| 575rider | 07-14-2006 02:20 AM |
what tires are good all around???
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I was looking at Toyo T1-R's but they don't have good reviews. Right now I have Goodyear F1's which are decent but a little on the noisy side.
I want a good tire for wet and dry, 7-10 autoX's a yr., 2-3 track days a yr, will last 25K miles, not too noisy, and less than $200 per. I'm sure theres been threads about this already but newer tires seem to come out all the time so thought I'd ask.
I've had toyo proxes 4's which are OK, but not the level of traction I'm shooting for. What tires are people using that drive in the wet alot that will also stick really well in the dry? Anyone have or know of some tires that fit my criteria?
should of put this under tire/ wheel...any moderaters out there that can move it, please? thanks
I want a good tire for wet and dry, 7-10 autoX's a yr., 2-3 track days a yr, will last 25K miles, not too noisy, and less than $200 per. I'm sure theres been threads about this already but newer tires seem to come out all the time so thought I'd ask.
I've had toyo proxes 4's which are OK, but not the level of traction I'm shooting for. What tires are people using that drive in the wet alot that will also stick really well in the dry? Anyone have or know of some tires that fit my criteria?
should of put this under tire/ wheel...any moderaters out there that can move it, please? thanks
| REX8 | 07-14-2006 02:32 AM |
MX's...
RS-2's will hold up a track day, although not like the MX's
RS-2's will hold up a track day, although not like the MX's
| REVNU | 07-14-2006 02:33 AM |
Try the Hankook RS-2's. Pretty quiet tires compared to the Kumho MX's I used to have. Those things were LOUD! Great performance tires for the money. You can get either one for around 100-125 per tire.
~REVNU
~REVNU
| waktasz | 07-14-2006 02:36 AM |
I don't think the rs2's will last 25k with 3 track days on them.
| REVNU | 07-14-2006 02:38 AM |
^^^
I think he's right. MX's might hold up better for that kind of abuse. I think the RS-2 is a better everyday street tire though.
~ REVNU
I think he's right. MX's might hold up better for that kind of abuse. I think the RS-2 is a better everyday street tire though.
~ REVNU
| REX8 | 07-14-2006 02:39 AM |
[QUOTE=waktasz]I don't think the rs2's will last 25k with 3 track days on them.[/QUOTE]
And they don't deal with heat nearly as well as MX's. Significanty greasier hot...
The MX's really becaome the ticket when you throw in track days...
And they don't deal with heat nearly as well as MX's. Significanty greasier hot...
The MX's really becaome the ticket when you throw in track days...
| Paisan | 07-14-2006 03:30 AM |
If you don't take track days into the mix I'd say the Sumitommo HTR+ which is one of the best all season tires IMHO for the money. For <$100/each you can get a set of those and a set of dedicated track/auto-x tires for your car.
-mike
-mike
| KC | 07-14-2006 07:42 AM |
I do not believe there is a tire that will last that many auto-xes and track days that will also meet your "I want a good tire for [B]wet[/B] and dry" criteria.
The MX may be able to hold up to the overall dry abuse, but once it is wet, all bets are off. They're not good wet tires.
7-10 autoxes will wear down a set of the top level auto-x tires pretty well (never mind the track days) that they'll be pretty much ineffective in the rain for the remainder of the 25K miles you want to drive on them.
So with that in mind, you're asking way too much out of the tires you're looking for, IMHO. You would need another set of wheels with good tires on them to make them last just for the events, never mind the 25K miles you want to put on them... especially since you mentioned they need to be good in the wet a few times in your post.
--kC
The MX may be able to hold up to the overall dry abuse, but once it is wet, all bets are off. They're not good wet tires.
7-10 autoxes will wear down a set of the top level auto-x tires pretty well (never mind the track days) that they'll be pretty much ineffective in the rain for the remainder of the 25K miles you want to drive on them.
So with that in mind, you're asking way too much out of the tires you're looking for, IMHO. You would need another set of wheels with good tires on them to make them last just for the events, never mind the 25K miles you want to put on them... especially since you mentioned they need to be good in the wet a few times in your post.
