| BIGSKYWRX | 10-18-2006 09:17 AM |
Truechoice or ProPartsUSA for custom Koni work?
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I'm contemplating having a set of 8611's fitted to oe struts, Koni says they don't do any more (too much work evidently).
I was going to have ProParts do it, but someone cautioned me about several folks having problems :(
Anyone have experience w/ Truechoice? ProParts "problems" overstated? Any other outfits?
TIA
I was going to have ProParts do it, but someone cautioned me about several folks having problems :(
Anyone have experience w/ Truechoice? ProParts "problems" overstated? Any other outfits?
TIA
| Storm | 10-18-2006 10:45 AM |
I would use NEITHER. Send them directly to Lee Grimes at Koni NA.
Both places have "issues".....
Jay Storm
Both places have "issues".....
Jay Storm
| KC | 10-18-2006 10:52 AM |
[QUOTE=Storm;15657013]I would use NEITHER. Send them directly to Lee Grimes at Koni NA.
Both places have "issues".....
Jay Storm[/QUOTE]
2nded.
Both places have "issues".....
Jay Storm[/QUOTE]
2nded.
| zzyzx | 10-18-2006 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE=KC;15657121]2nded.[/QUOTE]
3rded
Did Koni actually tell you they won't do these anymore? Hmm...
3rded
Did Koni actually tell you they won't do these anymore? Hmm...
| jcroy66 | 10-18-2006 11:42 AM |
4thed. Lee is awesome.
But yeah, I too had heard that Koni had stopped doing them. Sounds like the set we bought (Mike King's set) was one of the last they did (September 2004), because it just took too long and margins were too low (I actually seem to recall hearing that Koni NA might have lost money on them even?)
But yeah, I too had heard that Koni had stopped doing them. Sounds like the set we bought (Mike King's set) was one of the last they did (September 2004), because it just took too long and margins were too low (I actually seem to recall hearing that Koni NA might have lost money on them even?)
| solo-x | 10-18-2006 12:12 PM |
the set mike king had done where what is known as a "wet" setup. totally different from having 8611's put into OE housings. koni is no longer doing wet setups, but you can purchase the inserts and have any fabricator install them into oe housings. proparts, truechoice, or any other good fabricator can do them. now, if you were going to have some actual internal work done with the shock, i'd look to koni directly, or at least have them sent to koni after the work is done and have them dyno'd.
edit: there is a caveat here. the 8611 is a double adjustable insert. the bump adjuster is in the bottom of the housing. THAT is why you have to do a wet setup to get a DA damper. if you're thinking of blowing that kind of loot on dampers, you might want to look into the 2817 series semi-finished strut. i beleive there is also a twin tube strut version of the 82 series DA damper and possibly of the 30 series DA dampers as well. the short answer? call lee at koni and tell him what you want to do and spend. he can then explain your options.
ps. koni still lists wet kits on the website as a service. take that for what you paid for it.
edit: there is a caveat here. the 8611 is a double adjustable insert. the bump adjuster is in the bottom of the housing. THAT is why you have to do a wet setup to get a DA damper. if you're thinking of blowing that kind of loot on dampers, you might want to look into the 2817 series semi-finished strut. i beleive there is also a twin tube strut version of the 82 series DA damper and possibly of the 30 series DA dampers as well. the short answer? call lee at koni and tell him what you want to do and spend. he can then explain your options.
ps. koni still lists wet kits on the website as a service. take that for what you paid for it.
| solo-x | 10-18-2006 12:14 PM |
actually, i take back what i said about the 8611 not working because of the bump adjuster. the SE-R guys are using them, as are the BMW guys. zzyzx also builds housings for these inserts. perhaps they don't work with OEM housings? hard to beat steve's price for the zzyzx's and what you get though.
| BIGSKYWRX | 10-18-2006 03:12 PM |
Yeah Lee said they weren't doing it anymore- don't know if this applies to the WRX only or not, basically a PITA it sounded like.
It takes a little "work" to get the DA insert in as it can't be fastened to the bottom of the strut ala the SA 8610 due to the other adjuster on the bottom.
I think what they are doing is cutting off the top of the strut (much like the SA insert) but then threading the upper strut body and using a gland nut to secure the insert.
