| Silver_Fox | 04-29-2001 07:55 AM |
*** is up with subaru getting whooped on
in the WRC? the ownage factor is significantly higher than it should be IMO...that new sube should be ripping stuff up!!
| Subie Gal | 04-29-2001 08:02 AM |
good morning [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
first off... let's get this outta the way:
[b]#7. Absolutely no "elite" style (***, @@@, iMpReZa) or all caps writing is allowed anywhere on the
message board and especially in the subject lines.[/b] the board owners dont like it...
now for your question...
Subaru has had some engine, and other minor issues w/the new car. They are working feverishly right now to correct them... including massive testing. I predict we will see a turn around here really quick in the standings as the team works the bugs out...
patience... [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] and faith! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
go Subaru!!!!!
j. [url="http://www.subiegal.com"]www.subiegal.com[/url]
first off... let's get this outta the way:
[b]#7. Absolutely no "elite" style (***, @@@, iMpReZa) or all caps writing is allowed anywhere on the
message board and especially in the subject lines.[/b] the board owners dont like it...
now for your question...
Subaru has had some engine, and other minor issues w/the new car. They are working feverishly right now to correct them... including massive testing. I predict we will see a turn around here really quick in the standings as the team works the bugs out...
patience... [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] and faith! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
go Subaru!!!!!
j. [url="http://www.subiegal.com"]www.subiegal.com[/url]
| PURE EPI | 04-29-2001 05:24 PM |
Thanks John.
Jamie? did you not read you moderator manual all the way through?
j/k
[This message has been edited by PURE EPI (edited April 29, 2001).]
Jamie? did you not read you moderator manual all the way through?
j/k
[This message has been edited by PURE EPI (edited April 29, 2001).]
| brandonl | 04-29-2001 08:54 PM |
Are all of subaru's problems in the WRC car related? I'm sure Richard or Petter have nothing to do with it right? Flame on!
| Buck-O | 04-29-2001 11:44 PM |
Word Brandon...
i thik you hit the perverbial nail on the head.
Its still my beleife that "Burnsy" is too stuck up on himself. And too busy trying to make a big deal about being better then McRae, rather then driving his own race. Plus the young guns at subaru need ot learn that even though their contracts say they dont have to pay for the $500,000+ cars, that doesnt give you an excuse to go out and trash it evry rally and just walk away with a smile and an "oh well". Plus the new car unfortunatly, is poorly designed. They completely redesigned the whole car and through out alot of the proven winning design of the PR2000. I dunno, maybe someone at FHI got fired, and the replaced him with some knucklehead?
Hmmm...like i care...i root for Carlos. El Matadore owns all the drivers in the WRC. And has the numbers to prove it.
i thik you hit the perverbial nail on the head.
Its still my beleife that "Burnsy" is too stuck up on himself. And too busy trying to make a big deal about being better then McRae, rather then driving his own race. Plus the young guns at subaru need ot learn that even though their contracts say they dont have to pay for the $500,000+ cars, that doesnt give you an excuse to go out and trash it evry rally and just walk away with a smile and an "oh well". Plus the new car unfortunatly, is poorly designed. They completely redesigned the whole car and through out alot of the proven winning design of the PR2000. I dunno, maybe someone at FHI got fired, and the replaced him with some knucklehead?
Hmmm...like i care...i root for Carlos. El Matadore owns all the drivers in the WRC. And has the numbers to prove it.
| Jon Bogert | 04-30-2001 12:11 AM |
Actually, Subie Gal, the board software replaces w.t.f. with ***.
| Thug | 04-30-2001 04:28 AM |
Ah, finally another i-Clubber that doesnt like Burns. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] I thought I was the only one.
later,
-X Nate X
proud Tommi supporter since '97 [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
later,
-X Nate X
proud Tommi supporter since '97 [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
| Subie Gal | 04-30-2001 07:38 AM |
[quote]Actually, Subie Gal, the board software replaces w.t.f. with ***. [/quote]
correct...
because it's deemed inappropriate language...
which means that i should have technically deleted this thread...
so... i am being nice.. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
for now... hehehehe...
j. [url="http://www.subiegal.com"]www.subiegal.com[/url]
correct...
because it's deemed inappropriate language...
which means that i should have technically deleted this thread...
so... i am being nice.. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
for now... hehehehe...
j. [url="http://www.subiegal.com"]www.subiegal.com[/url]
| 2QUICK4U | 04-30-2001 10:20 AM |
I agree as well, Burns is horrible, I hate his attitude, and he is always getting owned by McRae when it counts. Carlos is **edit foul language***
[This message has been edited by Subie Gal (edited April 30, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Subie Gal (edited April 30, 2001).]
| KITTbri | 04-30-2001 11:47 AM |
Burns, BAH! i want Juha back but he got tired of Prodrive and their fetish for Burnsy and Petter, who can't keep a car on the road btw. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
i love tommi!! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/blush.gif[/img]
carlos is a badass too... just don't care for the Focus.
