| baileypicks24 | 01-19-2005 09:26 PM |
Track cars: Honda CRX/Civic vs. Mazda Miata
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I decided that tracking the daily driven Scooby is taking its toll, and it'll be smarter in the long-run to invest in a cheap track car. Anywhooo...
I seem to have narrowed down my list of potential track cars to the older CRX/Civic (late 80s to early 90s) and the older Miata (early 90s).
Other than the obvious RWD advantage (I suppose this depends on personal preference), the Mazdas seem to have an "older" (old is good ;)) following. Parts seem to be more available on the Honda. What advantages/disadvantages do you guys know of, and what would be the more financially sound decision? Keep in mind I'm only 20, and hell no I won't wait until I get a job LOL :p
It will be used for track (mainly VIR, Summit point) and of course, autox!
So what do you guys think???
Thanks in advance :alien: :alien:
[img]http://www.sccapro.com/news/press/02-miata-mccarthy-hernandez-360.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Photos/01school1/01bhf28.jpg[/img]
(Pics from sccapro.com and scca-milwaukee.org :))
I seem to have narrowed down my list of potential track cars to the older CRX/Civic (late 80s to early 90s) and the older Miata (early 90s).
Other than the obvious RWD advantage (I suppose this depends on personal preference), the Mazdas seem to have an "older" (old is good ;)) following. Parts seem to be more available on the Honda. What advantages/disadvantages do you guys know of, and what would be the more financially sound decision? Keep in mind I'm only 20, and hell no I won't wait until I get a job LOL :p
It will be used for track (mainly VIR, Summit point) and of course, autox!
So what do you guys think???
Thanks in advance :alien: :alien:
[img]http://www.sccapro.com/news/press/02-miata-mccarthy-hernandez-360.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Photos/01school1/01bhf28.jpg[/img]
(Pics from sccapro.com and scca-milwaukee.org :))
| Burnall4 | 01-19-2005 09:47 PM |
Since I will be purchasing a ITA/s CRX in the future I will have to say CRX. The reason is because with little suspension mods a 80 hp CRX can handle not only like it is on rails but it makes the rails it rides on.It will out handle the Miata, as I have seen this in person at Summit Point and VIR.I have even seen one chase down an Porsche TT and pass it through the turns. The straights were another matter. I direct your attention to the ITS CRXs running in SCCA, NASA. As I do not own either I can only go on what is told to me, and the best drivers that I know all drive CRXs, and they wouldn't lie to me, nor do their results.
Gray
P.S. Go to Honda-Tech.com and the Racing section, look for Catch22 posts, he is a great driver, and he runs a CRX. He also started Honda-Challenge. At least I think he is still running his CRX. Hope this helps
P.P.S. Miata = $$$$$$$$ for parts like to get 10 more hp cost a couple thousand dollars, more than anything you can do to a CRX/civic.
Gray
P.S. Go to Honda-Tech.com and the Racing section, look for Catch22 posts, he is a great driver, and he runs a CRX. He also started Honda-Challenge. At least I think he is still running his CRX. Hope this helps
P.P.S. Miata = $$$$$$$$ for parts like to get 10 more hp cost a couple thousand dollars, more than anything you can do to a CRX/civic.
| baileypicks24 | 01-19-2005 09:49 PM |
Ah, great information. Verry appreciated thank you!
| baileypicks24 | 01-19-2005 10:38 PM |
I can't find 'catch22'...but I'm definitely reading up on the Honda Challenge. :)
Would you guys reccomend going with a completely stock car? Raced before? Modded? Is it really a bad idea to buy a car that's already been prepped for the track?
Would you guys reccomend going with a completely stock car? Raced before? Modded? Is it really a bad idea to buy a car that's already been prepped for the track?
| Burnall4 | 01-19-2005 10:47 PM |
if you buy a car with RACE history, you can pick and chose, i am buying a fully built car personally, its cheaper that way.
