| bwagner | 10-17-2005 11:13 PM |
reverse cowl induction vent?
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OK, so this weekend at an autocross event I saw a nice looking "Reverse Cowl" on the hood of an STi. The owner told me it was a "Siebon" unit, but it's nowhere to be found the thier website. Does anyone have any good info or pics on this one? I'm very interested, and I'd like to check them out on the web if possible before ordering one.
| WR^2X | 10-17-2005 11:29 PM |
Reverse cowl? Did it look like a hoodscoop stuck on backwards?
| Phy6 | 10-18-2005 12:02 AM |
It's either the Cwest style or the rarer PD style
| rabbitnutz | 10-18-2005 12:02 AM |
[img]http://seibon.com/Images_U%5C1119200421755PMHDS0405SBIMP-PD%202.jpg[/img]
or
[img]http://seibon.com/Images_U%5C1115200482141PMHD0405SBIMP-CW%201.jpg[/img]
or
[img]http://seibon.com/Images_U%5C1115200482141PMHD0405SBIMP-CW%201.jpg[/img]
| Blk_on_Blk_Wgn | 10-18-2005 01:53 AM |
The first Seibon Pic looks sweet..is that even for a subaru though? looks to straight
| Phy6 | 10-18-2005 11:41 AM |
[QUOTE=Blk_on_Blk_Wgn]The first Seibon Pic looks sweet..is that even for a subaru though? looks to straight[/QUOTE]
The first pic is just the PD style reverse scoop. It costs $200-$250 just by itself. :eek:
Yeah that would look crazy as a whole hood, as the picture kinda implies. :p
The first pic is just the PD style reverse scoop. It costs $200-$250 just by itself. :eek:
Yeah that would look crazy as a whole hood, as the picture kinda implies. :p
| bwagner | 10-18-2005 11:41 AM |
It's the one in the second picture I think. Is that available to rreplace the stock hood scoop? Because the one I was checking out was actually mounted on the stock Silver hood. I'm pretty sure it looks like that one though.
| Uncle Scotty | 10-18-2005 11:43 AM |
....somebody did a 'test' using a reverse scoop and a FMIC......the results were that it was a real bad idea for engine bay cooling.....
| Phy6 | 10-18-2005 11:43 AM |
[QUOTE=bwagner]It's the one in the second picture I think. Is that available to rreplace the stock hood scoop? Because the one I was checking out was actually mounted on the stock Silver hood. I'm pretty sure it looks like that one though.[/QUOTE]
Yeah both reverse scoops/vents should be available through anyone who sells the hoods. Check Gruppe or CVR or email Subietuning
Yeah both reverse scoops/vents should be available through anyone who sells the hoods. Check Gruppe or CVR or email Subietuning
| Phy6 | 10-18-2005 11:45 AM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty]....somebody did a 'test' using a reverse scoop and a FMIC......the results were that it was a real bad idea for engine bay cooling.....[/QUOTE]
Link? I'd really like to read about the test because i was considering it.
Link? I'd really like to read about the test because i was considering it.
| Uncle Scotty | 10-18-2005 12:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Phy6]Link? I'd really like to read about the test because i was considering it.[/QUOTE]
....sorry.....i read MOST of these threads in the tech forums...and I read a LOT of threads....search the 2.0 and 2.5 and the em/tuning forums....was a couple months ago, anyway.
....seems that Subaru designed the car so that air coming through the front end and scoop vents out the bottom rear of the engine bay and reversing this with a backwards scoop disrupts this.....
....sorry.....i read MOST of these threads in the tech forums...and I read a LOT of threads....search the 2.0 and 2.5 and the em/tuning forums....was a couple months ago, anyway.
....seems that Subaru designed the car so that air coming through the front end and scoop vents out the bottom rear of the engine bay and reversing this with a backwards scoop disrupts this.....
| Phatron | 10-18-2005 12:38 PM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty]....somebody did a 'test' using a reverse scoop and a FMIC......the results were that it was a real bad idea for engine bay cooling.....[/QUOTE]
that must be y the rally team does it, they obviously dont know what they are doing. ;) Granted they have a CF funnel going from the back of the fmic to the exit scoop to make a nice flow path for the air. IIRC the regular scoop on the WRC car is non functional, otherwise it would be sucking in the air that just went through the radiator and soaked up the heat.
it depends on what you are talking about cooling. putting on a reverse scoop and a fmic isnt going to significantly raise the temp in the radiator/coolant. The fmic will block the flow a little to the radiator.
but having the reverse scoop isnt going to be blowing air right on the turbo like the stock scoop.