Subaru drivers are becoming as much of prima donnas as the Puegot drivers!
-brian-
"thinks petter couldn't drive out of a paper bag" [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
i love tommi!! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/blush.gif[/img]
carlos is a badass too... just don't care for the Focus.
Subaru drivers are becoming as much of prima donnas as the Puegot drivers!
-brian-
"thinks petter couldn't drive out of a paper bag" [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
| Gambit | 04-30-2001 01:12 PM |
I don't like the current WRC drivers lineup. And yes Burnsie is a cry baby. But since he drives for Subaru I have to accept him. Juha all the way!!!!
| Buck-O | 04-30-2001 01:19 PM |
Oh man...could you imagine a three car team, under Mitsubishi, or Subaru, with McRae, Sainz, and Juha, or Makinen. OMFG!!!! They would be unstoppable. Just think about that for a seconed. WOW!!
Of course the funds required to have those drivers all int eh same line up would be insane. But still...damn...
Im really disappointed that Juha left. But i cant really blame him. Im sure if in the same situation, i would have got up and walked out as well. I personally want to see him back int eh drivers seat. He deserves it.
Of course the funds required to have those drivers all int eh same line up would be insane. But still...damn...
Im really disappointed that Juha left. But i cant really blame him. Im sure if in the same situation, i would have got up and walked out as well. I personally want to see him back int eh drivers seat. He deserves it.
| RA | 04-30-2001 01:44 PM |
Burns is a very good driver but he does whine a lot and doesnt have a good attitude. He comes across to me, as a rather stuck up person who thinks too highly of himself.
Other top drivers such as Carlos Sainz, Juha K and esp Tommi Makinen are very nice and humble. All their success has not gone to their head, which is much more than i can say for some other drivers (read: mcrae and burns)
Other top drivers such as Carlos Sainz, Juha K and esp Tommi Makinen are very nice and humble. All their success has not gone to their head, which is much more than i can say for some other drivers (read: mcrae and burns)
| Thug | 04-30-2001 01:55 PM |
Im not much of a McRae fan either. He's a good driver(better than Burns IMO), but he's even more whiney than Burns. Although this year he has a right to whine with all the problems the Focus is having. But when he was at Subaru all he did was complain about the Pirellis. Funny that Ford runs Pirellis now too. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
| Subie Gal | 04-30-2001 02:06 PM |
whine... gripe... and complain...
the press will show you what they want to...
and that's where you formulate your opinion.. is it not?
of course the press is going to show Colin kicking his car... Luis Moya throwing his helmet through the rear window of their car... and Mr Burns cussing in pure frustration...
that's called NEWS and makes the SHEEP tune in to see the soap opera....
have you met any of them?? then how do you know what they are truly like??? hmmm???
j.
the press will show you what they want to...
and that's where you formulate your opinion.. is it not?
of course the press is going to show Colin kicking his car... Luis Moya throwing his helmet through the rear window of their car... and Mr Burns cussing in pure frustration...
that's called NEWS and makes the SHEEP tune in to see the soap opera....
have you met any of them?? then how do you know what they are truly like??? hmmm???
j.
| KITTbri | 04-30-2001 02:15 PM |
you know what... in my experience a person's true personality and tendencies come out when they are subjected to stress and stressful situations... how that person handles themselves and deals with the situation says alot about that person... knowing you are on TV and kicking your car, busting a window, cussing at reporters, etc... shows me something about an individual's personality... in a relaxed atmosphere ANYONE can be charming and personable...
-brian-
"getting my butt kicked everyday for a year taught me a lot..."
[This message has been edited by AutoBri (edited April 30, 2001).]
-brian-
"getting my butt kicked everyday for a year taught me a lot..."
