| makofoto | 07-06-2004 08:35 PM |
What do you typically adjust at a AutoX ?
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Besides air pressure ... what do you typically adjust at a AutoX ? Sway bar(s) ... Dampening ... camber ... toe ? Or do you find that once you are dialed in ... most AX course are similar enough so you can leave your settings alone ...
| ChrisDP | 07-06-2004 09:14 PM |
Damping, sometimes rear toe. Maybe I'd change rear swaybar if the car REALLY sucked after the first run.
Edit- it would probably be worth mentioning that I fiddle with the rear swaybar and such at test days... most comp. days I've just set the car and basically left it, no shock changes, maybe a minor pressure adjustment if the course turns out to be a lot different than I thought it would be on walkthroughs. My shock/spring combo doesn't leave me much room for adjusting the handling of the car at this point as they need to be dialed pretty high just to damp the springs. Revalve is in the near future. Once the car is dialed, it seems to need a lot less course-dependent tuning than it did in DS trim. Maybe because it actually rotates naturally now... :confused:
Edit- it would probably be worth mentioning that I fiddle with the rear swaybar and such at test days... most comp. days I've just set the car and basically left it, no shock changes, maybe a minor pressure adjustment if the course turns out to be a lot different than I thought it would be on walkthroughs. My shock/spring combo doesn't leave me much room for adjusting the handling of the car at this point as they need to be dialed pretty high just to damp the springs. Revalve is in the near future. Once the car is dialed, it seems to need a lot less course-dependent tuning than it did in DS trim. Maybe because it actually rotates naturally now... :confused:
| KC | 07-06-2004 09:14 PM |
Set the car before you run based on what the course walk looked like.
Try to avoid adjusting the car unless you're absoutely sure that the adjustments you make will help solve what you're experiencing on the course.
However, if you're in the 'testing phase' just seeing what settings are good, then adjust ONLY one thing at a time (sway bar, OR Damping OR Rebound OR toe) and run that for a couple runs... not just one.. or even two. Some events having only three runs, kinda puts a damper in all that. :)
But more than anything... keep a log. Write down what you did, and the results... more oversteer in sweepers? Push in corner entry? Write it down along with the settings you did.
There's no 'perfect setup' for every element on any given course... what you just need to do is just find one that will allow you to lose the less amount of time on most of the course.
Try to avoid adjusting the car unless you're absoutely sure that the adjustments you make will help solve what you're experiencing on the course.
However, if you're in the 'testing phase' just seeing what settings are good, then adjust ONLY one thing at a time (sway bar, OR Damping OR Rebound OR toe) and run that for a couple runs... not just one.. or even two. Some events having only three runs, kinda puts a damper in all that. :)
But more than anything... keep a log. Write down what you did, and the results... more oversteer in sweepers? Push in corner entry? Write it down along with the settings you did.
There's no 'perfect setup' for every element on any given course... what you just need to do is just find one that will allow you to lose the less amount of time on most of the course.
| trhoppe | 07-06-2004 10:29 PM |
Analyze after the run. Was it me making mistakes or the car allowing me not to drive right. Adjust either nut behind the wheel or the shocks. I actually never mess with the air pressure as the shocks do all the fine tuning I ever need.
-Tom
-Tom
| Storm | 07-07-2004 07:33 AM |
Once we found out what tire pressures work best for us, we set cold and confirm.....sometimes adjusting back to our set pressures if we know we overcooked the tires on a bad run. Typically we'll only adjust damping....but it has to be something drastic to make the adjustment. Course elements also dictate where we'll start off damping wise. Normally, we'll only adjust about 1/2 turn either way from our base settings. Unless it rains...then we have "rain settings".
Like KC, I like to keep notes on conditions, settings and results with notes of interest for future reference. It helps to have a co-driver who can communicate what the car is doing so that changes can be made that help get the most out of the car in the limited runs allowed.
Jay Storm
Like KC, I like to keep notes on conditions, settings and results with notes of interest for future reference. It helps to have a co-driver who can communicate what the car is doing so that changes can be made that help get the most out of the car in the limited runs allowed.