When ever I do buy one I will just surf the forsale sections on the SCCA and NASSA boards and buy a winning or contending CRX.
Let me find all of his post, his name is Scott Giles, karl Shultz and him started it now its nationally known, and i would like to say i was an unoffical consultant. I kept Karl sane while trying to get it going.
When ever I do buy one I will just surf the forsale sections on the SCCA and NASSA boards and buy a winning or contending CRX.
Let me find all of his post, his name is Scott Giles, karl Shultz and him started it now its nationally known, and i would like to say i was an unoffical consultant. I kept Karl sane while trying to get it going.
| WRX-ECE | 01-19-2005 10:47 PM |
I don't know much about either except what people tell me, but: I don't think the old Miatas are $$$$$ to make trackable. One of the main reasons the SCCA runs Spec-Miata is because of the dollars/performance ratio and the availablilty of them. I can tell you that I see a heck of a lot more Miatas at Auto-X then I do CRXs.
Or you could buy a 2.2L coupe for cheap and race that...
Jeremy
Or you could buy a 2.2L coupe for cheap and race that...
Jeremy
| turboICE | 01-19-2005 11:29 PM |
If you run in Spec Miata learn body work.
| baileypicks24 | 01-20-2005 12:35 AM |
You know, after doing some research I'm beginning to lean towards starting out in a completely STOCK car in autocross, just to get to know the car. It's a totally different platform and one would be foolish to jump right onto the track without knowing the car.
I suppose I need to find out how competetive a stock Miata would run in it's class (E Stock if I'm not mistaken) vs. the older Civic (H Stock)...
I suppose I need to find out how competetive a stock Miata would run in it's class (E Stock if I'm not mistaken) vs. the older Civic (H Stock)...
| Burnall4 | 01-20-2005 12:43 AM |
[quote]I can tell you that I see a heck of a lot more Miatas at Auto-X then I do CRXs[/quote]
Key word Autox. Road Race/Autox = Civic :rolleyes:
Key word Autox. Road Race/Autox = Civic :rolleyes:
| turboICE | 01-20-2005 09:35 AM |
[QUOTE=baileypicks24]one would be foolish to jump right onto the track without knowing the car.[/QUOTE]
Color me foolish the first time I drove my 240SX ITA/PS2/ST5 race ka was at my competition license evaluation followed by a sprint race. It depends on experience and comfort level. Budget wise taking a stock vehicle and eventually building it to spec for racing is much more expensive than getting a prepared car and learning it in that condition.
There is nothing so special about a prepped spec miata or HC/ITA CRX that you could not take it right onto the track if you are beyond the novice level in track days. I mean if the car is sorted all you are dealing with is a car with the proper safety equipment, much improved suspension but not much more than stock power.
Color me foolish the first time I drove my 240SX ITA/PS2/ST5 race ka was at my competition license evaluation followed by a sprint race. It depends on experience and comfort level. Budget wise taking a stock vehicle and eventually building it to spec for racing is much more expensive than getting a prepared car and learning it in that condition.
There is nothing so special about a prepped spec miata or HC/ITA CRX that you could not take it right onto the track if you are beyond the novice level in track days. I mean if the car is sorted all you are dealing with is a car with the proper safety equipment, much improved suspension but not much more than stock power.
| dave bruener | 01-20-2005 05:46 PM |
It is always easier and cheaper to race a car that has been built and raced by someone else. I've seen at least a dozen guys build cars thinking they were going to do it for less than what someone was selling a similar used car for and they always spent more building it. Always, everytime.
If you buy a built car from someone who has run it successfully, then you have a good starting point for set ups as well.
With that said, I have a '92 Prelude for sale. It can go to ITE, ITS or E Production in SCCA and it is good Honda Challenge car and maybe even USTCC with little work. This is a former Real Time car--the guys who have won umteen World Challenge Championships. $4000 :-)
If you buy a built car from someone who has run it successfully, then you have a good starting point for set ups as well.
