| Sean | 06-17-2003 01:57 AM |
Don't worry, the magic tape will save him...
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I wonder if cars bounce off the magic tape like in Colin McRae 2 and Rallisport Challenge?
[url=http://www.lastditchracing.net/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/Scrapbook/Gallery/WTLW/2003_LDR_STPR_MagicTape.jpg[/img][/url]
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| Kostamojen | 06-17-2003 02:59 AM |
LMAO!!!
| ITWRX4ME | 06-17-2003 07:06 AM |
Maybe it's a rubberband so if a car comes toward him, all he has to do is lift his feet. Doyng!
| STX_REX | 06-17-2003 08:10 AM |
What do you mean "I have to leave" . I wasn't doing anything unsafe, I was inside the barrier tape.
And people wonder why Rally drivers arent all that fond of spectators
And people wonder why Rally drivers arent all that fond of spectators
| dch | 06-17-2003 07:18 PM |
It looks like he's a good candidate for what I like to refer to as a "Meteor Shower". Let's see, fast left-hander, rotation started, loose gravel on top- Yep! We're GO, Houston! :D
-Doug
-Doug
| rallykeith | 06-17-2003 07:44 PM |
Un freakin real! I'm glad my head was burried in the course notes otherwise I might have cared.
My question is where was the marshal that should have been working that intersection?
Keith
My question is where was the marshal that should have been working that intersection?
Keith
| Jaxx | 06-17-2003 08:04 PM |
wow i can't repeat what i said outloud, when i saw that...
| johnfelstead | 06-17-2003 08:41 PM |
the guy is a mile off the road, i dont see the problem. :confused:
couple of my pics from the Acropolis rally.
[img]http://www.johnfelstead.co.uk/rally/wrc/acropolis_2003/images/DCP05921.JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.johnfelstead.co.uk/rally/wrc/acropolis_2003/images/DCP05788.JPG[/img]
couple of my pics from the Acropolis rally.
[img]http://www.johnfelstead.co.uk/rally/wrc/acropolis_2003/images/DCP05921.JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.johnfelstead.co.uk/rally/wrc/acropolis_2003/images/DCP05788.JPG[/img]
| OnTheGas | 06-17-2003 09:49 PM |
Absolutely No Viewing From Road Shoulders In The U.S.
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]the guy is a mile off the road, i dont see the problem. :confused: [/B][/QUOTE]Funny... I was kinda thinkin' the same thing. Maybe us americans are just big wussies! :confused:
[B]the guy is a mile off the road, i dont see the problem. :confused: [/B][/QUOTE]Funny... I was kinda thinkin' the same thing. Maybe us americans are just big wussies! :confused:
| Mopho | 06-17-2003 11:42 PM |
John, Not even close! :D
[IMG]http://www.morgansegal.com/rally/images/04.jpg[/IMG]
Taken with a 24mm lens, I have closer but this one was already linkable
[IMG]http://www.morgansegal.com/rally/images/04.jpg[/IMG]
Taken with a 24mm lens, I have closer but this one was already linkable
| Sean | 06-18-2003 12:46 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]the guy is a mile off the road, i dont see the problem. :confused:[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't have a problem with spectators and photographers trekking miles into the woods and sitting inches from the road in what they perceive to be a safe spot. I do, however, have a problem with spectators and photographers intentionally stretching and modifying magic tape to get a better view.
If you're going to risk your life to get that great photo, don't stretch/move the magic tape 20 feet closer to the road just so you can use the excuse, "but I'm still standing [b]behind[/b] it!" :lol:
Just to prove that I'm not some stick in the mud...but we use trees for protection instead of magic tape. :D
[img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/Scrapbook/Gallery/20020726-01-MFPR/66_G.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/Scrapbook/Gallery/20020601-01-STPR/DSC03489.sized.jpg[/img]
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[B]the guy is a mile off the road, i dont see the problem. :confused:[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't have a problem with spectators and photographers trekking miles into the woods and sitting inches from the road in what they perceive to be a safe spot. I do, however, have a problem with spectators and photographers intentionally stretching and modifying magic tape to get a better view.