[This message has been edited by AutoBri (edited April 30, 2001).]
| nmyeti | 04-30-2001 02:20 PM |
of course if your WRC focus let you down like his did, i bet you would be kicking it as well. Heck I wanted to run out and kick it for him. Although that is a bit of a run from here in New Mexico [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
-Nathan
-Nathan
| brandonl | 04-30-2001 02:28 PM |
Subiegal, We're all aware that you have met Richard and you think very highly of him. And thats fine. This post started discussing subarus misfortune so far in the WRC this season, lets not stray too far off topic debating on whos the bigger sissy Colin or Richard (Burns is anyway, Colin has legitmate things to vent about). BTW, whats the difference between writing *** and writing *** everyone knows what you're implying anyway, we're all adult enough in here. Last thing, I've never heard any rally driver oe co-driver talk to spectators the way Richard did in Sweden when he stuffed it. But he's really a nice guy right? After this post Subiegal probably wants to boot me in the kahones.
| Subie Gal | 04-30-2001 02:39 PM |
**yawn**
i never once mentioned that i met him... and i've met more drivers than just him... and they too were very, very nice.... not just to me, but to everyone around them.
all i am saying -
put yourselves in their shoes little boys... how many rally championships have you driven in? yeah... that's what i thought.
pressure... stress... extreme conditions... everyone breaks down... and has moments that are simply not meant to be caught on film and shared w/others... everyone does it...!!
oh why do i bother? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] yep... ok.. i'm done.. this is going no where...
u have your opinion...
and i have mine...
coffee time!
j.
i never once mentioned that i met him... and i've met more drivers than just him... and they too were very, very nice.... not just to me, but to everyone around them.
all i am saying -
put yourselves in their shoes little boys... how many rally championships have you driven in? yeah... that's what i thought.
pressure... stress... extreme conditions... everyone breaks down... and has moments that are simply not meant to be caught on film and shared w/others... everyone does it...!!
oh why do i bother? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] yep... ok.. i'm done.. this is going no where...
u have your opinion...
and i have mine...
coffee time!
j.
| Ryouga | 04-30-2001 02:52 PM |
Hah. You won't have to worry about SubieGal after I get my vid cap card and post a pic of what Burnsie looked like in ... '93. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
I figure she'll be out to kick ME in da cojones after that. Well, maybe not RIGHT after I post it, but after I repost it a few times, then we'll see. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
I figure she'll be out to kick ME in da cojones after that. Well, maybe not RIGHT after I post it, but after I repost it a few times, then we'll see. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
| brandonl | 04-30-2001 03:11 PM |
I know you didnt mention it, but there were pics posted of you shaking his hand so I assume you exchanged some words. And just because he was nice to you, doesnt change the way he acted toward those spectators in Sweden. Everyone involved in rally or any other motorsport at any level are under stress but thats no excuse. Other drivers under as much stress as Richard had to be pushed out by the crowd as well, none of them acted the way he did. And no I havent driven in a WRC... yet (Now thats wishful thinking) Hey why dont you get your buddy Richard to talk to us on here and defend himself. He's a sube fan right? (I bet his daily driver is an EVO) Why not? There are other UK residents on this board. Lets hear what he has to say on the topic...
Brandon
Is it getting hot in here?
Brandon
Is it getting hot in here?
| johnfelstead | 04-30-2001 03:51 PM |
This is getting rather silly. stop it (bit of monte python to lighten the tone [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img])
You dont seriously expect Richard to just post on here do you? Get real.
He did post on scoobynet back in november last year to thank his fans who supported him on the Network Q rally. The guy is seriously busy, way too busy for chit chat on a BBS.
I have met Richard, to do that i dealt with his PA for over 3 weeks trying to arrange a time that we could fit it in, he is that busy. Richard is like many top sports men and women, totally focused on winning. All top sports men are highly strung, the stress they endure is remarkable, you cant expect them all to be the same and be nice when things go wrong.
I am a huge Colin McRae fan, on the 1999 Network Q rally i was at the corner where he crashed out after a massive accident. He was lucky to walk away from that one. I was the guy who forced his door open to get him out. Believe me he was not all sweetness and light at that moment, both Colin and Nicky were totally pi$$ed off with each other and emotions were high.
It would have been very strange for them to be all PR like in those circumstances. The diference between that and what burnsey did was that cameras were there to capture it.
Going on about personalities under stress is pretty pointless and is not what this topic should be about IMHO. It should be about what has gone wrong and what can be done to put it right.
There have been big problems technically with the new car. They did not junk last years car at all, about 80% of the car is transfered from the old model. They have had some major bad supply problems such as the ignition coils that have scuppered the team. There is nothing fundamentaly wrong with the car, team or drivers.
Keep things factual and in perspective and not personal and we may have a worthwhile debate here, going into personalities under stress achieves absolutely nothing.
