| Fred Zaplitny | 08-01-2002 01:14 AM |
Juan Pablo Montoya, 2003 World Drivers Champion
This is my prediction. Anyone disagree?
| jonesi | 08-01-2002 02:21 AM |
I do, Montoya has the talent to win the championship, and I don't think Schumacher is trying as hard as he used to. However Montoya is not enough better to overcome Ferrari's edge in engine, chassis, budget, tires, and teammate. (If Ralf is leading a race to you think he would pull over and let Montoya by?) Montoya maybe a possibly in '04 but not in '03, unless Ferrari has some big problems with their new engine. I think Schumacher will get his sixth championship, and if I'm wrong, I'll be happily surprised ;-)
Bill
Bill
| pio!pio! | 08-01-2002 02:36 AM |
[url]http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/020801025107.shtml[/url]
oing???
oing???
| cvalle-sd | 08-01-2002 03:58 AM |
He better be - or I'm going to quit watching. I hope the constructors break away and start something fresh. F1 is a boring, foregone conclusion...SCHUEY WINS :sleep:
| HoRo1 | 08-01-2002 11:01 AM |
At this stage, it all depends on his car, but probably not. Schumacher for #6 next year, and then it's time to hang up the steering wheel.
| RyanC | 08-01-2002 11:10 AM |
Unless Schumacher retires I don't see it happening. Juan Taco needs to learn how to keep his engine together (altho he seems to be doing better with that this year compared to last), but even if Shuey steps down the Williams needs more to keep up with the Ferrari. JPM wasn't doing squat last race, and he had plenty of open track to run clean laps. He's got to transcend to the higher level where Schumacher is, where he is trying hard but makes it look easy. It's like in the Matrix when Neo had to give in to his power to beat the guy at the end; if you think about it, it ain't gonna happen; you just have to do it. I do hope, though, if he does win he stops being such a whiny biatch; maybe it is just his lack of english sKiLlZ but every interview he gives makes me wanna punch him in the dick 'cause he sounds like a little brat who's toys were taken away from him :D
| Patrick Olsen | 08-01-2002 11:33 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by pio!pio! [/i]
[B][url]http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/020801025107.shtml[/url]
oing??? [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sure the irrationally diehard NASCAR-haters will disagree with me, but I think that's pretty cool. I'll have to remember to watch that weekend.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[B][url]http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/020801025107.shtml[/url]
oing??? [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sure the irrationally diehard NASCAR-haters will disagree with me, but I think that's pretty cool. I'll have to remember to watch that weekend.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| gtguy | 08-01-2002 12:00 PM |
JPM is keeping his engines together because BMW have dialed back the mojo by an unspecified number of RPMs, or go goeth the rumor.
Schumacher will win next year as well. Not only that, but McLaren will be better than Williams next year. Looking at the two performance curves, both teams are headed in different directions.
Wrapping up the championship means that Ferrari can test stuff for next year's race car in actual racing conditions, as opposed to the theoretical world of wind tunnels, test tracks and CAD programs. The F2003 will be a formidable package, and Schumacher won't lose much in the way of skill and hunger. He's matched Fangio's championship tallies...he wants to surpass this record.
Kevin
Schumacher will win next year as well. Not only that, but McLaren will be better than Williams next year. Looking at the two performance curves, both teams are headed in different directions.
Wrapping up the championship means that Ferrari can test stuff for next year's race car in actual racing conditions, as opposed to the theoretical world of wind tunnels, test tracks and CAD programs. The F2003 will be a formidable package, and Schumacher won't lose much in the way of skill and hunger. He's matched Fangio's championship tallies...he wants to surpass this record.