--kC
| Scooby921 | 07-14-2006 07:49 AM |
To get 25k miles out of a tire, you are already looking at a higher treadlife rating...280+. That pretty much throws out the high traction autocross tires like the Falken Azenis, Hankook R-S2, etc. I've run 7 autocrosses and about 6 months of daily driving on my Hankooks, they are down to the wear bars. As for finding something that is good both wet and dry...not likely for the price range you listed. I'd suggest the Goodyear GS-D3, but they are expensive and I have no idea how they'll hold up at the track.
I would go with some of the other suggestions. Get a second set of wheels and tires for your autocross / track events and just buy a cheaper set of all-seasons for your daily drive.
I would go with some of the other suggestions. Get a second set of wheels and tires for your autocross / track events and just buy a cheaper set of all-seasons for your daily drive.
| WJM | 07-14-2006 08:58 AM |
Go with the MX's.
The RA1's are an AWESOME tire. However, they are a Rcompound tire...and on a WRX, you might get lucky seeing 2~3 autox's and 5k miles on the street. After about 1 or 2 trackdays, they are done for most street use...you might get some autox action, but thats it.
I'd get the RA1's for autox and track...but get something else, like the RS2, for the street.
The RS2's are an excellent autox tire, but when they get hot, they are done. I would NOT reccomend taking them onto a road course at all, unless you make the car feather light (sub 2400 lbs with 225 width, sub 2600 or better with 235, sub 2800 with 245 width).
Back to the MX's...they take the heat, they last a good while (as long as you are mindful of suspension setup and dont kill the tire by overloading a specific region of the tire). However, once worn down, they are not that great in the wet. New and at 100%~80% tread, they are fine...once they get a heavy heatcycle on them and you wear them down past 80%...you might as well have RE92's on the car inthe rain.
However, the tire that WILL fit your criteria(but you will most likely only see 10k miles out of it with the autox AND track days), as long as you TAKE CARE OF IT (meaning, PROPER SUSPENSION SETUP and MINDFUL DRIVING)...is the Bridgestone Potenza RE070 (the tire that comes stock on the STi). It takes the heat, it does EXCELLENT in the rain (even with 2/32's left) and its a rock solid tire with sidewalls stiffer than diamonds.
But if you want something that might take all the abuse, and mileage...but you sill severly sacrifice speed and performance...go with the BS-Potenza RE950.
The RA1's are an AWESOME tire. However, they are a Rcompound tire...and on a WRX, you might get lucky seeing 2~3 autox's and 5k miles on the street. After about 1 or 2 trackdays, they are done for most street use...you might get some autox action, but thats it.
I'd get the RA1's for autox and track...but get something else, like the RS2, for the street.
The RS2's are an excellent autox tire, but when they get hot, they are done. I would NOT reccomend taking them onto a road course at all, unless you make the car feather light (sub 2400 lbs with 225 width, sub 2600 or better with 235, sub 2800 with 245 width).
Back to the MX's...they take the heat, they last a good while (as long as you are mindful of suspension setup and dont kill the tire by overloading a specific region of the tire). However, once worn down, they are not that great in the wet. New and at 100%~80% tread, they are fine...once they get a heavy heatcycle on them and you wear them down past 80%...you might as well have RE92's on the car inthe rain.
However, the tire that WILL fit your criteria(but you will most likely only see 10k miles out of it with the autox AND track days), as long as you TAKE CARE OF IT (meaning, PROPER SUSPENSION SETUP and MINDFUL DRIVING)...is the Bridgestone Potenza RE070 (the tire that comes stock on the STi). It takes the heat, it does EXCELLENT in the rain (even with 2/32's left) and its a rock solid tire with sidewalls stiffer than diamonds.
But if you want something that might take all the abuse, and mileage...but you sill severly sacrifice speed and performance...go with the BS-Potenza RE950.
| 575rider | 07-14-2006 09:38 AM |
Yeah, I thought I was probably asking too much. I'll have to spend the extra money now for extra track/ autoX tires and wheels, which is really what I'd like to have anyway. I'm going to spend the money either way, buying tires every year or up front right now.
Thanks for all the suggestions on tires, I'll check into all of them and see what will work best.
