| HomerJay | 01-23-2006 07:46 PM |
I'm going to watch Nascar in 2007
�
�
No, not really, but Toyota will be in Nascar in 2007. I probably won't watch, but I hope Toyota beats the snot out of the competition and makes Nascar dry up and shrivel away. :D
Toyota may have pulled the plug on its IRL IndyCar programme, but the Japanese car giant today confirmed that they will be entering the NASCAR Nextel Cup and Busch Series in 2007 with a car based on the Camry model.
The expansion will follow three years of Toyota competing in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series, and will result in all three of NASCAR's national series having four manufacturers competing, as Toyota will join Chevrolet, Dodge and Ford.
"NASCAR welcomes Toyota to the greatest auto racing in the world," said NASCAR Chairman and CEO Brian France, who made the announcement on Monday at NASCAR'S Research and Development Centre in Concord, N.C.
"Toyota's entry into the NASCAR Nextel Cup Series and the NASCAR Busch Series is good for drivers, teams and the fans. This move provides for even more intense competition on the track between drivers and manufacturers, which will provide more excitement and fan interest. Toyota's entry also provides more options for drivers and teams, which will increase the competition between manufacturers."
"It's a great pleasure to announce Toyota's entry into the NASCAR Nextel Cup and Busch Series with the Toyota Camry," said Dave Illingworth, senior vice president and chief planning and administrative officer for Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
Here's the OT rant and rave:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=925825[/url]
Toyota may have pulled the plug on its IRL IndyCar programme, but the Japanese car giant today confirmed that they will be entering the NASCAR Nextel Cup and Busch Series in 2007 with a car based on the Camry model.
The expansion will follow three years of Toyota competing in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series, and will result in all three of NASCAR's national series having four manufacturers competing, as Toyota will join Chevrolet, Dodge and Ford.
"NASCAR welcomes Toyota to the greatest auto racing in the world," said NASCAR Chairman and CEO Brian France, who made the announcement on Monday at NASCAR'S Research and Development Centre in Concord, N.C.
"Toyota's entry into the NASCAR Nextel Cup Series and the NASCAR Busch Series is good for drivers, teams and the fans. This move provides for even more intense competition on the track between drivers and manufacturers, which will provide more excitement and fan interest. Toyota's entry also provides more options for drivers and teams, which will increase the competition between manufacturers."
"It's a great pleasure to announce Toyota's entry into the NASCAR Nextel Cup and Busch Series with the Toyota Camry," said Dave Illingworth, senior vice president and chief planning and administrative officer for Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
Here's the OT rant and rave:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=925825[/url]
| wm07 | 01-23-2006 07:52 PM |
"NASCAR welcomes Toyota to the greatest auto racing in the world," <-- :lol: :lol: :lol:
| XenoWolf | 01-23-2006 08:03 PM |
Couldn't they have picked a better suited car than the Camry? Like a.... um.... like... .... nevermind.
| silver04rs | 01-23-2006 08:06 PM |
[QUOTE=wm07]"NASCAR welcomes Toyota to the greatest auto racing in the world," <-- :lol: :lol: :lol:[/QUOTE]
Why would NASCAR welcome Toyota to WRC when they arent even running this year :devil:
Why would NASCAR welcome Toyota to WRC when they arent even running this year :devil:
| Patrick Olsen | 01-23-2006 10:52 PM |
Why does anybody even bother to post any NASCAR related threads in the Motorsports Forum? It's already well-established that the overwhelming majority of people on this board are way too cool to find NASCAR interesting. After all, it's just rednecks who do nothing but turn left, correct? It's not [i]real[/i] racing, because the cars don't match what is actually sold on the street, it's just a tube-frame chassis with a semi-recognizable body shell on it. (Huh, kinda sounds like DTM, which is supposed to be wicked cool...) :rolleyes:
The subject has been [i]more[/i] than beaten to death in this forum. I vote that unless someone has something actually [i]productive[/i] to say about NASCAR in this forum (like airflow management around and through a sedan body, excellent racing parts that you can get on Ebay for dirt cheap prices, etc) that we just restrict these "NASCAR is teh ghey" posts to OT.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
The subject has been [i]more[/i] than beaten to death in this forum. I vote that unless someone has something actually [i]productive[/i] to say about NASCAR in this forum (like airflow management around and through a sedan body, excellent racing parts that you can get on Ebay for dirt cheap prices, etc) that we just restrict these "NASCAR is teh ghey" posts to OT.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| meebs | 01-23-2006 11:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen]Why does anybody even bother to post any NASCAR related threads in the Motorsports Forum? It's already well-established that the overwhelming majority of people on this board are way too cool to find NASCAR interesting. After all, it's just rednecks who do nothing but turn left, correct? It's not [i]real[/i] racing, because the cars don't match what is actually sold on the street, it's just a tube-frame chassis with a semi-recognizable body shell on it. (Huh, kinda sounds like DTM, which is supposed to be wicked cool...) :rolleyes:
The subject has been [i]more[/i] than beaten to death in this forum. I vote that unless someone has something actually [i]productive[/i] to say about NASCAR in this forum (like airflow management around and through a sedan body, excellent racing parts that you can get on Ebay for dirt cheap prices, etc) that we just restrict these "NASCAR is teh ghey" posts to OT.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan[/QUOTE]
Because it is very interesting that a Japanese manufacturer is entering the series, even if the series is dead boring...
The subject has been [i]more[/i] than beaten to death in this forum. I vote that unless someone has something actually [i]productive[/i] to say about NASCAR in this forum (like airflow management around and through a sedan body, excellent racing parts that you can get on Ebay for dirt cheap prices, etc) that we just restrict these "NASCAR is teh ghey" posts to OT.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan[/QUOTE]
Because it is very interesting that a Japanese manufacturer is entering the series, even if the series is dead boring...
| jeisen | 01-23-2006 11:07 PM |
I'm always routing for Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon...