With that said, I have a '92 Prelude for sale. It can go to ITE, ITS or E Production in SCCA and it is good Honda Challenge car and maybe even USTCC with little work. This is a former Real Time car--the guys who have won umteen World Challenge Championships. $4000 :-)
| baileypicks24 | 01-21-2005 01:37 PM |
[QUOTE=dave bruener]It is always easier and cheaper to race a car that has been built and raced by someone else. [/QUOTE]
You're 100% right....in the long term.
I'm talking about the short term though. The initial investment of the actual vehicle is much cheaper for a completely stock car. Not to mention you can be competetive in autox in a stock class. Eventually building up to a all out track car. Yes, it will cost more money, but at a slower pace.
I guess that's what I'm thinking...anyways I'll update the thread in a few days when I buy the beast :)
You're 100% right....in the long term.
I'm talking about the short term though. The initial investment of the actual vehicle is much cheaper for a completely stock car. Not to mention you can be competetive in autox in a stock class. Eventually building up to a all out track car. Yes, it will cost more money, but at a slower pace.
I guess that's what I'm thinking...anyways I'll update the thread in a few days when I buy the beast :)
| elgorey | 01-21-2005 01:47 PM |
Miata is by far a superior vehicle on the racetrack.
While both are relatively cheap to run (and competitive in road racing classes), the miata will be a much more reliable vehicle and more fun to drive.
When you make the jump to wheel to wheel, the build costs for a Spec Miata are drastically lower than an ITA Crx, and the resale value much better as well.
ps- Scott Giles does not drive a CRX, he drives an old Civic hatchback in ITC (old as in 1.5L carb 4 speed)
While both are relatively cheap to run (and competitive in road racing classes), the miata will be a much more reliable vehicle and more fun to drive.
When you make the jump to wheel to wheel, the build costs for a Spec Miata are drastically lower than an ITA Crx, and the resale value much better as well.
ps- Scott Giles does not drive a CRX, he drives an old Civic hatchback in ITC (old as in 1.5L carb 4 speed)
| turboICE | 01-21-2005 04:16 PM |
The problem with SM is their persistent willingness to exercise "rubbing is racing" and "hard rubbing is hard racing" which puts a big dent in budgets.
| ratt_finkel | 01-21-2005 04:26 PM |
[QUOTE=baileypicks24]You know, after doing some research I'm beginning to lean towards starting out in a completely STOCK car in autocross, just to get to know the car. It's a totally different platform and one would be foolish to jump right onto the track without knowing the car.
I suppose I need to find out how competetive a stock Miata would run in it's class (E Stock if I'm not mistaken) vs. the older Civic (H Stock)...[/QUOTE]
The miata's do great in E-stock. H stock is dominated by the base mini cooper right now. But a Civic/CRX si will do decently well, if your driving skills are up to par. I vote Miata.
I suppose I need to find out how competetive a stock Miata would run in it's class (E Stock if I'm not mistaken) vs. the older Civic (H Stock)...[/QUOTE]
The miata's do great in E-stock. H stock is dominated by the base mini cooper right now. But a Civic/CRX si will do decently well, if your driving skills are up to par. I vote Miata.
| Calamity Jesus | 01-21-2005 05:50 PM |
I vote Miata... as long as you fit inside. While I'm often one of the rare supporters (around here) of the idea that FWD cars can be fast and handle, the enjoyment of driving a RWD car hard cannot be overstressed.
Oh, I've seen some very fast civics on an autocross course.. but I've also seen a turboed miata take FTD.
Oh, I've seen some very fast civics on an autocross course.. but I've also seen a turboed miata take FTD.
| jmolaver | 01-21-2005 10:49 PM |
I think it really depends on where you think you're going with the car... My personal preference would be for the miata (i want a turbo'd miata track car soooo bad), but if are planning on running wheel-to-wheel I think Spec Miata and ITA are both great groups.. My brother just built his SM and it was fun and not [i]too[/i] expensive, but it's a race car, things will break, and sheet metal may be crumpled...