But the high velocity and low pressure of the air flowing over the hood should "suck" out a sufficient amount of air.
I've been running a fmic and upgraded radiator for about 3 years and my coolant temps are lower than they were stock. And I recently switched to the seibon cf hood with reverse scoop and the temps appear to be the same.
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=798635][B]PICS of Installed Reverse Cowl Hood[/B][/URL]
that must be y the rally team does it, they obviously dont know what they are doing. ;) Granted they have a CF funnel going from the back of the fmic to the exit scoop to make a nice flow path for the air. IIRC the regular scoop on the WRC car is non functional, otherwise it would be sucking in the air that just went through the radiator and soaked up the heat.
it depends on what you are talking about cooling. putting on a reverse scoop and a fmic isnt going to significantly raise the temp in the radiator/coolant. The fmic will block the flow a little to the radiator.
but having the reverse scoop isnt going to be blowing air right on the turbo like the stock scoop.
But the high velocity and low pressure of the air flowing over the hood should "suck" out a sufficient amount of air.
I've been running a fmic and upgraded radiator for about 3 years and my coolant temps are lower than they were stock. And I recently switched to the seibon cf hood with reverse scoop and the temps appear to be the same.
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=798635][B]PICS of Installed Reverse Cowl Hood[/B][/URL]
| Uncle Scotty | 10-18-2005 12:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Phatron]that must be y the rally team does it, they obviously dont know what they are doing. ;) Granted they have a CF funnel going from the back of the fmic to the exit scoop to make a nice flow path for the air. IIRC the regular scoop on the WRC car is non functional, otherwise it would be sucking in the air that just went through the radiator and soaked up the heat.
it depends on what you are talking about cooling. putting on a reverse scoop and a fmic isnt going to significantly raise the temp in the radiator/coolant. The fmic will block the flow a little to the radiator.
but having the reverse scoop isnt going to be blowing air right on the turbo like the stock scoop.
But the high velocity and low pressure of the air flowing over the hood should "suck" out a sufficient amount of air.
I've been running a fmic and upgraded radiator for about 3 years and my coolant temps are lower than they were stock. And I recently switched to the seibon cf hood with reverse scoop and the temps appear to be the same.
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=798635][B]PICS of Installed Reverse Cowl Hood[/B][/URL][/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: .....do NOT try to compare the farking rally car to ANY street car....THAT is a HUGE fallicy of logic on YOUR part. :rolleyes:
it depends on what you are talking about cooling. putting on a reverse scoop and a fmic isnt going to significantly raise the temp in the radiator/coolant. The fmic will block the flow a little to the radiator.
but having the reverse scoop isnt going to be blowing air right on the turbo like the stock scoop.
But the high velocity and low pressure of the air flowing over the hood should "suck" out a sufficient amount of air.
I've been running a fmic and upgraded radiator for about 3 years and my coolant temps are lower than they were stock. And I recently switched to the seibon cf hood with reverse scoop and the temps appear to be the same.
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=798635][B]PICS of Installed Reverse Cowl Hood[/B][/URL][/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: .....do NOT try to compare the farking rally car to ANY street car....THAT is a HUGE fallicy of logic on YOUR part. :rolleyes:
| Phatron | 10-18-2005 01:05 PM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty]:rolleyes: .....do NOT try to compare the farking rally car to ANY street car....THAT is a HUGE fallicy of logic on YOUR part. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
How so? They can run a fmic and a reverse scoop in a harsh race environment, but it makes underhood temps too hot to run on the street. :rolleyes:
Seems to be a logical comparison to me. If you can run that setup in that environment it should be more than fine on the street. Plus I am speaking from personal experience having run a FMIC for more than 3 years with lower than stock coolant temps.
And your FALLICY is a FALLACY ;)
How about the evo with fmic and a flat scoop like the wrc car. It seems to be fine. Or is that a fallAcy too :devil:
or the SRT4 with fmic and no (functional) scoop. another fallAcy :devil:
How so? They can run a fmic and a reverse scoop in a harsh race environment, but it makes underhood temps too hot to run on the street. :rolleyes:
Seems to be a logical comparison to me. If you can run that setup in that environment it should be more than fine on the street. Plus I am speaking from personal experience having run a FMIC for more than 3 years with lower than stock coolant temps.