I would rather see someone who is pasionate about their sport and job who may not be the best PR rather than a slick PR machine that cant get results or shows no real emotion.
All the top drivers are different, they react diferently to stress, they are human, if we were all the same life would be rather boring i think.
I think you guys need to check your history books, Richard is a top competitor, he has been very close to a world championship, driving a car that is not the best out there right now. I am fortunate in that i have seen Richard and Colin progress through the ranks of clubman to world championship status. I have been on events and competed against these guys during their early years, they are very special.
Lets get some perspective on the situation, look at F1 as a reference if you like. McLaren and Ferrari were nowhere until 3 years ago, Williams kicked everyones asses. Then they lost the edge for a while to McLaren and Ferrari. They are now making a serious comeback. Moptorsport goes in cycles like this, Subaru will be back at the front sooner than you think but the competition is very strong out there, it's not easy.
You dont seriously expect Richard to just post on here do you? Get real.
He did post on scoobynet back in november last year to thank his fans who supported him on the Network Q rally. The guy is seriously busy, way too busy for chit chat on a BBS.
I have met Richard, to do that i dealt with his PA for over 3 weeks trying to arrange a time that we could fit it in, he is that busy. Richard is like many top sports men and women, totally focused on winning. All top sports men are highly strung, the stress they endure is remarkable, you cant expect them all to be the same and be nice when things go wrong.
I am a huge Colin McRae fan, on the 1999 Network Q rally i was at the corner where he crashed out after a massive accident. He was lucky to walk away from that one. I was the guy who forced his door open to get him out. Believe me he was not all sweetness and light at that moment, both Colin and Nicky were totally pi$$ed off with each other and emotions were high.
It would have been very strange for them to be all PR like in those circumstances. The diference between that and what burnsey did was that cameras were there to capture it.
Going on about personalities under stress is pretty pointless and is not what this topic should be about IMHO. It should be about what has gone wrong and what can be done to put it right.
There have been big problems technically with the new car. They did not junk last years car at all, about 80% of the car is transfered from the old model. They have had some major bad supply problems such as the ignition coils that have scuppered the team. There is nothing fundamentaly wrong with the car, team or drivers.
Keep things factual and in perspective and not personal and we may have a worthwhile debate here, going into personalities under stress achieves absolutely nothing.
I would rather see someone who is pasionate about their sport and job who may not be the best PR rather than a slick PR machine that cant get results or shows no real emotion.
All the top drivers are different, they react diferently to stress, they are human, if we were all the same life would be rather boring i think.
I think you guys need to check your history books, Richard is a top competitor, he has been very close to a world championship, driving a car that is not the best out there right now. I am fortunate in that i have seen Richard and Colin progress through the ranks of clubman to world championship status. I have been on events and competed against these guys during their early years, they are very special.
Lets get some perspective on the situation, look at F1 as a reference if you like. McLaren and Ferrari were nowhere until 3 years ago, Williams kicked everyones asses. Then they lost the edge for a while to McLaren and Ferrari. They are now making a serious comeback. Moptorsport goes in cycles like this, Subaru will be back at the front sooner than you think but the competition is very strong out there, it's not easy.
| brandonl | 04-30-2001 04:44 PM |
Nothing to do with the drivers? Come on now. Richard put himself in that snow bank in Sweden and Petter rolled all on his own early in the year. Yes, not all of the "bugs" have been worked out the new car, but the car nor the technicians/engineers can be held responsible for Subarus lack of points. So whats the solution? Why dont you tell us John? You seem to have more of an "inside line" so to speak on the issue. And to answer your question No, I didnt really expect Richard to post on this board. It would be cool if he did though, just to show he's interested in what his dearest fans thoughts and concerns are.
Brandon
Brandon
| johnfelstead | 04-30-2001 06:17 PM |
Brandon, you do seem to have rather a strange attitude problem. [quote]So whats the solution? Why dont you tell us John? You seem to have more of an "inside line" so to speak on the issue.[/quote]
My opinion is of equal value to others on this board, no more or less. I do have 18 years worth of rallying experience to fall back on to keep things in perspective however. I have seen this all before, there is nothing new in teams and drivers having a bad run. Rallying is the most complex of sports, it is one of the biggest team sports, if there are problems with any part of the team then the whole system fails. The tecnicians havent done a good enough job so far this year, the drivers have made mistakes also. Criticising in the way that is being done on this thread is pointless and achieves nothing. Maybe if you learned a little about the history of the sport you will see the patterns that evolve and will be able to make judgements using the big picture rather than whats happened in the last few events.
