| MattNJ2.8 | 06-07-2005 02:26 PM |
Camber Plates / Alignment Shops
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This may sound like an odd question, but bear with me please.
Based on advice from members in Motorsports, I have decided to pick up a set of Camber plates to solve my WRX's inability to get a decent alignment.
Based on further research, I picked the Noltec set as my best choice (Race, if I can find a set in stock).
[B]Question: Do most alignment shops know how to work with a set of camber plates? Do I need to instruct them how to? [/B]
How does one go about "marking" the plates for 2 alignment settings (street/auto-x)...It would seem that the shop would have to do it.
Unfortunately, I don't have a motorsports shop available with an alignment machine nearby, so I have to rely on some of the mass-market providers.
Thoughts?
Based on advice from members in Motorsports, I have decided to pick up a set of Camber plates to solve my WRX's inability to get a decent alignment.
Based on further research, I picked the Noltec set as my best choice (Race, if I can find a set in stock).
[B]Question: Do most alignment shops know how to work with a set of camber plates? Do I need to instruct them how to? [/B]
How does one go about "marking" the plates for 2 alignment settings (street/auto-x)...It would seem that the shop would have to do it.
Unfortunately, I don't have a motorsports shop available with an alignment machine nearby, so I have to rely on some of the mass-market providers.
Thoughts?
| turboICE | 06-07-2005 02:45 PM |
A few issues to address:
Most shops won't adjust via non-OEM means.
Most shops won't adjust to non-OEM specs.
Quite a few shops will roll their eyes at you if you ask for specific specs even with in OEM specs.
Only thing you can do about the above is to find where people near you go. There are two or three shops across NNJ that will work with you if they know you. In all cases it is best to at a minimum advice them of the mods you have for aligning - and adjust the bottom camber to be matched while the plates are in the same position on each side.
The next item is one that is important to your tire life and/or the effectiveness of your suspension mods.
There is no proper way to quickly change from street to auto-x and back. Toe is set last when doing an alignment for a reason - caster and camber change toe. If you insist on going this route here are your alternatives:
Set toe for your street caster/camber and suffer toe penalties while auto-xing.
Set toe for your auto-x caster/camber and suffer tire wear on the street.
Pick a middle point between the two and suffer a little of each consequence.
If you set all toe and thrust to 0.0 there is no beneficial auto-x setting that is not streetable. Several sets of tires with 10,000+ miles have proven this at -3.0* camber in the front and -2.0* camber in the back. If toe and thrust are 0.0 and tire pressures are proper at auto-x and on the street then tire wear will be fine. At the very end of the tires' life some scalloping may develop but the tires are gone anyway and the scalloping is more likely from excessive heat cycles from tracking in my case but it is always after I have driven beyond the wear bars. If you believe that camber will cause some sort of mystical problem then get tires that you can reverse midway through thier life.
Same settings all seasons, all purposes - street, auto-x, track.
For any plates - check frequently that they have not shifted. The best way is to take nail polish and put it on the edge where the top plate meets the adjusting plate. If it moves the polish will crack making it easy to see.
Most shops won't adjust via non-OEM means.
Most shops won't adjust to non-OEM specs.
Quite a few shops will roll their eyes at you if you ask for specific specs even with in OEM specs.
Only thing you can do about the above is to find where people near you go. There are two or three shops across NNJ that will work with you if they know you. In all cases it is best to at a minimum advice them of the mods you have for aligning - and adjust the bottom camber to be matched while the plates are in the same position on each side.
The next item is one that is important to your tire life and/or the effectiveness of your suspension mods.
There is no proper way to quickly change from street to auto-x and back. Toe is set last when doing an alignment for a reason - caster and camber change toe. If you insist on going this route here are your alternatives:
Set toe for your street caster/camber and suffer toe penalties while auto-xing.
Set toe for your auto-x caster/camber and suffer tire wear on the street.
Pick a middle point between the two and suffer a little of each consequence.
If you set all toe and thrust to 0.0 there is no beneficial auto-x setting that is not streetable. Several sets of tires with 10,000+ miles have proven this at -3.0* camber in the front and -2.0* camber in the back. If toe and thrust are 0.0 and tire pressures are proper at auto-x and on the street then tire wear will be fine. At the very end of the tires' life some scalloping may develop but the tires are gone anyway and the scalloping is more likely from excessive heat cycles from tracking in my case but it is always after I have driven beyond the wear bars. If you believe that camber will cause some sort of mystical problem then get tires that you can reverse midway through thier life.