One thing to consider is full-blown track cars rarely can be driven on the street (emissions, harness aren't legal in most places, etc) so that means getting a trailer and tow vehicle which is not a cheap endeavor... Even if you have a tow vehicle the trailer could cost as much as the CRX or miata.
[quote=turboICE]
The problem with SM is their persistent willingness to exercise "rubbing is racing" and "hard rubbing is hard racing" which puts a big dent in budgets.
[/quote]
wuss :lol: - jk I agree.. weird how much they allow considering how much PR they push for it being a bargain racing league...
One thing to consider is full-blown track cars rarely can be driven on the street (emissions, harness aren't legal in most places, etc) so that means getting a trailer and tow vehicle which is not a cheap endeavor... Even if you have a tow vehicle the trailer could cost as much as the CRX or miata.
[quote=turboICE]
The problem with SM is their persistent willingness to exercise "rubbing is racing" and "hard rubbing is hard racing" which puts a big dent in budgets.
[/quote]
wuss :lol: - jk I agree.. weird how much they allow considering how much PR they push for it being a bargain racing league...
| turboICE | 01-21-2005 11:01 PM |
Well it is a bargain for the racers that moonlight in body work! I like the races but couldn't afford the body work - i'll stick with my ITA 240sx - I can get a shell and cage it for less than $2.5k so if the body damage is too high just swap shells can't do that with a miata.
Comes down to the budget. Seeing what the front running SM's spend I could run my STi in T2.
(For one race weekend.)
Comes down to the budget. Seeing what the front running SM's spend I could run my STi in T2.
(For one race weekend.)
| n k | 01-22-2005 03:12 PM |
I think either choice is a good one- but if I could only pick one- my vote is Miata. I have tracked and maintained both an integra and miata, so I speak from experience. The miata was much more of a blast to drive, rewarding and cheaper to maintain. One post alluded to the mega bucks to ad HP to a miata- and while there is truth in that (turbo kits or JRSC)- Horespower is not what a Miata is about. You can spend very little, and still have an amazing car for the track or autox.
You'll meet great people in both camps, but I have to say the Miata community really impressed me in terms of resources, events, and willingness to help.
Good luck making your decision.
My 99 Miata is still for sale if you are interested. [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=553181[/url] thread from the summer (needs to be updated)
You'll meet great people in both camps, but I have to say the Miata community really impressed me in terms of resources, events, and willingness to help.
Good luck making your decision.
My 99 Miata is still for sale if you are interested. [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=553181[/url] thread from the summer (needs to be updated)
| attemptmischief | 06-28-2013 09:34 AM |
i have a crx 91 si and love it it handles great and acelerates and is unbelievable i will not sell this car for nothing its my prized possesion curently looking for a another one just for the frame just incase a mis hap happens and the crx's are harder to find than a miata thats for sure and parts are getting rarer thats why there a lil more costly but so much fun to drive and i still drive mine on the street with a stage 3 6 puck clutch my girl friend teases me cuz ocasionally i kiss the steering wheel jokingly and only thing beat me so far is a bmw m5 ,,personal exsprience on my end drive both before u make a choice matter of preference i thing but it handles turns like a champ
| Tim_ | 06-28-2013 09:52 AM |
Back from the crypt?
Did the other cars you were racing know you were racing them?
Did the other cars you were racing know you were racing them?
| Jack | 06-28-2013 10:21 AM |
If you think getting parts for a CRX is difficult or that they are rare, you are on crack.
