| tt_ttf | 11-13-2004 11:14 PM |
SCCA's Sportcar Edititor - deplorable comment
�
�
I just got my copy of SCCA Dec Sportcars, and I really like being referred to as a "infection.....you simply amputate"
I understand the point he was trying to make but the choice of words were very poor indeed.
I just sent the following to Steve Johnston and Sports car
Re: Deplorable comment made by the editor of Sportcar
[font=Arial]I must voice my displeasure at the comments made by Richard James, Editor of Sportcars magazine, in his comment page in the Dec 04 issue.[/font]
[font=Arial] With the decision to drop Rally from the SCCA creating enough tension as it is, for the editor of the official publication of the organization to refer to a section of the membership as an �infection�.you simply amputate� is deplorable. [/font]
[font=Arial] All other comments and assurances made by the executive of the SCCA regarding this matter, are we to believe that this is what Board of Directors considers us? [/font]
[font=Arial]The very least, I believe that an apology is appropriate in the next issue of Sportscar.[/font]
[font=Arial] That aside, rest assured, even though I have an interest in other areas beyond Rally, I do not intend to continue being a member of an organization would allow this comment in print.[/font]
[font=Arial] Very poor taste indeed.[/font]
[img]http://forums.nasioc.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
I understand the point he was trying to make but the choice of words were very poor indeed.
I just sent the following to Steve Johnston and Sports car
Re: Deplorable comment made by the editor of Sportcar
[font=Arial]I must voice my displeasure at the comments made by Richard James, Editor of Sportcars magazine, in his comment page in the Dec 04 issue.[/font]
[font=Arial] With the decision to drop Rally from the SCCA creating enough tension as it is, for the editor of the official publication of the organization to refer to a section of the membership as an �infection�.you simply amputate� is deplorable. [/font]
[font=Arial] All other comments and assurances made by the executive of the SCCA regarding this matter, are we to believe that this is what Board of Directors considers us? [/font]
[font=Arial]The very least, I believe that an apology is appropriate in the next issue of Sportscar.[/font]
[font=Arial] That aside, rest assured, even though I have an interest in other areas beyond Rally, I do not intend to continue being a member of an organization would allow this comment in print.[/font]
[font=Arial] Very poor taste indeed.[/font]
[img]http://forums.nasioc.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
| Danno | 11-13-2004 11:43 PM |
I cringed when I read that too. I'm sure the flame storm is just starting.
| ANZAC_1915 | 11-14-2004 12:49 AM |
Their actions speak louder than words. And with what they've said in public about the insurance problems, I don't think it is going to help RA get insurance for events.
I'm certainly not renewing my SCCA membership.
I'm certainly not renewing my SCCA membership.
| zzyzx | 11-14-2004 12:51 AM |
Agreed. Start a thread on the SCCA BBS, if there isn't one there already. It'll get attention quicker that way.
| gregr01 | 11-14-2004 12:55 AM |
[QUOTE]I just got my copy of SCCA Dec Sportcars, and I really like being referred to as a "infection.....you simply amputate"[/QUOTE]
I don't know you, but I do know Richard, and I don't feel he owes you an apology. Your quote is taken out of context, as he's referring to the program, not its participants.
SportsCar is in a peculiar position; reporting information on the business of the SCCA to the membership and the motorsports community at large, while having to conform to the guidelines and control of the SCCA executives. Not a line that can be danced upon.
I don't know enough about the day-in-day-out business of rally to know why another group will have more success securing reasonably-priced insurance, but I do see a fundamental flaw in how events are generally conducted (allowing spectators access to the race course).
flame away.
gr.
(former SCCA pro racing PR director, 94-00)
I don't know you, but I do know Richard, and I don't feel he owes you an apology. Your quote is taken out of context, as he's referring to the program, not its participants.
SportsCar is in a peculiar position; reporting information on the business of the SCCA to the membership and the motorsports community at large, while having to conform to the guidelines and control of the SCCA executives. Not a line that can be danced upon.