Same settings all seasons, all purposes - street, auto-x, track.
For any plates - check frequently that they have not shifted. The best way is to take nail polish and put it on the edge where the top plate meets the adjusting plate. If it moves the polish will crack making it easy to see.
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-07-2005 02:56 PM |
Thanks for the reply.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to make a compromise between street and auto-x/track.
I autocross the car weekly, and track 2-3x per year, but I also drive it daily 6 miles to work. I'm gonna shoot for this:
Front Camber -2.5 L R
Rear Camber -1.0 L R
Caster Max!
Toe 0 all around
Thrust 0
I have a local shop that will work with me on the alignment (but they charge $100+) .
I'm not sure if they even have a clue how the hell to set a camber plate.
Frankly, I dont even know how to set them properly :rolleyes:
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to make a compromise between street and auto-x/track.
I autocross the car weekly, and track 2-3x per year, but I also drive it daily 6 miles to work. I'm gonna shoot for this:
Front Camber -2.5 L R
Rear Camber -1.0 L R
Caster Max!
Toe 0 all around
Thrust 0
I have a local shop that will work with me on the alignment (but they charge $100+) .
I'm not sure if they even have a clue how the hell to set a camber plate.
Frankly, I dont even know how to set them properly :rolleyes:
| javid | 06-07-2005 03:31 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]A few issues to address:
Most shops won't adjust via non-OEM means.
Most shops won't adjust to non-OEM specs.
Quite a few shops will roll their eyes at you if you ask for specific specs even with in OEM specs.
Only thing you can do about the above is to find where people near you go. There are two or three shops across NNJ that will work with you if they know you. In all cases it is best to at a minimum advice them of the mods you have for aligning - and adjust the bottom camber to be matched while the plates are in the same position on each side.
The next item is one that is important to your tire life and/or the effectiveness of your suspension mods.
There is no proper way to quickly change from street to auto-x and back. Toe is set last when doing an alignment for a reason - caster and camber change toe. If you insist on going this route here are your alternatives:
Set toe for your street caster/camber and suffer toe penalties while auto-xing.
Set toe for your auto-x caster/camber and suffer tire wear on the street.
Pick a middle point between the two and suffer a little of each consequence.
If you set all toe and thrust to 0.0 there is no beneficial auto-x setting that is not streetable. Several sets of tires with 10,000+ miles have proven this at -3.0* camber in the front and -2.0* camber in the back. If toe and thrust are 0.0 and tire pressures are proper at auto-x and on the street then tire wear will be fine. At the very end of the tires' life some scalloping may develop but the tires are gone anyway and the scalloping is more likely from excessive heat cycles from tracking in my case but it is always after I have driven beyond the wear bars. If you believe that camber will cause some sort of mystical problem then get tires that you can reverse midway through thier life.
Same settings all seasons, all purposes - street, auto-x, track.
For any plates - check frequently that they have not shifted. The best way is to take nail polish and put it on the edge where the top plate meets the adjusting plate. If it moves the polish will crack making it easy to see.[/QUOTE]
Turbo, you have alot of good info above but I disagree with your claim that a compromise must be made. Just run -3 and toe out at events and -2 and a little or zero toe on the street. You just have to align to one and measure both settings on the rack to make sure you know whats going on....
works for me :alien:
Most shops won't adjust via non-OEM means.
Most shops won't adjust to non-OEM specs.
Quite a few shops will roll their eyes at you if you ask for specific specs even with in OEM specs.
Only thing you can do about the above is to find where people near you go. There are two or three shops across NNJ that will work with you if they know you. In all cases it is best to at a minimum advice them of the mods you have for aligning - and adjust the bottom camber to be matched while the plates are in the same position on each side.
The next item is one that is important to your tire life and/or the effectiveness of your suspension mods.
There is no proper way to quickly change from street to auto-x and back. Toe is set last when doing an alignment for a reason - caster and camber change toe. If you insist on going this route here are your alternatives:
Set toe for your street caster/camber and suffer toe penalties while auto-xing.
Set toe for your auto-x caster/camber and suffer tire wear on the street.
Pick a middle point between the two and suffer a little of each consequence.