Monte carlo retirements
N. Drivers Cars Reason
1 GRONHOLM-RAUTIAINEN Peugeot 206 WRC MECHANICAL AFTER SS 2
2 AURIOL-GIRAUDET Peugeot 206 WRC MECHANICAL BETWEEN SS 3 ET 4
4 McRAE-GRIST Ford Focus WRC MECHANICAL BETWEEN SS 12 AND 13
5 BURNS-REID Subaru Impreza WRC ENGINE PROBLEM AFTER LEG ONE
6 MARTIN-PARK Subaru Impreza WRC MECHANICAL PROBLEM BEFORE SS 1
9 LIATTI-CASSINA Hyundai Accent WRC OIL LEAK BETWEEN SS 1 AND 2
16 PANIZZI-PANIZZI Peugeot 206 WRC WENT OFF SS 3
18 SOLBERG-MILLS Subaru Impreza WRC WENT OFF SS 5
Sweden retirements
N. Drivers Cars Reason
1 GRONHOLM -RAUTIAINEN Peugeot 206 WRC MECHANICAL AFTER SS 3
2 AURIOL-GIRAUDET Peugeot 206 WRC TRANSMISSION PROBLEM SS 15
7 MAKINEN-MANNISENMAI Mitsubishi Lancer OFF ROAD SS17
10 A.McRAE-SENIOR Hyundai Accent WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS 7
11 SCHWARZ-HIEMER Skoda Octavia WRC OFF ROAD SS 8
20 H.SOLBERG-FLOENE Toyota Corolla WRC OFF ROAD SS 5
21 LAUKKANEN-LINDSTROM Toyota Corolla WRC OFF ROAD SS 6
22 HAGSTROM-GARDEMEISTER Toyota Corolla WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS 11
25 PAASONEN-KAPANEN Ford Focus WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS 16
Portugal retirements
N. Drivers Cars Reason
4 McRAE-GRIST Ford Focus RS WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS 8
6 SOLBERG-MILLS Subaru Impreza WRC SUSPENSION SS 8
8 LOIX-SMEETS Mitsubishi Carisma CLUTCH SS 15
11 SCHWARZ-HIEMER Skoda Octavia WRC CLUTCH PROBLEM SS2
12 THIRY-PREVOT Skoda Octavia WRC ELECTRICAL FAILURE
16 ROVANPERA-PIETILAINEN Peugeot 206 WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS13
18 MARTIN-PARK Subaru Impreza WRC OFF ROAD SS 15
19 ARAI-MACNEALL Subaru Impreza WRC OFF ROAD SS 3
21 LUNDGAARD-ANKER Toyota Corolla WRC MECANICAL SS 13
23 LOPES-LISBOA Peugeot 206 WRC OFF ROAD SS 4
catalunya retirements
N. Drivers Cars Reason
1 GRÖNHOLM-RAUTIAINEN Peugeot 206 WRC BROKEN WHEEL SS 5
4 McRAE-GRIST Ford Focus WRC ENGINE STOPPE START SS 6
6 SOLBERG-MILLS Subaru Impreza WRC OFF ROAD SS 3
9 LIATTI-CASSINA HyundaiI Accent WRC BRAKES PROBLEMS AFTER SS13
11 SCHWARZ-HIEMER Skoda Octavia WRC STEERING PROBLEM SS 11
15 PURAS-MARTI Citroen Xsara WRC LACK OF FUEL PRESSURE AFTER SS 11
18 MARTIN-PARK Subaru Impreza WRC EXCLUDING DELAYS AFTER SS 15
21 CANELLAS-SANCHIS Seat Cordoba WRC OFF ROAD SS9
23 PRINCEN-COLEBUNDERS Peugeot 206 WRC MECHANICAL SS 10
As you can see all the teams are having mechanical problems.
Also you need to bear in mind Solberg is inexperienced and trying to find his pace, Subaru are well aware that he is likely to crash out at this stage in his career.
i would like to remind you of how the championships ended last year, read it then try telling me Burns isnt a class driver.