And your FALLICY is a FALLACY ;)
How about the evo with fmic and a flat scoop like the wrc car. It seems to be fine. Or is that a fallAcy too :devil:
or the SRT4 with fmic and no (functional) scoop. another fallAcy :devil:
| Uncle Scotty | 10-18-2005 01:13 PM |
[QUOTE=Phatron]How so? They can run a fmic and a reverse scoop in a harsh race environment, but it makes underhood temps too hot to run on the street. :rolleyes:
Seems to be a logical comparison to me. If you can run that setup in that environment it should be more than fine on the street. Plus I am speaking from personal experience having run a FMIC for more than 3 years with lower than stock coolant temps.
And your FALLICY is a FALLACY ;)
How about the evo with fmic and a flat scoop like the wrc car. It seems to be fine. Or is that a fallAcy too :devil:
or the SRT4 with fmic and no (functional) scoop. another fallAcy :devil:[/QUOTE]
.....d0000000000000000000000000000000d....it is a purpose built race car that is completely different in form and function compared to a street car.
YOU are victim of the 'they do it on racecars so im gonna do it on my street car'....which is the ROOT of ALL RICE.
if you fail to understand that, you need to stay in school and finish learning what's what about the differences between $xxx,xxx race cars and street cars in your spare time so that you stop posting drivel about RICE.
Seems to be a logical comparison to me. If you can run that setup in that environment it should be more than fine on the street. Plus I am speaking from personal experience having run a FMIC for more than 3 years with lower than stock coolant temps.
And your FALLICY is a FALLACY ;)
How about the evo with fmic and a flat scoop like the wrc car. It seems to be fine. Or is that a fallAcy too :devil:
or the SRT4 with fmic and no (functional) scoop. another fallAcy :devil:[/QUOTE]
.....d0000000000000000000000000000000d....it is a purpose built race car that is completely different in form and function compared to a street car.
YOU are victim of the 'they do it on racecars so im gonna do it on my street car'....which is the ROOT of ALL RICE.
if you fail to understand that, you need to stay in school and finish learning what's what about the differences between $xxx,xxx race cars and street cars in your spare time so that you stop posting drivel about RICE.
| Phatron | 10-18-2005 01:19 PM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty].....d0000000000000000000000000000000d....it is a purpose built race car that is completely different in form and function compared to a street car.
YOU are victim of the 'they do it on racecars so im gonna do it on my street car'....which is the ROOT of ALL RICE.
if you fail to understand that, you need to stay in school and finish learning what's what about the differences between $xxx,xxx race cars and street cars in your spare time so that you stop posting drivel about RICE.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I'm done with school, i guess i didnt learn much.
heres the thread It is a comparison of intake temps.
[url]http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ult...ic&f=8&t=000769[/url]
"
So the testing came sooner. I broke out the Blue-Point multimeter with a K-type thermo-couple hookup (insert Tim Taylor grunt here)clamped into the hose at the throttle body and went to measuring.
I ran around a bit with that setup and took pretty dissapointing readings. Intake temps with the TXS front mount, my ram air plumbing and that reverse scoop on an 80 degree day wouldn't get below 120 (F) at highway speeds WOT (it gets colder at WOT in every test.
Then today, at temperatures closer to 55 degrees I ran down to a performance shop and got some heat shielding for the FMIC line that runs over the turbo. Temperatures were still in the 120 range at best. Got back to my shop. Installed it (pics to come soon) and took some test runs. 105 F. A 15 degree difference. Then I reinstalled the CryO2 which kinda worked (couple of degrees)and then I ran out of CO2 (it leaks somewhere). Inconclusive but it think my little CryO2 bar for the TMIC is too small to effect the big FMIC OR the air temp at 55 is cool enough that -70C doesn't do much. I'll check it on a hot day next time.
Now I'm running the factory scoop again. As long as I don't sit still for long, any throttle position at any speed over a crawl (65 is a crawl to me) say over 30 mph and the temp is happy in the 90s. Sees temps in the 80s at WOT.
So, for FMIC users. Wrapping the inlet tube is good (duh), and the Scoop is good, either to cool the inlet tube or to wash the hot turbo air away. The reverse scoop is bad."