If you're going to risk your life to get that great photo, don't stretch/move the magic tape 20 feet closer to the road just so you can use the excuse, "but I'm still standing [b]behind[/b] it!" :lol:
Just to prove that I'm not some stick in the mud...but we use trees for protection instead of magic tape. :D
[img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/Scrapbook/Gallery/20020726-01-MFPR/66_G.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/Scrapbook/Gallery/20020601-01-STPR/DSC03489.sized.jpg[/img]
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| jprowland | 06-18-2003 05:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mopho [/i]
[B]Taken with a 24mm lens, I have closer but this one was already linkable [/B][/QUOTE]
24mm...you were, what, 3 inches off the bumper? I can't even get that close to anything with a 28mm.
Better you than me... :) I'll stay INSIDE the car with the big steel cage, thank you very much.
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, #896 Audi 4000 Quattro turbo, Open
Visit my boring web page: [url]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland[/url]
[B]Taken with a 24mm lens, I have closer but this one was already linkable [/B][/QUOTE]
24mm...you were, what, 3 inches off the bumper? I can't even get that close to anything with a 28mm.
Better you than me... :) I'll stay INSIDE the car with the big steel cage, thank you very much.
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, #896 Audi 4000 Quattro turbo, Open
Visit my boring web page: [url]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland[/url]
| ITWRX4ME | 06-18-2003 08:15 AM |
Hey, whatever floats your boat. I don't see a problem with anyone standing next or even in the road. If you're willing to risk it, more power to ya. Just make sure your surviving family members are well aware and accepting of your need to get squashed.
| Mopho | 06-18-2003 09:54 AM |
It was a pretty lowspeed corner in a shakedown stage, Paul was only driving maybe 7/10ths and there was a tree to my right (though not big enough to stop a car, it kept people from cutting the corner) I have taken some risks, but for the most part I try to stay safe as I can. even though it is my risk, I would not want to put a driver through the horror of an accident with a person. That is one of my worst fears of even driving on public roads, hitting a pedestrian, it would be hard to live with oneself
| dmitrik4 | 06-18-2003 12:16 PM |
i agree. stand close to the road if you want, just be aware that you are assuming the responsibility...the difference btw the usa and europe (or the rest of the world) is that in this country, event organizers constantly have "lawsuit" in the back of their minds. if that guy were to get hit, i guarantee he would be suing as soon as he could. and he would probably win, sadly. people are much more accountable in other countries, it seems. many americans ust want a cheap excuse for a big payday, and too many other people are willing to give it to them.
god help the plaintiff if i'm ever on the jury for a frivolous lawsuit case: "the jury awards you...the defendant's legal bill." case closed.
god help the plaintiff if i'm ever on the jury for a frivolous lawsuit case: "the jury awards you...the defendant's legal bill." case closed.
| Subie Gal | 06-18-2003 12:41 PM |
what i love most is that these morons think they can dodge the cars if something goes amiss...
they are dead wrong. literally.
spectate safely.... use your noggin...
dont me a moron like this winner seen here....
trust me, you cannot dodge a fast moving rally car...
no matter what you think.... it all happens very very fast.
Jamie
they are dead wrong. literally.
spectate safely.... use your noggin...
dont me a moron like this winner seen here....
trust me, you cannot dodge a fast moving rally car...
no matter what you think.... it all happens very very fast.
Jamie
| Rovah | 06-18-2003 12:48 PM |
BTW, that's from our STPR 2003 video available on our site at [url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
That corner was a fast corner, but not a dangerous one. That said, the guy shouldn't have stretched the tape just to say he was still behind it. That's idiotic.
Cheers! John
That corner was a fast corner, but not a dangerous one. That said, the guy shouldn't have stretched the tape just to say he was still behind it. That's idiotic.
Cheers! John
| dch | 06-18-2003 01:34 PM |
I personally think if I want to stand somewhere and spectate, it's my life and I know the risks going in. However, if I was injured or killed you can bet the phone would be ringing off the hook at my next of kin's with attorneys fighting for the chance to soak everyone involved for millions of dollars, with a modest 50% fee of course. Even if I had told my family "don't ever do that", the lure of a few million bucks might prove to be too much to resist. Given the fact that a spectator incident at STPR would have likely cancelled all SCCA rally activity indefinitely, I can see where I would abandon my "It's my life and I'll take my own chances" position and adopt an "If that idiot gets killed nobody will be able to rally here any more" attitude. So I guess I think it's OK where he's standing and I think it sucks. Heh. How's that for deterministic?