Jay Storm
| DrBiggly | 07-07-2004 11:28 AM |
On my stock car I'd monkey with the air pressures, but really all I would do is let about 2lbs of air out of the front after they heated up for each run. Kept the level of grip about the same or made it a touch better. I always had it too high to start with and thus would push a little. This helped show me areas where I was over-driving the car.
I used that as a learning tool, not necessarily something that's a great idea but it worked for me at local events. :)
I used that as a learning tool, not necessarily something that's a great idea but it worked for me at local events. :)
| thechickencow | 07-07-2004 12:53 PM |
I adjust my driving.
Jay
Jay
| DrBiggly | 07-07-2004 12:58 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thechickencow[/i]
[B] I adjust my driving.
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
Definitely the best thing you can do. :)
[B] I adjust my driving.
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
Definitely the best thing you can do. :)
| Warp3 | 07-07-2004 01:04 PM |
The only tire pressure adjustments I generally do are releasing air to compensate for heat (i.e., reduce back to the pressure settings from the previous run...and even then only on an event that's moving quickly enough where the tires don't cool back down between runs) or if I'm not reaching or am rolling onto the sidewalls. I have adjusted the struts on a few occasions when the rear was a little too happy to drive confidently, but rarely mess with these settings during an event and usually adjust the driver instead.
Test 'n' Tunes, however, are an entirely different animal. :)
Shane -- SM 729
Test 'n' Tunes, however, are an entirely different animal. :)
Shane -- SM 729
| kwh29 | 07-07-2004 01:06 PM |
Other than adjusting the nut behind the wheel I typically bleed the tires down to their original pressures. If it's obvious that a pressure change is necessary I'll change it but that's rare as with few runs a consistent car is a lot more valuable to me than ultimate perfection.
(Read that as "easy to drive trumps sketchy maximum grip every time")
Also, if it's hot and I remembered the sprayer that day I'll spray ice water on the intercooler.
--Kevin H.
edit: D'oh! Shane just said the same thing as me, he just typed faster. :D
(Read that as "easy to drive trumps sketchy maximum grip every time")
Also, if it's hot and I remembered the sprayer that day I'll spray ice water on the intercooler.
--Kevin H.
edit: D'oh! Shane just said the same thing as me, he just typed faster. :D
| DrBiggly | 07-07-2004 01:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kwh29[/i]
[B] (Read that as "easy to drive trumps sketchy maximum grip every time")
[/B][/QUOTE]
Why does maximum grip have to be sketchy? :)
[B] (Read that as "easy to drive trumps sketchy maximum grip every time")
[/B][/QUOTE]
Why does maximum grip have to be sketchy? :)
| zzyzx | 07-07-2004 01:16 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thechickencow [/i]
[B]I adjust my driving.
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
That may be enough if you're in a stock-class car, but ain't gonna cut it for ST*/SP+
- Steve
[B]I adjust my driving.
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
That may be enough if you're in a stock-class car, but ain't gonna cut it for ST*/SP+
- Steve
| ChrisW | 07-07-2004 01:22 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thechickencow[/i]
[B] I adjust my driving.
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
When you have only 3 runs, that is most you can do.
Like KC said,
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] Set the car before you run based on what the course walk looked like.
Try to avoid adjusting the car unless you're absoutely sure that the adjustments you make will help solve what you're experiencing on the course.[/B][/QUOTE]
Tom's quotes are also very relivant when learning a new course.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] Analyze after the run. Was it me making mistakes or the car allowing me not to drive right. Adjust either nut behind the wheel or the shocks. I actually never mess with the air pressure as the shocks do all the fine tuning I ever need.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
[B] I adjust my driving.
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
When you have only 3 runs, that is most you can do.
Like KC said,
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] Set the car before you run based on what the course walk looked like.