I don't know enough about the day-in-day-out business of rally to know why another group will have more success securing reasonably-priced insurance, but I do see a fundamental flaw in how events are generally conducted (allowing spectators access to the race course).
flame away.
gr.
(former SCCA pro racing PR director, 94-00)
| zzyzx | 11-14-2004 01:08 AM |
From a simple PR perspective, it was a dumb comment. There's no arguing that. His comments have clearly already pissed people off, so defend away... but that does change how people feel about it. And whether you feel he owes the community an apology or not is irrelevant since you're clearly not part of said community.
| FaastLegacy | 11-14-2004 07:09 PM |
[QUOTE=gregr01]I don't know you, but I do know Richard, and I don't feel he owes you an apology. Your quote is taken out of context, as he's referring to the program, not its participants.
SportsCar is in a peculiar position; reporting information on the business of the SCCA to the membership and the motorsports community at large, while having to conform to the guidelines and control of the SCCA executives. Not a line that can be danced upon.
I don't know enough about the day-in-day-out business of rally to know why another group will have more success securing reasonably-priced insurance, but I do see a fundamental flaw in how events are generally conducted (allowing spectators access to the race course).
flame away.
gr.
(former SCCA pro racing PR director, 94-00)[/QUOTE]
Rally America will succeed because the people who run RA love the sport. They don't look upon rallying as a disease or as Richard so eloquently put, an "infection". I dun't really care anymore honestly, I don't auto-x and the local rally-xes aren't SCCA sanctioned so anything the SCCA does or says doesn't affect me anymore.
Rally will be better off without the SCCA than with.
-faast
SportsCar is in a peculiar position; reporting information on the business of the SCCA to the membership and the motorsports community at large, while having to conform to the guidelines and control of the SCCA executives. Not a line that can be danced upon.
I don't know enough about the day-in-day-out business of rally to know why another group will have more success securing reasonably-priced insurance, but I do see a fundamental flaw in how events are generally conducted (allowing spectators access to the race course).
flame away.
gr.
(former SCCA pro racing PR director, 94-00)[/QUOTE]
Rally America will succeed because the people who run RA love the sport. They don't look upon rallying as a disease or as Richard so eloquently put, an "infection". I dun't really care anymore honestly, I don't auto-x and the local rally-xes aren't SCCA sanctioned so anything the SCCA does or says doesn't affect me anymore.
Rally will be better off without the SCCA than with.
-faast
| randy zimmer | 11-14-2004 07:57 PM |
correctness gone wild
�
�
tata,
If you or a loved one is an amputee you have my best wishes.
If you are just mad at a long-time rally supporter telling the truth, get over it. I'd rather read some discriptive words than some beating around the bush sugar-coating.
SportsCar as a read is generally sleep-inducing.
What should his pennance be? Give back the ten bucks he got for the story?
rz
If you or a loved one is an amputee you have my best wishes.
If you are just mad at a long-time rally supporter telling the truth, get over it. I'd rather read some discriptive words than some beating around the bush sugar-coating.
SportsCar as a read is generally sleep-inducing.
What should his pennance be? Give back the ten bucks he got for the story?
rz
| M. Hurst | 11-14-2004 08:39 PM |
If a tree falls in the forest..
�
�
[QUOTE=randy zimmer]
SportsCar as a read is generally sleep-inducing.
rz[/QUOTE]
Outside of the few thousand SCCA member's who don't yank fastrack out and throw the rest away, it's completely invisible.
SportsCar as a read is generally sleep-inducing.
rz[/QUOTE]
Outside of the few thousand SCCA member's who don't yank fastrack out and throw the rest away, it's completely invisible.
| rupertberr | 11-14-2004 09:30 PM |
Richard is a good guy. I even think he likes Rally more then all the other SCCA activities. The only form of SCCA racing he participates in is RallyCross. Take a look at the title, "a hole in SCCA's heart."
That said he has to tow the company line.
Why are you getting all bent out of shape? Most people in Rally are excited about Rally America. SCCA normally kills good programs, remember Can Am?