[URL=http://s143.photobucket.com/user/Jackffr1846/media/20071102_LRP_INS_7737.jpg.html][IMG]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/Jackffr1846/20071102_LRP_INS_7737.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
redpepperracing.com for first gen CRX
g1teg is also worth being on since 1st gen integra stuff is the cheap way to upgrade. Rear disks, engines, trannys, etc. There are hasport and other swap mounts available. You just have to actually look around. Bigger torsion bars for the front are easily available. Good suspension (konis) are easily available.
2nd gen is run of the mill and every honda part ever made fits on them.
I ran the 87 Si for 5 years (it was an SCCA ITA car for 5 years before that) and recently had a 91 dx to teach my son how to drive a manual. I had a new 91 Si back in the day.
Rare? Not even.
[URL=http://s143.photobucket.com/user/Jackffr1846/media/20071102_LRP_INS_7737.jpg.html][IMG]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/Jackffr1846/20071102_LRP_INS_7737.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
redpepperracing.com for first gen CRX
g1teg is also worth being on since 1st gen integra stuff is the cheap way to upgrade. Rear disks, engines, trannys, etc. There are hasport and other swap mounts available. You just have to actually look around. Bigger torsion bars for the front are easily available. Good suspension (konis) are easily available.
2nd gen is run of the mill and every honda part ever made fits on them.
I ran the 87 Si for 5 years (it was an SCCA ITA car for 5 years before that) and recently had a 91 dx to teach my son how to drive a manual. I had a new 91 Si back in the day.
Rare? Not even.
| Tim_ | 06-28-2013 10:41 AM |
[SIZE="6"][b]this thread is from 2005 and the OP is banned[/b][/SIZE]
| tazswing | 06-28-2013 01:23 PM |
banned or not, old or not the idea is still one worth discussing. i feel the same way about tracking my STi some times.
| Draken | 06-28-2013 01:48 PM |
[quote=attemptmischief;40107449]i have a crx 91 si and love it it handles great and acelerates and is unbelievable i will not sell this car for nothing its my prized possesion curently looking for a another one just for the frame just incase a mis hap happens and the crx's are harder to find than a miata thats for sure and parts are getting rarer thats why there a lil more costly but so much fun to drive and i still drive mine on the street with a stage 3 6 puck clutch my girl friend teases me cuz ocasionally i kiss the steering wheel jokingly and only thing beat me so far is a bmw m5 ,,personal exsprience on my end drive both before u make a choice matter of preference i thing but it handles turns like a champ[/quote]
i really like how u post it is so great for addin to our noledge of theese car keep up the gud work god bless
i really like how u post it is so great for addin to our noledge of theese car keep up the gud work god bless
| Patrick L | 06-29-2013 02:51 PM |
GC 2.5RS can be had for cheap these days. Come play in SCCA ITS or STU and NASA PTD.
[IMG]http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r528/Patrick_Lipsinic/IMG_8346_zps68297e8d.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r528/Patrick_Lipsinic/IMG_8346_zps68297e8d.jpg[/IMG]
| 04trailsti | 06-29-2013 10:26 PM |
[quote="Tim_;40107899"]this thread is from 2005 and the OP is banned[/quote]
People complain when you use an old thread and people complain if you start a new thread....who cares?
People complain when you use an old thread and people complain if you start a new thread....who cares?
| turboICE | 07-01-2013 09:58 AM |
Courtesy of one of Spence's profile pics.
[IMG]https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/599598_10151510706977445_185814305_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/599598_10151510706977445_185814305_n.jpg[/IMG]
| Tim_ | 07-01-2013 10:08 AM |
Honda certainly has had more success in motorsports than Subaru, without question.
| turboICE | 07-01-2013 11:13 AM |
I would hope so being 10 times larger and more active in motorsports.
And extremely relevant if you own an Indy team.
But closer to the topic of this tread I think miatas enjoy more success as a brand than honda in dedicated track car / club racing.
And extremely relevant if you own an Indy team.
But closer to the topic of this tread I think miatas enjoy more success as a brand than honda in dedicated track car / club racing.
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