| snipes | 01-27-2004 10:39 PM |
SCCA autoX question
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ok so im arguing with someone that says vipers are the best car ever (that is somewhat affordable)
anyways im saying they have never even made a showing at SCCA solo II autoX and he is claiming only a few people go to this
and i can't find any numbers but how many people compete nation wide to GET to nationals ...any idea or links?
(i googled but couldn't find anything)
or maybe an educated estimate
anyways im saying they have never even made a showing at SCCA solo II autoX and he is claiming only a few people go to this
and i can't find any numbers but how many people compete nation wide to GET to nationals ...any idea or links?
(i googled but couldn't find anything)
or maybe an educated estimate
| gjhsu | 01-27-2004 10:51 PM |
Shifter karts drive circles around Vipers out there :D I will never race in SM2, though. Not even sure my car CAN run in that class, but I'll be happy losing in STX right now :p
| EHobron | 01-28-2004 12:15 AM |
Try SCCA.org for some information.
Solo II is growing everywhere. Attendance at many events is in excess of 120 drivers. Or, 80+ cars since some people share cars.
The Vipers are rare but would have to compete with the Vettes, Porsche turbos and similar beasts. My STi for instance belongs in A stock and does quite well against M3s, et al.
Keep in mind though that the car is not that big a deal. Since you are competeing in a "car class" performance should be similar. The driver makes the difference. For proof, visit an event, take a couple runs and then let an instructor show you how fast they can go in "your" car.
Stock Miatas are very popular at Solo II. And, they run faster times than the Vettes sometimes. Size (cubic inches) don't matter in Solo II.
Good luck.
Solo II is growing everywhere. Attendance at many events is in excess of 120 drivers. Or, 80+ cars since some people share cars.
The Vipers are rare but would have to compete with the Vettes, Porsche turbos and similar beasts. My STi for instance belongs in A stock and does quite well against M3s, et al.
Keep in mind though that the car is not that big a deal. Since you are competeing in a "car class" performance should be similar. The driver makes the difference. For proof, visit an event, take a couple runs and then let an instructor show you how fast they can go in "your" car.
Stock Miatas are very popular at Solo II. And, they run faster times than the Vettes sometimes. Size (cubic inches) don't matter in Solo II.
Good luck.
| snipes | 01-28-2004 01:00 AM |
yea i know and i checked SCCA.org....that was the first place
but i couldn't find a number of average participants per event and number events per year (that go towards nationals)
but i couldn't find a number of average participants per event and number events per year (that go towards nationals)
| Steve '02 WRX | 01-28-2004 02:27 PM |
Years ago someone showed up in a Viper in SS and did so well that all of the Corvette drivers complained that this expensive car was going to destroy the class, so it was moved straight to ASP (Certain other stock cars like the some of the Ferrari's and cars like the Porsche GT2 get this treatment as well). The idea with moving cars like that is that they are too expensive for the average competitor and someone could possibly buy the class championship. Other people feel that SS should be open to the best cars made.
Not many people have competed in Vipers because they are very expensive cars, but I have seen several at events and they do well when driven by a good driver. With the Z06 dominating SS now the Vipers were just recently moved back into SS. It will be interesting to see if anyone shows up with one to compete with the Z06's. On a tight autocross course I think the Z06 will win since I believe they handle tight corners better than the Viper. If it was a more open course though it could be a different story. The Viper is certainly an impressive car, but I wouldn't call it the best car ever. If you had the choice between a Viper or a McClaren F1 which would you pick? Even if you are talking more mass produced vehicles I can think of several I would pick before a Viper.
Not many people have competed in Vipers because they are very expensive cars, but I have seen several at events and they do well when driven by a good driver. With the Z06 dominating SS now the Vipers were just recently moved back into SS. It will be interesting to see if anyone shows up with one to compete with the Z06's. On a tight autocross course I think the Z06 will win since I believe they handle tight corners better than the Viper. If it was a more open course though it could be a different story. The Viper is certainly an impressive car, but I wouldn't call it the best car ever. If you had the choice between a Viper or a McClaren F1 which would you pick? Even if you are talking more mass produced vehicles I can think of several I would pick before a Viper.
| KC | 01-28-2004 02:33 PM |
Wait 'till the 'little' Elise makes their appearance in SS against Z-06s. :lol:
| TheWRX | 01-28-2004 02:43 PM |
Steve Telehowski is signed up with a Viper in SS for the Atlanta ProSolo. Should be interesting to watch!
| Steve '02 WRX | 01-28-2004 02:50 PM |
Have they classed the Elise yet? I wouldn't be surprised to see that go straight to ASP as well. With limited availability and the light weight plus all of the previous Lotus experiences I suspect they will be conservative on the classing. Who knows though.
Steve Telehowski and Matthew Braun have driven a Viper at Cendiv events before. They are both really fast drivers and the Viper will do well in either of their hands.
