| Idjiit | 09-12-2003 12:20 PM |
See ya, Colin!
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Citroen are keepign Sainz instead...
[url]http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/News/2003/012/2003_CitroenKeepCarlos.htm[/url]
The end of an era?
[url]http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/News/2003/012/2003_CitroenKeepCarlos.htm[/url]
The end of an era?
| ElGranBan� | 09-12-2003 12:45 PM |
boogity boogity boogity! :lol:
its NASCAR time
its NASCAR time
| shrieden | 09-12-2003 12:51 PM |
I dont think this is the last we will see of Messer McRae:
[URL=http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/News/2003/012/2003_R_AUS_McRaeWRCBusiness.htm]McRae, McRae, McRae.[/URL]
[URL=http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/News/2003/012/2003_R_AUS_McRaeWRCBusiness.htm]McRae, McRae, McRae.[/URL]
| trinidriver | 09-12-2003 01:26 PM |
Nuff respect to Sainz. He almost didn't have a ride this year, took a pay-cut, lost his longtiem co-pilot, and then won next year's ride fair and square.
| tt_ttf | 09-12-2003 01:40 PM |
I have to agree with Colin's comments made before Rally Oz
Basically that you have to retire at some point but that it's nice if it is by your choice and not because of stupid rules changing
He might not be winning lots but he is still better than a lot of other WRC drivers.
He is just the guy caught out with this stupid musical chairs game FIA is playing
Basically that you have to retire at some point but that it's nice if it is by your choice and not because of stupid rules changing
He might not be winning lots but he is still better than a lot of other WRC drivers.
He is just the guy caught out with this stupid musical chairs game FIA is playing
| ShockWave | 09-12-2003 02:07 PM |
If all the rule changes that combined to create this situation were intended, as they have marketed them, to make things easier to enter the WRC than this statement should really worry them,
Last week, the Scot admitted that he would be open to buying a drive with one of the top teams, although he would not be eligible to score points in the manufacturers' championship.
"Trying to find that kind of money this late in the year is going to be hard work, but if that's what it takes, then that's what we'll do," McRae told AUTOSPORT. "If that doesn't work and I have to take a year out of the sport, then I'll just have to do that."
I'm sorry, but you are not going to get any increase in participation if you can't field a single privateer. Especially if you can't do it with the McRae name attached.
Last week, the Scot admitted that he would be open to buying a drive with one of the top teams, although he would not be eligible to score points in the manufacturers' championship.
"Trying to find that kind of money this late in the year is going to be hard work, but if that's what it takes, then that's what we'll do," McRae told AUTOSPORT. "If that doesn't work and I have to take a year out of the sport, then I'll just have to do that."
I'm sorry, but you are not going to get any increase in participation if you can't field a single privateer. Especially if you can't do it with the McRae name attached.
| rogue | 09-12-2003 03:26 PM |
[QUOTE]With Sainz taking the second seat at Citroen, there are now no top-line drives available to team-mate Colin McRae for next year. His only manufacturer choices would be with one of the smaller WRC teams, such as Skoda, Hyundai or [b]Mitsubishi[/b]. He could also finance a drive himself with the likes of Peugeot or Subaru, but he would be not eligible to score manufacturer points.[/QUOTE]
Ha! I'm sorry, just funny seeing Mitsu lumped in like that... though of course it's accurate since they dropped their team last year.
Ha! I'm sorry, just funny seeing Mitsu lumped in like that... though of course it's accurate since they dropped their team last year.
| tt_ttf | 09-12-2003 03:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rogue [/i]
[B]
Ha! I'm sorry, just funny seeing Mitsu lumped in like that... though of course it's accurate since they dropped their team last year. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah it is a little strange but then I suspose it is because no one knows yet what the level of committment will be when they return.........
Given they seem to have been quiet about it, I would not be surprised if they were trying to get Colin cheap now that he is kinda between a rock and a hard place.
At least the Evo's will be competitive - the same cannot be said for Skoda or Hyundai
[B]
Ha! I'm sorry, just funny seeing Mitsu lumped in like that... though of course it's accurate since they dropped their team last year. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah it is a little strange but then I suspose it is because no one knows yet what the level of committment will be when they return.........
Given they seem to have been quiet about it, I would not be surprised if they were trying to get Colin cheap now that he is kinda between a rock and a hard place.