Too bad he doesnt state the ambient temp during the stock scoop testing. And his results are inconclusive anyway. Look at his facts:
1) Test 1: [B]80[/B] degree day w/ Reverse Scoop yields Intake Temp= 120 (F)
2) Test 2: [B]55[/B] degree day w/ Reverse Scoop & heat shield installed = 105 F
3) Test 3: [B]TEMP ????[/B] w/ stock scoop & Heat Shield yields = [B]90's[/B]
Ok 25 deg lower temp for test 2 yields 15 degress cooler intake temp, wow thats surprising. No mention of ambient temp during stock scoop testing, and no definitive temp, 90's could mean 90-91 or 98-99. And wow 105 degrees from test 2 to 99 degrees for test 3. 6 degrees, i better take off my reverse scoop or my motor is going to get really hot and melt. :lol:
His test could very well prove something if all the data was there. All the testing should be done on the same day to have the same ambient temp as comparison, but even then testing over a span of 5-6 hours the ambient temp could easily change 5-10 deg which would effect your data. To me his biggest findings seem to be that wrapping the intercooler piping is the way to go.
You also have to remember that for test #3 his thermocouple was on the intercooler pipe wrapping and not directly on the pipe and the pipe is a better conductor and would yield higher temps than a cloth wrap.
At most his results from test 2 to test 3 is 15 degrees, most of which could be accounted for by the
1) ambient temp that day
2) material thermocouple is placed on
3) accuracy of the thermocouple
4) driving speed
5) driving time
There are just too many variables for me to deduce anything conclusive from this data.
YOU are victim of the 'they do it on racecars so im gonna do it on my street car'....which is the ROOT of ALL RICE.
if you fail to understand that, you need to stay in school and finish learning what's what about the differences between $xxx,xxx race cars and street cars in your spare time so that you stop posting drivel about RICE.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I'm done with school, i guess i didnt learn much.
heres the thread It is a comparison of intake temps.
[url]http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ult...ic&f=8&t=000769[/url]
"
So the testing came sooner. I broke out the Blue-Point multimeter with a K-type thermo-couple hookup (insert Tim Taylor grunt here)clamped into the hose at the throttle body and went to measuring.
I ran around a bit with that setup and took pretty dissapointing readings. Intake temps with the TXS front mount, my ram air plumbing and that reverse scoop on an 80 degree day wouldn't get below 120 (F) at highway speeds WOT (it gets colder at WOT in every test.
Then today, at temperatures closer to 55 degrees I ran down to a performance shop and got some heat shielding for the FMIC line that runs over the turbo. Temperatures were still in the 120 range at best. Got back to my shop. Installed it (pics to come soon) and took some test runs. 105 F. A 15 degree difference. Then I reinstalled the CryO2 which kinda worked (couple of degrees)and then I ran out of CO2 (it leaks somewhere). Inconclusive but it think my little CryO2 bar for the TMIC is too small to effect the big FMIC OR the air temp at 55 is cool enough that -70C doesn't do much. I'll check it on a hot day next time.
Now I'm running the factory scoop again. As long as I don't sit still for long, any throttle position at any speed over a crawl (65 is a crawl to me) say over 30 mph and the temp is happy in the 90s. Sees temps in the 80s at WOT.
So, for FMIC users. Wrapping the inlet tube is good (duh), and the Scoop is good, either to cool the inlet tube or to wash the hot turbo air away. The reverse scoop is bad."
Too bad he doesnt state the ambient temp during the stock scoop testing. And his results are inconclusive anyway. Look at his facts:
1) Test 1: [B]80[/B] degree day w/ Reverse Scoop yields Intake Temp= 120 (F)
2) Test 2: [B]55[/B] degree day w/ Reverse Scoop & heat shield installed = 105 F
3) Test 3: [B]TEMP ????[/B] w/ stock scoop & Heat Shield yields = [B]90's[/B]
Ok 25 deg lower temp for test 2 yields 15 degress cooler intake temp, wow thats surprising. No mention of ambient temp during stock scoop testing, and no definitive temp, 90's could mean 90-91 or 98-99. And wow 105 degrees from test 2 to 99 degrees for test 3. 6 degrees, i better take off my reverse scoop or my motor is going to get really hot and melt. :lol:
His test could very well prove something if all the data was there. All the testing should be done on the same day to have the same ambient temp as comparison, but even then testing over a span of 5-6 hours the ambient temp could easily change 5-10 deg which would effect your data. To me his biggest findings seem to be that wrapping the intercooler piping is the way to go.
You also have to remember that for test #3 his thermocouple was on the intercooler pipe wrapping and not directly on the pipe and the pipe is a better conductor and would yield higher temps than a cloth wrap.