Kevin
| RyanC | 08-01-2002 01:01 PM |
[QUOTE]JPM is keeping his engines together because BMW have dialed back the mojo by an unspecified number of RPMs, or go goeth the rumor.[/QUOTE]
Was his engine revving higher than Ralfs or was Ralf just better at not winding it out till death? I wonder if I could swap one of those bad boys into the front of das Coupe... mmmm, M Power! ;)
Was his engine revving higher than Ralfs or was Ralf just better at not winding it out till death? I wonder if I could swap one of those bad boys into the front of das Coupe... mmmm, M Power! ;)
| OnTheGas | 08-01-2002 03:19 PM |
Juan's Answer to RyanC
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RyanC [/i]
[B]Was his engine revving higher than Ralfs or was Ralf just better at not winding it out till death?[/B][/QUOTE]RyanC, here is what Juan said about the revs he was running at the German GP...[quote][i]Juan Pablo Montoya[/i]
[b]The fight with Raikkonen was very entertaining. After he passed me at the start I had a few chances to overtake him, but it was too risky and I preferred waiting. Then the team told me I could make it and pumped my revs up, which gave me some additional power. I had good acceleration and Raikkinen did as well but then he made a mistake and I got past.[/b][/quote]Source, [url]http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=101029&FS=F1[/url]
From the same press release...[quote][i]Mario Theissen (BMW Motorsport Director)[/i]
[b]To enable Juan to get past Kimi Raikkonen on lap 11 we gave him more revs for a while.[/b][/quote][quote][i]Originally posted by RyanC [/i]
[b]Juan Taco needs to learn how to keep his engine together...[/b][/quote]Wrong... Mario Theissen's (BMW Motorsport Director) is responsible to keep Juan's beemer together. Juan is driving it w/a computerized, semi-automatic tranny...[quote][i]Originally posted by RyanC [/i]
[b]JPM wasn't doing squat last race[/b][/quote]Juan, Ralf, and Michael were running nearly the same pace, so the race was pretty well won by Michael on Saturday's qualifying, and in the first corner...
[B]Was his engine revving higher than Ralfs or was Ralf just better at not winding it out till death?[/B][/QUOTE]RyanC, here is what Juan said about the revs he was running at the German GP...[quote][i]Juan Pablo Montoya[/i]
[b]The fight with Raikkonen was very entertaining. After he passed me at the start I had a few chances to overtake him, but it was too risky and I preferred waiting. Then the team told me I could make it and pumped my revs up, which gave me some additional power. I had good acceleration and Raikkinen did as well but then he made a mistake and I got past.[/b][/quote]Source, [url]http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=101029&FS=F1[/url]
From the same press release...[quote][i]Mario Theissen (BMW Motorsport Director)[/i]
[b]To enable Juan to get past Kimi Raikkonen on lap 11 we gave him more revs for a while.[/b][/quote][quote][i]Originally posted by RyanC [/i]
[b]Juan Taco needs to learn how to keep his engine together...[/b][/quote]Wrong... Mario Theissen's (BMW Motorsport Director) is responsible to keep Juan's beemer together. Juan is driving it w/a computerized, semi-automatic tranny...[quote][i]Originally posted by RyanC [/i]
[b]JPM wasn't doing squat last race[/b][/quote]Juan, Ralf, and Michael were running nearly the same pace, so the race was pretty well won by Michael on Saturday's qualifying, and in the first corner...
| WRXnTX | 08-01-2002 03:33 PM |
Re: Juan's Answer to RyanC
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[Juan, Ralf, and Michael were running nearly the same pace, so the race was pretty well won by Michael on Saturday's qualifying, and in the first corner... [/B][/QUOTE]
Did you watch the race? JPM was down on the lap times and Ferrari almost didn't win it. Raikkonen ran wide with 6 laps to go. That was the saving grace.
[Juan, Ralf, and Michael were running nearly the same pace, so the race was pretty well won by Michael on Saturday's qualifying, and in the first corner... [/B][/QUOTE]
Did you watch the race? JPM was down on the lap times and Ferrari almost didn't win it. Raikkonen ran wide with 6 laps to go. That was the saving grace.
| OnTheGas | 08-01-2002 03:47 PM |
The Newey Factor
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gtguy [/i]
[B]McLaren will be better than Williams next year. Looking at the two performance curves, both teams are headed in different directions.[/B][/QUOTE]Kevin - I think you're spot on... Adrian Newey's chassis next year should be good, hopefully very good, and I think that McLarens few successes this year can be attributed to McLaren's tuning of their chassis to the tires and track. It was very interesting at Nurburgring and Magny-Cours to see how poorly the Williams chassis was getting the power down, and chewing up their rear tires, whereas McLaren performed better, and were very tire friendly in comparison to Williams.