I think Rally America will do a better job. Their biggest problem will be getting insurance at a resonable rate. SCCA's 75,000 members were carrying Rally the last few years. So come up with another word besides amputate that is politically correct: cut loose? abandon? let go? fire? given the pink slip? flush down toilet?
It's all semantics. What's done is done. Let's worry about the future.
PS I like some of the photos in SportsCar. :alien:
That said he has to tow the company line.
Why are you getting all bent out of shape? Most people in Rally are excited about Rally America. SCCA normally kills good programs, remember Can Am?
I think Rally America will do a better job. Their biggest problem will be getting insurance at a resonable rate. SCCA's 75,000 members were carrying Rally the last few years. So come up with another word besides amputate that is politically correct: cut loose? abandon? let go? fire? given the pink slip? flush down toilet?
It's all semantics. What's done is done. Let's worry about the future.
PS I like some of the photos in SportsCar. :alien:
| kwh29 | 11-14-2004 10:24 PM |
I couldn't believe he made the comment either when I read it tonight but really SCCA at this point has nothing to lose. It would be nice if they didn't beat the already dead horse and am on the fence about renewing my membership. I do participate in national Solo (slowly) so might have no choice but to keep my SCCA dues paid.
I hope Rally America does well and think their status as respected competitors and top logstics company will serve them well but fear that the insurance issue might kill all rally in the whole country. It's clear now that spectator control, or impossiblity thereof, is the issue. How RA, NASA, and the independent rallies handle this in the next 24 months will determine the future of the sport.
--Kevin H.
I hope Rally America does well and think their status as respected competitors and top logstics company will serve them well but fear that the insurance issue might kill all rally in the whole country. It's clear now that spectator control, or impossiblity thereof, is the issue. How RA, NASA, and the independent rallies handle this in the next 24 months will determine the future of the sport.
--Kevin H.
| RichardM | 11-14-2004 10:39 PM |
Had the election in the South West devision gone slightly differently, the vote to drop rally would have been 6 to 6 instead of 7 to 5. But this is not to say that the vote was wrong. Instead of dissing SCCA, support rally!!!
| solo-x | 11-15-2004 07:43 AM |
someone's a little over-sensitive. i don't think what he wrote is inflammatory at all. it was an analogy, and a good one at that. everything that flys under the SCCA's flag affects everything else that flys under the SCCA flag. if one program is becoming or has the potential to become harmful for the rest of the programs then something must be done. the whole article read like it was written by someone who will truly miss the program, wished there was another way, but realizes this might be the best thing overall.
nate
nate
| akuhner | 11-15-2004 09:38 AM |
The comment made sense to me...
| Subie Gal | 11-15-2004 10:34 AM |
[QUOTE=Glenn Wallace]I'm certainly not renewing my SCCA membership.[/QUOTE]
ditto.
and that comment nearly makes me regret I ever had one in the first place
SHAME ON YOU!! :furious:
ditto.
and that comment nearly makes me regret I ever had one in the first place
SHAME ON YOU!! :furious:
| Gravel Spray | 11-15-2004 01:01 PM |
what an a-s-s-w-i-p-e.
Peter
Peter
| 10th Warrior | 11-15-2004 01:57 PM |
[quote]the local rally-xes aren't SCCA sanctioned [/quote]
out of curiosity, what rally-x's are you refering to? i don't know of any non-SCCA events anywhere near MO.
out of curiosity, what rally-x's are you refering to? i don't know of any non-SCCA events anywhere near MO.
| sunnynw | 11-15-2004 06:53 PM |
[QUOTE=Glenn Wallace]Their actions speak louder than words. And with what they've said in public about the insurance problems, I don't think it is going to help RA get insurance for events.
I'm certainly not renewing my SCCA membership.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more with both statements! :mad:
I'm certainly not renewing my SCCA membership.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more with both statements! :mad:
| tt_ttf | 11-15-2004 10:30 PM |
Gregr01 and solo-x,
Firstly from what I can tell (and certainly Gregr01 made it clear) you are not part of rally so not likely to take offence in the first place.