-Doug
-Doug
| rallynutdon | 06-18-2003 01:44 PM |
Rovah, You and some others may get upset with me. But here goes. I DID NOT see anything close to this in my running of STPR 2003. Was this not dangerous enough to stop and throw the red cross????????? Don't know what I would have done (I still don't agree with the SCCA decision to make us cops) because usually these things happen so fast that it's tough to make that call. Did you and Dave comtemplate throwing the red cross for this one?
| Rovah | 06-18-2003 04:10 PM |
Don,
Good point. I actually didn't perceive this guy on the stage. I think I saw the flash. I saw it in the video when I was editing.
I DIDN'T include it to provoke debate, but I think the discussion is good.
If I had perceived this guy, would I have thrown the red cross? Perhaps. I could use his own twisted logic and tell myself he's behind the tape.
On the other hand, if I threw the cross, it would be quite a ways past that left hander before I could stop(that was a very fast section). My co-driver would have had to run back up the hot stage with a triangle to put it BEFORE the place where that guy is. Dangerous scenario both ways.
I wonder if anyone from the SCCA will see that picture?
Good discussion.
Cheers! John
Good point. I actually didn't perceive this guy on the stage. I think I saw the flash. I saw it in the video when I was editing.
I DIDN'T include it to provoke debate, but I think the discussion is good.
If I had perceived this guy, would I have thrown the red cross? Perhaps. I could use his own twisted logic and tell myself he's behind the tape.
On the other hand, if I threw the cross, it would be quite a ways past that left hander before I could stop(that was a very fast section). My co-driver would have had to run back up the hot stage with a triangle to put it BEFORE the place where that guy is. Dangerous scenario both ways.
I wonder if anyone from the SCCA will see that picture?
Good discussion.
Cheers! John
| rallynutdon | 06-18-2003 10:29 PM |
That's what I figured. Don't know what I would have done. All I know is it happens so fast that it's not easily recognizable that it's actually happening if it's not right on the road directly in front of you or directly related to your driving/car control. Do you know if Dave saw it? Was his head in the notes that he probably wouldn't have really noticed it?
| Rovah | 06-19-2003 09:32 AM |
Dave sits very low in the car now, and with the stage notes, he's busy all the time, with very little time to look up. I'll check with him and have him post here.
Cheers! John
Cheers! John
| dch | 06-19-2003 09:58 AM |
I probably wouldn't have thrown a red cross for this guy. I resolved that unless someone made me alter my line or slow in order to avoid them, I'd ignore 'em. If the navvies weren't so busy with the notes, I'd suggest giving them "Spectator Suppression Weapons" (rapid fire paintball guns) to give people a better reason than gravel spray and flying rocks to stay back a bit! :devil:
Cheers,
-Doug
Cheers,
-Doug
| Sean | 06-19-2003 10:09 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rovah [/i]
[B]Dave sits very low in the car now, and with the stage notes, he's busy all the time, with very little time to look up. I'll check with him and have him post here.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rallykeith [/i]
[B]Un freakin real! I'm glad my head was burried in the course notes otherwise I might have cared.
My question is where was the marshal that should have been working that intersection?[/B][/QUOTE]
:D Exactly! Again, I don't mind spectators getting close to the road. That's what rally is all about. Like I said, my problem is this guy stretching the magic tape to get closer and still claim that he's "safe behind the tape". Getting hit on the side of the road makes it your fault. Getting hit while standing behind magic that's been stretched into the road makes it the SCCA's fault.
If I saw onboard of a photographer in the middle of the woods standing inches from the road nowhere near a spectator area I never would have given it a second thought. It's just the principle of this particular situation that gave me a chuckle. :lol:
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[B]Dave sits very low in the car now, and with the stage notes, he's busy all the time, with very little time to look up. I'll check with him and have him post here.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rallykeith [/i]
[B]Un freakin real! I'm glad my head was burried in the course notes otherwise I might have cared.
My question is where was the marshal that should have been working that intersection?[/B][/QUOTE]
:D Exactly! Again, I don't mind spectators getting close to the road. That's what rally is all about. Like I said, my problem is this guy stretching the magic tape to get closer and still claim that he's "safe behind the tape". Getting hit on the side of the road makes it your fault. Getting hit while standing behind magic that's been stretched into the road makes it the SCCA's fault.