Thanks for all the suggestions on tires, I'll check into all of them and see what will work best.
| spazegun2213 | 07-14-2006 09:40 AM |
I agree that the toyos are GREAT!!! however, if this is for a track car the Hoosier R's are only like another $20-30 a tire for full on slicks.
but a set of RA-1's are great and last forever!! I know a SM driver that got almost 2 seasons out of his.
but a set of RA-1's are great and last forever!! I know a SM driver that got almost 2 seasons out of his.
| sachilles | 07-14-2006 09:43 AM |
There was a time when I ran the kumho 712's as my all around tire in a situation you describe.
It is a compromise. On the street there were fine, very good in the wet. At autocrosses, they were not the best street tire I ever ran, but not the worse.
They get a little noisey after a while.
This is my experience with my audi a4...which is "a bit" heavier than a wrx, yet run the same oem size 205/55 16
They lasted two seasons for me(late april to late october). This is the softer of the two versions.
My wife ran the harder version on her A4(doesn't autocross, but does drive 800+ miles a week) and got 2 and a half seasons out of them.
If you are going after the class win with these tires on, you've got your work cut out for you. However, if you are just going for fun they work just fine.
I'm not sure what the deal is with the kumho spt, haven't heard any real world reviews....but I believe they were intended to be better in every respect, have no clue if that is correct or not.
The 712 is indeed a compromise, but its cheap
It is a compromise. On the street there were fine, very good in the wet. At autocrosses, they were not the best street tire I ever ran, but not the worse.
They get a little noisey after a while.
This is my experience with my audi a4...which is "a bit" heavier than a wrx, yet run the same oem size 205/55 16
They lasted two seasons for me(late april to late october). This is the softer of the two versions.
My wife ran the harder version on her A4(doesn't autocross, but does drive 800+ miles a week) and got 2 and a half seasons out of them.
If you are going after the class win with these tires on, you've got your work cut out for you. However, if you are just going for fun they work just fine.
I'm not sure what the deal is with the kumho spt, haven't heard any real world reviews....but I believe they were intended to be better in every respect, have no clue if that is correct or not.
The 712 is indeed a compromise, but its cheap
| ratt_finkel | 07-14-2006 11:10 AM |
Honestly, with as much "performance" driving as you have planned. It would be silly NOT to get an extra set of rims and tires. I'd actually suggest a set of Victoracers for your track and auto-x duty. And a set of Hankooks for the street. As they are one of the best rain tires out there. Though, they do wear quickly. But hey, they are cheap.
| Scooby South | 07-14-2006 12:15 PM |
[QUOTE=sachilles]There was a time when I ran the kumho 712's as my all around tire in a situation you describe.
It is a compromise. On the street there were fine, very good in the wet. At autocrosses, they were not the best street tire I ever ran, but not the worse.
They get a little noisey after a while.
This is my experience with my audi a4...which is "a bit" heavier than a wrx, yet run the same oem size 205/55 16
They lasted two seasons for me(late april to late october). This is the softer of the two versions.
My wife ran the harder version on her A4(doesn't autocross, but does drive 800+ miles a week) and got 2 and a half seasons out of them.
If you are going after the class win with these tires on, you've got your work cut out for you. However, if you are just going for fun they work just fine.
I'm not sure what the deal is with the kumho spt, haven't heard any real world reviews....but I believe they were intended to be better in every respect, have no clue if that is correct or not.
The 712 is indeed a compromise, but its cheap[/QUOTE]
712's no mas.....ASX = new 712..
SPT's are one step up..
Then the MX's
It is a compromise. On the street there were fine, very good in the wet. At autocrosses, they were not the best street tire I ever ran, but not the worse.
They get a little noisey after a while.
This is my experience with my audi a4...which is "a bit" heavier than a wrx, yet run the same oem size 205/55 16
They lasted two seasons for me(late april to late october). This is the softer of the two versions.
My wife ran the harder version on her A4(doesn't autocross, but does drive 800+ miles a week) and got 2 and a half seasons out of them.
If you are going after the class win with these tires on, you've got your work cut out for you. However, if you are just going for fun they work just fine.