As for analogy - that is exactly my point - He made a directly analogy between SCCA dropping Rally and amputating an infected limb.
You also should perhaps note that I have since heard back from Mr James and in his words "[font=Arial]Now, in hindsight, the amputation analogy might not have been the correct
one."[/font]
I understand what he was trying to say and his reply clarified that he meant the insurance but it was none the less badly put.
I have also heard back from a member of the PRB who also did not like the tone of that analogy.
I very much stand by what I said. The SCCA is being less than helpful with this comment and this move to stay in Rally-X and these proposed Sprint formats for Rally just serve to muddy the waters more.
RA is not getting Rally and it's feeder sports clear and free - SCCA is going to be directly competing with the "infected limb"
[QUOTE=solo-x]someone's a little over-sensitive. i don't think what he wrote is inflammatory at all. it was an analogy, and a good one at that. everything that flys under the SCCA's flag affects everything else that flys under the SCCA flag. if one program is becoming or has the potential to become harmful for the rest of the programs then something must be done. the whole article read like it was written by someone who will truly miss the program, wished there was another way, but realizes this might be the best thing overall.
nate[/QUOTE]
Firstly from what I can tell (and certainly Gregr01 made it clear) you are not part of rally so not likely to take offence in the first place.
As for analogy - that is exactly my point - He made a directly analogy between SCCA dropping Rally and amputating an infected limb.
You also should perhaps note that I have since heard back from Mr James and in his words "[font=Arial]Now, in hindsight, the amputation analogy might not have been the correct
one."[/font]
I understand what he was trying to say and his reply clarified that he meant the insurance but it was none the less badly put.
I have also heard back from a member of the PRB who also did not like the tone of that analogy.
I very much stand by what I said. The SCCA is being less than helpful with this comment and this move to stay in Rally-X and these proposed Sprint formats for Rally just serve to muddy the waters more.
RA is not getting Rally and it's feeder sports clear and free - SCCA is going to be directly competing with the "infected limb"
[QUOTE=solo-x]someone's a little over-sensitive. i don't think what he wrote is inflammatory at all. it was an analogy, and a good one at that. everything that flys under the SCCA's flag affects everything else that flys under the SCCA flag. if one program is becoming or has the potential to become harmful for the rest of the programs then something must be done. the whole article read like it was written by someone who will truly miss the program, wished there was another way, but realizes this might be the best thing overall.
nate[/QUOTE]
| solo-x | 11-16-2004 08:07 AM |
give me an example of an analogy that you'd like better that still carries the message of a loved branch of the SCCA having to be dropped to save the rest of the SCCA's programs.
imo, the REAL issue is that rally is getting dropped. a lot of people are rightly upset about that. get upset about the real issue, not what someone wrote in sportscar. if he had written "finally, we're rid of rally. good riddance!" THEN i could feel your pain. otherwise you guys are just displacing your anger into/unto something tangible.
nate
ps. i don't own a subaru either, guess i shouldn't like the cars....
imo, the REAL issue is that rally is getting dropped. a lot of people are rightly upset about that. get upset about the real issue, not what someone wrote in sportscar. if he had written "finally, we're rid of rally. good riddance!" THEN i could feel your pain. otherwise you guys are just displacing your anger into/unto something tangible.
nate
ps. i don't own a subaru either, guess i shouldn't like the cars....
| Draken | 11-16-2004 08:09 AM |
SportsCar is a waste of space and time. What gets me, is that the official publication of the SCCA is actualy outsourced. Richard is not an employee of SCCA, he works for an outside media/publication company.
A little "out of the box thinking" is good, but I have never really agreed with Richard's comments, nor the direction and vision he has for his publication.
Chris H.
A little "out of the box thinking" is good, but I have never really agreed with Richard's comments, nor the direction and vision he has for his publication.