[IMG]http://www.jimbrittphoto.com/showbiz2/Rodney%20Dangerfield.jpg[/IMG]
Even in Nascar circles i get no respect!
[IMG]http://www.jimbrittphoto.com/showbiz2/Rodney%20Dangerfield.jpg[/IMG]
Even in Nascar circles i get no respect!
| RBelcher00 | 01-24-2006 02:34 AM |
oh god...
P.S. I probably hate NASCAR more than anything in the world.
P.S. I probably hate NASCAR more than anything in the world.
| Homemade WRX | 01-24-2006 08:36 AM |
ok, so toyota dropped IRL for nascar...what the heck kinda change is that?!!
| Chromer | 01-24-2006 08:42 AM |
[QUOTE=Homemade WRX]ok, so toyota dropped IRL for nascar...what the heck kinda change is that?!![/QUOTE]
Well, for starters, only six people watch IRL.
Secondly, [color=red][size=1]TOYOTA[/size][/color] vs. [color=red][size=24][b]TOYOTA[/b][/size][/color]. You tell me which they'd rather have on the screen...
Well, for starters, only six people watch IRL.
Secondly, [color=red][size=1]TOYOTA[/size][/color] vs. [color=red][size=24][b]TOYOTA[/b][/size][/color]. You tell me which they'd rather have on the screen...
| XenoWolf | 01-24-2006 09:20 AM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen]Why does anybody even bother to post any NASCAR related threads in the Motorsports Forum? It's already well-established that the overwhelming majority of people on this board are way too cool to find NASCAR interesting. After all, it's just rednecks who do nothing but turn left, correct? It's not [i]real[/i] racing, because the cars don't match what is actually sold on the street, it's just a tube-frame chassis with a semi-recognizable body shell on it. (Huh, kinda sounds like DTM, which is supposed to be wicked cool...) :rolleyes[/QUOTE]
I was a huge NASCAR fan for damn near 10 years, and now I can't even stand hearing the word uttered. NASCAR is a 'poser' motorsport (for lack of a better term), in that it markets thier cars as 'stock' cars, which pisses me off. Even touring car series don't do that, and they're a hundred times more 'stock' than any NASCAR. I also can't stand the fact that NASCAR isn't progressive in ANY way, except maybe safety (which it took the death of their biggest superstar to prompt). The number one thing about NASCAR that pisses me off though is the proliferation of the commercialization of NASCAR. They throw thier logo on every steaming pile of **** they can get thier hands on, even when it has NOTHING to do with NASCAR itself. The France family and series owners/operators unceasingly whore the series out to fill thier pockets, while making the sport less and less interesting/progressive as a whole.
Just to be fair, I also hate the FIA for the same reasons (stifling the progression of the sport).
I'm glad I started watching CART during it's glory days, which was the gateway for my interest in Formula 1, WRC, and Touring Cars... I haven't looked back since.
I was a huge NASCAR fan for damn near 10 years, and now I can't even stand hearing the word uttered. NASCAR is a 'poser' motorsport (for lack of a better term), in that it markets thier cars as 'stock' cars, which pisses me off. Even touring car series don't do that, and they're a hundred times more 'stock' than any NASCAR. I also can't stand the fact that NASCAR isn't progressive in ANY way, except maybe safety (which it took the death of their biggest superstar to prompt). The number one thing about NASCAR that pisses me off though is the proliferation of the commercialization of NASCAR. They throw thier logo on every steaming pile of **** they can get thier hands on, even when it has NOTHING to do with NASCAR itself. The France family and series owners/operators unceasingly whore the series out to fill thier pockets, while making the sport less and less interesting/progressive as a whole.
Just to be fair, I also hate the FIA for the same reasons (stifling the progression of the sport).
I'm glad I started watching CART during it's glory days, which was the gateway for my interest in Formula 1, WRC, and Touring Cars... I haven't looked back since.
| pittspilot | 01-24-2006 09:49 AM |
[QUOTE=RBelcher00]oh god...
P.S. I probably hate NASCAR more than anything in the world.[/QUOTE]
You need to get out more.
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen] Why does anybody even bother to post any NASCAR related threads in the Motorsports Forum? It's already well-established that the overwhelming majority of people on this board are way too cool to find NASCAR interesting. After all, it's just rednecks who do nothing but turn left, correct? It's not real racing, because the cars don't match what is actually sold on the street, it's just a tube-frame chassis with a semi-recognizable body shell on it. (Huh, kinda sounds like DTM, which is supposed to be wicked cool...)
The subject has been more than beaten to death in this forum. I vote that unless someone has something actually productive to say about NASCAR in this forum (like airflow management around and through a sedan body, excellent racing parts that you can get on Ebay for dirt cheap prices, etc) that we just restrict these "NASCAR is teh ghey" posts to OT.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan[/QUOTE]
+ twenty billion
P.S. I probably hate NASCAR more than anything in the world.[/QUOTE]
You need to get out more.
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen] Why does anybody even bother to post any NASCAR related threads in the Motorsports Forum? It's already well-established that the overwhelming majority of people on this board are way too cool to find NASCAR interesting. After all, it's just rednecks who do nothing but turn left, correct? It's not real racing, because the cars don't match what is actually sold on the street, it's just a tube-frame chassis with a semi-recognizable body shell on it. (Huh, kinda sounds like DTM, which is supposed to be wicked cool...)