If you set all toe and thrust to 0.0 there is no beneficial auto-x setting that is not streetable. Several sets of tires with 10,000+ miles have proven this at -3.0* camber in the front and -2.0* camber in the back. If toe and thrust are 0.0 and tire pressures are proper at auto-x and on the street then tire wear will be fine. At the very end of the tires' life some scalloping may develop but the tires are gone anyway and the scalloping is more likely from excessive heat cycles from tracking in my case but it is always after I have driven beyond the wear bars. If you believe that camber will cause some sort of mystical problem then get tires that you can reverse midway through thier life.
Same settings all seasons, all purposes - street, auto-x, track.
For any plates - check frequently that they have not shifted. The best way is to take nail polish and put it on the edge where the top plate meets the adjusting plate. If it moves the polish will crack making it easy to see.[/QUOTE]
Turbo, you have alot of good info above but I disagree with your claim that a compromise must be made. Just run -3 and toe out at events and -2 and a little or zero toe on the street. You just have to align to one and measure both settings on the rack to make sure you know whats going on....
works for me :alien:
| turboICE | 06-07-2005 04:35 PM |
javid, true enough if you are happy with the results of the toe that occurs at each camber setting then there would not be a compromise. To qualify that part of my statement for myself it would be a compromise since I want toe and thrust zero'd in all instances on my STi.
Matt, I don't think you will really be making a compromise if you use those settings for all uses. The difference between 2.5 and 3.0 camber will be less than the average auto-xer's own variability in driving. By the time that .5 camber difference would consistently affect your times - you won't be asking this board questions... ;) The improvement from 1.5 to 2.5 will be noticable and appreciable to you though.
BTW my settings were what I drove a 130 mile round trip commute on half my work days for 6 months, and each direction involved effectively a tarmac stage through Saw Mill Parkway.
Now one thing that extended usage on higher camber can effect, especially with continual spirited driving and sticky tires is possibly the bearings. Hard to say to what extent but with the STi at 28,000 miles, a dozen or so auto-x and 25 or so track days my front bearings are gone. (Well they were at 25,000 just need to change them.) All in all given the usage I really can't complain about the bearings which become a wear item just like brake pads (but cost less) when you track.
Matt, I don't think you will really be making a compromise if you use those settings for all uses. The difference between 2.5 and 3.0 camber will be less than the average auto-xer's own variability in driving. By the time that .5 camber difference would consistently affect your times - you won't be asking this board questions... ;) The improvement from 1.5 to 2.5 will be noticable and appreciable to you though.
BTW my settings were what I drove a 130 mile round trip commute on half my work days for 6 months, and each direction involved effectively a tarmac stage through Saw Mill Parkway.
Now one thing that extended usage on higher camber can effect, especially with continual spirited driving and sticky tires is possibly the bearings. Hard to say to what extent but with the STi at 28,000 miles, a dozen or so auto-x and 25 or so track days my front bearings are gone. (Well they were at 25,000 just need to change them.) All in all given the usage I really can't complain about the bearings which become a wear item just like brake pads (but cost less) when you track.
| makofoto | 06-08-2005 02:17 AM |
As I mentioned before ... a lot of the guys around here max out their front camber and set toe to around 3/16th total. They then reduce camber until toe is zero and mark this as their street setting. (This only works on cars that have their steering arms attached to the front of the hub ... like our Subies.) At the track they jack up the front ... slam the camber plates to the max. Afterwards just go back to the street setting.
Rear camber is set from -1 to -2 usually with just a bit of toe out ... 1/16th is very mild, 1/8th is more aggressive but you will suffer some tire wear ...
Rear adjustable lateral links (relatively inexpensive Whitelines) make it easy to change toe between street and track setting's, and change camber.
Helped a friend install some Noltecs this weekend ... besides having my own. Terrible install instructions that don't tell you which of the many possible orientations to use. Without making trimming modifications to the inner steel plate ... you have a choice of a lot of camber or a lot of caster. I will try to get a photo of what we thought was the best compromise.
The instructions note that for motorsports applications ... where one needs "extreme" positions ... one MUST trim the steel inner plate ... so that it doesn't hit the inner strut tower walls. I used a Plasma Cutter. Without such a tool ... you are going to be in for a lot of work with a grinder, etc.