At most his results from test 2 to test 3 is 15 degrees, most of which could be accounted for by the
1) ambient temp that day
2) material thermocouple is placed on
3) accuracy of the thermocouple
4) driving speed
5) driving time
There are just too many variables for me to deduce anything conclusive from this data.
| Phy6 | 10-18-2005 02:33 PM |
Thanks Phatron
| Uncle Scotty | 10-18-2005 03:58 PM |
put the stock radiator back in and see what happens
| Phatron | 10-18-2005 04:23 PM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty]put the stock radiator back in and see what happens[/QUOTE]
IMO you shouldnt be running a FMIC and upgraded VF series turbo or larger turbo without also upgrading the radiator.
My radiator and thermostat were my second mod.
IMO you shouldnt be running a FMIC and upgraded VF series turbo or larger turbo without also upgrading the radiator.
My radiator and thermostat were my second mod.
| Uncle Scotty | 10-18-2005 04:26 PM |
....so stop trying to compare a race car to a street car.
| Phatron | 10-18-2005 04:38 PM |
I'm using my car as an example jackass.....that guys thread in the other forum is very useless without all the other data.
But if you believe that 15 degrees difference in a test that was done on different days in different temps proves anything then so be it. His first two tests were done in 25 degree different weather so who the hell knows what the temp was for the other test. His post proves nothing. Just keep going around and posting fallacies and half truths like all of us specialists and gurus, afterall thats how we got here in the first place.
And if you wanna mod your car and give it 2x the factory power and keep the stock cooling system then you're a jackass imo.
But if you believe that 15 degrees difference in a test that was done on different days in different temps proves anything then so be it. His first two tests were done in 25 degree different weather so who the hell knows what the temp was for the other test. His post proves nothing. Just keep going around and posting fallacies and half truths like all of us specialists and gurus, afterall thats how we got here in the first place.
And if you wanna mod your car and give it 2x the factory power and keep the stock cooling system then you're a jackass imo.
| OtisCole | 10-18-2005 04:53 PM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty]....so stop trying to compare a race car to a street car.[/QUOTE]
Not being sarcastic....
How do the differences between a race car and a street car effect the current discussion? Why is using a race car as an example not appropriate?
Maybe I'm missing something, but you never cited a reason.
Not being sarcastic....
How do the differences between a race car and a street car effect the current discussion? Why is using a race car as an example not appropriate?
Maybe I'm missing something, but you never cited a reason.
| Phatron | 10-18-2005 04:57 PM |
[QUOTE=OtisCole]Not being sarcastic....
How do the differences between a race car and a street car effect the current discussion? Why is using a race car as an example not appropriate?
Maybe I'm missing something, but you never cited a reason.[/QUOTE]
Same way i feel. If they can use a FMIC and a reverse scoop (not really a scoop as an opening in the hood) on the WRC car that push 300hp and 450 ft*lbs and is under constant load, then it should work 500% better for street use when the car is only under load sometimes and cruising the majority of the time.
And with all the gt35r kitted STi's they are pushing more power than the WRC car anyway. So i guess you're right the WRC car isnt a good comparison because it doesnt make enough power. :lol:
How do the differences between a race car and a street car effect the current discussion? Why is using a race car as an example not appropriate?
Maybe I'm missing something, but you never cited a reason.[/QUOTE]
Same way i feel. If they can use a FMIC and a reverse scoop (not really a scoop as an opening in the hood) on the WRC car that push 300hp and 450 ft*lbs and is under constant load, then it should work 500% better for street use when the car is only under load sometimes and cruising the majority of the time.
And with all the gt35r kitted STi's they are pushing more power than the WRC car anyway. So i guess you're right the WRC car isnt a good comparison because it doesnt make enough power. :lol:
| Uncle Scotty | 10-18-2005 04:59 PM |
[QUOTE=OtisCole]Not being sarcastic....
How do the differences between a race car and a street car effect the current discussion? Why is using a race car as an example not appropriate?
Maybe I'm missing something, but you never cited a reason.[/QUOTE]
....the d0000000d wut wuz thinkin he had it all figured out brought the WRC rally car into a streetcar discussion....and blew it.
Some people just don't, and never ever will, get it..... :confused: :(
How do the differences between a race car and a street car effect the current discussion? Why is using a race car as an example not appropriate?
Maybe I'm missing something, but you never cited a reason.[/QUOTE]
....the d0000000d wut wuz thinkin he had it all figured out brought the WRC rally car into a streetcar discussion....and blew it.