I'm not sure what the deal is with the kumho spt, haven't heard any real world reviews....but I believe they were intended to be better in every respect, have no clue if that is correct or not.
The 712 is indeed a compromise, but its cheap[/QUOTE]
712's no mas.....ASX = new 712..
SPT's are one step up..
Then the MX's
| MFR Sweep | 07-14-2006 01:06 PM |
My GF has Nitto Neo-Gens on her GLi. They seem pretty grippy in normal situation and are decent as an autoX tire.
And they are pretty cheap to.
And they are pretty cheap to.
| Erock WRX | 07-14-2006 03:11 PM |
I ran Nitto Neo-Gens for 24000 miles including 8 track days. I was able to get them a little greasy by the end of the day. I think the sidewall was pretty stiff and i drove them is the snow a bit too. I'm think they were a great all around tire. I may go back after this super cheap set are toast.
| silentbob343 | 07-14-2006 03:52 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]712's no mas.....ASX = new 712..
SPT's are one step up..
Then the MX's[/QUOTE]
I thought they simply changed the name from 712 to Supra
[url]http://www.kumhousa.com/Products/PtnDetails.asp?CatID=7&mainCatID=1[/url]
SPT's are one step up..
Then the MX's[/QUOTE]
I thought they simply changed the name from 712 to Supra
[url]http://www.kumhousa.com/Products/PtnDetails.asp?CatID=7&mainCatID=1[/url]
| REX8 | 07-14-2006 04:21 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]712's no mas.....ASX = new 712..
SPT's are one step up..
Then the MX's[/QUOTE]
No, the 712's are summer's....the ASX's are all-seasons...
You can definately still by 712's...
^^^which were once the favorite for a long lasting/cheap/autox/track day summer tire...my how times have changed... :lol:
But in any event, the ASX's are certainly not the replacement/even in the same class of tire as the 712's...
SPT's are one step up..
Then the MX's[/QUOTE]
No, the 712's are summer's....the ASX's are all-seasons...
You can definately still by 712's...
^^^which were once the favorite for a long lasting/cheap/autox/track day summer tire...my how times have changed... :lol:
But in any event, the ASX's are certainly not the replacement/even in the same class of tire as the 712's...
| sachilles | 07-14-2006 05:06 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8]No, the 712's are summer's....the ASX's are all-seasons...
You can definately still by 712's...
^^^which were once the favorite for a long lasting/cheap/autox/track day summer tire...my how times have changed... :lol:
But in any event, the ASX's are certainly not the replacement/even in the same class of tire as the 712's...[/QUOTE]
Kind of wondered....as I saw them on the tire rack the other day.
Certainly thought the asx wouldn't be an adequate replacement.
The 712 was a favorite street tire for autocross for a little while, back when kumho wasn't all that well known yet. I gave them a shot, cause I knew they made dot slicks. I was pretty happy with them....then those new fangled Falken Azenis started showing up (rt215). Now there are quite a few choices and the relative price in that category has gone up.
I still think the 712 is very good in the rain on a daily driver.
You can definately still by 712's...
^^^which were once the favorite for a long lasting/cheap/autox/track day summer tire...my how times have changed... :lol:
But in any event, the ASX's are certainly not the replacement/even in the same class of tire as the 712's...[/QUOTE]
Kind of wondered....as I saw them on the tire rack the other day.
Certainly thought the asx wouldn't be an adequate replacement.
The 712 was a favorite street tire for autocross for a little while, back when kumho wasn't all that well known yet. I gave them a shot, cause I knew they made dot slicks. I was pretty happy with them....then those new fangled Falken Azenis started showing up (rt215). Now there are quite a few choices and the relative price in that category has gone up.
I still think the 712 is very good in the rain on a daily driver.
| REX8 | 07-15-2006 11:46 AM |
[QUOTE=sachilles]Kind of wondered....as I saw them on the tire rack the other day.
Certainly thought the asx wouldn't be an adequate replacement.
The 712 was a favorite street tire for autocross for a little while, back when kumho wasn't all that well known yet. I gave them a shot, cause I knew they made dot slicks. I was pretty happy with them....then those new fangled Falken Azenis started showing up (rt215). Now there are quite a few choices and the relative price in that category has gone up.