Easiest thing is to use regular old camber plates ... switched left and right ... and turned 120 degrees so that the slot runs about 45 degrees back. Gives a lot of Caster and a decent amount of camber ... maybe -2.5. But with all of that caster ... you don't need as much camber.
The Tein ones in my hand have the slot nicely off-set so that you get a lot of caster ...
And repositioning is very positive. With my Noltecs, when I switch from my track to the street setting ... there is so much slop ... that I can end up almost a degree of camber off ... which gives me about around 1/8th inch of un-wanted toe. :-(
Rear camber is set from -1 to -2 usually with just a bit of toe out ... 1/16th is very mild, 1/8th is more aggressive but you will suffer some tire wear ...
Rear adjustable lateral links (relatively inexpensive Whitelines) make it easy to change toe between street and track setting's, and change camber.
Helped a friend install some Noltecs this weekend ... besides having my own. Terrible install instructions that don't tell you which of the many possible orientations to use. Without making trimming modifications to the inner steel plate ... you have a choice of a lot of camber or a lot of caster. I will try to get a photo of what we thought was the best compromise.
The instructions note that for motorsports applications ... where one needs "extreme" positions ... one MUST trim the steel inner plate ... so that it doesn't hit the inner strut tower walls. I used a Plasma Cutter. Without such a tool ... you are going to be in for a lot of work with a grinder, etc.
Easiest thing is to use regular old camber plates ... switched left and right ... and turned 120 degrees so that the slot runs about 45 degrees back. Gives a lot of Caster and a decent amount of camber ... maybe -2.5. But with all of that caster ... you don't need as much camber.
The Tein ones in my hand have the slot nicely off-set so that you get a lot of caster ...
And repositioning is very positive. With my Noltecs, when I switch from my track to the street setting ... there is so much slop ... that I can end up almost a degree of camber off ... which gives me about around 1/8th inch of un-wanted toe. :-(
| turboICE | 06-08-2005 02:24 AM |
Also found out recently on a friends car that WRX/STi front camber plates will provide the camber/caster angle that you are talking about on GC RS's. I imagine RS ones put on WRX/STi will do the same.
| makofoto | 06-08-2005 02:43 AM |
[IMG]http://images9.fotki.com/v173/photos/4/43793/836092/TeinNormalLeft-vi.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images9.fotki.com/v175/photos/4/43793/836092/TeinSwapped2Right-vi.jpg[/IMG]
"Instant" Camber AND Caster ... :D
TEIN's are nicely offset for good camber/caster ... see dirt ring. I don't think all Camber plates are off-set like this ...
[IMG]http://images9.fotki.com/v175/photos/4/43793/836092/TeinSwapped2Right-vi.jpg[/IMG]
"Instant" Camber AND Caster ... :D
TEIN's are nicely offset for good camber/caster ... see dirt ring. I don't think all Camber plates are off-set like this ...
| turboICE | 06-08-2005 02:51 AM |
Yeah GD plates in a GC do the same thing we found out this weekend.
| SPOOLN | 06-08-2005 10:17 AM |
makofoto is wise beyond his years
| HoRo1 | 06-08-2005 11:54 AM |
Most shops have NO CLUE what to do with camber plates - trust me. They'll start going at it with a hammer - don't laugh, they will. You must watch the guy aligning the car to make sure he doesn't abuse it.
| 1984 | 06-08-2005 01:37 PM |
^^^ or a prybar :rolleyes: . Good thing I was standing nearby.
| funsti | 06-08-2005 11:17 PM |
So far I've had good experience with my local 'Tire Kingdom'. You have to pay for a 'performance' alignment in order to take the extra time it takes to mess around with multiple profiles and settings outside of factory tolerances.
They were very cool and let me get away with breaking the rules about 'no customers in the garage' (although officially.. I was never in there, lol) so I could come in and adjust the camber plates. I got a printout for my street settings and another printout for my race settings.
Speaking of plate orientation I just went by some photos I saw posted in the boards. I'm at 6.8 degrees of caster and -2.1 degrees of camber with my un-modified Noltec front plates adjusted to their inner-rear corners. The front wheels grip so much better when navigating corners... it's just amazing. I still haven't even installed the offset bushings that will give me an extra 0.5 degrees of caster!
They were very cool and let me get away with breaking the rules about 'no customers in the garage' (although officially.. I was never in there, lol) so I could come in and adjust the camber plates. I got a printout for my street settings and another printout for my race settings.