Some people just don't, and never ever will, get it..... :confused: :(
| Uncle Scotty | 10-18-2005 05:02 PM |
[QUOTE=Phatron]Same way i feel. If they can use a FMIC and a reverse scoop (not really a scoop as an opening in the hood) on the WRC car that push 300hp and 450 ft*lbs and is under constant load, then it should work 500% better for street use when the car is only under load sometimes and cruising the majority of the time.
And with all the gt35r kitted STi's they are pushing more power than the WRC car anyway. So i guess you're right the WRC car isnt a good comparison because it doesnt make enough power. :lol:[/QUOTE]
You just don't know yer ass from yer mouth.......damn it it makes me sick wheN people post crap and try to support an unsupportable premise.
the god damned rally car is TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM A STREET CAR IN ANY REAL WAY SO STOP STRYING TO VALIDATE YOUR POSITION WITH THAT.
THE IC IN THE RALLY CAR IS IN THE UPPER PART OF THE FRONT OF THE CAR AND TEH AIR EXITS THE FRONT VENT....AMKING UNDERHOOD AIR MANAGEMENT 100% DIFFERENT FROM ANY STREET CAR YOU WILL EVER DRIVE.
And with all the gt35r kitted STi's they are pushing more power than the WRC car anyway. So i guess you're right the WRC car isnt a good comparison because it doesnt make enough power. :lol:[/QUOTE]
You just don't know yer ass from yer mouth.......damn it it makes me sick wheN people post crap and try to support an unsupportable premise.
the god damned rally car is TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM A STREET CAR IN ANY REAL WAY SO STOP STRYING TO VALIDATE YOUR POSITION WITH THAT.
THE IC IN THE RALLY CAR IS IN THE UPPER PART OF THE FRONT OF THE CAR AND TEH AIR EXITS THE FRONT VENT....AMKING UNDERHOOD AIR MANAGEMENT 100% DIFFERENT FROM ANY STREET CAR YOU WILL EVER DRIVE.
| Phatron | 10-18-2005 05:11 PM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty]
THE IC IN THE RALLY CAR IS IN THE UPPER PART OF THE FRONT OF THE CAR AND TEH AIR EXITS THE FRONT VENT[/QUOTE]
Yeah thats totally different than the FMIC on my car and the air exiting through the reverse scoop. I dont know what i was thinking.
Next time i'll pm you before i post to make sure i understand whats going on.
And forget my bringing up the evo and the srt4 cause those cars are way different and are cooled different than subarus. we better go tell mitsubishi and dodge to put functional scoops on their cars or they're gonna overheat. 120 deg temps on the outside of the throttle body.....nooooooooo.
I live in 120 deg weather on the outside of the car and my car has never once went above the 1/2 way point on the temp gauge.
THE IC IN THE RALLY CAR IS IN THE UPPER PART OF THE FRONT OF THE CAR AND TEH AIR EXITS THE FRONT VENT[/QUOTE]
Yeah thats totally different than the FMIC on my car and the air exiting through the reverse scoop. I dont know what i was thinking.
Next time i'll pm you before i post to make sure i understand whats going on.
And forget my bringing up the evo and the srt4 cause those cars are way different and are cooled different than subarus. we better go tell mitsubishi and dodge to put functional scoops on their cars or they're gonna overheat. 120 deg temps on the outside of the throttle body.....nooooooooo.
I live in 120 deg weather on the outside of the car and my car has never once went above the 1/2 way point on the temp gauge.
| OtisCole | 10-18-2005 05:12 PM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty]
THE IC IN THE RALLY CAR IS IN THE UPPER PART OF THE FRONT OF THE CAR AND TEH AIR EXITS THE FRONT VENT....AMKING UNDERHOOD AIR MANAGEMENT 100% DIFFERENT FROM ANY STREET CAR YOU WILL EVER DRIVE.[/QUOTE]
....at least this small section of one of your posts was usefull..... :rolleyes:
Thanks though.
THE IC IN THE RALLY CAR IS IN THE UPPER PART OF THE FRONT OF THE CAR AND TEH AIR EXITS THE FRONT VENT....AMKING UNDERHOOD AIR MANAGEMENT 100% DIFFERENT FROM ANY STREET CAR YOU WILL EVER DRIVE.[/QUOTE]
....at least this small section of one of your posts was usefull..... :rolleyes:
Thanks though.
| BraveUlysses | 10-18-2005 07:36 PM |
[QUOTE=Phatron]Same way i feel. If they can use a FMIC and a reverse scoop (not really a scoop as an opening in the hood) on the WRC car that push 300hp and 450 ft*lbs and is under constant load, then it should work 500% better for street use when the car is only under load sometimes and cruising the majority of the time.