McLaren Mercedes weakness next season is probably Ilmor, (as it was this season). Since Paul Morgan (co-founder of Ilmor w/Mario Illien) died in 2001, it may have effected Ilmor negatively, as Paul Morgan provided a stabilizing influence on the engineers. Rumor has it that Mercedes may become more involved in the development of the motor next season.
[B]McLaren will be better than Williams next year. Looking at the two performance curves, both teams are headed in different directions.[/B][/QUOTE]Kevin - I think you're spot on... Adrian Newey's chassis next year should be good, hopefully very good, and I think that McLarens few successes this year can be attributed to McLaren's tuning of their chassis to the tires and track. It was very interesting at Nurburgring and Magny-Cours to see how poorly the Williams chassis was getting the power down, and chewing up their rear tires, whereas McLaren performed better, and were very tire friendly in comparison to Williams.
McLaren Mercedes weakness next season is probably Ilmor, (as it was this season). Since Paul Morgan (co-founder of Ilmor w/Mario Illien) died in 2001, it may have effected Ilmor negatively, as Paul Morgan provided a stabilizing influence on the engineers. Rumor has it that Mercedes may become more involved in the development of the motor next season.
| OnTheGas | 08-01-2002 04:37 PM |
Re: Re: Juan's Answer to RyanC
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRXnTX [/i]
[B]JPM was down on the lap times and Ferrari almost didn't win it. Raikkonen ran wide with 6 laps to go. That was the saving grace. [/B][/QUOTE]I'm sorry... I was discussing the German GP at the new Hockenheim track on July 28th. Michael led from the pole, and was chased most of the race by his brother. Kimi was +1 sec/lap slower than the Williams and Ferrari.
Are you refering to the French GP at Magny-Cours on July 21st, which Kimi nearly won?
[B]JPM was down on the lap times and Ferrari almost didn't win it. Raikkonen ran wide with 6 laps to go. That was the saving grace. [/B][/QUOTE]I'm sorry... I was discussing the German GP at the new Hockenheim track on July 28th. Michael led from the pole, and was chased most of the race by his brother. Kimi was +1 sec/lap slower than the Williams and Ferrari.
Are you refering to the French GP at Magny-Cours on July 21st, which Kimi nearly won?
| RyanC | 08-01-2002 05:15 PM |
Re: Juan's Answer to RyanC
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
From the same press release...Wrong... Mario Theissen's (BMW Motorsport Director) is responsible to keep Juan's beemer together. Juan is driving it w/a computerized, semi-automatic tranny...
[/QUOTE]
I was specifically referring to all the times he's done blown up since starting at Williams, when Ralf ran the same races in the same car, and didn't blow up.
[QUOTE]
Juan, Ralf, and Michael were running nearly the same pace, so the race was pretty well won by Michael on Saturday's qualifying, and in the first corner... [/QUOTE]
Actually, I thought the race was won by Schumacher outdriving everyone else. My comment was geared towards the fact that besides the duel with Kimi I thought Montoya didn't impress me much. He didn't pick up any appreciable time on Schuey once he got past Kimi; in fact, he wasn't much faster (if at all) than Ralf, who was having engine issues.
From the same press release...Wrong... Mario Theissen's (BMW Motorsport Director) is responsible to keep Juan's beemer together. Juan is driving it w/a computerized, semi-automatic tranny...
[/QUOTE]
I was specifically referring to all the times he's done blown up since starting at Williams, when Ralf ran the same races in the same car, and didn't blow up.
[QUOTE]
Juan, Ralf, and Michael were running nearly the same pace, so the race was pretty well won by Michael on Saturday's qualifying, and in the first corner... [/QUOTE]
Actually, I thought the race was won by Schumacher outdriving everyone else. My comment was geared towards the fact that besides the duel with Kimi I thought Montoya didn't impress me much. He didn't pick up any appreciable time on Schuey once he got past Kimi; in fact, he wasn't much faster (if at all) than Ralf, who was having engine issues.
| Lightning Jack | 08-01-2002 07:47 PM |
As long as Schumacher is there Montoya will not
| pio!pio! | 08-01-2002 08:21 PM |
JPM "I see Rubens as my main rival. He has the better car and I will have to fight hard against him in these races. Then there's Ralf - but he doesn't worry me."
HAHAHA......referring to the comment about Ralf
HAHAHA......referring to the comment about Ralf
| OnTheGas | 08-01-2002 08:34 PM |
Race Paces, Balks, Pneumatics, and Tires
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RyanC [/i]
[B]I was specifically referring to all the times he's done blown up since starting at Williams, when Ralf ran the same races in the same car, and didn't blow up.[/B][/QUOTE]Yeah, so was I. Perhaps I'm not understanding you. Are you implying that the mistakes of F1 drivers are the cause of blown engines?
I'm thinking that programable (sp?) semi-auto trannys mean that it is not likely that a driver's mistake is going to blow up a motor, because he can't mis-shift, or over-rev as easily. It was interesting that BMW and Juan both said that BMW temporarily gave Juan more revs to power around Kimi in the German GP.[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RyanC [/i]
[B]Actually, I thought the race was won by Schumacher outdriving everyone else. My comment was geared towards the fact that besides the duel with Kimi I thought Montoya didn't impress me much. He didn't pick up any appreciable time on Schuey once he got past Kimi; in fact, he wasn't much faster (if at all) than Ralf, who was having engine issues. [/B][/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree with you... Michael drove a great race, particularly on his 2nd stint. But it would have been very difficult if he were to try to win coming from behind because his car was rough on its tires, and he was using them up.
Regarding Montoya's pace, you're right, he was as fast, but not faster than the 2 Ferraris and Ralf. I wonder if we would have seen a different race if Juan had put himself on the front row on Saturday, instead back in 4th. Race paces will change in the heat of battle...
Ralf's engine problem did not effect his pace. The problem was only that his pneumatic valve system was losing pressure, and so as a safety measure, they re-charged the system. Ralf set four of the faster laps of the race immediately before coming in to get his pneumatics recharged.
Ralf lost his time when he was held up by Trulli, (along w/some corresponding understeer at this same time) which cost him ~5 secs. Then he lost time being held up by JV's dying car in the pits on his 2nd stop (cost him ~ 2.5 secs).
[B]I was specifically referring to all the times he's done blown up since starting at Williams, when Ralf ran the same races in the same car, and didn't blow up.[/B][/QUOTE]Yeah, so was I. Perhaps I'm not understanding you. Are you implying that the mistakes of F1 drivers are the cause of blown engines?
I'm thinking that programable (sp?) semi-auto trannys mean that it is not likely that a driver's mistake is going to blow up a motor, because he can't mis-shift, or over-rev as easily. It was interesting that BMW and Juan both said that BMW temporarily gave Juan more revs to power around Kimi in the German GP.[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RyanC [/i]
[B]Actually, I thought the race was won by Schumacher outdriving everyone else. My comment was geared towards the fact that besides the duel with Kimi I thought Montoya didn't impress me much. He didn't pick up any appreciable time on Schuey once he got past Kimi; in fact, he wasn't much faster (if at all) than Ralf, who was having engine issues. [/B][/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree with you... Michael drove a great race, particularly on his 2nd stint. But it would have been very difficult if he were to try to win coming from behind because his car was rough on its tires, and he was using them up.
Regarding Montoya's pace, you're right, he was as fast, but not faster than the 2 Ferraris and Ralf. I wonder if we would have seen a different race if Juan had put himself on the front row on Saturday, instead back in 4th. Race paces will change in the heat of battle...
Ralf's engine problem did not effect his pace. The problem was only that his pneumatic valve system was losing pressure, and so as a safety measure, they re-charged the system. Ralf set four of the faster laps of the race immediately before coming in to get his pneumatics recharged.