The subject has been more than beaten to death in this forum. I vote that unless someone has something actually productive to say about NASCAR in this forum (like airflow management around and through a sedan body, excellent racing parts that you can get on Ebay for dirt cheap prices, etc) that we just restrict these "NASCAR is teh ghey" posts to OT.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan[/QUOTE]
+ twenty billion
| Imprezive_04 | 01-24-2006 09:54 AM |
o come on haven't you seen Days of Thunder, "there is nothing stock about a stock car" :lol:
for the record i'll watch anything race, bikes, boats, planes, nascar, irl, wrc, i dont car as long as it goes fast.
what interesting about the toyota thing is that they aren't going to factory sponsor a car, like dodge, chevy, and ford
for the record i'll watch anything race, bikes, boats, planes, nascar, irl, wrc, i dont car as long as it goes fast.
what interesting about the toyota thing is that they aren't going to factory sponsor a car, like dodge, chevy, and ford
| hotrod | 01-24-2006 10:51 AM |
Actually it is a great move for Toyota to come into Nextel Cup racing. Much better product exposure and return on investment than they could ever get in any other racing series. They have also learned some things in the process.
Their new engine is supposed to be a very good engine. As the newest in the field it of course is benefiting from a clean sheet design, like the Dodge engine. They examined the Ford, Chevy and Dodge engines and took the best of each in their designs.
Word has it that they also discovered (re-discovered) some of the advantages of the push rod V-8 over the overhead cam designs, and it was a very useful design and engineering experience.
On the same token NASCAR will benefit from the us vs them marketing.
Given the fact that many of the Japanese cars are actually built in the U.S., and many so called American cars contain components sourced from Japanese manufacturers, they are as American as any other major manufacture car is I guess at this point.
Larry
Their new engine is supposed to be a very good engine. As the newest in the field it of course is benefiting from a clean sheet design, like the Dodge engine. They examined the Ford, Chevy and Dodge engines and took the best of each in their designs.
Word has it that they also discovered (re-discovered) some of the advantages of the push rod V-8 over the overhead cam designs, and it was a very useful design and engineering experience.
On the same token NASCAR will benefit from the us vs them marketing.
Given the fact that many of the Japanese cars are actually built in the U.S., and many so called American cars contain components sourced from Japanese manufacturers, they are as American as any other major manufacture car is I guess at this point.
Larry
| Jack | 01-24-2006 11:14 AM |
[QUOTE=hotrod]Given the fact that many of the Japanese cars are actually built in the U.S., and many so called American cars contain components sourced from Japanese manufacturers, they are as American as any other major manufacture car is I guess at this point.
Larry[/QUOTE]
Very good observation. I have 3 american built cars in my garage. Mazda6 (Flat Rock, Michigan), Subaru OBW (Lafayette, IN) and GMC Yukon (I have no clue where it's built).
It's interesting that the traditional US mfgrs have been slowly but surely sourcing either cars or at least designs from outside the US. A good portion of the Ford lineup is Mazda platform or Volvo platform based. The Pontiac GTO is an Australian Holden....we can go on, but I've obviously gone on a tangent here......
NASCAR: Ok. Toyota does pretty well in the Craftsman truck series, so NASCAR is a natural progression for them. I like NASCAR. Why? I don't have cable. Go ahead and pull your cable out and see how much racing you'll find. I either watch NASCAR or nothing.
I also think NASCAR has gone the right way as an entertainment media. Fine the crap out of drivers who show bad sportsmanship or swear on air, make it ultra family friendly, even whack the races up when you can't tell for sure who's ahead. It's entertainment and well run entertainment. Sure, I'd rather watch SCCA GT racing, but I gotta go to the in-laws to watch it. You think that's a good choice?
:D
jack
Larry[/QUOTE]
Very good observation. I have 3 american built cars in my garage. Mazda6 (Flat Rock, Michigan), Subaru OBW (Lafayette, IN) and GMC Yukon (I have no clue where it's built).
It's interesting that the traditional US mfgrs have been slowly but surely sourcing either cars or at least designs from outside the US. A good portion of the Ford lineup is Mazda platform or Volvo platform based. The Pontiac GTO is an Australian Holden....we can go on, but I've obviously gone on a tangent here......
NASCAR: Ok. Toyota does pretty well in the Craftsman truck series, so NASCAR is a natural progression for them. I like NASCAR. Why? I don't have cable. Go ahead and pull your cable out and see how much racing you'll find. I either watch NASCAR or nothing.
I also think NASCAR has gone the right way as an entertainment media. Fine the crap out of drivers who show bad sportsmanship or swear on air, make it ultra family friendly, even whack the races up when you can't tell for sure who's ahead. It's entertainment and well run entertainment. Sure, I'd rather watch SCCA GT racing, but I gotta go to the in-laws to watch it. You think that's a good choice?
:D
jack
| greg donovan | 01-24-2006 11:44 AM |
well since toyota just passed ford in vehicle sales and is creeping up on GM this makes prfect sense.
toyota did pretty well w/the celica in the dash series and has been awesome in the truck series.
toyota did pretty well w/the celica in the dash series and has been awesome in the truck series.
| joey1313 | 01-24-2006 12:28 PM |
Should be fun the first time Toyota wins a race. I think they will come in prepared with good teams and drivers. I expect them to win a race in their first season.
| jeisen | 01-24-2006 06:04 PM |
One thing i like about nascar as opposed to some of the other motorsports is the close racing. Does it hamper technological development, perhaps to an extent, however, the fact that everyone is basically driving the same spec car makes for great racing among the drivers. It is much more difficult to determine who is going to win a race going into the weekend in a nascar race as say Formula 1 or WRC. Add to that the "chase" (playoffs) and it prevents 1 driver (Loeb, Schumacher) from clinching the series early on.
On an interesting note, Even though F1 engines are some of the most rev-happy in the world, a nascar motor's pistons actually move almost 20% faster. [url]http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=18&article_id=2398[/url]
On an interesting note, Even though F1 engines are some of the most rev-happy in the world, a nascar motor's pistons actually move almost 20% faster. [url]http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=18&article_id=2398[/url]
| dakwrx | 01-24-2006 08:17 PM |
a supposition....
