they are different and may mean that the whole long block has to be purchased.
Bill[/QUOTE]
Tak's car this year was an '06 and last year was an '05. One of those advantages of owning the dealership means that you can get a new one every year.
This one is right there in the rules 15.10.4.A:
"Turbochargers or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine unit."
So if you want the different turbo you've got to get the complete engine like an '07, which means the new heads for certain as I know they are different and may mean that the whole long block has to be purchased.
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 04:02 PM |
[QUOTE=Mykl;16300184]Well then, I guess that answers that.
How much could actually be gained from going to a VF43 from a VF39?[/QUOTE]
not sure....but from the numbers...its more in torque than HP....
375 lbs of torque out of a VF43..vs a highly tuned well known BSP 05 STi only made 360 lbs of torque on Stompy...
Bill
How much could actually be gained from going to a VF43 from a VF39?[/QUOTE]
not sure....but from the numbers...its more in torque than HP....
375 lbs of torque out of a VF43..vs a highly tuned well known BSP 05 STi only made 360 lbs of torque on Stompy...
Bill
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 04:07 PM |
[QUOTE=PhilC;16300467]Tak's car this year was an '06 and last year was an '05. One of those advantages of owning the dealership means that you can get a new one every year.
This one is right there in the rules 15.10.4.A:
"Turbochargers or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine unit."
So if you want the different turbo you've got to get the complete engine like an '07, which means the new heads for certain as I know they are different and may mean that the whole long block has to be purchased.[/QUOTE]
true...then I guess it was Tage's car....I read about it somewhere....
This one is right there in the rules 15.10.4.A:
"Turbochargers or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine unit."
So if you want the different turbo you've got to get the complete engine like an '07, which means the new heads for certain as I know they are different and may mean that the whole long block has to be purchased.[/QUOTE]
true...then I guess it was Tage's car....I read about it somewhere....
| PhilC | 12-12-2006 04:19 PM |
Tage's car is also listed as an '06 in the results. That one I don't know for certain though. The point is that if they used an '05 turbo on an '03 then everything else about the engine that can't be changed in the SP rules has to be the same for the car to be legal. In the case of the Subaru you can't just swap the turbo using update/backdate because there were other changes to the engine that you'd also have to swap. Are the shortblocks the same part number for '06 and '07 since we know the heads changed?
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 04:24 PM |
Who's is the Red 03 RS with no wing....it has a 05 turbo on it..I think it was in Sportscar Mag....I have to look at home...
Bill
Bill
| Scooby South | 12-12-2006 04:26 PM |
[QUOTE=PhilC;16300467]Tak's car this year was an '06 and last year was an '05. One of those advantages of owning the dealership means that you can get a new one every year.
This one is right there in the rules 15.10.4.A:
"Turbochargers or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine unit."
So if you want the different turbo you've got to get the complete engine like an '07, which means the new heads for certain as I know they are different and may mean that the whole long block has to be purchased.[/QUOTE]
Looking at this means I can't do it...:(...Oh well...
[B]On another note....in SP...since Exhaust is open....what are the Chances that a EWG is legal......[/B]
Bill
This one is right there in the rules 15.10.4.A:
"Turbochargers or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine unit."
So if you want the different turbo you've got to get the complete engine like an '07, which means the new heads for certain as I know they are different and may mean that the whole long block has to be purchased.[/QUOTE]
Looking at this means I can't do it...:(...Oh well...
[B]On another note....in SP...since Exhaust is open....what are the Chances that a EWG is legal......[/B]
Bill
| 10th Warrior | 12-12-2006 04:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16300865]Who's is the Red 03 RS with no wing....it has a 05 turbo on it..I think it was in Sportscar Mag....I have to look at home...
Bill[/QUOTE]
That was the Tak/Lieber car that won ESP last year. Frank Miller and his son Aaron were running it this year but Aaron couldn't make Nationals so Tage drove it.
Bill[/QUOTE]
That was the Tak/Lieber car that won ESP last year. Frank Miller and his son Aaron were running it this year but Aaron couldn't make Nationals so Tage drove it.
| Warp3 | 12-12-2006 04:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16300904][B]On another note....in SP...since Exhaust is open....what are the Chances that a EWG is legal......[/B]
Bill[/QUOTE]
You're not even trying now... :p :lol: ;)
[quote]15.10.C.4.b) No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometry turbine (VGT) hardware.[/quote]
Bill[/QUOTE]
You're not even trying now... :p :lol: ;)
[quote]15.10.C.4.b) No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometry turbine (VGT) hardware.[/quote]
| Scooby921 | 12-12-2006 05:52 PM |
[QUOTE=10th Warrior;16301011]That was the Tak/Lieber car that won ESP last year. Frank Miller and his son Aaron were running it this year but Aaron couldn't make Nationals so Tage drove it.[/QUOTE]
I thought Miller bought last year's car, which would have been an '05. I have no idea who own's their car from the year prior.