Are the "issues" w/ Truechoice and ProParts when they delve into the insert itself (revalving or the like) or anything they do? I guess I'd be a little concerned w/ a shop that is an authorized repair center for Koni, but having issues w/ rebuilding struts/shocks :(
I think someone said Steve's pieces were going to take a pretty good jump up in price supposedly???
It takes a little "work" to get the DA insert in as it can't be fastened to the bottom of the strut ala the SA 8610 due to the other adjuster on the bottom.
I think what they are doing is cutting off the top of the strut (much like the SA insert) but then threading the upper strut body and using a gland nut to secure the insert.
Are the "issues" w/ Truechoice and ProParts when they delve into the insert itself (revalving or the like) or anything they do? I guess I'd be a little concerned w/ a shop that is an authorized repair center for Koni, but having issues w/ rebuilding struts/shocks :(
I think someone said Steve's pieces were going to take a pretty good jump up in price supposedly???
| Storm | 10-18-2006 03:25 PM |
Issues from ProParts and Truechoice that I know of are Premature seal failures, wrong valving installed, long-long leadtimes and general piss-poor customer service.
I would think that if you aren't having them do any internal work...you could go with them for OTS parts only. I would still contact Lee and see who he recommends if they can't do it in house anymore.
Jay Storm
I would think that if you aren't having them do any internal work...you could go with them for OTS parts only. I would still contact Lee and see who he recommends if they can't do it in house anymore.
Jay Storm
| PhilC | 10-18-2006 08:03 PM |
I've never personally dealt with them but have now heard from multiple people that TrueChoice often sells work they don't actually do. Custom re-valves that weren't for instance, complete with fake dyno sheets in some cases supposedly. Since we live in Ohio when I next need a rebuild I'd like to be able to drive our struts down to TrueChoice and have them worked on with a shorter lead time than sending them down to Koni, but I won't.
| BIGSKYWRX | 10-18-2006 11:43 PM |
I call Lee again sounds like :)
| Patrick Olsen | 10-19-2006 12:10 AM |
[QUOTE=BIGSKYWRX;15655860]Anyone have experience w/ Truechoice?
TIA[/QUOTE]
Tia, ;)
I had my Koni inserts revalved/rebuilt by Truechoice this spring. No issues whatsoever so far. I'd have to go check my records, but I wouldn't be surprised if I've put 10k miles on them in the past 5 or 6 months, including a number of auto-x events. I don't know if they gave me faked shock dyno graphs :rolleyes: , but I do know they certainly felt much firmer than they did even when brand new (firmer valving to support higher spring rates was the intent).
[QUOTE=Storm;15661394]Issues from ProParts and Truechoice that I know of are Premature seal failures, wrong valving installed, long-long leadtimes and general piss-poor customer service.[/QUOTE]
Again, I had no issues with Truechoice. They were very helpful on the phone, discussing what my options were. Lead time was 4 times [b]faster[/b] than Koni NA. [i]Every[/i] thread I've read about Koni rebuilds (here, Mustang forum, non-marque specific racing forum) talks about Koni NA being swamped and taking 8-12 weeks. That's what Koni told me when I called them this spring, and as I recall Lee even suggested I call Truechoice to see what their workload looked like. Sure enough, 2-1/2 weeks.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
TIA[/QUOTE]
Tia, ;)
I had my Koni inserts revalved/rebuilt by Truechoice this spring. No issues whatsoever so far. I'd have to go check my records, but I wouldn't be surprised if I've put 10k miles on them in the past 5 or 6 months, including a number of auto-x events. I don't know if they gave me faked shock dyno graphs :rolleyes: , but I do know they certainly felt much firmer than they did even when brand new (firmer valving to support higher spring rates was the intent).
[QUOTE=Storm;15661394]Issues from ProParts and Truechoice that I know of are Premature seal failures, wrong valving installed, long-long leadtimes and general piss-poor customer service.[/QUOTE]
Again, I had no issues with Truechoice. They were very helpful on the phone, discussing what my options were. Lead time was 4 times [b]faster[/b] than Koni NA. [i]Every[/i] thread I've read about Koni rebuilds (here, Mustang forum, non-marque specific racing forum) talks about Koni NA being swamped and taking 8-12 weeks. That's what Koni told me when I called them this spring, and as I recall Lee even suggested I call Truechoice to see what their workload looked like. Sure enough, 2-1/2 weeks.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| BIGSKYWRX | 10-19-2006 12:19 AM |
that makes me feel a little better
Thanks
TIA- I mean Mike :)
Thanks
TIA- I mean Mike :)
| Carisma | 10-19-2006 12:19 AM |
I know this probably doesn't apply but here goes...