P. DRIVERS 2000 championship
1 Marcus GRONHOLM (FIN) 65 0 10 0 6 2 6 0 10 10 0 2 3 10 6
2 Richard BURNS (GB) 60 0 2 10 10 6 10 0 0 0 3 3 0 6 10
3 Carlos SAINZ (E) 46 6 0 3 4 4 0 6 4 0 10 4 2 0 3
4 Colin McRAE (GB) 43 0 4 0 0 10 0 10 6 6 6 0 1 0 0
5 Tommi MAKINEN (FIN) 36 10 6 0 0 3 4 0 0 3 2 0 4 0 4
6 François DELECOUR (F) 24 0 0 - 2 0 0 0 0 1 4 6 6 4 1
7 Gilles PANIZZI (F) 21 0 - 0 - 1 - - - - - 10 10 0 0
8 Juha KANKKUNEN (FIN) 20 4 1 6 0 0 3 4 0 0 0 - - 0 2
9 Harri ROVANPERA (FIN) 7 - 0 - 3 - - - - 4 - - - - 0
10 Petter SOLBERG (NOR) 6 - - 2 0 0 1 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
11 Kenneth ERIKSSON (S) 5 - 0 - 0 0 0 0 2 0 - 0 0 3 0
12 Didier AURIOL(F) 4 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
13 Toni GARDEMEISTER (FIN) 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
14 Toshihiro ARAI (J) 4 - - 1 - 0 - 3 0 - 0 - - 0 0
15 Freddy LOIX (B) 4 1 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
16 Thomas RADSTROM (S) 3 - 3 - 0 - - - - - - - - - -
17 Bruno THIRY (B) 2 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - -
18 Armin SCHWARZ (D) 2 0 - 0 0 0 - 2 - - 0 - 0 - 0
19 Sebastian LINDHOLM (FIN) 2 - - - - - - - - 2 - - 0 - 0
20 Tapio LAUKKANEN (FIN) 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 0
21 Abdullah BAKASHAB (SA) 1 - 0 - 0 0 - 1 - 0 0 - 0 - -
22 Possum BOURNE (NZ) 1 - - - - - - - 1 - - - - - -
23 Markko MARTIN (EST) 1 - - - 0 0 - 0 - 0 1 - 0 - 0
24 Piero LIATTI (I) 1 - - - - - - - - - - 1 0 - -
i am off to bed so wont respond till tomorow, spend some time thinking about what it takes to win a WRC event. It's one of the most dificult things to achieve in world sports, only talented people can achieve this.
My opinion is of equal value to others on this board, no more or less. I do have 18 years worth of rallying experience to fall back on to keep things in perspective however. I have seen this all before, there is nothing new in teams and drivers having a bad run. Rallying is the most complex of sports, it is one of the biggest team sports, if there are problems with any part of the team then the whole system fails. The tecnicians havent done a good enough job so far this year, the drivers have made mistakes also. Criticising in the way that is being done on this thread is pointless and achieves nothing. Maybe if you learned a little about the history of the sport you will see the patterns that evolve and will be able to make judgements using the big picture rather than whats happened in the last few events.
Monte carlo retirements
N. Drivers Cars Reason
1 GRONHOLM-RAUTIAINEN Peugeot 206 WRC MECHANICAL AFTER SS 2
2 AURIOL-GIRAUDET Peugeot 206 WRC MECHANICAL BETWEEN SS 3 ET 4
4 McRAE-GRIST Ford Focus WRC MECHANICAL BETWEEN SS 12 AND 13
5 BURNS-REID Subaru Impreza WRC ENGINE PROBLEM AFTER LEG ONE
6 MARTIN-PARK Subaru Impreza WRC MECHANICAL PROBLEM BEFORE SS 1
9 LIATTI-CASSINA Hyundai Accent WRC OIL LEAK BETWEEN SS 1 AND 2
16 PANIZZI-PANIZZI Peugeot 206 WRC WENT OFF SS 3
18 SOLBERG-MILLS Subaru Impreza WRC WENT OFF SS 5
Sweden retirements
N. Drivers Cars Reason
1 GRONHOLM -RAUTIAINEN Peugeot 206 WRC MECHANICAL AFTER SS 3
2 AURIOL-GIRAUDET Peugeot 206 WRC TRANSMISSION PROBLEM SS 15
7 MAKINEN-MANNISENMAI Mitsubishi Lancer OFF ROAD SS17
10 A.McRAE-SENIOR Hyundai Accent WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS 7
11 SCHWARZ-HIEMER Skoda Octavia WRC OFF ROAD SS 8
20 H.SOLBERG-FLOENE Toyota Corolla WRC OFF ROAD SS 5
21 LAUKKANEN-LINDSTROM Toyota Corolla WRC OFF ROAD SS 6
22 HAGSTROM-GARDEMEISTER Toyota Corolla WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS 11
25 PAASONEN-KAPANEN Ford Focus WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS 16
Portugal retirements
N. Drivers Cars Reason
