| suby_dude | 08-05-2003 07:19 PM |
track folks, running oil temp.
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for those of you that run track days... what's your average running temp?
and how high does your EGT get when running those temperatures?
I know everybody's setup, climate etc would change the above numbers... but i just wanted to see what kind of temps people run while pushing their cars hard.
Best Regards,
SD
[url]http://www.subydude.com[/url]
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and how high does your EGT get when running those temperatures?
I know everybody's setup, climate etc would change the above numbers... but i just wanted to see what kind of temps people run while pushing their cars hard.
Best Regards,
SD
[url]http://www.subydude.com[/url]
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| trhoppe | 08-05-2003 09:14 PM |
I didn't do oil temps, but during one lap, I was seeing 1600 EGTs after a few laps.
-Tom
-Tom
| Corey | 08-06-2003 07:59 AM |
My oil temps run between 200-225F. EGT's about 1450-1550. But I'm in an NA car so I don't know if that helps you...
Corey #89 STS
Corey #89 STS
| CTKAG | 08-06-2003 08:34 AM |
I'm also pushing 1600 degrees on EGT on long track runs. No idea on oil temp however.
-Keith-
-Keith-
| mturmel | 08-06-2003 09:02 AM |
HI,
I've been monitoring my oil temp for the last 2 track days. It seem to depends how fast I go or how much air I get into the scoop. On a very tight circuit, I've seen up to 105 C (221 F). Generally, It sits around 100 C (212 F). I always let it run sitting with the hood open after a few laps. Talking to a master tech here, he told me I should put the warning light around 110 C (230F).
I'm using Motul Competition 10w40, so that probably helps keeping things cool.
As far as EGT, I would love to know, but I'm waiting from my EGT gauge back from J-Spec. I have a track day on Aug 16th, if I have the gauge, I'll post the result.
Matt
I've been monitoring my oil temp for the last 2 track days. It seem to depends how fast I go or how much air I get into the scoop. On a very tight circuit, I've seen up to 105 C (221 F). Generally, It sits around 100 C (212 F). I always let it run sitting with the hood open after a few laps. Talking to a master tech here, he told me I should put the warning light around 110 C (230F).
I'm using Motul Competition 10w40, so that probably helps keeping things cool.
As far as EGT, I would love to know, but I'm waiting from my EGT gauge back from J-Spec. I have a track day on Aug 16th, if I have the gauge, I'll post the result.
Matt
| Kristopher | 08-07-2003 01:29 AM |
It is Ambient dependant, right? I have seen temps as high as 110-112c on my track excursions. I run 10w30 Mobil 1. I wouldn't consider this being a problem until it gets above 120c. Above that you will see a loss in performance of oil and engine, in fact it may be lower then that. 120c should be the limit.
The thing about thicker oils is alway up for debate. I like the fact that the 10w30 cools faster and warms quicker.
-Kris
The thing about thicker oils is alway up for debate. I like the fact that the 10w30 cools faster and warms quicker.
-Kris
| Patrick Olsen | 08-07-2003 04:46 AM |
Where are you guys actually measuring the oil temp? That's an important factor in interpreting oil temperatures.
With a good synthetic oil I don't see any problem with running as high as 260-280degF. I know plenty of guys in the open track community who do just that and don't have any issues.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
With a good synthetic oil I don't see any problem with running as high as 260-280degF. I know plenty of guys in the open track community who do just that and don't have any issues.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| sdecker | 08-07-2003 07:13 AM |
I run about 110C during hot Atlanta track days; this is being measured on the factory guage pack in my WRX.
(BTW -- am I like the only person in the world who actually BOUGHT that thing?) :lol:
Scott
(BTW -- am I like the only person in the world who actually BOUGHT that thing?) :lol:
Scott
| spidey02wrx | 08-07-2003 08:20 AM |
very rarely over 110C measured at an adapter for the oil filter.
| mturmel | 08-07-2003 08:22 AM |
My oil temp sensor is at the oil drain plug. Omori oil temp gauge.
I guess ambient temperature plays a role, we obviously have lower daily temp than LA... :p
Matt
I guess ambient temperature plays a role, we obviously have lower daily temp than LA... :p
Matt
| sdecker | 08-07-2003 08:23 AM |
I forgot to mention, that 110C in my post above is measured at the oil drain plug.