Try to avoid adjusting the car unless you're absoutely sure that the adjustments you make will help solve what you're experiencing on the course.[/B][/QUOTE]
Tom's quotes are also very relivant when learning a new course.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] Analyze after the run. Was it me making mistakes or the car allowing me not to drive right. Adjust either nut behind the wheel or the shocks. I actually never mess with the air pressure as the shocks do all the fine tuning I ever need.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
| kwh29 | 07-07-2004 01:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DrBiggly[/i]
[B] Why does maximum grip have to be sketchy? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
It doesn't but it usually is it seems... One of those corallories (sp?) of Murphy's law.
--Kevin H.
[B] Why does maximum grip have to be sketchy? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
It doesn't but it usually is it seems... One of those corallories (sp?) of Murphy's law.
--Kevin H.
| thechickencow | 07-07-2004 01:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx[/i]
[B] That may be enough if you're in a stock-class car, but ain't gonna cut it for ST*/SP+
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Bah...
If I felt like changing anything would impact my times I'd work on it, but 90+% of the time I feel like its different driving that will improve my times (different line, later braking, etc).
Jay
[B] That may be enough if you're in a stock-class car, but ain't gonna cut it for ST*/SP+
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Bah...
If I felt like changing anything would impact my times I'd work on it, but 90+% of the time I feel like its different driving that will improve my times (different line, later braking, etc).
Jay
| DrBiggly | 07-07-2004 01:42 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kwh29[/i]
[B] It doesn't but it usually is it seems... One of those corallories (sp?) of Murphy's law.
--Kevin H. [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
[B] It doesn't but it usually is it seems... One of those corallories (sp?) of Murphy's law.
--Kevin H. [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
| jmott | 07-07-2004 01:58 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DrBiggly [/i]
[B]Why does maximum grip have to be sketchy? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
sketchy is easier to drive for me.
Id much rather have to work to control the rear end than work to not understeer into a cone.
=)
[B]Why does maximum grip have to be sketchy? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
sketchy is easier to drive for me.
Id much rather have to work to control the rear end than work to not understeer into a cone.
=)
| kwh29 | 07-07-2004 02:08 PM |
This is pretty OT from the original thread topic, but here goes:
I'm not really talking about basic understeer/oversteer when I mean sketchy. I'm talking about things that make the car unpredictable. For example, back when I was autocrossing the Jetta (in HS -- couldn't change much) the car was fastest set up in a way that it understeered on corner entry then borderline snap oversteered mid-corner. It was anything but predictable and no one else could drive the car fast. In that case setting the car up to be predictable just didn't work.
Luckily on the WRX it's possible to set the car up to not change character _dramatically_ in mid-corner. I think everyone here would agree that similar character in every stage of the corner is a lot easier to drive than something that changes a lot with different inputs.
--Kevin H.
I'm not really talking about basic understeer/oversteer when I mean sketchy. I'm talking about things that make the car unpredictable. For example, back when I was autocrossing the Jetta (in HS -- couldn't change much) the car was fastest set up in a way that it understeered on corner entry then borderline snap oversteered mid-corner. It was anything but predictable and no one else could drive the car fast. In that case setting the car up to be predictable just didn't work.
Luckily on the WRX it's possible to set the car up to not change character _dramatically_ in mid-corner. I think everyone here would agree that similar character in every stage of the corner is a lot easier to drive than something that changes a lot with different inputs.
--Kevin H.
| DrBiggly | 07-07-2004 02:23 PM |
Oh now that I will most definitely agree with. :)
| gbwrx | 07-15-2004 12:14 AM |
I adjust my seat a notch or two.
| KoneKiller | 07-15-2004 02:36 AM |
I don't think there is a whole lotta value in adjusting the car until you, as the driver, become consistent.
| KC | 07-15-2004 07:43 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KoneKiller[/i]
[B] I don't think there is a whole lotta value in adjusting the car until you, as the driver, become consistent. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ding ding ding ding!!
Give that man a ceeee-gar!
[B] I don't think there is a whole lotta value in adjusting the car until you, as the driver, become consistent. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ding ding ding ding!!