At least the Evo's will be competitive - the same cannot be said for Skoda or Hyundai
| shrieden | 09-12-2003 04:52 PM |
Whether the EVO is competetive or not remains to be seen, remember, they were the title winning machine for TM and then took their first attempt at a WRC car (The 6 was a Group A machine) they failed miserably. They finished dead last, AFTER Skoda and Hyundai
| Coati | 09-12-2003 05:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ElGranBan� [/i]
[B]boogity boogity boogity! :lol:
its NASCAR time [/B][/QUOTE]
The rule changes were a result of a bribe by Fox/Speed to push Colin into NASCAR. This segue is an effort to keep the WRC viewers after the commencement of next year's Speed Channel "ALL NASCAR, ALL THE TIME" broadcasting.:disco:
[B]boogity boogity boogity! :lol:
its NASCAR time [/B][/QUOTE]
The rule changes were a result of a bribe by Fox/Speed to push Colin into NASCAR. This segue is an effort to keep the WRC viewers after the commencement of next year's Speed Channel "ALL NASCAR, ALL THE TIME" broadcasting.:disco:
| tt_ttf | 09-12-2003 07:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shrieden [/i]
[B]Whether the EVO is competetive or not remains to be seen, remember, they were the title winning machine for TM and then took their first attempt at a WRC car (The 6 was a Group A machine) they failed miserably. They finished dead last, AFTER Skoda and Hyundai [/B][/QUOTE]
I think that you will find a lot of people will disagree with you
Most people in the rally business at say a national or state level will tell you that if you compare an STi with an EVO in Group A or N trim, it is no contest.
Look at the ARC and US series and you can quite clearly see that. With the ARC, you had a WRC level driver in Possum but in most classes at ARC and state level, the EVO dominates. With the US series, the issue is that the EVO has only just become available so there is not many but that will change
There is a very good reason why David Higgins is walking away with the title this year and its not because the EVO is no good nor better than the Subaru's
At WRC level it is another matter but Mitsu killed the WRC team because Ralliart couldn't get it's act together and make sure that was translated into WRC trim as well.
[B]Whether the EVO is competetive or not remains to be seen, remember, they were the title winning machine for TM and then took their first attempt at a WRC car (The 6 was a Group A machine) they failed miserably. They finished dead last, AFTER Skoda and Hyundai [/B][/QUOTE]
I think that you will find a lot of people will disagree with you
Most people in the rally business at say a national or state level will tell you that if you compare an STi with an EVO in Group A or N trim, it is no contest.
Look at the ARC and US series and you can quite clearly see that. With the ARC, you had a WRC level driver in Possum but in most classes at ARC and state level, the EVO dominates. With the US series, the issue is that the EVO has only just become available so there is not many but that will change
There is a very good reason why David Higgins is walking away with the title this year and its not because the EVO is no good nor better than the Subaru's
At WRC level it is another matter but Mitsu killed the WRC team because Ralliart couldn't get it's act together and make sure that was translated into WRC trim as well.
| shrieden | 09-12-2003 07:51 PM |
I am not saying the EVO is a crap car, group N success doesn't give an indication of WRC performance. The fact was that Ralliart and Mitsu Failed with their 1st attempt at a WRC class car so badly that they pulled out of the sport for a year. I don't think they will get the success they enjoyed with the 6 instantly because they have been out of competition for a year, with AMR entering select events. They needed that year to catch everyone else up, and i think they will find it hard to compete with the current big 4 teams. With Pannizzi they will have an equalizer on the tarmac events, but i think they will still be finishing no better than 5th.
However, this is all my opinion, and not to be taken seriously :p
However, this is all my opinion, and not to be taken seriously :p
| Kitsune | 09-13-2003 12:34 AM |
Ralliart also had to deal with some very serious accidents that injured, two of their navigators and one driver, Alister I think? Not thinking it was just about cost and poor car preparation
| OnTheGas | 09-13-2003 01:59 PM |
Group N STi vs EVO
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by tt_ttf [/i]
[B]Most people in the rally business at say a national or state level will tell you that if you compare an STi with an EVO in Group A or N trim, it is no contest.
Look at the ARC and US series and you can quite clearly see that. With the ARC, you had a WRC level driver in Possum but in most classes at ARC and state level, the EVO dominates. With the US series, the issue is that the EVO has only just become available so there is not many but that will change
There is a very good reason why David Higgins is walking away with the title this year and its not because the EVO is no good nor better than the Subaru's[/B][/QUOTE]Is this true, though?