I have an RS and I want to put in the inserts. I can't find anyone around here that will do it since I don't have the tools to. I wouldn't mind sending them out and get the valving done at the same time because I would like to run fairly firmer springs after my current ones.
I am just wondering what valving should I go for. This is going to be a DD/autoX car.
I have an RS and I want to put in the inserts. I can't find anyone around here that will do it since I don't have the tools to. I wouldn't mind sending them out and get the valving done at the same time because I would like to run fairly firmer springs after my current ones.
I am just wondering what valving should I go for. This is going to be a DD/autoX car.
| Storm | 10-19-2006 03:15 AM |
I guess it is possible that TrueChoice has gotten their act together....but I wouldn't know for sure as I choose not to use them.
As for the RS inserts, they aren't super hard to assemble. I'm sure you can find an enthusiast to do them up for you (I'd do it) if you don't have the means to do it.
On our RS, we found that OTS valving worked pretty well for up to around 400lb springs. Even at that, the fronts were ~okay~ but the rears needed more damping. Once we went on to bigger springs, we had them all revalved and noticed a great improvement. YMMV
Jay Storm
As for the RS inserts, they aren't super hard to assemble. I'm sure you can find an enthusiast to do them up for you (I'd do it) if you don't have the means to do it.
On our RS, we found that OTS valving worked pretty well for up to around 400lb springs. Even at that, the fronts were ~okay~ but the rears needed more damping. Once we went on to bigger springs, we had them all revalved and noticed a great improvement. YMMV
Jay Storm
| Carisma | 10-19-2006 03:46 AM |
Yeah right now I am going to run v6 sti springs.
I want to get some custom springs but I don't need the adjustability of GC sleeves.
I have everything for the inserts but I don't have the inserts yet because i didn't want to get them and not be able to get them in the struts.
I might just get a Bilstein set from GT.
I want to get some custom springs but I don't need the adjustability of GC sleeves.
I have everything for the inserts but I don't have the inserts yet because i didn't want to get them and not be able to get them in the struts.
I might just get a Bilstein set from GT.
| jcroy66 | 10-19-2006 12:28 PM |
Yeah, when I had to have the rebound adjuster unstuck on our set, Lee had recommended using TrueChoice, because Koni's lead-time was about 2 months. Personally, my thought is that since it's October, the lead-time doesn't matter much (since you're in Montana and not Arizona). If it were me, I'd stick with Koni NA's craftsmanship, [B]if[/B] they're willing to do whatever it is that you want done. :)
FWIW, in our case, even with the longer lead-time (and it was the middle of the season), I *still* sent ours to Koni. Yes, it took a little while, but less time than Lee had estimated. I was VERY happy with Koni NA.
As for TrueChoice, I've never dealt with them. I have just heard too many first-hand accounts of people who *have* had horrible service to give them a shot at my business. But I'm very glad to hear from people like Pat who've had good luck too.
FWIW, in our case, even with the longer lead-time (and it was the middle of the season), I *still* sent ours to Koni. Yes, it took a little while, but less time than Lee had estimated. I was VERY happy with Koni NA.
As for TrueChoice, I've never dealt with them. I have just heard too many first-hand accounts of people who *have* had horrible service to give them a shot at my business. But I'm very glad to hear from people like Pat who've had good luck too.
| PossumK | 10-19-2006 01:34 PM |
In your case, what was the cause of the rebound adjuster sticking? This happened to a friend who had a wet kit built by ProParts.
| jcroy66 | 10-19-2006 01:57 PM |
We aren't sure, as we bought them that way (3rd owner). We think a previous owner may have taken an impact wrench to the tophats. Regardless, we tried (without success) to get it unstuck on our own and then sent it to Koni who fixed it right up.
| angryfist | 10-19-2006 02:44 PM |
i dont know about proparts' rebuild services, but there customer service for ordering parts is great. they go out of their way for me every time i call them. A+ from me.
| ratt_finkel | 10-20-2006 10:44 AM |
I know that Gerry Terranova runs ProParts equipped DA's on his civic. I'm assuming they are half-way decent or he wouldn't be using them.
| j-rho | 10-20-2006 02:29 PM |
ProParts did the struts/shocks on my 240, the shocks on Motonishi's STS car, and they did the struts on Barco's car too. Their stuff is on a lot of winning cars. I've always been very happy with the product and service I've received from them.