Good luck,
Scott
Good luck,
Scott
| lukerussell | 08-07-2003 09:32 AM |
sdecker - you're not alone, i bought it too.
i've seen oil temps as high as slightly over 110C. i've had EGT's over 1600F (my gauge limit) and was probably around 1625F. i was worried but people smarter than myself said if my utec wasn't sensing any knock, then there is no problem. i was getting absolutely no knock on a mixture of 93 and 100 octane gas. and the car was running extremely fast.
luke
i've seen oil temps as high as slightly over 110C. i've had EGT's over 1600F (my gauge limit) and was probably around 1625F. i was worried but people smarter than myself said if my utec wasn't sensing any knock, then there is no problem. i was getting absolutely no knock on a mixture of 93 and 100 octane gas. and the car was running extremely fast.
luke
| suby_dude | 08-07-2003 11:17 AM |
thx for the info folks.
my last track day i was around 110 - 115 i believe
i think i'm going to put some redline water wetter this weekend.
i'll let you guys know if it helps.
also.. anyone here using an oil cooler... that will be something i'm gonna have to end up adding aswell.
thx again!
Best Regards,
SD
[url]http://www.subydude.com[/url]
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my last track day i was around 110 - 115 i believe
i think i'm going to put some redline water wetter this weekend.
i'll let you guys know if it helps.
also.. anyone here using an oil cooler... that will be something i'm gonna have to end up adding aswell.
thx again!
Best Regards,
SD
[url]http://www.subydude.com[/url]
[COLOR=red][SIZE=1]JOIN MY WEEKLY NEWSLETTER by emailing [URL][email�protected][/URL] [/SIZE] [/COLOR]
| GarySheehan | 08-07-2003 11:37 AM |
At the last race at California Speedway, we saw oil temps peak in the race at 266F measured in the pan. This is running an oil cooler. We always run Redline 20W50. 20W50 was recommended by the tech guys at SOA.
Our EGT's used to be up in the 1650F range. Cobb's tuning has us down around 850C, which is 1560F.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Our EGT's used to be up in the 1650F range. Cobb's tuning has us down around 850C, which is 1560F.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Kristopher | 08-07-2003 11:41 AM |
Water Wetter, IIRC, is for cars not running some kind of coolant, i.e. just water. Correct me if I am wrong... most racing organizaions do not allow the use of a poly-glycol coolant because it becomes slicker then snot on the track if you are leaking it. Hence the need for a product like 'Water Wetter', where only water is run. I wouldnt think it is effective in a street based mix of coolant and water.
And my oil temp guage sending unit is at the galley plug underneath the intercooler. My EGT's stay at a steady 800c(1472f)
Suby_dude: before going all out on a cooler and more and different additives try using a lighter oil.
-Kris
And my oil temp guage sending unit is at the galley plug underneath the intercooler. My EGT's stay at a steady 800c(1472f)
Suby_dude: before going all out on a cooler and more and different additives try using a lighter oil.
-Kris
| CTKAG | 08-07-2003 01:01 PM |
Yes, Water Wetter is designed to be most effective with just water, it's effectiveness is diminished greatly when used with anti-freeze. I don't have a bottle handy, but I remember reading what the temperature decreases with various mixes were - I thought it might have been on the label. Kristopher is exactly right - many sanctioning bodies forbid the use of conventional anti-freeze.
-Keith-
-Keith-
| 4porsh | 08-07-2003 03:47 PM |
I reach 257F 125C on track days.
I run Mobil 1 15/50, evans cooling NPG+, C&R radiator, 15 row Mocal oil cooler and WRC type hood vent. COBB tuned RT spec kit w/sr30.
I would like to know how hot and for how long should one run at these temps? I am not trying to win races at all cost, just like to run hard for 30mins. at a time.
---PATRICK OLSEN---
---GARY SHEEHAN---
Thanks,
---4porsh---
[email][email�protected][/email]
I run Mobil 1 15/50, evans cooling NPG+, C&R radiator, 15 row Mocal oil cooler and WRC type hood vent. COBB tuned RT spec kit w/sr30.