Chris H.
| KC | 11-16-2004 08:23 AM |
[QUOTE=solo-x]give me an example of an analogy that you'd like better that still carries the message of a loved branch of the SCCA having to be dropped to save the rest of the SCCA's programs.
imo, the REAL issue is that rally is getting dropped. a lot of people are rightly upset about that. get upset about the real issue, not what someone wrote in sportscar. if he had written "finally, we're rid of rally. good riddance!" THEN i could feel your pain. otherwise you guys are just displacing your anger into/unto something tangible.
nate
ps. i don't own a subaru either, guess i shouldn't like the cars....[/QUOTE]
Nate, there's quite a bit of animosity of Rally folk vs. SCCA. Most rallyers already know that it's a better move getting away from SCCA and now that that has happened, many aren't going to renew their membership, with good reason.
Most rallyists that I personally know loathe the SCCA. So it's no wonder that people will find anything they can to confirm and enforce their beliefs about the SCCA. Since it was published in an official capacity in SportsCar, it's just as good as the SCCA itself endorsing it all.
It would have been better if no anologies were made and it was a cut and dry issue.
To all ... Rally is in new hands. The move is done and over with... give up on bashing the SCCA and move on with your new lives with RA. No use crying over spilled milk.
imo, the REAL issue is that rally is getting dropped. a lot of people are rightly upset about that. get upset about the real issue, not what someone wrote in sportscar. if he had written "finally, we're rid of rally. good riddance!" THEN i could feel your pain. otherwise you guys are just displacing your anger into/unto something tangible.
nate
ps. i don't own a subaru either, guess i shouldn't like the cars....[/QUOTE]
Nate, there's quite a bit of animosity of Rally folk vs. SCCA. Most rallyers already know that it's a better move getting away from SCCA and now that that has happened, many aren't going to renew their membership, with good reason.
Most rallyists that I personally know loathe the SCCA. So it's no wonder that people will find anything they can to confirm and enforce their beliefs about the SCCA. Since it was published in an official capacity in SportsCar, it's just as good as the SCCA itself endorsing it all.
It would have been better if no anologies were made and it was a cut and dry issue.
To all ... Rally is in new hands. The move is done and over with... give up on bashing the SCCA and move on with your new lives with RA. No use crying over spilled milk.
| akuhner | 11-16-2004 11:13 AM |
[QUOTE=solo-x]give me an example of an analogy that you'd like better that still carries the message of a loved branch of the SCCA having to be dropped to save the rest of the SCCA's programs.[/QUOTE]
So what you are saying is that if your leg was infected and you had to cut it off you wouldn't miss your leg and would not wish you still had it? Interesting. ;) :lol:
The anaolgy is perfectly fine, he's only backing off under public pressure. Rally was an arm of the SCCA that comprised only 3% of their membership, yet the insurance costs were balloning, and the pending lawsuits have the potential (however remote) to bankrupt the enitre SCCA. The program was already costing more than it was bringing in, so after much debate that arm got cut off. How is that not a justifiable reaction? Especially knowing that the rally memebers don't really like the SCCA to begin with, they came to the only conclusion they could.
If you want to discuss how they've handled it then you can really get on their case. Some ProRally Board members found out from a press release. We will eventually be better off without the SCCA, thanks to Doug Havir and Rally America. :)
Alex
So what you are saying is that if your leg was infected and you had to cut it off you wouldn't miss your leg and would not wish you still had it? Interesting. ;) :lol:
The anaolgy is perfectly fine, he's only backing off under public pressure. Rally was an arm of the SCCA that comprised only 3% of their membership, yet the insurance costs were balloning, and the pending lawsuits have the potential (however remote) to bankrupt the enitre SCCA. The program was already costing more than it was bringing in, so after much debate that arm got cut off. How is that not a justifiable reaction? Especially knowing that the rally memebers don't really like the SCCA to begin with, they came to the only conclusion they could.
If you want to discuss how they've handled it then you can really get on their case. Some ProRally Board members found out from a press release. We will eventually be better off without the SCCA, thanks to Doug Havir and Rally America. :)
Alex
| rupertberr | 11-16-2004 12:05 PM |
For those complainers who want to retroactively renounce your SCCA membership please don't forget to hand in all your SCCA Rally results and experience as well like it never happened. For those who are forward thinking use your experience and get off your butts to make Rally America better then the SCCA ever was.