Ralf lost his time when he was held up by Trulli, (along w/some corresponding understeer at this same time) which cost him ~5 secs. Then he lost time being held up by JV's dying car in the pits on his 2nd stop (cost him ~ 2.5 secs).
| Ferg | 08-02-2002 10:40 AM |
I've seen Montoya drive in person in Champ Cars (anyone remember the neat little spin he had during the restart in Portland in 1999?) and I have watched his F3 and F3000 races, some of which he won by a lap.....F3000 is a spec series.
When Montoya raced at the short ovals during hs first year, ABC split the screen between whoever was leading the race at the time, and JPM trying to get his lap back. The man was in a constant state of oversteer around a short oval.
He absolutely WALKED the 2000 Indy 500, it was just comical. Had it been a caution-free race he would have finished three laps ahead of second place.....
Is Montoya faster than Shcumacher? Yes (so was Mika). Is he as complete a driver as Schu? No.
Five straight polls in an inferior machine speak to his outright speed, but to be champion you have to be there at the finish, and he's still learning that. As does every driver on the grid.
I rate Montoya right up there with Gilles Villveuve, Ronnie Peterson, Pedro Rodriguez, and Stirling Moss. All amazing drivers who never won the world championship. I hope that JPM gets the title.
2004 is my prediction.
Ferg
When Montoya raced at the short ovals during hs first year, ABC split the screen between whoever was leading the race at the time, and JPM trying to get his lap back. The man was in a constant state of oversteer around a short oval.
He absolutely WALKED the 2000 Indy 500, it was just comical. Had it been a caution-free race he would have finished three laps ahead of second place.....
Is Montoya faster than Shcumacher? Yes (so was Mika). Is he as complete a driver as Schu? No.
Five straight polls in an inferior machine speak to his outright speed, but to be champion you have to be there at the finish, and he's still learning that. As does every driver on the grid.
I rate Montoya right up there with Gilles Villveuve, Ronnie Peterson, Pedro Rodriguez, and Stirling Moss. All amazing drivers who never won the world championship. I hope that JPM gets the title.
2004 is my prediction.
Ferg
| RyanC | 08-02-2002 10:54 AM |
[QUOTE]Yeah, so was I. Perhaps I'm not understanding you. Are you implying that the mistakes of F1 drivers are the cause of blown engines?[/QUOTE]
Onthegas, I'm pretty much saying exactly that, although mistake may be more appropriately replaced with driving style. When two guys have the same car/same motor, and one guys motor blows up more often than the other guys, you have to wonder if it is the car or the driver. I think JPM is a lot more aggressive than Ralfie, and I think that has something to do with the failures. It's one thing to be able to drive faster than everyone else, but if you can't finish the race it doesn't do you any good. Maybe Montoya had bad luck in engines, like Rubens seems to have bad luck with pit stops, but I'm less inclined to believe that.
Onthegas, I'm pretty much saying exactly that, although mistake may be more appropriately replaced with driving style. When two guys have the same car/same motor, and one guys motor blows up more often than the other guys, you have to wonder if it is the car or the driver. I think JPM is a lot more aggressive than Ralfie, and I think that has something to do with the failures. It's one thing to be able to drive faster than everyone else, but if you can't finish the race it doesn't do you any good. Maybe Montoya had bad luck in engines, like Rubens seems to have bad luck with pit stops, but I'm less inclined to believe that.
| OAKOS Automotive | 08-02-2002 11:51 AM |
F1 cars do have semi-auto gearboxes and automatic upshifts but that can't compensate for the fact that most of the drivers left foot brake. Left foot braking introduces the possiblity that the driver will use the brake and the gas at the same time. I have read a couple of interviews with Barrichello where he stated that when he left foot brakes his engine temps were ~10° C hotter and his fuel economy goes down. This could be the difference between two teammates w/ exactly the same machinery having different "luck" keeping the engine together.