Regarding David Higgins here in the states, I received the impression from others that Higgins driving abilities are above his competitors' abilities, which has helped him rack up his championships.
And in the group N, or production car trim, I have the impression that Prodrive has rebounded, and surpassed the EVO. The FIA Production Car World Rally Championship standings show Subaru drivers at the top there...
And regarding ARC, Subaru is leading the championship. So I'm curious why folks are saying the STI does not match up to the EVO.
I'm not that knowledgeable about these levels of rallying, so pardon my ignorance! :)
[B]Most people in the rally business at say a national or state level will tell you that if you compare an STi with an EVO in Group A or N trim, it is no contest.
Look at the ARC and US series and you can quite clearly see that. With the ARC, you had a WRC level driver in Possum but in most classes at ARC and state level, the EVO dominates. With the US series, the issue is that the EVO has only just become available so there is not many but that will change
There is a very good reason why David Higgins is walking away with the title this year and its not because the EVO is no good nor better than the Subaru's[/B][/QUOTE]Is this true, though?
Regarding David Higgins here in the states, I received the impression from others that Higgins driving abilities are above his competitors' abilities, which has helped him rack up his championships.
And in the group N, or production car trim, I have the impression that Prodrive has rebounded, and surpassed the EVO. The FIA Production Car World Rally Championship standings show Subaru drivers at the top there...
And regarding ARC, Subaru is leading the championship. So I'm curious why folks are saying the STI does not match up to the EVO.
I'm not that knowledgeable about these levels of rallying, so pardon my ignorance! :)
| tt_ttf | 09-13-2003 08:05 PM |
Re: Group N STi vs EVO
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[B]Is this true, though?
Regarding David Higgins here in the states, I received the impression from others that Higgins driving abilities are above his competitors' abilities, which has helped him rack up his championships.
And in the group N, or production car trim, I have the impression that Prodrive has rebounded, and surpassed the EVO. The FIA Production Car World Rally Championship standings show Subaru drivers at the top there...
And regarding ARC, Subaru is leading the championship. So I'm curious why folks are saying the STI does not match up to the EVO.
I'm not that knowledgeable about these levels of rallying, so pardon my ignorance! :) [/B][/QUOTE]
All things being equal (budget, driver etc) the EVO is a better base car to make into a rally car than an STi - for similar reasons why the road EVO handles better than the STi does - it's not a lot in it but there is a clear margin
I would not say that David is more skilled than Mark was but David has well and truely dominated the series way out of proportion for his skils alone. He has a good well built car under him as well - when he was with AVSports, he did not have such dominance else he would not have excercised the "factory" clause in his AV contract so quickly
As for ARC - the Subaru team is far better funded than the rest of the teams and at that level that can make all the difference. But at Group N level, Ed Ordynski has been dominate and it is not his skills - his competion are just as good but his car package has on the whole been better for a number of years
As for the FIA standing - Mitsu doesn't count as they are not officially racing in the WRC! Privateers can't compete for that.
My comments came from discussions with several sources who build/race rally cars for a living
[B]Is this true, though?
Regarding David Higgins here in the states, I received the impression from others that Higgins driving abilities are above his competitors' abilities, which has helped him rack up his championships.
And in the group N, or production car trim, I have the impression that Prodrive has rebounded, and surpassed the EVO. The FIA Production Car World Rally Championship standings show Subaru drivers at the top there...
And regarding ARC, Subaru is leading the championship. So I'm curious why folks are saying the STI does not match up to the EVO.
I'm not that knowledgeable about these levels of rallying, so pardon my ignorance! :) [/B][/QUOTE]
All things being equal (budget, driver etc) the EVO is a better base car to make into a rally car than an STi - for similar reasons why the road EVO handles better than the STi does - it's not a lot in it but there is a clear margin
I would not say that David is more skilled than Mark was but David has well and truely dominated the series way out of proportion for his skils alone. He has a good well built car under him as well - when he was with AVSports, he did not have such dominance else he would not have excercised the "factory" clause in his AV contract so quickly
As for ARC - the Subaru team is far better funded than the rest of the teams and at that level that can make all the difference. But at Group N level, Ed Ordynski has been dominate and it is not his skills - his competion are just as good but his car package has on the whole been better for a number of years
As for the FIA standing - Mitsu doesn't count as they are not officially racing in the WRC! Privateers can't compete for that.