I still think the 712 is very good in the rain on a daily driver.[/QUOTE]
It is...they wear like steel, have decent grip, etc. They've only gotten a bad rap as of late because of the improved competition...
But then again....NONE of the competition lasts as long and can deal with so many different conditions...for the money that is...
Heck, even Grassroots Motorsports gave them the nod in there 2002 or 2003 tire test as being the tire to have for a budget autox/track/daily driver...
Certainly thought the asx wouldn't be an adequate replacement.
The 712 was a favorite street tire for autocross for a little while, back when kumho wasn't all that well known yet. I gave them a shot, cause I knew they made dot slicks. I was pretty happy with them....then those new fangled Falken Azenis started showing up (rt215). Now there are quite a few choices and the relative price in that category has gone up.
I still think the 712 is very good in the rain on a daily driver.[/QUOTE]
It is...they wear like steel, have decent grip, etc. They've only gotten a bad rap as of late because of the improved competition...
But then again....NONE of the competition lasts as long and can deal with so many different conditions...for the money that is...
Heck, even Grassroots Motorsports gave them the nod in there 2002 or 2003 tire test as being the tire to have for a budget autox/track/daily driver...
| kwh29 | 07-15-2006 01:23 PM |
I've never liked the 712 because they get so noisy and rough riding as they age.
Your list of desires for the tire is virtually impossible to meet. Like KC said, get another set of wheels and get some dedicated track/autox tires. The Hoosier A6 or Kumho V710 are far too short lived for what you seem to want to do. I'd strongly suggest the Toyo RA-1 or Yoko A032R as both can handle the heat of track days and both wear like iron. I used a set of RA-1's as daily driver summer tires and auto-x tires for a season and got nearly 7k miles out of them! (granted that was on a light car - an A2 Jetta) Either tire should easily handle a season of autocrosses and track days.
For street tires, it's hard to beat the RE-750. I used them on the WRX for about 20k miles before I sold it and they were quiet, smooth, great in rain, and 90% of the S-03/Azenis in the dry. Based on the state they were in when I sold the car it looked like the tires would last 35-45k.
--Kevin H.
Your list of desires for the tire is virtually impossible to meet. Like KC said, get another set of wheels and get some dedicated track/autox tires. The Hoosier A6 or Kumho V710 are far too short lived for what you seem to want to do. I'd strongly suggest the Toyo RA-1 or Yoko A032R as both can handle the heat of track days and both wear like iron. I used a set of RA-1's as daily driver summer tires and auto-x tires for a season and got nearly 7k miles out of them! (granted that was on a light car - an A2 Jetta) Either tire should easily handle a season of autocrosses and track days.
For street tires, it's hard to beat the RE-750. I used them on the WRX for about 20k miles before I sold it and they were quiet, smooth, great in rain, and 90% of the S-03/Azenis in the dry. Based on the state they were in when I sold the car it looked like the tires would last 35-45k.
--Kevin H.
| Scooby South | 07-15-2006 09:32 PM |
well if you can get 712's ..they are cheap decent tires...according to my Tirerack rep...712's are no longer...thats been about 6 monthes ago already...
Bill
Bill
| REX8 | 07-15-2006 11:02 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]well if you can get 712's ..they are cheap decent tires...according to my Tirerack rep...712's are no longer...thats been about 6 monthes ago already...
Bill[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Kumho&model=ECSTA+Supra+712[/url]
Maybe the rep was misinformed...They certainly are still in-stock...maybe this is still "leftover" but I doubt it. They have every size.
Bill[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Kumho&model=ECSTA+Supra+712[/url]
Maybe the rep was misinformed...They certainly are still in-stock...maybe this is still "leftover" but I doubt it. They have every size.
| silentbob343 | 07-15-2006 11:02 PM |
as does discount tire
| doylfish | 07-15-2006 11:03 PM |
i think someone already mentioned Hankook RS-2's, but those would be my choice as well
| V8eta | 07-16-2006 07:01 PM |
I like the RS2's as well as a road/track tire but i like the look of those Kumho V710's for the track, might have to see if i can get them here.
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