Steve Telehowski and Matthew Braun have driven a Viper at Cendiv events before. They are both really fast drivers and the Viper will do well in either of their hands.
| KC | 01-28-2004 02:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Steve '02 WRX[/i]
[B] With limited availability and the light weight plus all of the previous Lotus experiences I suspect they will be conservative on the classing. [/B][/QUOTE]
More units will be produced than the ITR in their 1st and 2nd year. :)
--KC
[B] With limited availability and the light weight plus all of the previous Lotus experiences I suspect they will be conservative on the classing. [/B][/QUOTE]
More units will be produced than the ITR in their 1st and 2nd year. :)
--KC
| dave bruener | 01-28-2004 05:42 PM |
The last two years at the national championships there were in the neighborhood of 1200 registered participants as I recall.
This is supposed to be one of the largest amatuer sports events in the country.
This is supposed to be one of the largest amatuer sports events in the country.
| dadswrx | 01-28-2004 05:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dave bruener [/i]
[B]The last two years at the national championships there were in the neighborhood of 1200 registered participants as I recall.
This is supposed to be one of the largest amatuer sports events in the country. [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know about "the largest amateur sports event in the country," but I do believe it was purported to have the largest participant base of any motorsports event in the country.
Mike
02 WRX Wagon
[B]The last two years at the national championships there were in the neighborhood of 1200 registered participants as I recall.
This is supposed to be one of the largest amatuer sports events in the country. [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know about "the largest amateur sports event in the country," but I do believe it was purported to have the largest participant base of any motorsports event in the country.
Mike
02 WRX Wagon
| del105 | 01-28-2004 06:07 PM |
I have a feeling the elise will be in AS not SS
| mofugga | 01-28-2004 06:16 PM |
i've heard the front wheel wells on the elise are so small that you can't stick an R-compound in there.
| KC | 01-28-2004 06:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by del105[/i]
[B] I have a feeling the elise will be in AS not SS [/B][/QUOTE]
No, according to the Elise board... SS. ;)
--kC
[B] I have a feeling the elise will be in AS not SS [/B][/QUOTE]
No, according to the Elise board... SS. ;)
--kC
| TyrannoSullyRex | 01-28-2004 06:25 PM |
There was a guy that raced a Viper in Houston region but he broke the chassis a few times and Dodge wouldn't warranty it after the second time. He bought a 911 Turbo instead.
If you are wondering the Viper was bone stock on R-compounds, it was a GTS.
If you are wondering the Viper was bone stock on R-compounds, it was a GTS.
| RebelINS | 01-28-2004 06:38 PM |
The only times I have seen Vipers autocross is on a course that was short, and on the tight side. It may have been just the drivers, but I wasn't very impressed with the times. In the last event which I still have the times for, my best was a 31.7. I have a 2000 RS, on Azenis, and a few suspension mods, and it's a 4EAT. I believe all of the vipers were on R-compounds and their times best times ranged from 30.4 to a 31.0, I'm not sure which cars had what done to it though. Many of the Vettes were faster, as well as some other cars.
-Wes
-Wes
| driggity | 01-28-2004 06:46 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TyrannoSullyRex[/i]
[B]broke the chassis a few times [/B][/QUOTE]
Broke the chassis? :huh:
[B]broke the chassis a few times [/B][/QUOTE]
Broke the chassis? :huh:
| TyrannoSullyRex | 01-28-2004 06:53 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by driggity[/i]
[B] Broke the chassis? :huh: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, right behind the passenger compartment.
[B] Broke the chassis? :huh: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, right behind the passenger compartment.
| afpdl | 01-28-2004 10:58 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by del105[/i]
[B] I have a feeling the elise will be in AS not SS [/B][/QUOTE] That would be murder unless the car is a huge let down. How could wheels be to small to fit r-compounds
:confused: They make differnt sizes of r-compounds.
[B] I have a feeling the elise will be in AS not SS [/B][/QUOTE] That would be murder unless the car is a huge let down. How could wheels be to small to fit r-compounds
:confused: They make differnt sizes of r-compounds.
| ChrisDP | 01-29-2004 12:06 AM |
If memory serves, the Elise comes with 175/16s or something in the front. I'm not 100% sure about that and I could be very wrong, but I believe that was one issue they were talking when I perused the Elise boards a while back. Not sure if they found a way around that. Think about how large a Viper is. It's very wide, and has a long hood. I think it's going to be a bear to drive, and very hard to make the car go fast unless you have skill like Steve Telehowski. If memory serves, Dean Sapp tried one in either SS or ASP and ended up dumping it for an RX-7.
| KoneKiller | 01-31-2004 03:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TyrannoSullyRex [/i]
[B]Yeah, right behind the passenger compartment. [/B][/QUOTE]
Broken chassis were common on early Vipers. Too much torque, not enough high quality steel.