Toyota enters NASCAR..... begins to win....... Camry gets alot of TV exposure for sponsors....... GM, in typical fashion, cuts all NASCAR funding at first string of race losses...... Ford, in profit death spiral, exits NASCAR saying they will be back "at some point in the future"......... the Frances, hysterical at loss of big manufacturers and trying to avoid loss of TV exposure (aka; profits) quickly "modify" rules allowing any stock-block NA or turbo 6 or 8-cyl engine format......... Nissan and Honda immediately announce sillouette versions of the Accord and Altima, both companies mount an all-out assault against Toyota........... all NASCAR events preceded by professional drift competition............. Subaru are the surprise 2009 Nextel Cup winners with their 250mph Prodrive AWD H6 turbo Legacy!!
NASIOC boards explode with joy!! :banana:
I wish
Toyota enters NASCAR..... begins to win....... Camry gets alot of TV exposure for sponsors....... GM, in typical fashion, cuts all NASCAR funding at first string of race losses...... Ford, in profit death spiral, exits NASCAR saying they will be back "at some point in the future"......... the Frances, hysterical at loss of big manufacturers and trying to avoid loss of TV exposure (aka; profits) quickly "modify" rules allowing any stock-block NA or turbo 6 or 8-cyl engine format......... Nissan and Honda immediately announce sillouette versions of the Accord and Altima, both companies mount an all-out assault against Toyota........... all NASCAR events preceded by professional drift competition............. Subaru are the surprise 2009 Nextel Cup winners with their 250mph Prodrive AWD H6 turbo Legacy!!
NASIOC boards explode with joy!! :banana:
I wish
| 8Complex | 01-24-2006 08:32 PM |
They should've entered with a Scion tC, instead... of course, the bumbled that one and made it FWD anyway... :rolleyes:
I think that everyone here can agree that at least now there is competition for the big 3 on the big oval. They may have made up the sport, but they need to get pushed around a bit more just to open their eyes.
I think that everyone here can agree that at least now there is competition for the big 3 on the big oval. They may have made up the sport, but they need to get pushed around a bit more just to open their eyes.
| WickedSTI | 01-24-2006 08:38 PM |
edit delete nevermind carry on.Brad
| WRXMaster | 01-24-2006 08:39 PM |
[QUOTE=hotrod]Actually it is a great move for Toyota to come into Nextel Cup racing. Much better product exposure and return on investment than they could ever get in any other racing series. They have also learned some things in the process.
Their new engine is supposed to be a very good engine. As the newest in the field it of course is benefiting from a clean sheet design, like the Dodge engine. They examined the Ford, Chevy and Dodge engines and took the best of each in their designs.
Word has it that they also discovered (re-discovered) some of the advantages of the push rod V-8 over the overhead cam designs, and it was a very useful design and engineering experience.
On the same token NASCAR will benefit from the us vs them marketing.
Given the fact that many of the Japanese cars are actually built in the U.S., and many so called American cars contain components sourced from Japanese manufacturers, they are as American as any other major manufacture car is I guess at this point.
Larry[/QUOTE]
Product exposure? You mean name recognition? Toyota is stupid for jumping into nascar. Nascars dont even resemble the factory car and use 0 of the road going parts. That means the manufactures base everything on name recognition. What american doesnt know what ford, chevy, toyota, dodge are. These companies dont need name recognition... When you ask someone... "whats the first thing you think of with the STI" 80% will say its a rally car.... ask someone "whats the first thing you think of with the monte carlo" they will not say nascar. Its saturated stupid marketing
btw everytime you read a article in car magazines about he evo & sti .... they mention rally bred .... Do any the nascar vehichles mention the nascar hertiege?
Their new engine is supposed to be a very good engine. As the newest in the field it of course is benefiting from a clean sheet design, like the Dodge engine. They examined the Ford, Chevy and Dodge engines and took the best of each in their designs.
Word has it that they also discovered (re-discovered) some of the advantages of the push rod V-8 over the overhead cam designs, and it was a very useful design and engineering experience.
On the same token NASCAR will benefit from the us vs them marketing.
Given the fact that many of the Japanese cars are actually built in the U.S., and many so called American cars contain components sourced from Japanese manufacturers, they are as American as any other major manufacture car is I guess at this point.
Larry[/QUOTE]
Product exposure? You mean name recognition? Toyota is stupid for jumping into nascar. Nascars dont even resemble the factory car and use 0 of the road going parts. That means the manufactures base everything on name recognition. What american doesnt know what ford, chevy, toyota, dodge are. These companies dont need name recognition... When you ask someone... "whats the first thing you think of with the STI" 80% will say its a rally car.... ask someone "whats the first thing you think of with the monte carlo" they will not say nascar. Its saturated stupid marketing
btw everytime you read a article in car magazines about he evo & sti .... they mention rally bred .... Do any the nascar vehichles mention the nascar hertiege?
| LastResort | 01-24-2006 08:42 PM |
[QUOTE=Jack ffr1846]Very good observation. I have 3 american built cars in my garage. Mazda6 (Flat Rock, Michigan), Subaru OBW (Lafayette, IN) and GMC Yukon (I have no clue where it's built).[/QUOTE]
Check your doorjam and look for a maple leaf sticker, it might not be made where you think it is. (My Chevy k1500 is Canadian.)
Check your doorjam and look for a maple leaf sticker, it might not be made where you think it is. (My Chevy k1500 is Canadian.)
| LastResort | 01-24-2006 08:46 PM |
[QUOTE=dakwrx]Subaru are the surprise 2009 Nextel Cup winners with their 250mph Prodrive AWD H6 turbo Legacy!![/QUOTE]
fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! ......fap! fap! .....fap! ............fap!
:o <------My "O" Face
fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! fap! ......fap! fap! .....fap! ............fap!
:o <------My "O" Face
| Chromer | 01-24-2006 11:01 PM |
[QUOTE=dakwrx]a supposition....