I would like to know how hot and for how long should one run at these temps? I am not trying to win races at all cost, just like to run hard for 30mins. at a time.
---PATRICK OLSEN---
---GARY SHEEHAN---
Thanks,
---4porsh---
[email][email�protected][/email]
| suby_dude | 08-07-2003 03:55 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kristopher [/i]
[B]
Suby_dude: before going all out on a cooler and more and different additives try using a lighter oil.
-Kris [/B][/QUOTE]
i have a 2.4 stroker, and it definately runs hotter.
we'll see how she does this weekend... i am planning to replace the mobil oil i have w/ the motul oil also replacing the gear oil w/ motul...
the builder (of the motor) said that if i peg here at 1650 F to 1700 consistently (i think that's what he said) i'll burn up my turbo
so i'll be running the motul oil and i'll probably hold off on the water wetter....thx...
anyone here running any kind of oil cooling system?
[B]
Suby_dude: before going all out on a cooler and more and different additives try using a lighter oil.
-Kris [/B][/QUOTE]
i have a 2.4 stroker, and it definately runs hotter.
we'll see how she does this weekend... i am planning to replace the mobil oil i have w/ the motul oil also replacing the gear oil w/ motul...
the builder (of the motor) said that if i peg here at 1650 F to 1700 consistently (i think that's what he said) i'll burn up my turbo
so i'll be running the motul oil and i'll probably hold off on the water wetter....thx...
anyone here running any kind of oil cooling system?
| Kristopher | 08-07-2003 05:17 PM |
Well considering the motor displacement increase, maybe an oilcooler would be beneficial. Plus I am assuming that you have a larger turbo too?
I have not run a really hot days here, you know, above 90f. I have a nicely tuned, albeit stock, motor. I dynoed at 223/212 on a mustang dyno with a stock turbo. I have since been to the road course with what most would consider to be really high boost and had no problems all day. No high EGT's no high oil temps, very solid. The car runs like a champ.
My point... check that everything is in order and that the excessive temps are not because of something else. I am under the impression that anything above 250f on the oil temps you start to lose horsepower. So maybe an oil cooler is the answer.
Just my $.02
-Kris
I have not run a really hot days here, you know, above 90f. I have a nicely tuned, albeit stock, motor. I dynoed at 223/212 on a mustang dyno with a stock turbo. I have since been to the road course with what most would consider to be really high boost and had no problems all day. No high EGT's no high oil temps, very solid. The car runs like a champ.
My point... check that everything is in order and that the excessive temps are not because of something else. I am under the impression that anything above 250f on the oil temps you start to lose horsepower. So maybe an oil cooler is the answer.
Just my $.02
-Kris
| Patrick Olsen | 08-08-2003 04:35 AM |
My "experience" is strictly based on what others have seen. My other car is a Mustang, and I'm pretty active on a couple Mustang forums/mailing lists that deal with open tracking. It seems that most oil cooler vendor types will tell you that the optimum temperature is in the 220-240 range (too hot for water to be entrained in the oil, but not hot enough to start worrying about the oil). However, in practical application, even guys with good oil cooler setups on 5.0L, 4.6L, 5.4L, etc Mustangs (and Camaros and Vettes and.... ) routinely see temps in the 260-280 range on track and say their engines are none the worse for it.
My Mustang will be hitting the track for the first time in 9 days. It's got a naturally-aspirated 357W that should be making around 450hp, spinning big 3" main bearings at up to 6500rpm. It's gonna get hot. I have a good Mocal oil cooler, but I my friend who's building the car for me is sure it won't be enough. Only one way to find out. :) My personal threshold of pain will probably be around 260deg, at which point I'll back out of it and decide that he's right, I need a bigger cooler.
Pat
My Mustang will be hitting the track for the first time in 9 days. It's got a naturally-aspirated 357W that should be making around 450hp, spinning big 3" main bearings at up to 6500rpm. It's gonna get hot. I have a good Mocal oil cooler, but I my friend who's building the car for me is sure it won't be enough. Only one way to find out. :) My personal threshold of pain will probably be around 260deg, at which point I'll back out of it and decide that he's right, I need a bigger cooler.
Pat
| ellisnc | 08-08-2003 06:10 AM |
the heavier weight engine oils cause higher oil temps if I remember correctly... obviously this is going to vary hugely with what your water temps are and if you're running a big radiator or not.