Sincerely,
Dave Kearney
Sincerely,
Dave Kearney
| Ferg | 08-02-2002 02:11 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Oakos Automotive [/i]
[B] most of the drivers left foot brake This could be the difference between two teammates w/ exactly the same machinery having different "luck" keeping the engine together.[/B][/QUOTE]
hmmm.......seems reasonable, but both Montoya and R. Schumacher are left foot brakers. I really do think it's just a "luck" issue in this case.
When Montoya's engine blew during the 2001 German Grand Prix (which he was dominating) Ralf came out and said basically that JPM was harder on his engine than himself.....
Patrick Head, a man not known for ever being anything other than brutally honest about his drivers called this rubbish. I believe him.
Ferg
[B] most of the drivers left foot brake This could be the difference between two teammates w/ exactly the same machinery having different "luck" keeping the engine together.[/B][/QUOTE]
hmmm.......seems reasonable, but both Montoya and R. Schumacher are left foot brakers. I really do think it's just a "luck" issue in this case.
When Montoya's engine blew during the 2001 German Grand Prix (which he was dominating) Ralf came out and said basically that JPM was harder on his engine than himself.....
Patrick Head, a man not known for ever being anything other than brutally honest about his drivers called this rubbish. I believe him.
Ferg
| johnfelstead | 08-02-2002 02:29 PM |
:lol:
An F1 driver cant blow his own engine up, even if he wanted to. I know of only one incident in recent times where an F1 driver did blow his own engine up, That was Jenson Button, when he acidentaly pressed the Neutral button at full speed and full throttle when he was going for the radio. The software has been changed so if he did that it wouldnt blow again. oops. :D
In answer to the original question, if his car is good enough yes, if it isnt, no. It's that simple.
Both Williams and McLaren have gone on record this week saying they are abandoning their phylosophy of evolution for next years cars, they are building radically diferent cars for 2003. They will either fight a better fight or fall flat on their asses. Should be fun finding out! :D
An F1 driver cant blow his own engine up, even if he wanted to. I know of only one incident in recent times where an F1 driver did blow his own engine up, That was Jenson Button, when he acidentaly pressed the Neutral button at full speed and full throttle when he was going for the radio. The software has been changed so if he did that it wouldnt blow again. oops. :D
In answer to the original question, if his car is good enough yes, if it isnt, no. It's that simple.
Both Williams and McLaren have gone on record this week saying they are abandoning their phylosophy of evolution for next years cars, they are building radically diferent cars for 2003. They will either fight a better fight or fall flat on their asses. Should be fun finding out! :D
| OAKOS Automotive | 08-02-2002 03:02 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]:lol:
An F1 driver cant blow his own engine up, even if he wanted to. [/B][/QUOTE]
John, I respect your knowledge and experience but to me your statement doesn't seem entirely fair.
We all know that F1 engines already run on the ragged edge. How could it be that if a driver uses more gas/brake at the same time and increases the load put on the engine enough to cause the water temperature to rise that this could not potentially push an engine beyond an already fine line?
I am not trying to say that this has caused Montoya's problems but instead I am suggesting that drivers may not always be entirely blameless when an engine fails. I am under the impression that this is why Rubens does not left foot brake, because for some reason he just can't get it right without pushing both pedals simultaneously and he feels his MPG and engine temps are more important than any advantage gained by driving with two feet.
Sincerely,
Dave Kearney
[B]:lol:
An F1 driver cant blow his own engine up, even if he wanted to. [/B][/QUOTE]
John, I respect your knowledge and experience but to me your statement doesn't seem entirely fair.
We all know that F1 engines already run on the ragged edge. How could it be that if a driver uses more gas/brake at the same time and increases the load put on the engine enough to cause the water temperature to rise that this could not potentially push an engine beyond an already fine line?
I am not trying to say that this has caused Montoya's problems but instead I am suggesting that drivers may not always be entirely blameless when an engine fails. I am under the impression that this is why Rubens does not left foot brake, because for some reason he just can't get it right without pushing both pedals simultaneously and he feels his MPG and engine temps are more important than any advantage gained by driving with two feet.