Speaking of plate orientation I just went by some photos I saw posted in the boards. I'm at 6.8 degrees of caster and -2.1 degrees of camber with my un-modified Noltec front plates adjusted to their inner-rear corners. The front wheels grip so much better when navigating corners... it's just amazing. I still haven't even installed the offset bushings that will give me an extra 0.5 degrees of caster!
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-09-2005 05:36 PM |
Oy vey. While accomodating, I doubt my local shop will have a clue how to work a camber plate. I'm gonna have to find someone local for an in person tutorial so I can teach them.
| PaulC | 06-09-2005 05:47 PM |
I would recommend taking the time to find a shop that does race alignments. They are few and far between, and cost a lot of money, but you get what you pay for.
I've had multiple $100 alignments where they said they would match my specs and then "couldn't" even though it was evident they didn't touch the camber plates. You may have some luck if you "babysit" the alignment guy, but that's also difficult to pull off and you would have to know how to use the plates yourself in that case. ;)
I've had multiple $100 alignments where they said they would match my specs and then "couldn't" even though it was evident they didn't touch the camber plates. You may have some luck if you "babysit" the alignment guy, but that's also difficult to pull off and you would have to know how to use the plates yourself in that case. ;)
| WickedSTI | 06-09-2005 07:18 PM |
When you ask the person at the shop you chose if they are ok with camber plates and they give you a funny look or ask what are those leave.Even guys with older Ford 4+4 use plates along with lots of outher cars and trucks.Brad
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-13-2005 06:13 PM |
First, thanks for the advice everyone!
I took a drive over during lunch to the two shops with Hunter machines in town. Both were barely willing to work with me. This means: I'm not allowed in the shop, and they would "try their best" :rolleyes: to get the specs. They wern't willing to play with the plates.
[B]Can I preset the plates so that the shop does not have to touch them?[/B]
If so, I think based on this thread that my approach will be this:
1. Cusco/Tein camber plates up front switched/ rotated as Makofoto suggested.
2. Rear Camber bolts installed
3. [I]Max the front camber plates before I go in.[/I] Have them use the regular "stock" camber bolts to max the camber. Have them simply set the toe to 0, and if they can max caster, to do so. Tell them [B]NOT [/B]to touch the plates.
4. Have them use the rear camber bolts to shoot for negative 1.5-2.0 with zero toe.
This way, they won't even have to touch the camber plates.
I apologize for breaking this subject down to moronic levels of stupidity, but I have nothing to work with as far as the alignment shops- the car has to be prepped to a level where they don't have to touch the camber plates.
Will this work?
I took a drive over during lunch to the two shops with Hunter machines in town. Both were barely willing to work with me. This means: I'm not allowed in the shop, and they would "try their best" :rolleyes: to get the specs. They wern't willing to play with the plates.
[B]Can I preset the plates so that the shop does not have to touch them?[/B]
If so, I think based on this thread that my approach will be this:
1. Cusco/Tein camber plates up front switched/ rotated as Makofoto suggested.
2. Rear Camber bolts installed
3. [I]Max the front camber plates before I go in.[/I] Have them use the regular "stock" camber bolts to max the camber. Have them simply set the toe to 0, and if they can max caster, to do so. Tell them [B]NOT [/B]to touch the plates.
4. Have them use the rear camber bolts to shoot for negative 1.5-2.0 with zero toe.
This way, they won't even have to touch the camber plates.
I apologize for breaking this subject down to moronic levels of stupidity, but I have nothing to work with as far as the alignment shops- the car has to be prepped to a level where they don't have to touch the camber plates.
Will this work?
| makofoto | 06-13-2005 09:13 PM |
What is your goal ...
Do you want an aggressive street setting that you can also use for Auto Cross ? Sorry if you already mentioned this ... it's not in your original message ...
It's a shame not to use the switched/rotated plates for Max Camber and Caster for your best AX set up ...
I would say max the camber/caster plates, ie. full in and back ... and have the alignment shop give you at least 1/8th inch total toe out. Make sure your steering is straight when going down a flat (no crown) road after your alignment, or take it back. Have them Max out the camber bolts.
But then YOU must must find your zero toe position for the street.