And with all the gt35r kitted STi's they are pushing more power than the WRC car anyway. So i guess you're right the WRC car isnt a good comparison because it doesnt make enough power. :lol:[/QUOTE]
You've got it backwards.
Simply because the rally car runs so much harder, faster, and hotter that an extreme and HIGHLY DIFFERENT intercooler/radiator setup makes a substantial and measureable difference for the rally car, and exactly why it wouldn't have a measureable or significant difference for the street car.
And with all the gt35r kitted STi's they are pushing more power than the WRC car anyway. So i guess you're right the WRC car isnt a good comparison because it doesnt make enough power. :lol:[/QUOTE]
You've got it backwards.
Simply because the rally car runs so much harder, faster, and hotter that an extreme and HIGHLY DIFFERENT intercooler/radiator setup makes a substantial and measureable difference for the rally car, and exactly why it wouldn't have a measureable or significant difference for the street car.
| Phatron | 10-18-2005 08:03 PM |
[QUOTE=BraveUlysses]You've got it backwards.
Simply because the rally car runs so much harder, faster, and hotter that an extreme and HIGHLY DIFFERENT intercooler/radiator setup makes a substantial and measureable difference for the rally car, and exactly why it wouldn't have a measureable or significant difference for the street car.[/QUOTE]
ok screw the rally car. even though i dont believe that just because the intercooler and radiator are in a v now or however they are setup the principle behind the placement of the fmic and the exit vent are the same.
air go through intercooler and out vent, thats it. how is that not comparable and HIGHLY DIFFERENT. If the intercooler was in the trunk that would be HIGHLY DIFFERENT, but sitting in the same location only angled is HIGHLY DIFFERENT? but again if everyone is gonna splice pubic hairs i'll stick to the evo, which runs a fmic and an exit vent and the srt4 which has no scoop or vent and they are both fine.
my car along 10 zillion others run fmic's and reverse scoops just fine.
and most importantly that guys data from his test means absolutely nothing because the conditions of the test (ie temp & weather) were extremely different.
And if someone autox's their gt35r STi that makes 600whp and 600 ft*lbs in the california desert, i think that should be pretty comparable heat wise (which is what we're talking about here) to a wrc car. but i guess they're still not comparable since the setup is highly different.
Simply because the rally car runs so much harder, faster, and hotter that an extreme and HIGHLY DIFFERENT intercooler/radiator setup makes a substantial and measureable difference for the rally car, and exactly why it wouldn't have a measureable or significant difference for the street car.[/QUOTE]
ok screw the rally car. even though i dont believe that just because the intercooler and radiator are in a v now or however they are setup the principle behind the placement of the fmic and the exit vent are the same.
air go through intercooler and out vent, thats it. how is that not comparable and HIGHLY DIFFERENT. If the intercooler was in the trunk that would be HIGHLY DIFFERENT, but sitting in the same location only angled is HIGHLY DIFFERENT? but again if everyone is gonna splice pubic hairs i'll stick to the evo, which runs a fmic and an exit vent and the srt4 which has no scoop or vent and they are both fine.
my car along 10 zillion others run fmic's and reverse scoops just fine.
and most importantly that guys data from his test means absolutely nothing because the conditions of the test (ie temp & weather) were extremely different.
And if someone autox's their gt35r STi that makes 600whp and 600 ft*lbs in the california desert, i think that should be pretty comparable heat wise (which is what we're talking about here) to a wrc car. but i guess they're still not comparable since the setup is highly different.
| Barge | 10-18-2005 08:20 PM |
The biggest problems w/ these reverse scoops is that they are in the wrong place. You have a massive high pressure zone in front of the windshield. You want a low pressure area above the vent to suck the hot air out. Chances are at speed there may actually be air coming into the reverse scoop and now out of it.
You'll notice that the WRC cars hood vent is much more foward... a low pressure area.
The ducting also make a huge difference.. it amazes me that there are so many FMIC cars w/ no ducting.
In my OPINION the WRX w/ a fmic could end up with a lot better cooling for the car as a whole.. w/ the proper ducting and hood design.
You'll notice that the WRC cars hood vent is much more foward... a low pressure area.
The ducting also make a huge difference.. it amazes me that there are so many FMIC cars w/ no ducting.
