| mprezau2 | 11-22-2001 11:45 PM |
Blue Carbon Fiber Hood(WRX)???
OK... I've been searching to my hearts content. I can't find any pics of any 2002 Blue WRX with a BLUE carbon fiber hood. My car got $2800 of paint damage courtisy of IDOT. So, I'm thinking about replacing the hood. But, sorry, a black hood on a blue car just doesn't do anything for me. So, does anyone have any pics or links to a blue WRX with a blue carbon fiber hood? Any help is appreciated.
| gary501 | 11-22-2001 11:56 PM |
Hey it don't look too good on the rally blue, only on the black.
U can't paint the carbon fibre, i would recommend you purchase the fibreglass one.
RLYWRX
U can't paint the carbon fibre, i would recommend you purchase the fibreglass one.
RLYWRX
| bsquare | 11-23-2001 12:00 AM |
Maybe he means a carbon fiber hood with blue fibers woven in. You can paint carbon fiber hoods, but not if they are clearcoated to remain unpainted.
| mprezau2 | 11-23-2001 12:10 AM |
Correction- Blue WEAVE carbon fiber
Thanks. That's what I meant. I'm looking for a pic of the blue or blue/black weave carbon fiber hood on a WRB WRX.
| WRX Power | 11-23-2001 12:52 AM |
Be careful not to crash if you get a carbon fiber hood. It might fly thru the windshield, taking your head with it.
| Andrew | 11-23-2001 01:41 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRX Power [/i]
[B]Be careful not to crash if you get a carbon fiber hood. It might fly thru the windshield, taking your head with it. [/B][/QUOTE]
you serious? ive never heard of this before. is the CF that strong that it wont break?
[B]Be careful not to crash if you get a carbon fiber hood. It might fly thru the windshield, taking your head with it. [/B][/QUOTE]
you serious? ive never heard of this before. is the CF that strong that it wont break?
| jhonas | 11-23-2001 01:45 AM |
I guess if you were going to die in a crash, the way to go would be by carbon fiber.
Do you really think that it would do that? I really don't know, but the info I'm getting out of thin air would tell me that the CF hood wouldn't take off your head in a crash. It'd be a law suit waiting to happen.
Do you really think that it would do that? I really don't know, but the info I'm getting out of thin air would tell me that the CF hood wouldn't take off your head in a crash. It'd be a law suit waiting to happen.
| livewirevoodoo | 11-23-2001 02:14 AM |
it wont survive the crash
my friend justin had a cf hood on his 1997 rx 7. He had a head on collision with another car going about 95 mph. The hood shatterd and only pieces were left just like the rest of the car. Carbon fibers tencil strength is not that high. It is greater than fiber glass but it is not invincible. I make wakeboards out of the stuff. It is light and tougher than fiberglass but definately not invincible. THe hood would not go through your windshield. one in a million chance.
| kRn-sTiwAg0N-kId | 11-23-2001 04:45 AM |
Re: it wont survive the crash
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by livewirevoodoo [/i]
[B]my friend justin had a cf hood on his 1997 rx 7. He had a head on collision with another car going about 95 mph. The hood shatterd and only pieces were left just like the rest of the car. Carbon fibers tencil strength is not that high. It is greater than fiber glass but it is not invincible. I make wakeboards out of the stuff. It is light and tougher than fiberglass but definately not invincible. THe hood would not go through your windshield. one in a million chance. [/B][/QUOTE]
but he should still be concerned... i forgot which magazine, but they ran a car over a CF hood and no damage... just a tire mark... im sure it wont happen, but its just a thought... by the way, i hear making your own hood with like those molding kits is a lot cheaper... i could be wrong:confused:
[B]my friend justin had a cf hood on his 1997 rx 7. He had a head on collision with another car going about 95 mph. The hood shatterd and only pieces were left just like the rest of the car. Carbon fibers tencil strength is not that high. It is greater than fiber glass but it is not invincible. I make wakeboards out of the stuff. It is light and tougher than fiberglass but definately not invincible. THe hood would not go through your windshield. one in a million chance. [/B][/QUOTE]
but he should still be concerned... i forgot which magazine, but they ran a car over a CF hood and no damage... just a tire mark... im sure it wont happen, but its just a thought... by the way, i hear making your own hood with like those molding kits is a lot cheaper... i could be wrong:confused:
| Simon Lines | 11-23-2001 05:40 AM |
Guys
I'm not an expert in this field so I checked with one of our composite engineers.
GENERALY a CF hood would be able to accept a car driving over it (although it would be unacceptably weakened - The fibres would be invisibly damaged) but if you tried to push it through a windshield it would either slide up the screen or splinter and crush, it's far weaker than a windshield, your more likely to loose your head to the screen than the hood.