You jack up the front of the car ... move the strut from the Max position about a good 1/4 inch out. Drop the car ... roll it back and forth ... place to straight boards against the wheels/tires ... 2' shelf boards are perfect ... and with a metal tape measure, measure the distance from the front edge of the board and the rear of the board. You want them equal for the street, Zero toe. You might have to adjust the toe a couple of times to make it perfect. You might want it to be very slightly Toe-In, ie. the rear of the board a 32nds wider then the front. This can help even out your AX tire wear.
Mark this position as your Street Setting.
Have them set the rear to 1/16th Toe Out and ... if your AX courses are tight ... -1.3 camber. Anyone remember what OEM rear camber is w/o camber bolts ?
If you are going to also Track this car ... you will want a lot more rear neg. camber.
If you don't want to bother with changing your front settings ... I guess I would go with -2.5 and 1/16th Toe Out. Max out your camber/caster plate so you have your max Caster ... and see if they can reduce your Camber to -2.5 with the camber bolts?
Do you want an aggressive street setting that you can also use for Auto Cross ? Sorry if you already mentioned this ... it's not in your original message ...
It's a shame not to use the switched/rotated plates for Max Camber and Caster for your best AX set up ...
I would say max the camber/caster plates, ie. full in and back ... and have the alignment shop give you at least 1/8th inch total toe out. Make sure your steering is straight when going down a flat (no crown) road after your alignment, or take it back. Have them Max out the camber bolts.
But then YOU must must find your zero toe position for the street.
You jack up the front of the car ... move the strut from the Max position about a good 1/4 inch out. Drop the car ... roll it back and forth ... place to straight boards against the wheels/tires ... 2' shelf boards are perfect ... and with a metal tape measure, measure the distance from the front edge of the board and the rear of the board. You want them equal for the street, Zero toe. You might have to adjust the toe a couple of times to make it perfect. You might want it to be very slightly Toe-In, ie. the rear of the board a 32nds wider then the front. This can help even out your AX tire wear.
Mark this position as your Street Setting.
Have them set the rear to 1/16th Toe Out and ... if your AX courses are tight ... -1.3 camber. Anyone remember what OEM rear camber is w/o camber bolts ?
If you are going to also Track this car ... you will want a lot more rear neg. camber.
If you don't want to bother with changing your front settings ... I guess I would go with -2.5 and 1/16th Toe Out. Max out your camber/caster plate so you have your max Caster ... and see if they can reduce your Camber to -2.5 with the camber bolts?
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-14-2005 05:24 PM |
Mako, I wish you lived around here on the east coast. :)
I am looking for a very agressive street/autocross alignment setting. It seems that it would be best to be able to alter my alignment at will, so I will build in that capability, although I don't really want it now.
In a nutshell, I'm looking to leave the settings like this :)
R L
Front Camber -2.5 -2.5
Rear Camber -1.5 -1.5
Caster MAX!
Toe: 0 to 1/8
Thrust 0
Streetable, with a big difference in feel. I do track the car, but rarely (1-2x per year) but I autocross every other weekend. I'm leaning back to getting the Noltec Race plates, and hope for the best.
I am looking for a very agressive street/autocross alignment setting. It seems that it would be best to be able to alter my alignment at will, so I will build in that capability, although I don't really want it now.
In a nutshell, I'm looking to leave the settings like this :)
R L
Front Camber -2.5 -2.5
Rear Camber -1.5 -1.5
Caster MAX!
Toe: 0 to 1/8
Thrust 0
Streetable, with a big difference in feel. I do track the car, but rarely (1-2x per year) but I autocross every other weekend. I'm leaning back to getting the Noltec Race plates, and hope for the best.
| Scooby Freak | 06-15-2005 08:47 AM |
[QUOTE=MattNJ2.8]I took a drive over during lunch to the two shops with Hunter machines in town. Both were barely willing to work with me. This means: I'm not allowed in the shop, and they would "try their best" :rolleyes: to get the specs. They wern't willing to play with the plates.[/QUOTE]
I would keep searching for a better shop. A race-oriented shop, or at least a tech that is willing to work with you. I've been getting my alignments at a VW dealer, because the guy that works there is also an autocrosser & understands what I want. Ask around at your next race to figure out where everybody else is going.
The only ones I can think of right now are Philly SCCA sponsors (and in PA, so probably a little too far for you).
[url]http://www.phoenixperformance.net/[/url] in Palm, PA.