[B]Yeah, right behind the passenger compartment. [/B][/QUOTE]
Broken chassis were common on early Vipers. Too much torque, not enough high quality steel.
| ellisnc | 01-31-2004 04:04 PM |
I think when you guys are talking about high powered cars in Autocross it's soooo much the driver more than anything else. I beat an ASP 996 turbo on A3S03's last season in my SM WRX with A032R and the guy looked like he was hauling ass when I watched his runs. :confused:
For those of you here that have seen Danny Popp (ASP national champ I believe) drive, the guy is out of his freaking mind and you know what I'm talking about. I think with someone like that, you give him more power and it takes a while longer before you reach the point of diminishing returns as far as power goes. He'll just mash the go pedal and steer the thing.
Anyway, if the Viper were that good in ASP why is there no one running one in that class at nationals? Certainly you could buy one for about as much as a late model Z06 now.
For those of you here that have seen Danny Popp (ASP national champ I believe) drive, the guy is out of his freaking mind and you know what I'm talking about. I think with someone like that, you give him more power and it takes a while longer before you reach the point of diminishing returns as far as power goes. He'll just mash the go pedal and steer the thing.
Anyway, if the Viper were that good in ASP why is there no one running one in that class at nationals? Certainly you could buy one for about as much as a late model Z06 now.
| WRX-ECE | 02-01-2004 12:06 PM |
Viper = bad auto-x car with anything but the best of drivers.
As far as the best car ever, yeah right. I haven't been in one in a while but the few I have been in were typical POS dodges. One had a broken hood that wouldn't close, another had broken plastic all over it... They are certainly better now and if you gave me one I would take it but I just am not impressed with them. So, a viper new is < 90K right so the list of "better" cars (i.e. cars for the same or less money that I would rather have):
Any porshe that is < 90k
Z-06
any C6 vette (me likey)
M3
M5
AMG C55 ( think thats < 90K)
Elise (whenever it gets here)
S8
RS6
Supra Turbo
A full carbon fiber F-mod car so my 220lb ass could be competitive!!! (my dream auto-x car)
A nice Hot Rod
'69 Continental convertable (4-door w/ suicide back doors) Pimpin YO!!!!
To stay loyal:
22B
STi
As far as the best car ever, yeah right. I haven't been in one in a while but the few I have been in were typical POS dodges. One had a broken hood that wouldn't close, another had broken plastic all over it... They are certainly better now and if you gave me one I would take it but I just am not impressed with them. So, a viper new is < 90K right so the list of "better" cars (i.e. cars for the same or less money that I would rather have):
Any porshe that is < 90k
Z-06
any C6 vette (me likey)
M3
M5
AMG C55 ( think thats < 90K)
Elise (whenever it gets here)
S8
RS6
Supra Turbo
A full carbon fiber F-mod car so my 220lb ass could be competitive!!! (my dream auto-x car)
A nice Hot Rod
'69 Continental convertable (4-door w/ suicide back doors) Pimpin YO!!!!
To stay loyal:
22B
STi
| CivicSiRacer | 02-08-2004 11:41 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Steve '02 WRX [/i]
[B]Years ago someone showed up in a Viper in SS and did so well that all of the Corvette drivers complained that this expensive car was going to destroy the class, so it was moved straight to ASP (Certain other stock cars like the some of the Ferrari's and cars like the Porsche GT2 get this treatment as well). The idea with moving cars like that is that they are too expensive for the average competitor and someone could possibly buy the class championship. Other people feel that SS should be open to the best cars made.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah that driver was our Susquehanna regional executive Jim Harnish. He's the one that actually got the car excluded from racing in Solo II for a year or two cause he was just kicking butt :)
[B]Years ago someone showed up in a Viper in SS and did so well that all of the Corvette drivers complained that this expensive car was going to destroy the class, so it was moved straight to ASP (Certain other stock cars like the some of the Ferrari's and cars like the Porsche GT2 get this treatment as well). The idea with moving cars like that is that they are too expensive for the average competitor and someone could possibly buy the class championship. Other people feel that SS should be open to the best cars made.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah that driver was our Susquehanna regional executive Jim Harnish. He's the one that actually got the car excluded from racing in Solo II for a year or two cause he was just kicking butt :)
| trhoppe | 02-09-2004 05:24 PM |
Speaking of the elise. According to the evolution list, the sport package elise will come with yoko R-compounds from the factory.
I imagine that the sport package one will be the model in SS, and it should kick some Z06 butt........and its tranny would probably not break....
-Tom
I imagine that the sport package one will be the model in SS, and it should kick some Z06 butt........and its tranny would probably not break....
-Tom
| WRX-ECE | 02-09-2004 06:11 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]Speaking of the elise. According to the evolution list, the sport package elise will come with yoko R-compounds from the factory.
I imagine that the sport package one will be the model in SS, and it should kick some Z06 butt........and its tranny would probably not break....
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
If I could drive fast enough to beat a Z06 I'd consider getting one. Too bad I can't drive fast enough to beat an RS!!!!
[B]Speaking of the elise. According to the evolution list, the sport package elise will come with yoko R-compounds from the factory.
I imagine that the sport package one will be the model in SS, and it should kick some Z06 butt........and its tranny would probably not break....
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
If I could drive fast enough to beat a Z06 I'd consider getting one. Too bad I can't drive fast enough to beat an RS!!!!
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