I know people have reported troubles from time to time, but I question how often this is due to the individual not understanding the difference in nature between a custom one-off race part and a pedestrian OTS mass-produced part.
I know people have reported troubles from time to time, but I question how often this is due to the individual not understanding the difference in nature between a custom one-off race part and a pedestrian OTS mass-produced part.
| buzz313th | 10-20-2006 02:30 PM |
I have been dealing with Pro-Parts for 3 years now. They have rebuilt my wetbuilds and my 28's and I can say that in the end I am very happy with the results. Gary Thomason is also a long time Pro-Parts customer, he seems to keep going back for his damper builds.
To be honest, who wouldn't want custom dampers built by a profesional race team in a very succesful series. (Tri-Point)
If any of you are interested, I can give you a no BS opinion of the work and services they do.
Please email me if you could use more info.
JB
To be honest, who wouldn't want custom dampers built by a profesional race team in a very succesful series. (Tri-Point)
If any of you are interested, I can give you a no BS opinion of the work and services they do.
Please email me if you could use more info.
JB
| leecea | 10-20-2006 03:43 PM |
I am curious about the revalving. Are people just having the rebound range increased for stiffer springs or do you get stiffer compression too? Are any stock people benefiting from stiffer valving or either/both kinds?
| Patrick Olsen | 10-20-2006 07:02 PM |
[QUOTE=j-rho;15686976]I know people have reported troubles from time to time, but I question how often this is due to the individual not understanding the difference in nature between a custom one-off race part and a pedestrian OTS mass-produced part.[/QUOTE]
I also wonder how much of the bad press is just the power of the internet. Someone relates a bad experience here or on sccaforums or si.com or whatever, and before you know it that story has been repeated on every auto-x/open track forum in the world. What started as 1 story has now become a bazillion cases of poor customer service or whatever. And people are [i]much[/i] more likely to post about problems than they are to post about things going as expected, so the feedback on a shop/vendor all to often looks more negative than it really should be.
Pat
I also wonder how much of the bad press is just the power of the internet. Someone relates a bad experience here or on sccaforums or si.com or whatever, and before you know it that story has been repeated on every auto-x/open track forum in the world. What started as 1 story has now become a bazillion cases of poor customer service or whatever. And people are [i]much[/i] more likely to post about problems than they are to post about things going as expected, so the feedback on a shop/vendor all to often looks more negative than it really should be.
Pat
| BIGSKYWRX | 03-12-2007 08:45 PM |
How about this outfit:
[url]http://performanceshock.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=11[/url]
[url]http://performanceshock.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=11[/url]
| makofoto | 06-10-2008 02:19 AM |
Better customer relations with ProParts now that employees Jeff Wong and Nicole N. are AX'ing with us:
[IMG]http://images33.fotki.com/v1135/photos/4/43793/6278244/NN-vi.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images33.fotki.com/v1135/photos/4/43793/6278244/NN-vi.jpg[/IMG]
| maxQ | 06-10-2008 02:08 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto;22587198]Better customer relations with ProParts now that employees Jeff Wong and Nicole N. are AX'ing with us:
[IMG]http://images33.fotki.com/v1135/photos/4/43793/6278244/NN-vi.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Yum... i've always wondered how well a DSP MS protege would do. Can't turn the boost up, but it's got a ton more torque than a ITR/GS-R.
I want.
[IMG]http://images33.fotki.com/v1135/photos/4/43793/6278244/NN-vi.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Yum... i've always wondered how well a DSP MS protege would do. Can't turn the boost up, but it's got a ton more torque than a ITR/GS-R.
I want.
| makofoto | 06-10-2008 02:38 PM |
Especially when dad owns ProParts/TriPoint Racing (Speed World Challenge Mazda team), and is one of the winningest AX'ers ever! ;)
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