Toyota enters NASCAR..... begins to win....... Camry gets alot of TV exposure for sponsors....... GM, in typical fashion, cuts all NASCAR funding at first string of race losses...... Ford, in profit death spiral, exits NASCAR saying they will be back "at some point in the future"......... the Frances, hysterical at loss of big manufacturers and trying to avoid loss of TV exposure (aka; profits) quickly "modify" rules allowing any stock-block NA or turbo 6 or 8-cyl engine format......... Nissan and Honda immediately announce sillouette versions of the Accord and Altima, both companies mount an all-out assault against Toyota........... all NASCAR events preceded by professional drift competition............. Subaru are the surprise 2009 Nextel Cup winners with their 250mph Prodrive AWD H6 turbo Legacy!!
NASIOC boards explode with joy!! :banana:
I wish[/QUOTE]
Heh. In reality, GM and Ford cutting funding would just mean the teams would have to either make do with less money, or get the money from somewhere else. IIRC besides cash, the engine blocks are about the only thing they supply, and even those get significant massaging and preparation by the engine builders.
Toyota enters NASCAR..... begins to win....... Camry gets alot of TV exposure for sponsors....... GM, in typical fashion, cuts all NASCAR funding at first string of race losses...... Ford, in profit death spiral, exits NASCAR saying they will be back "at some point in the future"......... the Frances, hysterical at loss of big manufacturers and trying to avoid loss of TV exposure (aka; profits) quickly "modify" rules allowing any stock-block NA or turbo 6 or 8-cyl engine format......... Nissan and Honda immediately announce sillouette versions of the Accord and Altima, both companies mount an all-out assault against Toyota........... all NASCAR events preceded by professional drift competition............. Subaru are the surprise 2009 Nextel Cup winners with their 250mph Prodrive AWD H6 turbo Legacy!!
NASIOC boards explode with joy!! :banana:
I wish[/QUOTE]
Heh. In reality, GM and Ford cutting funding would just mean the teams would have to either make do with less money, or get the money from somewhere else. IIRC besides cash, the engine blocks are about the only thing they supply, and even those get significant massaging and preparation by the engine builders.
| Homemade WRX | 01-24-2006 11:02 PM |
[QUOTE=Chromer]Well, for starters, only six people watch IRL.
Secondly, [color=red][size=1]TOYOTA[/size][/color] vs. [color=red][size=24][b]TOYOTA[/b][/size][/color]. You tell me which they'd rather have on the screen...[/QUOTE]
LOL...
Secondly, [color=red][size=1]TOYOTA[/size][/color] vs. [color=red][size=24][b]TOYOTA[/b][/size][/color]. You tell me which they'd rather have on the screen...[/QUOTE]
LOL...
| hotrod | 01-24-2006 11:37 PM |
[quote] Product exposure? You mean name recognition? [/quote]
Yep in advertising the name "is" the product.
The NASCAR race cars have as much in common with the show room cars as Ferraris street cars resemble F1 or my WRX resembles a prodrive prepared rally car.
F1, NASCAR are very closely controlled and essentially spec series. The main payoff for the factories is name exposure and engineering and developement gains.
[quote] btw everytime you read a article in car magazines about the evo & sti .... they mention rally bred .... Do any the nascar vehichles mention the nascar hertiege?[/quote]
No -- because it is a stupid marketing gimmick aimed at consumers that haven't got a clue. Even when the Chrysler Hemi was dominating the NASCAR scene, in a production based series ( much like WRC is today ) they did not assert their cars were "NASCAR bred". They sold the fact that their cars were "proven in NASCAR", and they certainly took pride in their success on the track, but even then it was mostly a demonstration of engineering skill, and basic engine design supperiority ( ie durability etc.) and expertise in aerodynmics.
My 1968 Road Runner had as much in common with Richard Petty's car as your WRX/STi would have in common with a WRC car. At that level of racing there is very little carry over of actual components to the race car. There is however significant knowledge transfer from the racing platform to the production designs.
Honda certainly learned lots of useful information in its ventures into racing, and most of its benefit was in name recognition --- I didn't see any Integra's racing in open wheel racing series.
Larry
Yep in advertising the name "is" the product.
The NASCAR race cars have as much in common with the show room cars as Ferraris street cars resemble F1 or my WRX resembles a prodrive prepared rally car.
F1, NASCAR are very closely controlled and essentially spec series. The main payoff for the factories is name exposure and engineering and developement gains.
[quote] btw everytime you read a article in car magazines about the evo & sti .... they mention rally bred .... Do any the nascar vehichles mention the nascar hertiege?[/quote]
No -- because it is a stupid marketing gimmick aimed at consumers that haven't got a clue. Even when the Chrysler Hemi was dominating the NASCAR scene, in a production based series ( much like WRC is today ) they did not assert their cars were "NASCAR bred". They sold the fact that their cars were "proven in NASCAR", and they certainly took pride in their success on the track, but even then it was mostly a demonstration of engineering skill, and basic engine design supperiority ( ie durability etc.) and expertise in aerodynmics.
My 1968 Road Runner had as much in common with Richard Petty's car as your WRX/STi would have in common with a WRC car. At that level of racing there is very little carry over of actual components to the race car. There is however significant knowledge transfer from the racing platform to the production designs.
Honda certainly learned lots of useful information in its ventures into racing, and most of its benefit was in name recognition --- I didn't see any Integra's racing in open wheel racing series.
Larry
| Ferg | 01-25-2006 12:10 AM |
With a major overhaul of NASCAR's technical regulations (just google NASCAR's "Car of the Future") due for the 2007 season, Toyota could very well surprise many doubters.
There's no question that Toyota has the financial power and resources that NASCAR teams can only dream about. Combine huge changes to the technical regulations and the budget to quickly design, redesign, and constantly develop a car...
[i]edit[/i]
Opps, NASCAR is calling it the "Car of Tomorrow".