My comments came from discussions with several sources who build/race rally cars for a living
| Zuffy | 09-14-2003 03:01 PM |
Sigh, it's sad to see that Colin is out of a ride. I hoped that the seat left by Makinen would have been taken by McRae instead of Burns. Boy then Subaru would have my two favorite rally drivers, and Colin would be back in the team that he had is glory days in.
| RebelINS | 09-14-2003 05:57 PM |
SOA should sign Colin for SCCA prorally. That would definitely give some more spark to US rally IMO.
-Wes
-Wes
| Idjiit | 09-15-2003 09:13 AM |
Colin has indicated in the past that he'd love to be on the same team as Alister. Having them both at Mitsubishi may not be as crazy as it sounds...
| dwx | 09-15-2003 04:41 PM |
Re: Re: Group N STi vs EVO
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by tt_ttf [/i]
[B]
All things being equal (budget, driver etc) the EVO is a better base car to make into a rally car than an STi - for similar reasons why the road EVO handles better than the STi does - it's not a lot in it but there is a clear margin
I would not say that David is more skilled than Mark was but David has well and truely dominated the series way out of proportion for his skils alone. He has a good well built car under him as well - when he was with AVSports, he did not have such dominance else he would not have excercised the "factory" clause in his AV contract so quickly
As for ARC - the Subaru team is far better funded than the rest of the teams and at that level that can make all the difference. But at Group N level, Ed Ordynski has been dominate and it is not his skills - his competion are just as good but his car package has on the whole been better for a number of years
As for the FIA standing - Mitsu doesn't count as they are not officially racing in the WRC! Privateers can't compete for that.
My comments came from discussions with several sources who build/race rally cars for a living [/B][/QUOTE]
I think David Higgins is just that much better than everyone else, I really don't think the car has much to do with it. He was very dominant with AV Sports in a car that cost much less to build than the Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai counterparts. Mitsubishi has a whole lot more money to throw at a driver than AV Sport... If he was driving the same AV Sport WRX he drove last year, he'd be just as far ahead. Having a years experience and driving all the rallies makes a big difference.
At the level Ed Ordynski is at it comes down to driver skill, not funding. All those that are participating at the top of that championship have well developed cars. He is driving a factory built car from Ralliart Australia, it's not something he built in his garage...
I would agree that the older EVOs had an edge over the Impreza, but with the 2003 Spec C and EVO 8 RS, the Spec C with the dual scroll turbo and whatnot is the car to have.
[B]
All things being equal (budget, driver etc) the EVO is a better base car to make into a rally car than an STi - for similar reasons why the road EVO handles better than the STi does - it's not a lot in it but there is a clear margin
I would not say that David is more skilled than Mark was but David has well and truely dominated the series way out of proportion for his skils alone. He has a good well built car under him as well - when he was with AVSports, he did not have such dominance else he would not have excercised the "factory" clause in his AV contract so quickly
As for ARC - the Subaru team is far better funded than the rest of the teams and at that level that can make all the difference. But at Group N level, Ed Ordynski has been dominate and it is not his skills - his competion are just as good but his car package has on the whole been better for a number of years
As for the FIA standing - Mitsu doesn't count as they are not officially racing in the WRC! Privateers can't compete for that.
My comments came from discussions with several sources who build/race rally cars for a living [/B][/QUOTE]
I think David Higgins is just that much better than everyone else, I really don't think the car has much to do with it. He was very dominant with AV Sports in a car that cost much less to build than the Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai counterparts. Mitsubishi has a whole lot more money to throw at a driver than AV Sport... If he was driving the same AV Sport WRX he drove last year, he'd be just as far ahead. Having a years experience and driving all the rallies makes a big difference.
At the level Ed Ordynski is at it comes down to driver skill, not funding. All those that are participating at the top of that championship have well developed cars. He is driving a factory built car from Ralliart Australia, it's not something he built in his garage...
I would agree that the older EVOs had an edge over the Impreza, but with the 2003 Spec C and EVO 8 RS, the Spec C with the dual scroll turbo and whatnot is the car to have.
| cvalle-sd | 09-15-2003 04:55 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Idjiit [/i]
[B]Colin has indicated in the past that he'd love to be on the same team as Alister. Having them both at Mitsubishi may not be as crazy as it sounds... [/B][/QUOTE]
If I were Mr. Cowan, I'd get the Ugliest Brothers in the History of Motorsport locked down - they could do worse, and can get both for a bargain.