Sincerely,
Dave Kearney
| johnfelstead | 08-02-2002 04:03 PM |
The cars have full two way telemetary. If your theory was correct about the driving style influencing engine blow ups, its very simple to alter the engine parameters to reduce temperatures. You are right that the engines run on the knife edge, but the cars systems are designed to control that, backing the ignition of just a tad can drop temps dramatically, dropping the revs can too.
These engines have such sophisticated closed loop control systems that they dont suffer from things like temperature buildup issues unless something goes wrong, such as debris in the sidepods blockin airflow to the coolers.
The cars are designed and tested to perform under race conditions and with the driving style of the driver concerned. Drivers like chilli dog are good enough to drive consistently.
The only real influence he would have on this during the race would be if he went off track and filled the sidepods with ****. Incedently MS does this more often than most, he always gets away with it though.
Now if chilli dog was exploding brake disks left right and centre then i would start to question his driving. The brakes are the week point on these cars and could suffer most from poor driving, they are very small and quite marginal on life since the FIA made the disks thinner.
A driver cant influence the engine life, he doesnt even change gear now, thats all programmed before the race and uses GPS location to initiate the change. The engineers are the guys who choose the shift point and they can change that during the race, as they did in germany for a short time to give chilli dog more revs. The engineers took a risk on the engine so he could pass, if that engine blew it wouldnt have been chilli dogs fault.
F1 is more a team sport than a lot of people realise, most of the work is done by the engineers. You still need a great driver to translate that into wins, but driving is just a small part of it.
Driving badly, like RB did when left foot braking will have an influence on fuel consumption and speed, even on brake life, but it wont cause an engine blow up, the engineers wont let it as they will just back things off a little, making him even slower than he already was.
These engines have such sophisticated closed loop control systems that they dont suffer from things like temperature buildup issues unless something goes wrong, such as debris in the sidepods blockin airflow to the coolers.
The cars are designed and tested to perform under race conditions and with the driving style of the driver concerned. Drivers like chilli dog are good enough to drive consistently.
The only real influence he would have on this during the race would be if he went off track and filled the sidepods with ****. Incedently MS does this more often than most, he always gets away with it though.
Now if chilli dog was exploding brake disks left right and centre then i would start to question his driving. The brakes are the week point on these cars and could suffer most from poor driving, they are very small and quite marginal on life since the FIA made the disks thinner.
A driver cant influence the engine life, he doesnt even change gear now, thats all programmed before the race and uses GPS location to initiate the change. The engineers are the guys who choose the shift point and they can change that during the race, as they did in germany for a short time to give chilli dog more revs. The engineers took a risk on the engine so he could pass, if that engine blew it wouldnt have been chilli dogs fault.
F1 is more a team sport than a lot of people realise, most of the work is done by the engineers. You still need a great driver to translate that into wins, but driving is just a small part of it.
Driving badly, like RB did when left foot braking will have an influence on fuel consumption and speed, even on brake life, but it wont cause an engine blow up, the engineers wont let it as they will just back things off a little, making him even slower than he already was.
| OAKOS Automotive | 08-02-2002 04:07 PM |
John,
Very interesting indeed, thanks for the clarification.
Sincerely,
Dave Kearney
Very interesting indeed, thanks for the clarification.
Sincerely,
Dave Kearney
| Fred Zaplitny | 08-02-2002 08:21 PM |
Montoya will take it in 2003. Mark my words!
Go chilidog!!!
Go chilidog!!!
| gtguy | 08-02-2002 08:51 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]The only real influence he would have on this during the race would be if he went off track and filled the sidepods with ****. Incedently MS does this more often than most, he always gets away with it though.
[/B][/QUOTE]
First of all, very interesting and informative post, John. I wasn't aware of how the computers knew where the driver was on the track, and what pre-programmed gear selection to engage. Cool.