[url]http://www.cseauto.com/[/url] Chassis Suspension & Engine in Oreland, PA.
And I like your specs. :devil: That's about where mine is. An alignment that will make RE-92's feel good. ;)
I would keep searching for a better shop. A race-oriented shop, or at least a tech that is willing to work with you. I've been getting my alignments at a VW dealer, because the guy that works there is also an autocrosser & understands what I want. Ask around at your next race to figure out where everybody else is going.
The only ones I can think of right now are Philly SCCA sponsors (and in PA, so probably a little too far for you).
[url]http://www.phoenixperformance.net/[/url] in Palm, PA.
[url]http://www.cseauto.com/[/url] Chassis Suspension & Engine in Oreland, PA.
And I like your specs. :devil: That's about where mine is. An alignment that will make RE-92's feel good. ;)
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-15-2005 09:06 AM |
Scoobyfreak, do you have a white '04? If so, I think we've met at an M-Club event a few weeks ago. I was the guy with the '04 who's front swaybar endlinks and bearings popped out :rolleyes: And I had a little "monster garage" session in the parking lot of the Meadowlands fixing it. :mad:
| Scooby Freak | 06-15-2005 09:18 AM |
[QUOTE=MattNJ2.8]Scoobyfreak, do you have a white '04? If so, I think we've met at an M-Club event a few weeks ago. I was the guy with the '04 who's front swaybar endlinks and bearings popped out :rolleyes: And I had a little "monster garage" session in the parking lot of the Meadowlands fixing it. :mad:[/QUOTE]Yep, that was me. Have those endlinks caused any other problems?
-jeff
-jeff
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-15-2005 04:33 PM |
No problems yet. I took the whole thing apart when I got home, and reassambled it with larger, stronger washers. It's been better since then.
I really like your suspension setup. Refresh my memory, what coilovers are you running?
I really like your suspension setup. Refresh my memory, what coilovers are you running?
| makofoto | 06-15-2005 05:02 PM |
Nothing will make 92's feel good! :-)
Decent tires BEFORE anything else ...
Decent tires BEFORE anything else ...
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-15-2005 08:45 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]Nothing will make 92's feel good! :-)
Decent tires BEFORE anything else ...[/QUOTE]
I went back to daily driving with my RE92s. I will go on record saying for commuting, these tires are very good...quiet, smooth, and I keep low PSI for comfort.
That being said, they are among the worst tires on earth for grip- dangerously so in the wet. It's easy as pie to light up all four anytime :devil:
I autocross on a set of RE070s I picked up for $300 with 100 miles on them.
Decent tires BEFORE anything else ...[/QUOTE]
I went back to daily driving with my RE92s. I will go on record saying for commuting, these tires are very good...quiet, smooth, and I keep low PSI for comfort.
That being said, they are among the worst tires on earth for grip- dangerously so in the wet. It's easy as pie to light up all four anytime :devil:
I autocross on a set of RE070s I picked up for $300 with 100 miles on them.
| makofoto | 06-15-2005 09:47 PM |
I forgot, I don't use my WRX for commuting. :-)
Putting in Powerflex black "no give at all" racing bushings in my front A arms tomorrow ... I might need to go back to 92's for getting to the track ... because my car is going to be punishing me. :-(
Putting in Powerflex black "no give at all" racing bushings in my front A arms tomorrow ... I might need to go back to 92's for getting to the track ... because my car is going to be punishing me. :-(
| Scooby Freak | 06-15-2005 10:50 PM |
My car is on Zeal V6 coilovers w/ 8k & 10k springs. I also use RE92's daily, because they are cheap & comfortable, but I have Azenis for the autocross.
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-15-2005 11:26 PM |
Are you in Springfield, Delaware County? I grew up in Villanova... went to Haverford.
| Scooby Freak | 06-16-2005 07:18 AM |
[QUOTE=MattNJ2.8]Are you in Springfield, Delaware County? I grew up in Villanova... went to Haverford.[/QUOTE]
Yep, Springfield High School, Class of '97.
Yep, Springfield High School, Class of '97.
| BriDrive | 06-16-2005 10:36 AM |
Matt,
I (we)(B&S Motorsports) began learning, designing and implementing our own custom alignment shop in my garage in Jacksonville, Fl due to the FACT that NO commercial place here was interested in any alignment other than OEM spec. The cost was too high and the folks just didn't understand the particular geometry and issues important to us in our simple little world of auto-xing Subarus.