There's no question that Toyota has the financial power and resources that NASCAR teams can only dream about. Combine huge changes to the technical regulations and the budget to quickly design, redesign, and constantly develop a car...
[i]edit[/i]
Opps, NASCAR is calling it the "Car of Tomorrow".
| hotrod | 01-25-2006 12:57 AM |
[quote]There's no question that Toyota has the financial power and resources that NASCAR teams can only dream about.[/quote]
That of course may also force the domestic makers to get off the pot and start more formal support for their teams to remain competitive.
Dodge and their return to NASCAR brought some interesting technology to the table that was helpful to their teams. With real time design feed back on their "one team" system, they could make direct recommendations for engineering changes to their engines very quickly. The team had direct access to CAD/CAM files through the rapid prototyping center in Auburn Hills, as lessons were learned.
And some folks say these guys are "low tech"!
Of course like all things there are down sides too. The new Dodge body design ended up burning them because of last minute rule changes by NASCAR. They got a high front down force body approved only to have NASCAR cut the allowed size of the rear spoilers which ruined the front/rear aero balance of the cars.
Larry
That of course may also force the domestic makers to get off the pot and start more formal support for their teams to remain competitive.
Dodge and their return to NASCAR brought some interesting technology to the table that was helpful to their teams. With real time design feed back on their "one team" system, they could make direct recommendations for engineering changes to their engines very quickly. The team had direct access to CAD/CAM files through the rapid prototyping center in Auburn Hills, as lessons were learned.
And some folks say these guys are "low tech"!
Of course like all things there are down sides too. The new Dodge body design ended up burning them because of last minute rule changes by NASCAR. They got a high front down force body approved only to have NASCAR cut the allowed size of the rear spoilers which ruined the front/rear aero balance of the cars.
Larry
| greg donovan | 01-25-2006 01:40 AM |
michael waltrip will be owning and driving a camry in 07.
bill davis racing and redbull ave teamed up to run a camry in 07.
should be interesting.
bill davis racing and redbull ave teamed up to run a camry in 07.
should be interesting.
| WRXMaster | 01-25-2006 04:35 AM |
[QUOTE=hotrod]Yep in advertising the name "is" the product.
The NASCAR race cars have as much in common with the show room cars as Ferraris street cars resemble F1 or my WRX resembles a prodrive prepared rally car.
F1, NASCAR are very closely controlled and essentially spec series. The main payoff for the factories is name exposure and engineering and developement gains.
Larry[/QUOTE]
F1 is based on technology. Ferrari use their knowledge learned from F1 in their street cars.. "nascar doesn't". WRC cars use alot of parts off their street counterpart "I have been to prodrive and seen how they engineer their wrc cars". Name 1 part of a Nextel cup car thats on the factory model? Fake headlight stickers? Please... nobody uses technology learned from nascar..... and the exposure for those manufactures isnt helping the big 3
The NASCAR race cars have as much in common with the show room cars as Ferraris street cars resemble F1 or my WRX resembles a prodrive prepared rally car.
F1, NASCAR are very closely controlled and essentially spec series. The main payoff for the factories is name exposure and engineering and developement gains.
Larry[/QUOTE]
F1 is based on technology. Ferrari use their knowledge learned from F1 in their street cars.. "nascar doesn't". WRC cars use alot of parts off their street counterpart "I have been to prodrive and seen how they engineer their wrc cars". Name 1 part of a Nextel cup car thats on the factory model? Fake headlight stickers? Please... nobody uses technology learned from nascar..... and the exposure for those manufactures isnt helping the big 3
| hotrod | 01-25-2006 06:19 AM |
[quote] Name 1 part of a Nextel cup car thats on the factory model?[/quote]
Name one street Ferrari that you can buy off the show room floor that has an F1 engine in it!
[quote]"I have been to prodrive and seen how they engineer their wrc cars".[/quote]
The key word there is "engineer" their cars. By the time any major race team in world class competition gets done "tweaking" factory parts, even in rigidly enforced stock classes there is not a lot of the stock configuration left.
It is a convenient illusion for folks to think the WRC cars are in any significant way "stock".
Don't get me wrong I think WRC is a great development tool and understand they share certain basic design layout advantages and disadvantages. The stretch between a race prepped production based race car and a show room stock car of the same model is HUGH. Your kidding yourself if you think your car has much in common with the WRC cars other than external body shape, and a handful of core components like the engine block.
I bet you could list the components on a WRC that are [b]unchanged[/b] from the factory OEM condtion on the back of a business card. The factory cars do not share the intercooler, oil cooler arraingement, paddle shifted transmissions, electronic controlled LSD's etc. Factory base parts are limited to blue printed hand assembled spin offs of base components like the engine block, crank, etc.
NASCAR has the same technology transfer to the manufactures that the F1 and WRC does.
WRC is in exactly the same place NASCAR was in the 70's and 80's, when they started to spec individual components for safety, balancing competition and cost control.
Actually NASCAR has more in common with F1 at this point than it does WRC. It is a marketing tool, and technology proving ground for advanced engine component design and reliability testing. You don't have to build an identical part in the showroom stock car to benefit from developments in racing, all you need do is take the lessons learned and apply them to the production car design.
The simple fact is, that NASCAR like F1 has moved so far past stock configurations you can no longer be even remotely competitive in either using street car components. WRC is very close to the same point.
You can only stiffen a factory unibody so much before you need to move to a tube chassis. The engines are also currently right on the ragged edge of survival. If the FIA did not restrict power with turbo inlet restictors ( same exact thing NASCAR does with carburator restrictor plates) the stock bodys or engine could not handle the power levels, nor could the drivers keep ahead of the cars.
I would love to see NASCAR move back to a true production based engine block and crank, but it won't happen due to competion. Even though the engines are not actually available in a showroom stock design they are refined examples of production engines, and show the limits of the technology.
Larry
Name one street Ferrari that you can buy off the show room floor that has an F1 engine in it!