As for the EWG rule...not only do the notes in the above post give reasoning, I believe the rule from ST carries over in which you are not allowed to change the way the turbo controls boost (wastegate).
I thought Miller bought last year's car, which would have been an '05. I have no idea who own's their car from the year prior.
As for the EWG rule...not only do the notes in the above post give reasoning, I believe the rule from ST carries over in which you are not allowed to change the way the turbo controls boost (wastegate).
| afpdl | 12-12-2006 07:46 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16300865]Who's is the Red 03 RS with no wing....it has a 05 turbo on it..I think it was in Sportscar Mag....I have to look at home...
Bill[/QUOTE]
If the 03 and 05 evo engines contain the same part numbers than there is no problem swapping turbos and nothing else. But the 07 sti did change from the 04-06s. Because of this you have to swap EVERYTHING on the engine that changed if you want the new turbo. At minimum that means new heads.
Bill[/QUOTE]
If the 03 and 05 evo engines contain the same part numbers than there is no problem swapping turbos and nothing else. But the 07 sti did change from the 04-06s. Because of this you have to swap EVERYTHING on the engine that changed if you want the new turbo. At minimum that means new heads.
| angryfist | 12-13-2006 09:00 AM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16300865]Who's is the Red 03 RS with no wing....it has a 05 turbo on it..I think it was in Sportscar Mag....I have to look at home...
Bill[/QUOTE]
Tage was driving last years national champ car which was the red '05 evo. it was NOT '03 with an '05 turbo.
if you want to use the 07 turbo you are going to have to change everything that isnt open in SP rules to match the 07 engine.
Bill[/QUOTE]
Tage was driving last years national champ car which was the red '05 evo. it was NOT '03 with an '05 turbo.
if you want to use the 07 turbo you are going to have to change everything that isnt open in SP rules to match the 07 engine.
| KC | 12-13-2006 09:10 AM |
What's different inside the '07 engine compared to older models?
Just curious because I haven't been keeping up on what's new. :)
--kC
Just curious because I haven't been keeping up on what's new. :)
--kC
| PhilC | 12-13-2006 10:17 AM |
Officially the following from Subaru press releases:
The EJ257's cylinder heads have been redesigned to improve cooling, and the sodium-filled exhaust valves have been dropped. The alternator is changed from a 90A rating to 110 amps (don't remember if alternator swaps are open in SP or not).
They also went back to rubber and metal motor mounts instead of plastic ones but you can swap those anyways.
The open question seems to be if the shortblock or other engine parts experienced any changes or if it is just the heads and valves.
The EJ257's cylinder heads have been redesigned to improve cooling, and the sodium-filled exhaust valves have been dropped. The alternator is changed from a 90A rating to 110 amps (don't remember if alternator swaps are open in SP or not).
They also went back to rubber and metal motor mounts instead of plastic ones but you can swap those anyways.
The open question seems to be if the shortblock or other engine parts experienced any changes or if it is just the heads and valves.
| Scooby South | 12-13-2006 11:20 AM |
[QUOTE=PhilC;16308713]Officially the following from Subaru press releases:
The EJ257's cylinder heads have been redesigned to improve cooling, and the sodium-filled exhaust valves have been dropped. The alternator is changed from a 90A rating to 110 amps (don't remember if alternator swaps are open in SP or not).
They also went back to rubber and metal motor mounts instead of plastic ones but you can swap those anyways.
The open question seems to be if the shortblock or other engine parts experienced any changes or if it is just the heads and valves.[/QUOTE]
Shortblock is a different part #....dont' know exactly what the differences are...
like I said....Oh well...at least we get to UD/BD the Cowl stays...I have 4 sets of them coming in...:)
At least we know some good info..:)
The EJ257's cylinder heads have been redesigned to improve cooling, and the sodium-filled exhaust valves have been dropped. The alternator is changed from a 90A rating to 110 amps (don't remember if alternator swaps are open in SP or not).
They also went back to rubber and metal motor mounts instead of plastic ones but you can swap those anyways.
The open question seems to be if the shortblock or other engine parts experienced any changes or if it is just the heads and valves.[/QUOTE]
Shortblock is a different part #....dont' know exactly what the differences are...
like I said....Oh well...at least we get to UD/BD the Cowl stays...I have 4 sets of them coming in...:)
At least we know some good info..:)
| REX8 | 12-13-2006 11:52 AM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16300486]not sure....but from the numbers...its more in torque than HP....
375 lbs of torque out of a VF43..vs a highly tuned well known BSP 05 STi only made 360 lbs of torque on Stompy...
Bill[/QUOTE]
Which just means that it will have more power.
No need to make torque and power distinct things here. If it makes more torque, it makes more power at that given RPM.
375 lbs of torque out of a VF43..vs a highly tuned well known BSP 05 STi only made 360 lbs of torque on Stompy...
Bill[/QUOTE]
Which just means that it will have more power.
No need to make torque and power distinct things here. If it makes more torque, it makes more power at that given RPM.
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