What might help some of you with high oil temperature also is removing your A/C which would put the radiator in direct contact with inlet air.
What might help some of you with high oil temperature also is removing your A/C which would put the radiator in direct contact with inlet air.
| GarySheehan | 08-08-2003 02:15 PM |
I don't think water temp is going to help much. At Cali Speedway we saw water temps of 95C (203F), with oil temps up at 125C (256F).
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Patrick Olsen | 08-08-2003 04:34 PM |
I disagree, Gary. There obviously isn't a direct, proportional relationship between oil and coolant temps, but they are related. The heat has to go [i]somewhere[/i], and there's basically just two options - the cooling system, or the oil system. If your cooling system doesn't have the ability to remove lots of heat (which would be indicated by the coolant temp being too high), then the oil is going to be hotter as the excess heat goes into the oil instead.
In your case, your cooling system is doing an excellent job - 203deg during race action is awesome. I guarantee that your oil temperature would go up noticeably if you installed a smaller radiator or obstructed flow to your existing radiator.
Pat
In your case, your cooling system is doing an excellent job - 203deg during race action is awesome. I guarantee that your oil temperature would go up noticeably if you installed a smaller radiator or obstructed flow to your existing radiator.
Pat
| GarySheehan | 08-08-2003 05:42 PM |
Pat,
I agree. I guess I was assuming that water temps were fine and that the suggestion was to try and lower them even more.
We've plenumed the rad so that the air is forced to go through instead of around it. Add the new C-West front facia that we received from SPI Motorsports and there is a ton of air being forced through the rad. That 203F was on a 98F degree day!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
I agree. I guess I was assuming that water temps were fine and that the suggestion was to try and lower them even more.
We've plenumed the rad so that the air is forced to go through instead of around it. Add the new C-West front facia that we received from SPI Motorsports and there is a ton of air being forced through the rad. That 203F was on a 98F degree day!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| WillysPU | 08-09-2003 02:54 PM |
My temp sensor is under the intercooler as well. Yesterday at Thunderhill the ambient temp was between 85 - 90, I ran hard all day and saw oil temps of 240/118 degrees. I run a vishnu stage 1 (stock turbo) and dyno juice. I am also looking into an oil cooler and will make the change to syntehtic oil. Redline was suggested as a good synthetic to go with.
Where would be a good place for the oil cooler?
__________________
Jim
What would Scooby do?
Where would be a good place for the oil cooler?
__________________
Jim
What would Scooby do?
| suby_dude | 08-11-2003 10:55 AM |
So I ran at RENO FArnley track... great short track btw... i put a warning at 115 degrees for oil temp.... the hottest i ran was approx 118 degrees and peaked at 16.1 on my EGT.
The car was running great... it got really warm there but I think an oil cooler will realy help.
I'll be putting together my own kit since the STI one is hella $$$$
fun weekened...
Best Regards,
SD
[url]http://www.subydude.com[/url]
[COLOR=red][SIZE=1]JOIN MY WEEKLY NEWSLETTER by emailing [URL][email�protected][/URL] [/SIZE] [/COLOR]
>>>Gary
nice seeing you out at RENO... sorry about your ride... I didn't stick around on sunday because...
- wife wanted to go home.
- i had a small fuel leak.
The car was running great... it got really warm there but I think an oil cooler will realy help.
I'll be putting together my own kit since the STI one is hella $$$$
fun weekened...
Best Regards,
SD
[url]http://www.subydude.com[/url]
[COLOR=red][SIZE=1]JOIN MY WEEKLY NEWSLETTER by emailing [URL][email�protected][/URL] [/SIZE] [/COLOR]
>>>Gary
nice seeing you out at RENO... sorry about your ride... I didn't stick around on sunday because...
- wife wanted to go home.
- i had a small fuel leak.
| WillysPU | 08-12-2003 02:32 AM |
S/D, let me know what type and size of core you decide to go with. I have looked at the pricey blitz and gredy, but I have also looked at the Earls and Hayden cheapos. Not sure if a smaller model like a 4" x 8" like the STi would be enough or go larger like a 4" high x 14" long.
Decisions decisions . . .