[B]Colin has indicated in the past that he'd love to be on the same team as Alister. Having them both at Mitsubishi may not be as crazy as it sounds... [/B][/QUOTE]
If I were Mr. Cowan, I'd get the Ugliest Brothers in the History of Motorsport locked down - they could do worse, and can get both for a bargain.
| shrieden | 09-15-2003 06:54 PM |
Except Gilles Panizzi has been signed up and the FIA has ruled that the teams cant have a third driver that scores manufactors points period!!! So It can either be Colin or Alaister, but not both.
| PurePower | 09-15-2003 09:05 PM |
David Richards has pledged to help Colin find a drive.
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=24605&s=8[/url]
"WRC rights holder David Richards has insisted that the championship "needs" Colin McRae to continue next season, and has pledged to help the Scot find a drive for next season after current team Citroen dropped him in favour of Carlos Sainz."
"...Richards reckons that there is a "50-50" chance of McRae, arguably the WRC's most famous driver, returning next season."
""I want Colin in the championship and I am doing everything I can at the moment to try and secure him a drive," said Richards, according to Reuters. "My objective is to make sure he's in the championship for sure because he is one of the icons of the sport and we need to keep him there in the future.""
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=24605&s=8[/url]
"WRC rights holder David Richards has insisted that the championship "needs" Colin McRae to continue next season, and has pledged to help the Scot find a drive for next season after current team Citroen dropped him in favour of Carlos Sainz."
"...Richards reckons that there is a "50-50" chance of McRae, arguably the WRC's most famous driver, returning next season."
""I want Colin in the championship and I am doing everything I can at the moment to try and secure him a drive," said Richards, according to Reuters. "My objective is to make sure he's in the championship for sure because he is one of the icons of the sport and we need to keep him there in the future.""
| AndyRoo | 09-15-2003 09:42 PM |
Does this mean the next Colin McRae video game is gonna be a nascar game?
| tt_ttf | 09-16-2003 12:15 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PurePower [/i]
[B]David Richards has pledged to help Colin find a drive.
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=24605&s=8[/url]
"WRC rights holder David Richards has insisted that the championship "needs" Colin McRae to continue next season, and has pledged to help the Scot find a drive for next season after current team Citroen dropped him in favour of Carlos Sainz."
"...Richards reckons that there is a "50-50" chance of McRae, arguably the WRC's most famous driver, returning next season."
""I want Colin in the championship and I am doing everything I can at the moment to try and secure him a drive," said Richards, according to Reuters. "My objective is to make sure he's in the championship for sure because he is one of the icons of the sport and we need to keep him there in the future."" [/B][/QUOTE]
All I can say is that maybe David Richards should have done a better job of making sure FIA did play games in the first place..........
[B]David Richards has pledged to help Colin find a drive.
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=24605&s=8[/url]
"WRC rights holder David Richards has insisted that the championship "needs" Colin McRae to continue next season, and has pledged to help the Scot find a drive for next season after current team Citroen dropped him in favour of Carlos Sainz."
"...Richards reckons that there is a "50-50" chance of McRae, arguably the WRC's most famous driver, returning next season."
""I want Colin in the championship and I am doing everything I can at the moment to try and secure him a drive," said Richards, according to Reuters. "My objective is to make sure he's in the championship for sure because he is one of the icons of the sport and we need to keep him there in the future."" [/B][/QUOTE]
All I can say is that maybe David Richards should have done a better job of making sure FIA did play games in the first place..........
| TV3WRX | 09-16-2003 07:40 PM |
I'm not the biggest fan of Colin the person, but I'd so miss not having him in WRC. Having said that, I think it'd be FANTASIC to have him do NASCAR, even if it were just a part time gig. Having him there would shed so much light on how cheesy it really is, and how talentless the drivers are.
"Colin was you car loose or tight today?"
" What, are you bloody joohkin? It was bloody seidwehz"
Oh yeah. I'd pay to see that.
"Colin was you car loose or tight today?"
" What, are you bloody joohkin? It was bloody seidwehz"
Oh yeah. I'd pay to see that.
| Dr. WOT | 09-16-2003 10:05 PM |
That would be funny, but I think he'd get lost in the mix of NASCAR.
I agree, the WRC would be poorer without Colin. Love him or hate him, his no-holds-barred approach to driving is thrilling to watch.
I agree, the WRC would be poorer without Colin. Love him or hate him, his no-holds-barred approach to driving is thrilling to watch.
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