If the angle of approach is correct a 357 round will ricochet off a screen (although it will star and crack)
Your "normal" steel hood is actually more likely to penetrate than a CF one, but the angle of attack would have to be very close to 90 deg and without lateral movement during the penetration.
In short modern laminated screens are VERY tough, it's one of the reasons their bonded in, apart from making the shell stronger, You don't want it floating around during primary or secondary impact's
Morbid thread :)
Cheers
Simon
I'm not an expert in this field so I checked with one of our composite engineers.
GENERALY a CF hood would be able to accept a car driving over it (although it would be unacceptably weakened - The fibres would be invisibly damaged) but if you tried to push it through a windshield it would either slide up the screen or splinter and crush, it's far weaker than a windshield, your more likely to loose your head to the screen than the hood.
If the angle of approach is correct a 357 round will ricochet off a screen (although it will star and crack)
Your "normal" steel hood is actually more likely to penetrate than a CF one, but the angle of attack would have to be very close to 90 deg and without lateral movement during the penetration.
In short modern laminated screens are VERY tough, it's one of the reasons their bonded in, apart from making the shell stronger, You don't want it floating around during primary or secondary impact's
Morbid thread :)
Cheers
Simon
| ellisnc | 11-23-2001 07:11 AM |
wow a 1997 RX7, you must have lived in Japan...
| Dismo | 11-23-2001 08:43 AM |
hoodpins would help;)
| gary501 | 11-23-2001 12:05 PM |
1997 rx7?
Where did he source that?
Is it left hand drive?
Is it for Sale?
RLYWRX
Where did he source that?
Is it left hand drive?
Is it for Sale?
RLYWRX
| irwrx | 11-23-2001 03:09 PM |
I have a Blue WRX with a Blue Carbon hood.
What I did for my car is got a carbon fiber hood for Carisma in Northridge CA. Then took it to Nish Designs in Carson, CA. Nish Designs put a couple coats of candy blue and some clear over it too. He also painted the bottom a gloss black. Nish Designs does this work on the side so his prices are very good. You can get the hood and paint work from Gary at Nish Designs. 310-631-8081.
| bsquare | 11-23-2001 03:30 PM |
[QUOTE]Then you can paint it, unlike carbon fibre. [/QUOTE]
Wrong. You can paint CF, please sit down.
Wrong. You can paint CF, please sit down.
| Somber | 11-23-2001 04:32 PM |
sigh..
I have a WRBP WRX, and a black/grey CF hood... I left the side skirts black and ut some antrhacite wheels on the car and I personally think that it balanced out the black hood very well... I haven't found a pic of a black/blue weave on any WRX yet either... I chose my C/F hood because the stock alumi hood took a pounding in a hail storm while I was cruising down the interstate with no where to hide (no marks on roof or trunk lid, but the aluminum hood was beyond repair)... a new alumi hood from Subaru was $550, and the estimate was $250 or so to shoot the hood to match (which is always a concern, how well will they match)... so I grabbed a $450 hood from BodyKits NW... I assumed that if I liked the looks with it unpainted, I'd leave it - if I didn't, I'd wait until I had other paint needs and get everything shot at once... I got used to the C/F and really like it now... and the gel coat is soaking up things that would have chipped the hood paint...
one other thing to consider - if you do go with a black/blue weave, you will most likely want to carry that theme across any additional C/F that you use on the car... that means that things like the STi C/F spoiler, mirrors, or C/F front corner covers - or things like the Zerosports fender "vents" would all be out of the question...
as far as worrying about decapitation - any hood can, under the wrong (and almost impossible to create) conditions could penetrate the windshield... the C/F hood is wider than the pillars, and the windshields are amazingly strong... I'm not any more worried driving today than I was before the hail storm...
one other thing to consider - if you do go with a black/blue weave, you will most likely want to carry that theme across any additional C/F that you use on the car... that means that things like the STi C/F spoiler, mirrors, or C/F front corner covers - or things like the Zerosports fender "vents" would all be out of the question...
as far as worrying about decapitation - any hood can, under the wrong (and almost impossible to create) conditions could penetrate the windshield... the C/F hood is wider than the pillars, and the windshields are amazingly strong... I'm not any more worried driving today than I was before the hail storm...
| mprezau2 | 11-23-2001 07:31 PM |
Decapitation or Blue Carbon Fiber Hood??
Wow, It amazes me that decapitation with a carbon fiber hood makes it into just about every post even remotely related to carbon fiber. I gave up on buying the carbon fiber interior trim... I was concerned about loosing an arm! Seriously though, no one has found any pics? I know that I've read several posts/group buys that mentioned the blue or blue/black weave. Does anyone know of anyone that has bought one?? Again, any help is appreciated.
| Gerry | 11-23-2001 11:27 PM |
Well I just need to set something straight about carbon hoods...There is no Blue carbon weaves, To make the hoods have different color weaving in it, they use a carbon/kevlar weave. The kevlar is the color portion, Not the carbon. If you want to source a carbon/kevlar hood with a blue weave tru out carbonhoods.com, They have many colors to choose from....Gerry
| Saco1997 | 11-24-2001 12:33 AM |
Originally posted by WRX Power
Be careful not to crash if you get a carbon fiber hood. It might fly thru the windshield, taking your head with it.
Ok i really don't think you konw what you are talkin about. I just put a 1998 BMW 328i through a telephone pole at around 50 mph and the hood COMPLETELY shattered. Like into a million litle timy carbon fibre square sized pieces. It was GONE. There was nothing left except he fibreglass undertructure. It will definatly not kill you so don't let this person getyou shook. Every one that i have spoken to concerning this matter (around 20 people) who have crashed cars with carbon fibre hoods, grilles, bumpers, etc. all have said the same thing. Get it painted in blue around the edges and leave the middle area the carbon color kind of like this shape :
________________________
l __________________ |
l \ / l
l \ (hood scoop) / l
l \ here / l
l \_____________/ l
l_______________________l
I konw it loks a little rough but you should get the idea. Everything else on thehood will be blue except the area shown in the middle. I have seen this done and personally i think it looks much better than just painting the whole thing. Just my $.02.
Peace
-Jim
Be careful not to crash if you get a carbon fiber hood. It might fly thru the windshield, taking your head with it.
Ok i really don't think you konw what you are talkin about. I just put a 1998 BMW 328i through a telephone pole at around 50 mph and the hood COMPLETELY shattered. Like into a million litle timy carbon fibre square sized pieces. It was GONE. There was nothing left except he fibreglass undertructure. It will definatly not kill you so don't let this person getyou shook. Every one that i have spoken to concerning this matter (around 20 people) who have crashed cars with carbon fibre hoods, grilles, bumpers, etc. all have said the same thing. Get it painted in blue around the edges and leave the middle area the carbon color kind of like this shape :
________________________
l __________________ |
l \ / l
l \ (hood scoop) / l
l \ here / l
l \_____________/ l
l_______________________l
I konw it loks a little rough but you should get the idea. Everything else on thehood will be blue except the area shown in the middle. I have seen this done and personally i think it looks much better than just painting the whole thing. Just my $.02.
Peace
-Jim
| Saco1997 | 11-24-2001 12:36 AM |
bled that didn't work at all, lemmie try this again.
___________________
l _______________ l
l \ / l
l \ (scoop here) / l
l \____________/ l
l l
l__________________l
Hopefully this one will give yo the idea
peace
-jim
___________________
l _______________ l
l \ / l
l \ (scoop here) / l
l \____________/ l
l l
l__________________l
Hopefully this one will give yo the idea
peace
-jim
| 870Fragmaster | 11-25-2001 01:07 AM |
Actually the tensile strength of carbon fiber is very high. from [url]http://matweb.com[/url] the average tensile strength of the carbon fiber composites listed is about 810MPa(117kpsi). The max is 2100MPa! This is stronger than most mild steels. 1050 cold drawn steel 690MPa. a 4130 water-quenched and tempered is about 1630MPa. On the compressive side though, the average compressive yield strenght is 530MPa.
The thing about cabon fiber is it is brittle.(not tough-where tough is defined as the area under the stress-strain curver). Once you reach the yield point of carbon fiber it shatters. Steel is more graceful. once the yield point is reached it will plasticaly deform. So your steel or aluminum hood will bend but your carbon fiber will shatter. when you drive over it as long as you dont exceed the yield strength it'll be ok where your metallic hood would have bent.
i tried to dredge up some stress strain curves but could not find any offhand.
The thing about cabon fiber is it is brittle.(not tough-where tough is defined as the area under the stress-strain curver). Once you reach the yield point of carbon fiber it shatters. Steel is more graceful. once the yield point is reached it will plasticaly deform. So your steel or aluminum hood will bend but your carbon fiber will shatter. when you drive over it as long as you dont exceed the yield strength it'll be ok where your metallic hood would have bent.
i tried to dredge up some stress strain curves but could not find any offhand.
| WRX Power | 11-25-2001 03:37 PM |
I'll just take the word from a Mechanical Engineer by degree and practice who has real world experience (my friend Mark @ Kartboy)
[i]quote: ([email protected])[/i]
[b]Are carbon hoods cool? Well, maybe if they were all carbon and weighed 5 lbs. I don't want to go into my garage on a hot day and smell my Polyester/Chopped Mat/Single layer of Carbon hood outgassing. I also would like to know what happens to my hood in a frontal crash. I have worked on Big 3 programs with composite hoods that, when improperly designed, shoot straight through the windshield, trying to decapitate a very expensive test dummy. Do you want to be that test dummy after buying a hood from the back of SCC for $450? I know what it takes to run and iterate crash models in simulation, lots of time and money, money that aftemarket companies don't spend. We don't sell CF hoods, and we won't. [/b]
If you need to read the whole thread (which you should do anyways, it has a lot of valuable information regarding what exactly carbon fiber is), here is the link:
[url]http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97242[/url]
[i]quote: ([email protected])[/i]
[b]Are carbon hoods cool? Well, maybe if they were all carbon and weighed 5 lbs. I don't want to go into my garage on a hot day and smell my Polyester/Chopped Mat/Single layer of Carbon hood outgassing. I also would like to know what happens to my hood in a frontal crash. I have worked on Big 3 programs with composite hoods that, when improperly designed, shoot straight through the windshield, trying to decapitate a very expensive test dummy. Do you want to be that test dummy after buying a hood from the back of SCC for $450? I know what it takes to run and iterate crash models in simulation, lots of time and money, money that aftemarket companies don't spend. We don't sell CF hoods, and we won't. [/b]
If you need to read the whole thread (which you should do anyways, it has a lot of valuable information regarding what exactly carbon fiber is), here is the link:
[url]http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97242[/url]
| Somber | 11-26-2001 12:43 AM |
I'm sorry to continue the thread hijacking, but...
I am growing tired of reading about how I'm going to die because of my C/F hood purchase in every single thread that involves C/F...
I'm a Mechanical Engineer working as an Aerospace Engineer - and I do a lot of work with composites - I'm not an expert in the design and test of C/F hoods, but I think I have an understanding of most of the underlying issues here. There is no easy answer to this question. There have been many accidents involving metal hoods in which the extreme circumstances involved in the crash resulted in the metal hood coming through the windscreen... My brother came across one of these accidents while in highschool - this was technically not a decapitation, but instead the torn edge of the hood cut about half way through the drivers skull...
I'm sure that there are circumstances in which a composite hood might do the same... certainly there have been more crash tests done with metallic hoods than with composite hoods, but that does not mean that we can automatically assume that C/F hoods are more dangerous...
my C/F hood is not particularly well built, which is why it was inexpensive - it is basically just a fiberglass hood with a C/F "cover"... am I safe with fiberglass? What if I'd found a steal hood instead, am I less safe? or an aftermarket aluminum hood? did they do the same testing that the manufacturer did? what if my over-weight body slams up against my kartboy shifter - and the increased strength designed into their product results in a spiral fracture of my femur, broken hip, and shattered pelvis? would the stock shifter have laid over easier reducing the damage to my body? are we not supposed to buy any aftermarket gear???
so, we have Saco relating his personal experience with an accident in a car with a C/F hood, and also relating information he's heard from others who have had accidents with C/F gear on their cars... I have no reason to doubt him...
also, I believe Mark when he says he was involved in testing that went badly...
so now what do I do? I wanted to know if I could find some more information to help me gauge the risks we are talking about...
so, I thought I'd try this another way - I spent a few hours digging through information on the internet - primarily using Google - and I need some help...
I found a few more occurences of claims in forums similar to what is always brought up on I-club, but I could not find single solitary source of information regarding an actual accident report... I couldn't find a single tech article denouncing the use of C/F in hoods... not a single article by any auto maker explaining why they are not using C/F because of the risks they feel are inherent to the material... not one racing association that banned the hoods because of safety to the driver (some mandate hood pins, and some ban the use of C/F allogether because of weight issues")...
is the risk of C/F hoods overstated? From my unscientific research it appears so to me. Can anyone else find more data that says this isn't so? I am genuinely interested to know if I'm overconfident in not worrying about my hood.
I'm a Mechanical Engineer working as an Aerospace Engineer - and I do a lot of work with composites - I'm not an expert in the design and test of C/F hoods, but I think I have an understanding of most of the underlying issues here. There is no easy answer to this question. There have been many accidents involving metal hoods in which the extreme circumstances involved in the crash resulted in the metal hood coming through the windscreen... My brother came across one of these accidents while in highschool - this was technically not a decapitation, but instead the torn edge of the hood cut about half way through the drivers skull...
I'm sure that there are circumstances in which a composite hood might do the same... certainly there have been more crash tests done with metallic hoods than with composite hoods, but that does not mean that we can automatically assume that C/F hoods are more dangerous...
my C/F hood is not particularly well built, which is why it was inexpensive - it is basically just a fiberglass hood with a C/F "cover"... am I safe with fiberglass? What if I'd found a steal hood instead, am I less safe? or an aftermarket aluminum hood? did they do the same testing that the manufacturer did? what if my over-weight body slams up against my kartboy shifter - and the increased strength designed into their product results in a spiral fracture of my femur, broken hip, and shattered pelvis? would the stock shifter have laid over easier reducing the damage to my body? are we not supposed to buy any aftermarket gear???
so, we have Saco relating his personal experience with an accident in a car with a C/F hood, and also relating information he's heard from others who have had accidents with C/F gear on their cars... I have no reason to doubt him...
also, I believe Mark when he says he was involved in testing that went badly...
so now what do I do? I wanted to know if I could find some more information to help me gauge the risks we are talking about...
so, I thought I'd try this another way - I spent a few hours digging through information on the internet - primarily using Google - and I need some help...
I found a few more occurences of claims in forums similar to what is always brought up on I-club, but I could not find single solitary source of information regarding an actual accident report... I couldn't find a single tech article denouncing the use of C/F in hoods... not a single article by any auto maker explaining why they are not using C/F because of the risks they feel are inherent to the material... not one racing association that banned the hoods because of safety to the driver (some mandate hood pins, and some ban the use of C/F allogether because of weight issues")...
is the risk of C/F hoods overstated? From my unscientific research it appears so to me. Can anyone else find more data that says this isn't so? I am genuinely interested to know if I'm overconfident in not worrying about my hood.
| WRX Power | 11-26-2001 01:46 AM |
Well... there is a certain risk with ANYTHING... that's why I originally said, although bluntly, it [i]might[/i] fly through the windshield and take your head with it.
And yes, the question is, just what is that risk? Unfortunately, in the information I have been exposed too, I am [i]biased[/i] towards carbon fiber hoods decapitating people. I am opening my eyes more to more real world experiences, but I still haven't had an urge to go buy a hood... not to mention the one a fellow WRX owner has. It weighs nearly the same as the stock one... I swear if I was blindfolded I would not be able to tell. It wasn't THAT much lighter.
Just remember that the risk does exist... and risk is involved in almost all we do in our everyday lives. So, do you wanna risk it? :)
And yes, the question is, just what is that risk? Unfortunately, in the information I have been exposed too, I am [i]biased[/i] towards carbon fiber hoods decapitating people. I am opening my eyes more to more real world experiences, but I still haven't had an urge to go buy a hood... not to mention the one a fellow WRX owner has. It weighs nearly the same as the stock one... I swear if I was blindfolded I would not be able to tell. It wasn't THAT much lighter.
Just remember that the risk does exist... and risk is involved in almost all we do in our everyday lives. So, do you wanna risk it? :)
| vividracing | 11-26-2001 02:23 AM |
I have a pic of the blue hood from a WRX at SEMA, email for picture.
| juggalo | 11-26-2001 10:47 PM |
i do stuctural matnence on jets for the airforce and we do work with some c/f. if i were worried about the hood comming through the windsheild i would take my chances with a c/f hood any day of the week. c/f has a high tensil strenth but tensil strength is measures pulling forces(kina like arubber band). that has nothing to do with a crash. IMO
| PhlypSide | 11-27-2001 12:24 AM |
When you pass the tensile strength limits of Carbon fiber/Carbon Kevlar it simply gets pulverized, it doesn't like to bend very much, very rigid. (Sorta like the titanium connecting rods in NSXs... LOL)
Carbon-kevlar is also used to make driveshafts (there are a few Supras in the country running these) because it's lighter....
This is another side benefit to cars with carbon-kevlar driveshafts, if for whatever reason the driveshaft breaks, it shatters into tiny pieces, instead of breaking in half and entering the passenger compartment and possibly skewering the occupant(s).
lateRZ
"I'm also looking for a WRB CF hood :)"
Carbon-kevlar is also used to make driveshafts (there are a few Supras in the country running these) because it's lighter....
This is another side benefit to cars with carbon-kevlar driveshafts, if for whatever reason the driveshaft breaks, it shatters into tiny pieces, instead of breaking in half and entering the passenger compartment and possibly skewering the occupant(s).
lateRZ
"I'm also looking for a WRB CF hood :)"
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