In my OPINION the WRX w/ a fmic could end up with a lot better cooling for the car as a whole.. w/ the proper ducting and hood design.
| 2phless | 10-18-2005 11:19 PM |
General forum posts. Insert grain of salt here.
What do you want to know? The reverse scoop doesn't flow "out". It still flows in (downward), just not with as much force as the stock STi scoop.
The change (delta) in temperature at the throttle body is not as great with the reverse scoop simply due to an increase of heat wash across the front mount plumbing. The air just doesn't move around as much under the hood with the reverse scoop. Feel free not to believe me or my data. It's your car and this is the internet.
My theory is that the vent further forward in the rally hood is under the high pressure area. That allows air to rush under and produce upforce into the low pressure area that would otherwise be on top of a reverse hood scoop. This creates A: a scavenging effect to draw air through the FMIC and the radiator, and out the reverse scoop, B: by relieving that positive pressure from in front of the windshield it helps the car move through walls of air at high speed. (and C: the warm air on the windshield might help defrost some on those cold, winter morns.)
(Don't take that or the following as 'snippy' or defensive or anything like that. I'm simply posting to aid or diminish the validity of my old numbers/data/whatever.)
I didn't post entirely conclusive data in the old thread, nor did I post every detail of every moment of my trials because
A: I got other things to do on any given day.
B: I don't see nasioc paying my mortage.
C: I know what I did, I know the results and I felt like sharing enough to convey my final 'feelings' about the experiment.
I wasn't writing a paper to convince NASA to abort a shuttle mission. I was filling the internet with more "theories" that might help save someone money if they were looking to buy a product for function instead of for form.
Take it and run with it if you don't believe me, buy one. Bring back some better numbers. We can all discuss the new results. No reason to yell. I already spent all the 'experimental' money I'm gonna on a pretty fun, but "for the love of god, it ain't all that" car. I mean it's still just a little tin Subaru. If you need to make it perform like the one Fuji Heavy's wallet built.... then start spending your money, get sponsored, whatever.
I mean hey.... Disregard people who are adimently screaming "SAVE YOUR MONEY!" Why should they even care really? If it were a new experimental part that no one has tried yet, then they'd say, "get it and post your findings." But besides the groaning about your confusion with our car's aerodynamics vs. that of sponsored race cars... I think the replies here are aimed at helping you.
But I'm just playing with the UTEC these days. It amuses me.
What do you want to know? The reverse scoop doesn't flow "out". It still flows in (downward), just not with as much force as the stock STi scoop.
The change (delta) in temperature at the throttle body is not as great with the reverse scoop simply due to an increase of heat wash across the front mount plumbing. The air just doesn't move around as much under the hood with the reverse scoop. Feel free not to believe me or my data. It's your car and this is the internet.
My theory is that the vent further forward in the rally hood is under the high pressure area. That allows air to rush under and produce upforce into the low pressure area that would otherwise be on top of a reverse hood scoop. This creates A: a scavenging effect to draw air through the FMIC and the radiator, and out the reverse scoop, B: by relieving that positive pressure from in front of the windshield it helps the car move through walls of air at high speed. (and C: the warm air on the windshield might help defrost some on those cold, winter morns.)
(Don't take that or the following as 'snippy' or defensive or anything like that. I'm simply posting to aid or diminish the validity of my old numbers/data/whatever.)
I didn't post entirely conclusive data in the old thread, nor did I post every detail of every moment of my trials because
A: I got other things to do on any given day.
B: I don't see nasioc paying my mortage.
C: I know what I did, I know the results and I felt like sharing enough to convey my final 'feelings' about the experiment.
I wasn't writing a paper to convince NASA to abort a shuttle mission. I was filling the internet with more "theories" that might help save someone money if they were looking to buy a product for function instead of for form.
Take it and run with it if you don't believe me, buy one. Bring back some better numbers. We can all discuss the new results. No reason to yell. I already spent all the 'experimental' money I'm gonna on a pretty fun, but "for the love of god, it ain't all that" car. I mean it's still just a little tin Subaru. If you need to make it perform like the one Fuji Heavy's wallet built.... then start spending your money, get sponsored, whatever.
I mean hey.... Disregard people who are adimently screaming "SAVE YOUR MONEY!" Why should they even care really? If it were a new experimental part that no one has tried yet, then they'd say, "get it and post your findings." But besides the groaning about your confusion with our car's aerodynamics vs. that of sponsored race cars... I think the replies here are aimed at helping you.
But I'm just playing with the UTEC these days. It amuses me.
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