Decisions decisions . . .
| GDB | 08-12-2003 09:51 AM |
Car: MY01 JDM STi Type RA
Track: Sepang International Circuit
Ambient temp: about 34C
Max oil temp: about 105C; tapped at oil drain plug
Max EGT: about 700C; read from downpipe
Water injected, boosting 1.35+bar. On average I'd see 95+C; the 105C was at the end of a continuous 10+ lap madness.
One catch: I had the Grex oil cooler kit, with a nozzle spraying water on the heat exchanger core. Without it, my fellow mates have seen upwards of 130C.
Best place for oil cooler IMHO is inside the left fender. I have pics if only I can post attachments.
Track: Sepang International Circuit
Ambient temp: about 34C
Max oil temp: about 105C; tapped at oil drain plug
Max EGT: about 700C; read from downpipe
Water injected, boosting 1.35+bar. On average I'd see 95+C; the 105C was at the end of a continuous 10+ lap madness.
One catch: I had the Grex oil cooler kit, with a nozzle spraying water on the heat exchanger core. Without it, my fellow mates have seen upwards of 130C.
Best place for oil cooler IMHO is inside the left fender. I have pics if only I can post attachments.
| WillysPU | 08-12-2003 12:37 PM |
Inside the fender is the way Porsche has done it for years. That sounds interesting.
Questions:
What are the dimensions of your oil cooler?
Did you use the sandwich mount and if so does your oil filter sit very low or did you relocate the oil filter?
Is the oil cooler in the front or backside of the fender?
Did you keep the plastic fender wall and cut some air ducts?
Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to take care of the oil cooling issue before I go to the track again.
Thanks!
Jim
Questions:
What are the dimensions of your oil cooler?
Did you use the sandwich mount and if so does your oil filter sit very low or did you relocate the oil filter?
Is the oil cooler in the front or backside of the fender?
Did you keep the plastic fender wall and cut some air ducts?
Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to take care of the oil cooling issue before I go to the track again.
Thanks!
Jim
| GDB | 08-13-2003 07:49 AM |
[url]http://www.trust-power.com/03grex/oilcooler_core.html[/url]
Oil cooler dimensions are there. GDB kit is the 13 row type. Yes, it is a little less in terms of row count, BUT it is the largest bolt-on kit I know of (bigger than HKS), and the core is bigger than Mocal's 19-row core.
Yes, I used a sandwich mount, which came with the kit. BUT it is the only sandwich mount; my friends use two sandwiches because they tap the oil pressure and temp off the 1st sandwich. I tap mine differently, so the oil filter can still clear the sump guard (which comes standard in STi).
Oil cooler is INSIDE the fender, which is in front of the fender.
My mechanic did cut up slits in the plastic fender wall, ala Evo fender wall.
Oh I forgot to mention, he also mounted a custom FAN sucking air out of the core. The fan is connected with the radiator fans.
I spent $$$ on this but no regrets. Buy the Grex kit if you can; it comes with EVERYTHING you need to put inside the fender, including aluminum air guide to (what else) guide air to the core. Pity I sold the car already :(
Emailed you whatever pics I have.
You CAN still retain the foglights BTW, but who would do that on a track car???!!!
Oil cooler dimensions are there. GDB kit is the 13 row type. Yes, it is a little less in terms of row count, BUT it is the largest bolt-on kit I know of (bigger than HKS), and the core is bigger than Mocal's 19-row core.
Yes, I used a sandwich mount, which came with the kit. BUT it is the only sandwich mount; my friends use two sandwiches because they tap the oil pressure and temp off the 1st sandwich. I tap mine differently, so the oil filter can still clear the sump guard (which comes standard in STi).
Oil cooler is INSIDE the fender, which is in front of the fender.
My mechanic did cut up slits in the plastic fender wall, ala Evo fender wall.
Oh I forgot to mention, he also mounted a custom FAN sucking air out of the core. The fan is connected with the radiator fans.
I spent $$$ on this but no regrets. Buy the Grex kit if you can; it comes with EVERYTHING you need to put inside the fender, including aluminum air guide to (what else) guide air to the core. Pity I sold the car already :(
Emailed you whatever pics I have.
You CAN still retain the foglights BTW, but who would do that on a track car???!!!
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