Give that man a ceeee-gar!
| makofoto | 07-15-2004 11:51 AM |
At the Evo School last weekend ... we ended doing a mini AX ... three laps ... my three times were within almost 0.10 seconds ... each slightly faster.
I'm pretty consistent ... I almost never hit cones ... yeah ... and bad thing ... :lol:
Also, I'm consistently around 7th place out of 25 in Street Modified ... :mad: ... but everyone ahead of me has R compounds ... so I'm hoping I'll finally move up when I get back on R tires. ;)
The cars ahead of me are usually two trailered Camaros, a M3 driven by a fellow with 25 + years of racing experience, another SM M3, a tuning shop prepped Integra, another Integra and a Supra ... even with my Azenis, I'm right on the heels of the three cars just ahead of me ... of the 13 or so Suby's, 3 STI's and 3 Evos ... I'm usually 3rd fastest ... one STI and one Very Well driven STS Impreza RS beat me consistently.
I'm pretty consistent ... I almost never hit cones ... yeah ... and bad thing ... :lol:
Also, I'm consistently around 7th place out of 25 in Street Modified ... :mad: ... but everyone ahead of me has R compounds ... so I'm hoping I'll finally move up when I get back on R tires. ;)
The cars ahead of me are usually two trailered Camaros, a M3 driven by a fellow with 25 + years of racing experience, another SM M3, a tuning shop prepped Integra, another Integra and a Supra ... even with my Azenis, I'm right on the heels of the three cars just ahead of me ... of the 13 or so Suby's, 3 STI's and 3 Evos ... I'm usually 3rd fastest ... one STI and one Very Well driven STS Impreza RS beat me consistently.
| ratt_finkel | 07-15-2004 12:15 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KoneKiller [/i]
[B]I don't think there is a whole lotta value in adjusting the car until you, as the driver, become consistent. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, but where do you draw the line between consistency, and just not driving the car right?
I remember in an event several months ago. Where I ran 3 46.0xx times in a row. Each run with slightly different driving styles. Is that really me being consistent, or is that all the car had?
[B]I don't think there is a whole lotta value in adjusting the car until you, as the driver, become consistent. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, but where do you draw the line between consistency, and just not driving the car right?
I remember in an event several months ago. Where I ran 3 46.0xx times in a row. Each run with slightly different driving styles. Is that really me being consistent, or is that all the car had?
| Fred | 07-15-2004 01:49 PM |
It's NEVER "all the car had."
We got 5 runs at our last autox, and I ran all 5 within +/- 0.2 sec (my 2nd run was my fastest). It was only 0.1 sec from 1st overall indexed :mad: , but there is no way I would blame the car for not taking 1st. Each run there was somewhere I screwed up, and if I hadn't screwed up at the finish on the last run, I KNOW I could've dropped 0.5 sec. There are so many places that you lose time it's just not even funny.
Unless a miracle happens, nobody will EVER get all the car has. There are just some people who can get 99.9% of it most of the time - and they're called national champions.
We got 5 runs at our last autox, and I ran all 5 within +/- 0.2 sec (my 2nd run was my fastest). It was only 0.1 sec from 1st overall indexed :mad: , but there is no way I would blame the car for not taking 1st. Each run there was somewhere I screwed up, and if I hadn't screwed up at the finish on the last run, I KNOW I could've dropped 0.5 sec. There are so many places that you lose time it's just not even funny.
Unless a miracle happens, nobody will EVER get all the car has. There are just some people who can get 99.9% of it most of the time - and they're called national champions.
| makofoto | 07-15-2004 01:54 PM |
Jean Kinser-Dana
Evolution Performance Driving School
"A car will only be as fast as the driver makes it"
"The most important go fast part of any car is the driver"
Evolution Performance Driving School
"A car will only be as fast as the driver makes it"
"The most important go fast part of any car is the driver"
| TyrannosaurusWRX | 07-16-2004 12:20 PM |
[QUOTE]I adjust my seat a notch or two.[/QUOTE]
The seat notchieness is everyting
The seat notchieness is everyting
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