4 McRAE-GRIST Ford Focus RS WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS 8
6 SOLBERG-MILLS Subaru Impreza WRC SUSPENSION SS 8
8 LOIX-SMEETS Mitsubishi Carisma CLUTCH SS 15
11 SCHWARZ-HIEMER Skoda Octavia WRC CLUTCH PROBLEM SS2
12 THIRY-PREVOT Skoda Octavia WRC ELECTRICAL FAILURE
16 ROVANPERA-PIETILAINEN Peugeot 206 WRC ENGINE FAILURE SS13
18 MARTIN-PARK Subaru Impreza WRC OFF ROAD SS 15
19 ARAI-MACNEALL Subaru Impreza WRC OFF ROAD SS 3
21 LUNDGAARD-ANKER Toyota Corolla WRC MECANICAL SS 13
23 LOPES-LISBOA Peugeot 206 WRC OFF ROAD SS 4
catalunya retirements
N. Drivers Cars Reason
1 GRÖNHOLM-RAUTIAINEN Peugeot 206 WRC BROKEN WHEEL SS 5
4 McRAE-GRIST Ford Focus WRC ENGINE STOPPE START SS 6
6 SOLBERG-MILLS Subaru Impreza WRC OFF ROAD SS 3
9 LIATTI-CASSINA HyundaiI Accent WRC BRAKES PROBLEMS AFTER SS13
11 SCHWARZ-HIEMER Skoda Octavia WRC STEERING PROBLEM SS 11
15 PURAS-MARTI Citroen Xsara WRC LACK OF FUEL PRESSURE AFTER SS 11
18 MARTIN-PARK Subaru Impreza WRC EXCLUDING DELAYS AFTER SS 15
21 CANELLAS-SANCHIS Seat Cordoba WRC OFF ROAD SS9
23 PRINCEN-COLEBUNDERS Peugeot 206 WRC MECHANICAL SS 10
As you can see all the teams are having mechanical problems.
Also you need to bear in mind Solberg is inexperienced and trying to find his pace, Subaru are well aware that he is likely to crash out at this stage in his career.
i would like to remind you of how the championships ended last year, read it then try telling me Burns isnt a class driver.
P. DRIVERS 2000 championship
1 Marcus GRONHOLM (FIN) 65 0 10 0 6 2 6 0 10 10 0 2 3 10 6
2 Richard BURNS (GB) 60 0 2 10 10 6 10 0 0 0 3 3 0 6 10
3 Carlos SAINZ (E) 46 6 0 3 4 4 0 6 4 0 10 4 2 0 3
4 Colin McRAE (GB) 43 0 4 0 0 10 0 10 6 6 6 0 1 0 0
5 Tommi MAKINEN (FIN) 36 10 6 0 0 3 4 0 0 3 2 0 4 0 4
6 François DELECOUR (F) 24 0 0 - 2 0 0 0 0 1 4 6 6 4 1
7 Gilles PANIZZI (F) 21 0 - 0 - 1 - - - - - 10 10 0 0
8 Juha KANKKUNEN (FIN) 20 4 1 6 0 0 3 4 0 0 0 - - 0 2
9 Harri ROVANPERA (FIN) 7 - 0 - 3 - - - - 4 - - - - 0
10 Petter SOLBERG (NOR) 6 - - 2 0 0 1 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
11 Kenneth ERIKSSON (S) 5 - 0 - 0 0 0 0 2 0 - 0 0 3 0
12 Didier AURIOL(F) 4 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
13 Toni GARDEMEISTER (FIN) 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
14 Toshihiro ARAI (J) 4 - - 1 - 0 - 3 0 - 0 - - 0 0
15 Freddy LOIX (B) 4 1 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
16 Thomas RADSTROM (S) 3 - 3 - 0 - - - - - - - - - -
17 Bruno THIRY (B) 2 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - -
18 Armin SCHWARZ (D) 2 0 - 0 0 0 - 2 - - 0 - 0 - 0
19 Sebastian LINDHOLM (FIN) 2 - - - - - - - - 2 - - 0 - 0
20 Tapio LAUKKANEN (FIN) 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 0
21 Abdullah BAKASHAB (SA) 1 - 0 - 0 0 - 1 - 0 0 - 0 - -
22 Possum BOURNE (NZ) 1 - - - - - - - 1 - - - - - -
23 Markko MARTIN (EST) 1 - - - 0 0 - 0 - 0 1 - 0 - 0
24 Piero LIATTI (I) 1 - - - - - - - - - - 1 0 - -
i am off to bed so wont respond till tomorow, spend some time thinking about what it takes to win a WRC event. It's one of the most dificult things to achieve in world sports, only talented people can achieve this.
| brandonl | 04-30-2001 09:58 PM |
Ease up Johnny boy I'm just bustin your stones. Its too early in the season to tell what will happen and none of us have the insight to make predictions. That was some detailed info you spewed out. What happened to Subiegal? I guess she got upset about what we were all saying about Richard. So basically this post may never end... Some will say Burns is the best others will say different. There is no right answer here. What ever problems Subaru/Prodrive are having will work themselves out eventually. Nothing anyone can say and no amount of WRC historical knowledge can fix it. Only time will tell.