Its quite possible to get good compromise street/race alignment settings.
Both Scott and I have near identical setups: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760087&highlight=alignment[/url]
Too bad you weren't closer to Florida as I would happily get you setup with what you need.
Good Luck! BriDrive
I (we)(B&S Motorsports) began learning, designing and implementing our own custom alignment shop in my garage in Jacksonville, Fl due to the FACT that NO commercial place here was interested in any alignment other than OEM spec. The cost was too high and the folks just didn't understand the particular geometry and issues important to us in our simple little world of auto-xing Subarus.
Its quite possible to get good compromise street/race alignment settings.
Both Scott and I have near identical setups: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760087&highlight=alignment[/url]
Too bad you weren't closer to Florida as I would happily get you setup with what you need.
Good Luck! BriDrive
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-16-2005 09:58 PM |
Damn, I wish I were local to you. I can't seem to be able to get a reasonable alignment. Just have to suck it up for now :mad:
Scoobyfreak, I liked your "mini-trailer" setup. Could you point me to where you picked it up so I could check it out?
Scoobyfreak, I liked your "mini-trailer" setup. Could you point me to where you picked it up so I could check it out?
| Scooby Freak | 06-17-2005 07:35 AM |
[QUOTE=MattNJ2.8]Scoobyfreak, I liked your "mini-trailer" setup. Could you point me to where you picked it up so I could check it out?[/QUOTE]
I have a Drawtite hitch, Harbor Freight (4 x 3 1/3', the smallest cheapest one they sell) Trailer w/ the bigger 12" wheels. They are supposed to be better on the bearings than the 8" wheels. And the toolbox came from Walmart, then I made a bracket to secure the wheels.
[URL=http://www.autoxphotos.com/gallery/Other%20Regions%2FToledo%20National%20Tour%206%2D2005%2FDSCF2041%2EJPG]http://www.autoxphotos.com/gallery/Other%20Regions%2FToledo%20National%20Tour%206%2D2005%2FDSCF2041%2EJPG[/URL]
I keep wondering how my car will feel with more caster. Right before I go to the Alignment shop next time, I'll rotate my camber plates. Hopefully I won't lose too much static camber (it's at -2.5 maxed out w/ them in the regular orientation.)
I have a Drawtite hitch, Harbor Freight (4 x 3 1/3', the smallest cheapest one they sell) Trailer w/ the bigger 12" wheels. They are supposed to be better on the bearings than the 8" wheels. And the toolbox came from Walmart, then I made a bracket to secure the wheels.
[URL=http://www.autoxphotos.com/gallery/Other%20Regions%2FToledo%20National%20Tour%206%2D2005%2FDSCF2041%2EJPG]http://www.autoxphotos.com/gallery/Other%20Regions%2FToledo%20National%20Tour%206%2D2005%2FDSCF2041%2EJPG[/URL]
I keep wondering how my car will feel with more caster. Right before I go to the Alignment shop next time, I'll rotate my camber plates. Hopefully I won't lose too much static camber (it's at -2.5 maxed out w/ them in the regular orientation.)
| ratt_finkel | 06-17-2005 09:03 AM |
I'm not sure where in Central Jersey you live. But from Trenton, I found several "racing shops". Good luck
[url]http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypResults.py?Pyt=Typ&city=Trenton&state=NJ&uzip=08609&country=us&msa=8480&cs=4&ed=mcpyna1o2Tz5toWxdG9eq7_1Xr.sacBs7i3iulxjxRJ4&tab=B2C&stx=7843870&stp=y&desc=Racing&doprox=1&sorttype=distance&beyond=1&stat=ClkByndLower[/url]
Also, you may want to browse other boards and see where people in your region are getting alignments.
[url]http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypResults.py?Pyt=Typ&city=Trenton&state=NJ&uzip=08609&country=us&msa=8480&cs=4&ed=mcpyna1o2Tz5toWxdG9eq7_1Xr.sacBs7i3iulxjxRJ4&tab=B2C&stx=7843870&stp=y&desc=Racing&doprox=1&sorttype=distance&beyond=1&stat=ClkByndLower[/url]
Also, you may want to browse other boards and see where people in your region are getting alignments.
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