[quote]"I have been to prodrive and seen how they engineer their wrc cars".[/quote]
The key word there is "engineer" their cars. By the time any major race team in world class competition gets done "tweaking" factory parts, even in rigidly enforced stock classes there is not a lot of the stock configuration left.
It is a convenient illusion for folks to think the WRC cars are in any significant way "stock".
Don't get me wrong I think WRC is a great development tool and understand they share certain basic design layout advantages and disadvantages. The stretch between a race prepped production based race car and a show room stock car of the same model is HUGH. Your kidding yourself if you think your car has much in common with the WRC cars other than external body shape, and a handful of core components like the engine block.
I bet you could list the components on a WRC that are [b]unchanged[/b] from the factory OEM condtion on the back of a business card. The factory cars do not share the intercooler, oil cooler arraingement, paddle shifted transmissions, electronic controlled LSD's etc. Factory base parts are limited to blue printed hand assembled spin offs of base components like the engine block, crank, etc.
NASCAR has the same technology transfer to the manufactures that the F1 and WRC does.
WRC is in exactly the same place NASCAR was in the 70's and 80's, when they started to spec individual components for safety, balancing competition and cost control.
Actually NASCAR has more in common with F1 at this point than it does WRC. It is a marketing tool, and technology proving ground for advanced engine component design and reliability testing. You don't have to build an identical part in the showroom stock car to benefit from developments in racing, all you need do is take the lessons learned and apply them to the production car design.
The simple fact is, that NASCAR like F1 has moved so far past stock configurations you can no longer be even remotely competitive in either using street car components. WRC is very close to the same point.
You can only stiffen a factory unibody so much before you need to move to a tube chassis. The engines are also currently right on the ragged edge of survival. If the FIA did not restrict power with turbo inlet restictors ( same exact thing NASCAR does with carburator restrictor plates) the stock bodys or engine could not handle the power levels, nor could the drivers keep ahead of the cars.
I would love to see NASCAR move back to a true production based engine block and crank, but it won't happen due to competion. Even though the engines are not actually available in a showroom stock design they are refined examples of production engines, and show the limits of the technology.
Larry
| Opie | 01-25-2006 08:02 PM |
Toyota is in all three...and Nissan has supposedly petitioned NASCAR to run the Titan in the NASCAR Truck Series...
| Chromer | 01-25-2006 08:15 PM |
[QUOTE=hotrod]The engines are also currently right on the ragged edge of survival.[/QUOTE]
Only because making the parts heavier means you're just carrying around extra weight. NASCAR engines in particular could be making a lot more power than they do, even with restrictor plates. Static compression ratio is limited at something like 12:1 or 14:1. They could (and used to) run a lot higher than that -- 17:1 and beyond.
Only because making the parts heavier means you're just carrying around extra weight. NASCAR engines in particular could be making a lot more power than they do, even with restrictor plates. Static compression ratio is limited at something like 12:1 or 14:1. They could (and used to) run a lot higher than that -- 17:1 and beyond.
| hotrod | 01-25-2006 10:15 PM |
[quote] Only because making the parts heavier means you're just carrying around extra weight. NASCAR engines in particular could be making a lot more power than they do, even with restrictor plates. Static compression ratio is limited at something like 12:1 or 14:1. They could (and used to) run a lot higher than that -- 17:1 and beyond.[/quote]
Right -- classic example of pushing the technology beyond widely accepted limits. They were running upto 18:1 compression ratios at one time when conventional wisdom was that it was impossible to do that on the fuels they used. In doing so they essentially defeated the performance restriction imposed by the restrictor plates.
Much like WRC is talking about dropping water injection, NASCAR placed an upper limit on compression ratios to limit top speeds on the super speedways and ensure the restictor plates were still effective absolute limits on power.
In the case of the WRC engines, years ago they got up in the 400+ hp range and even the best drivers said the cars were getting to a performance level that was almost undrivable.
Same has happened in open wheel racing where they had to cancel the race in Texas because the performance of the cars on that track was beyond the physical tolerance level of the drivers due to high G loads etc.
The common factor we've seen over many years is each racing series eventually gets to performance levels that are unsustainable either due to spectator safety (reason why NASCAR trys to keep speeds below 200 mph) or the physical limits of the drivers.
In the late 1980s NHRA began making changes to hold the AA/F dragsters below of very near 300 mph due to insurance issues and some serious accidents that threw debris all the way into spectator parking lots.
The only solution in the long run is to go to spec type series and gradually rein in the technology to place limits on performance. If you could build a track that could guarantee the cars would not fly into the stands in a serious accident, NASCAR could be running up in the low 200 mph range for the last 20 -30 years, inspite of reducing engine displacements by about 17% since the late 1960's.
The bad news is that the restrictions simply force the teams to explore other forms of technology to get the performance back.
Larry
Right -- classic example of pushing the technology beyond widely accepted limits. They were running upto 18:1 compression ratios at one time when conventional wisdom was that it was impossible to do that on the fuels they used. In doing so they essentially defeated the performance restriction imposed by the restrictor plates.
Much like WRC is talking about dropping water injection, NASCAR placed an upper limit on compression ratios to limit top speeds on the super speedways and ensure the restictor plates were still effective absolute limits on power.
In the case of the WRC engines, years ago they got up in the 400+ hp range and even the best drivers said the cars were getting to a performance level that was almost undrivable.
Same has happened in open wheel racing where they had to cancel the race in Texas because the performance of the cars on that track was beyond the physical tolerance level of the drivers due to high G loads etc.
The common factor we've seen over many years is each racing series eventually gets to performance levels that are unsustainable either due to spectator safety (reason why NASCAR trys to keep speeds below 200 mph) or the physical limits of the drivers.
In the late 1980s NHRA began making changes to hold the AA/F dragsters below of very near 300 mph due to insurance issues and some serious accidents that threw debris all the way into spectator parking lots.