If I saw onboard of a photographer in the middle of the woods standing inches from the road nowhere near a spectator area I never would have given it a second thought. It's just the principle of this particular situation that gave me a chuckle. :lol:
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| RB5 Clone | 06-19-2003 10:19 AM |
Saved By Magic Tape
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Thanks for dragging me into this, guys! ;-)
I didn't remember this guy specifically until seeing the pic. I vaguely remember him stretching the tape, but not being worried about him 'cause we were on line and paying serious attention to what was way down the road.
So, my answer to "throw red cross at him?" question is NO. Rally crews are processing so many judgement calls at such high speed...there ya go.
I also remember several other knots of spectators out in the woods, kept well back in the trees by ubiquitous yello tapes. No worries whatsoever about them. My take in general re spectators at STPR is that I was amazed at how well they behaved.
I also remember REAL problems with spectators in the woods at Canadian rallies. Very Euro in this way, esp in Quebec where they seem to favor a kind of "running the bulls" dance with danger. At Charlevoix, you'd have 10,000 plus people scattered on a 10-km forest stage, and drivers reported some very scary moments (including a WRX clipping two of them w/o major injury, thankfully).. At Rallye de Quebec, there were fewer spectators, and they were usually standing on top of giant snowbanks so it wasn't such a fright. Still, on the in-town stages there were so many fans you could hear them cheering even over engine noise and the announcer hollering in French.
Bottom line: we need spectators at rallies. We need a fan base to support the sport, both from a grass-roots and marketing/sponsorship standpoint. In the US, this now means more organizer control of spectators than they've been accustomed to. We all don't have to like it, we just have to deal with it.
Dave G.
I didn't remember this guy specifically until seeing the pic. I vaguely remember him stretching the tape, but not being worried about him 'cause we were on line and paying serious attention to what was way down the road.
So, my answer to "throw red cross at him?" question is NO. Rally crews are processing so many judgement calls at such high speed...there ya go.
I also remember several other knots of spectators out in the woods, kept well back in the trees by ubiquitous yello tapes. No worries whatsoever about them. My take in general re spectators at STPR is that I was amazed at how well they behaved.
I also remember REAL problems with spectators in the woods at Canadian rallies. Very Euro in this way, esp in Quebec where they seem to favor a kind of "running the bulls" dance with danger. At Charlevoix, you'd have 10,000 plus people scattered on a 10-km forest stage, and drivers reported some very scary moments (including a WRX clipping two of them w/o major injury, thankfully).. At Rallye de Quebec, there were fewer spectators, and they were usually standing on top of giant snowbanks so it wasn't such a fright. Still, on the in-town stages there were so many fans you could hear them cheering even over engine noise and the announcer hollering in French.
Bottom line: we need spectators at rallies. We need a fan base to support the sport, both from a grass-roots and marketing/sponsorship standpoint. In the US, this now means more organizer control of spectators than they've been accustomed to. We all don't have to like it, we just have to deal with it.
Dave G.
| Jaxx | 06-19-2003 11:24 AM |
was he in danger? probbaly not
was he pushing the limits of what some stewart thought was safe? yes
the proublem is that too many idiot SUV drivers/soccer moms push the limits eventualy some idiot like this will get himself killed or worse injured (alive and sueing) and rallying in america will be over due to the high liability issues ...this is the tragity
was he pushing the limits of what some stewart thought was safe? yes
the proublem is that too many idiot SUV drivers/soccer moms push the limits eventualy some idiot like this will get himself killed or worse injured (alive and sueing) and rallying in america will be over due to the high liability issues ...this is the tragity
| rallynutdon | 06-19-2003 11:46 AM |
Re: Saved By Magic Tape
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RB5 Clone [/i]
[B]Thanks for dragging me into this, guys! ;-)
Come on. You know you love being dragged screaming and yelling all the way :devil: Thanks for your input. I agree with all you, was just curious of others thoughts. I think SCCA may have differed in their view (of course they wern't out there at 10/10th at ohmygod MPH :D ).
[B]Thanks for dragging me into this, guys! ;-)
Come on. You know you love being dragged screaming and yelling all the way :devil: Thanks for your input. I agree with all you, was just curious of others thoughts. I think SCCA may have differed in their view (of course they wern't out there at 10/10th at ohmygod MPH :D ).
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