Second, your comment about Schumacher is interesting, and lends credence to my theory that he visited the crossroads at midnight, to make a deal with the devil for this season. I have never seen a driver have so much luck. Rubens comes in, and the fuel flap on the T-car won't open, a car that is customarily set up for Schumi, so you know that it gets gone over with a fine-toothed comb. Schumi comes in, the pit stop is flawless. Rubens car (whatever car he's in...I wonder how many times he has to call the European equivalent of the AAA Motor Club :lol: ) breaks...Schumi's runs almost perfectly. Weird.
So John, if I am to understand correctly, there is no real way for a driver to drive a car "harder," so to speak, thus putting more stress on the engine, by using more abrupt throttle inputs, or staying in the throttle longer than someone else. I always thought that was the difference between Ralf and JPM, that JPM drove his car harder, in effect, thus working it more. Going faster, to be sure, but working it more nonetheless.
Kevin
[B]The only real influence he would have on this during the race would be if he went off track and filled the sidepods with ****. Incedently MS does this more often than most, he always gets away with it though.
[/B][/QUOTE]
First of all, very interesting and informative post, John. I wasn't aware of how the computers knew where the driver was on the track, and what pre-programmed gear selection to engage. Cool.
Second, your comment about Schumacher is interesting, and lends credence to my theory that he visited the crossroads at midnight, to make a deal with the devil for this season. I have never seen a driver have so much luck. Rubens comes in, and the fuel flap on the T-car won't open, a car that is customarily set up for Schumi, so you know that it gets gone over with a fine-toothed comb. Schumi comes in, the pit stop is flawless. Rubens car (whatever car he's in...I wonder how many times he has to call the European equivalent of the AAA Motor Club :lol: ) breaks...Schumi's runs almost perfectly. Weird.
So John, if I am to understand correctly, there is no real way for a driver to drive a car "harder," so to speak, thus putting more stress on the engine, by using more abrupt throttle inputs, or staying in the throttle longer than someone else. I always thought that was the difference between Ralf and JPM, that JPM drove his car harder, in effect, thus working it more. Going faster, to be sure, but working it more nonetheless.
Kevin
| Adrift | 08-03-2002 12:42 AM |
I don't see how the shift points can be mapped ahead of time via GPS. I am almost certain they are still based on RPM. When the engine reaches a certain rpm, it shifts. If it hits the ceiling, then it upshifts, or if if hits the floor, it downshifts. If the cars were programmed according to GPS coordinates, then something as simple as "giving a driver some more revs" would take hours to model, and couldn't bedone on the fly during a race. The GPS shift points also don't allow for a driver to dial the speed up or down for feul economy and such. The F1 teams need to be more adaptable to how the race goes than that. What happens when a driver has an off? The car stays in fourth even though he is pulling out of a gravel trap? Just because normally he is accelerating through fourth at that spot? Then it will short shift through the rest of the gears.
Also don't forget the traction control. I can assure you that some drivers use it more than others. This is another possibility for a driver to be harder on an engine. Any one who has been to see an F1 car in person can tell you that whatever is happening when the traction control is contolling wheelspin is harder on the car than your run-of-the-mill acceleration.
Also don't forget the traction control. I can assure you that some drivers use it more than others. This is another possibility for a driver to be harder on an engine. Any one who has been to see an F1 car in person can tell you that whatever is happening when the traction control is contolling wheelspin is harder on the car than your run-of-the-mill acceleration.
| pio!pio! | 08-03-2002 12:51 AM |
In terms of the shift logic: I'm no expert but I think it's probably a combination of the two. The computer controls shifts at predefined rpm points or something like that. But I'm sure the shift maps are altered for different sections of the racetrack
| OnTheGas | 06-20-2003 12:40 AM |
I Miss Fred!
I was cleaning out old e-mails, and came across a url pointing to this post... and it is a classic!
Here we are going at it hammer and tongs over various technical details, and Fred just simply states Montoya, World Champion!
The two best posts on this thread are Fred's to my eye! I miss Fred... alot! Reading his posts usually made me smile!
Here we are going at it hammer and tongs over various technical details, and Fred just simply states Montoya, World Champion!
The two best posts on this thread are Fred's to my eye! I miss Fred... alot! Reading his posts usually made me smile!
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