Brandon
Brandon
| brandonl | 05-01-2001 12:57 AM |
Dont get me wrong here I'm a subie fan like everyone else, but I think that simply Burns isnt the the driver that McRae, Makkinen or Sainz are. Call it experience or talent but he doesnt have what they do. If Colin or Carlos were still driving a sube, we'd be at the top of manufacturers points without question. Thats just my opinion... As far as mechanical troubles go, Richards problems thus far are NOTHING compared to Colins problems.
Just my .02
Just my .02
| KITTbri | 05-01-2001 01:18 PM |
John,
Let's move off the whole attitude thing. My biggest beef with Prodrive is the "apparent" way they have treated Juha. Some of which is "reported" to be an issue with Burns. (donning asbestos suit [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] ). Juha is one of the best rally drivers ever… and his numbers do back it up. I don't understand why they bring out new car, dump the experience needed for developing a new platform, and put in an untested rookie, who yes does have talent just not discernment… that is bred by experience… namely Juha's.
Come back at that you craazy, anglish, kaniggit! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
-brian-
"whose mother smelled like elderberries"
Let's move off the whole attitude thing. My biggest beef with Prodrive is the "apparent" way they have treated Juha. Some of which is "reported" to be an issue with Burns. (donning asbestos suit [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] ). Juha is one of the best rally drivers ever… and his numbers do back it up. I don't understand why they bring out new car, dump the experience needed for developing a new platform, and put in an untested rookie, who yes does have talent just not discernment… that is bred by experience… namely Juha's.
Come back at that you craazy, anglish, kaniggit! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
-brian-
"whose mother smelled like elderberries"
| johnfelstead | 05-01-2001 02:06 PM |
so your father was a hampster was he? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] LOL
Atlanta huh? i lived there once, cold there init? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Hmmm, not sure on the kankunen situation, looking at his results last year it was obvious to me he wasnt pushing like he used to. He has an impecable record and is a fantastic driver and human being, however i dont think he now posseses the level of comitment required to stay at the top in the WRC.
I think you may have a valid point re testing, it's always good to have someone of huge experience to help steer the team in the right direction.
However, Burns is no beginer now, he has enough experience to lead the team, both in testing and on the events. He has the speed, i believe his downfall last year was not knowing when to stop fighting for the win and settling for the points, he deserved the championship on speed, he just needed to learn what it takes to win over the long haul.
I dont think there are fundementatl issues at prodrive, i think its just been a very unlucky start to the season, lots of things have gone wrong. I mean, Peugeot had a disasterous monte in 2000 due to a simple design error on the battery earth cable. It doesnt take much to stop these cars from working. Subaru this year were hit with a bad batch of ignition coils. Richard has also had to contend with a semi auto box that had a mind of its own. These things happen.
Give it time, the ingredients are there.
Atlanta huh? i lived there once, cold there init? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Hmmm, not sure on the kankunen situation, looking at his results last year it was obvious to me he wasnt pushing like he used to. He has an impecable record and is a fantastic driver and human being, however i dont think he now posseses the level of comitment required to stay at the top in the WRC.
I think you may have a valid point re testing, it's always good to have someone of huge experience to help steer the team in the right direction.
However, Burns is no beginer now, he has enough experience to lead the team, both in testing and on the events. He has the speed, i believe his downfall last year was not knowing when to stop fighting for the win and settling for the points, he deserved the championship on speed, he just needed to learn what it takes to win over the long haul.
I dont think there are fundementatl issues at prodrive, i think its just been a very unlucky start to the season, lots of things have gone wrong. I mean, Peugeot had a disasterous monte in 2000 due to a simple design error on the battery earth cable. It doesnt take much to stop these cars from working. Subaru this year were hit with a bad batch of ignition coils. Richard has also had to contend with a semi auto box that had a mind of its own. These things happen.
Give it time, the ingredients are there.
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