The only solution in the long run is to go to spec type series and gradually rein in the technology to place limits on performance. If you could build a track that could guarantee the cars would not fly into the stands in a serious accident, NASCAR could be running up in the low 200 mph range for the last 20 -30 years, inspite of reducing engine displacements by about 17% since the late 1960's.
The bad news is that the restrictions simply force the teams to explore other forms of technology to get the performance back.
Larry
| Bonzo | 01-26-2006 09:16 AM |
Some food for thought.
F1 vs nascar. Who spends more time in the wind tunnel? I think you'd be suprised. Does any of F1's windtunnel research help us daily? I think not. Does any of nascars reaserch help? Maybe.
Efficiency. I am impressed when a nascar team can get a full sized 3500 pound car to go over 200 mph with an engine breathing through 4 (quite small) .875" holes in the restrictor plates yeilding power in the low 400's. This is where every part of the car is obssesively engineered for efficiency. Aero, drivetrain, bearings, bearing surfaces, lubricants.... This is all good stuff for the normal end user.
I believe today the restrictor plate has been opened up a bit so these numbers were from a few years ago.
nascar's only goal is to provide close safe racing while providing a marketable show for the tv veiwing public. They will do whatever is neccesary to keep the playing field level. If you bring something new to the track w/o having it approved prior and then show you're much faster, expect that to be outlawed. This is the engineering challenge they face. The key word is challenge. It's easy to design or engineer complex systems but make them simple with very few tools or materials and you ave a challenge.
It's not easy for the team or the driver in nascar, just different.
F1 vs nascar. Who spends more time in the wind tunnel? I think you'd be suprised. Does any of F1's windtunnel research help us daily? I think not. Does any of nascars reaserch help? Maybe.
Efficiency. I am impressed when a nascar team can get a full sized 3500 pound car to go over 200 mph with an engine breathing through 4 (quite small) .875" holes in the restrictor plates yeilding power in the low 400's. This is where every part of the car is obssesively engineered for efficiency. Aero, drivetrain, bearings, bearing surfaces, lubricants.... This is all good stuff for the normal end user.
I believe today the restrictor plate has been opened up a bit so these numbers were from a few years ago.
nascar's only goal is to provide close safe racing while providing a marketable show for the tv veiwing public. They will do whatever is neccesary to keep the playing field level. If you bring something new to the track w/o having it approved prior and then show you're much faster, expect that to be outlawed. This is the engineering challenge they face. The key word is challenge. It's easy to design or engineer complex systems but make them simple with very few tools or materials and you ave a challenge.
It's not easy for the team or the driver in nascar, just different.
| Rodan | 01-26-2006 02:48 PM |
I watch NASCAR!!!! Very Entertaining well at least the end of the races. And the Chase race is just simply awesome.
| WRXMaster | 01-26-2006 04:51 PM |
it all comes down to the manufactures benifiting the exposure.... and it looks like the Ford and GM are both losing alot of money.. nobody is buying their products... but if you look at ford they are making profits in their european division "wrc territory"...Europe is a harder market for manufactures. I dont understand how you people can like nascar? the cars look like crap in person and they are far for even looking like a stock car... at least a wrc car is street legal
real stock car racing ... in austrailia I can buy a v8 rwd ford falcon off the showroom floor
[IMG]http://www.vf750fd.com/v8supercars/bright.jpg[/IMG]
real stock car racing ... in austrailia I can buy a v8 rwd ford falcon off the showroom floor
[IMG]http://www.vf750fd.com/v8supercars/bright.jpg[/IMG]
| WRXMaster | 01-26-2006 05:07 PM |
Pictures speak better then words
Monte carlo
[IMG]http://www.bobbylaymanchevrolet.net/Photos/06_49103049.JPG[/IMG]
Monte carlo nascar
[IMG]http://i.cnn.net/nascar/2002/news/headlines/wc/10/10/montecarlo_new/montecarlo.jpg[/IMG]
Ford Focus
[IMG]http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/news/11855/ford_focus_st_2005-L.jpg[/IMG]
Ford WRC
[IMG]http://1.im.cz/n/photo/03/84/10edcfk-gallery.jpg[/IMG]
Monte carlo
[IMG]http://www.bobbylaymanchevrolet.net/Photos/06_49103049.JPG[/IMG]
Monte carlo nascar
[IMG]http://i.cnn.net/nascar/2002/news/headlines/wc/10/10/montecarlo_new/montecarlo.jpg[/IMG]
Ford Focus
[IMG]http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/news/11855/ford_focus_st_2005-L.jpg[/IMG]
Ford WRC
[IMG]http://1.im.cz/n/photo/03/84/10edcfk-gallery.jpg[/IMG]
| mykrrrr | 01-26-2006 05:30 PM |
[QUOTE=Chromer]Well, for starters, only six people watch IRL.
Secondly, [color=red][size=1]TOYOTA[/size][/color] vs. [color=red][size=24][b]TOYOTA[/b][/size][/color]. You tell me which they'd rather have on the screen...[/QUOTE]
Correction...there was only five people paying attention to IRL last season. The 3rd guy was just flipping channels to find HGTV.
Personally I'm stoked for Toyota to come into NASCAR. They'll learn how to build a proper pushrod carburated sheet metal'd "car" and win with it. :D
The Camry is just as 'merican as a Mexican made Ford Fusion.
Secondly, [color=red][size=1]TOYOTA[/size][/color] vs. [color=red][size=24][b]TOYOTA[/b][/size][/color]. You tell me which they'd rather have on the screen...[/QUOTE]
Correction...there was only five people paying attention to IRL last season. The 3rd guy was just flipping channels to find HGTV.
Personally I'm stoked for Toyota to come into NASCAR. They'll learn how to build a proper pushrod carburated sheet metal'd "car" and win with it. :D
The Camry is just as 'merican as a Mexican made Ford Fusion.
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