[QUOTE=KC]
To all ... Rally is in new hands. The move is done and over with... give up on bashing the SCCA and move on with your new lives with RA. No use crying over spilled milk.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=KC]
To all ... Rally is in new hands. The move is done and over with... give up on bashing the SCCA and move on with your new lives with RA. No use crying over spilled milk.[/QUOTE]
| tt_ttf | 11-16-2004 03:03 PM |
That branch was not loved by some and as a result of this letter to SCCA, I know the PRB were not told by anyone official but was by the person who's agenda it was to drop Stage rally.
We can all agree to disagree (and even Richard James has stated to me that he understand exactly what I mean - and I get the real impression I am not the only one that has told them as much!) Richard as an SCCA member is also not particularly impressed by what/how it was done either.
I am not going to stop helping at rallies just because of this but I have every right to be pissed about the fact that as a direct result of this, I have less events to help at.
Any way you cut it, the analogy was not the right thing to say.
'nuff said - lets just hope we all have a sport to go enjoy - we still don't know if we do or if any one can afford it as nothing is published yet
[QUOTE=solo-x]give me an example of an analogy that you'd like better that still carries the message of a loved branch of the SCCA having to be dropped to save the rest of the SCCA's programs.
imo, the REAL issue is that rally is getting dropped. a lot of people are rightly upset about that. get upset about the real issue, not what someone wrote in sportscar. if he had written "finally, we're rid of rally. good riddance!" THEN i could feel your pain. otherwise you guys are just displacing your anger into/unto something tangible.
nate
ps. i don't own a subaru either, guess i shouldn't like the cars....[/QUOTE]
We can all agree to disagree (and even Richard James has stated to me that he understand exactly what I mean - and I get the real impression I am not the only one that has told them as much!) Richard as an SCCA member is also not particularly impressed by what/how it was done either.
I am not going to stop helping at rallies just because of this but I have every right to be pissed about the fact that as a direct result of this, I have less events to help at.
Any way you cut it, the analogy was not the right thing to say.
'nuff said - lets just hope we all have a sport to go enjoy - we still don't know if we do or if any one can afford it as nothing is published yet
[QUOTE=solo-x]give me an example of an analogy that you'd like better that still carries the message of a loved branch of the SCCA having to be dropped to save the rest of the SCCA's programs.
imo, the REAL issue is that rally is getting dropped. a lot of people are rightly upset about that. get upset about the real issue, not what someone wrote in sportscar. if he had written "finally, we're rid of rally. good riddance!" THEN i could feel your pain. otherwise you guys are just displacing your anger into/unto something tangible.
nate
ps. i don't own a subaru either, guess i shouldn't like the cars....[/QUOTE]
| AngryBlueRS | 11-16-2004 10:26 PM |
I had to reread the comment as I was also surprised as to how it was worded. Seemed to me like it was pure PR spin. You don't want the readership to think SCCA is cutting back or shrinking, so let's refer to it as something negative (an infection) so the reader sees this as a positive action.
I guess this means we'll see a reduction in the price of membership as well as Solo, RallyX, etc. registeration now that this "problem" has been amputated, right? ;)
Chris
I guess this means we'll see a reduction in the price of membership as well as Solo, RallyX, etc. registeration now that this "problem" has been amputated, right? ;)
Chris
| SgWRX | 11-20-2004 08:14 AM |
i've been duped!
for a few days now i've been "offended!" "pi##ed off!" "outraged!" "deeply shaken at my core!" and "betrayed!"
but then i read the whole article and not just one or two words of it.
no, there's no spin here! :banana:
for a few days now i've been "offended!" "pi##ed off!" "outraged!" "deeply shaken at my core!" and "betrayed!"
but then i read the whole article and not just one or two words of it.
no, there's no spin here! :banana:
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét