| gumby647 | 08-05-2002 09:23 AM |
Why does SCCA have suck?
I've been reading you peeps bitch about the SCCA rally stuff and thought that maybe they just didn't know how to run a rally. There mainstay is roadracing so mayby that's what they do best.
Lately I've been considering getting out of motorcycle racing and getting into a car. Less abuse on the body. This past weekend I went and helped a freind of mine race a Formula Mazda car in an SCCA regional at Daytona. I've never been to a car club race before so I wanted to see how things ran.
It was one of the most disorganized events I've been to. Hell even my credentials were labeled 2001. The first day I shot photos from the infeild and they were removing cars at very dangerous times and then a car spun and stalled right on the edge of the track and they just left it there for the remainder of the race. The amount of down time between races was amazing. They would make last call to the grid and then the session wouldn't start for another half hour while the drivers cooked in the sun. Then later on it rained and some races had to be pushed back to the next day. That made things even worse.
On sunday they cut out practice to run the leftover races which was fine except we didn't know about it until another team told us. Then after qualifying we thought we had some time to relax and get lunch when heard his group get called to the grid. We had to rush the car out to make the race. As we were getting ready we noticed that there were many teams around us with their cars on stands and noone around so it wasn't just us that didn't know what was going on. They should have had the drivers meeting before the first race of the day not after they've already had some. That way every one knows what is going on and knew important things like your race has been shortened by two laps or it starts an hour and fourty minutes before you thought it did.
To make it even worse I was standing neear the officials durring the race and whenever anyone wanted to complain they just wanted to revoke their license. Rather than say we're sorry we'll try to do better next time they just said if you don't like it leave. The drivers had a legitimate bitch and the officials didn't care. Soe of these guys have spent several thousands of dollars to be there to race for no prize money whatsoever and they didn't get to race because the organizing body doesn't seem to care.
If I ever do decide to get into car racing I can asure you that it will not be with SCCA. I'll have to go to some where else. I also don't think I'll complain about muuch of anything at my motorcycle races any more because these people know how to put on an event.
Lately I've been considering getting out of motorcycle racing and getting into a car. Less abuse on the body. This past weekend I went and helped a freind of mine race a Formula Mazda car in an SCCA regional at Daytona. I've never been to a car club race before so I wanted to see how things ran.
It was one of the most disorganized events I've been to. Hell even my credentials were labeled 2001. The first day I shot photos from the infeild and they were removing cars at very dangerous times and then a car spun and stalled right on the edge of the track and they just left it there for the remainder of the race. The amount of down time between races was amazing. They would make last call to the grid and then the session wouldn't start for another half hour while the drivers cooked in the sun. Then later on it rained and some races had to be pushed back to the next day. That made things even worse.
On sunday they cut out practice to run the leftover races which was fine except we didn't know about it until another team told us. Then after qualifying we thought we had some time to relax and get lunch when heard his group get called to the grid. We had to rush the car out to make the race. As we were getting ready we noticed that there were many teams around us with their cars on stands and noone around so it wasn't just us that didn't know what was going on. They should have had the drivers meeting before the first race of the day not after they've already had some. That way every one knows what is going on and knew important things like your race has been shortened by two laps or it starts an hour and fourty minutes before you thought it did.
To make it even worse I was standing neear the officials durring the race and whenever anyone wanted to complain they just wanted to revoke their license. Rather than say we're sorry we'll try to do better next time they just said if you don't like it leave. The drivers had a legitimate bitch and the officials didn't care. Soe of these guys have spent several thousands of dollars to be there to race for no prize money whatsoever and they didn't get to race because the organizing body doesn't seem to care.
If I ever do decide to get into car racing I can asure you that it will not be with SCCA. I'll have to go to some where else. I also don't think I'll complain about muuch of anything at my motorcycle races any more because these people know how to put on an event.
| Coach | 08-05-2002 11:01 AM |
Hey Gumby,
I was at the track on Sunday as well and did notice the problems you mentioned. I think it was about 11:45 when my friend and I were walking through the grid before a race and overheard some disturbing conversations. I remember hearing one guy say he got a call on his cell letting him know his race was starting before lunch instead of after lunch and that he needed to get his car on the grid NOW!
This is the way I see it. If I find out that I was enjoing a nice turkey sub at Subway with my crew on our lunch break, while my race was being run, I would probably blow a fuse. This may be small time racing, but these people send tons of money and travel long distances for this passion called racing. I'm reminded of that movie with Michael Douglas called "Falling Down". :mad:
The SCCA prides themself on being professional but I did not see it this weekend.
P.S I also noticed an instance where a big tow truck was driving in the grass right next to the track where formula cars were competing in serious green flag racing. Can you imagine what would happen if one of those little cars slid off the track and rammed itself into or under that truck. Not the best judgement in my opinion. :confused:
I was at the track on Sunday as well and did notice the problems you mentioned. I think it was about 11:45 when my friend and I were walking through the grid before a race and overheard some disturbing conversations. I remember hearing one guy say he got a call on his cell letting him know his race was starting before lunch instead of after lunch and that he needed to get his car on the grid NOW!
This is the way I see it. If I find out that I was enjoing a nice turkey sub at Subway with my crew on our lunch break, while my race was being run, I would probably blow a fuse. This may be small time racing, but these people send tons of money and travel long distances for this passion called racing. I'm reminded of that movie with Michael Douglas called "Falling Down". :mad:
The SCCA prides themself on being professional but I did not see it this weekend.
P.S I also noticed an instance where a big tow truck was driving in the grass right next to the track where formula cars were competing in serious green flag racing. Can you imagine what would happen if one of those little cars slid off the track and rammed itself into or under that truck. Not the best judgement in my opinion. :confused:
| Jersey Mike | 08-05-2002 11:10 AM |
Some more reasons' among others I am not renewing my membership.
| Thug | 08-05-2002 11:12 AM |
I will not be renewing my SCCA license this year either. I will instead be getting a [URL=http://www.carsrally.ca]CARS[/URL] license instead. Which will allow me to compete in both US and Canadian events.
| gary p | 08-05-2002 11:41 AM |
Sounds like a pretty bad weekend for you and even worse for the drivers. But it is not really fair to condemn the entire SCCA based your experience at a single event hosted by a single region.
| Coach | 08-05-2002 11:49 AM |
Gary,
I agree with you 100%. The SCCA is the backbone of racing in the US. From autocross to Pro Rally, the SCCA give the enthausists a chance to participate in our passion.
The problem this weekend was the management that day at that track. That is the problem that needs to be fixed.
I agree with you 100%. The SCCA is the backbone of racing in the US. From autocross to Pro Rally, the SCCA give the enthausists a chance to participate in our passion.
The problem this weekend was the management that day at that track. That is the problem that needs to be fixed.
| gumby647 | 08-05-2002 12:16 PM |
Ture, I have only been to one race weekend put on by one region. But this is the sort of stuff I've heard people complain about for years. Besides it does me no good if the North Pacific region is the best in the world if I'm in the Southeast.
I'm I wrong in thinking that the SCCA comes up with the regulations and guidlines used to run an event. If a region can't make those standards then maybe they should lose thier sanction.
My friend Paul with the FM car seems to think the problem is due to the fact the organization is run by old men. They have done it this way for the last 75 years and there's no need to change it now. Well times change. We used to have to wear pants in the hot pit too, ten years ago. You can't have hot brolly girls in long pants.:D
I'm I wrong in thinking that the SCCA comes up with the regulations and guidlines used to run an event. If a region can't make those standards then maybe they should lose thier sanction.
My friend Paul with the FM car seems to think the problem is due to the fact the organization is run by old men. They have done it this way for the last 75 years and there's no need to change it now. Well times change. We used to have to wear pants in the hot pit too, ten years ago. You can't have hot brolly girls in long pants.:D
| Coach | 08-05-2002 12:19 PM |
"Hot Brolly Girls"? What the he!! is a Brolly?:confused:
| IXLR8 | 08-05-2002 12:28 PM |
"brolly" = umbrella, mate...
| gumby647 | 08-05-2002 12:31 PM |
umbrella + Girl = Brolly girl
[IMG]http://www.2wf.com/imagehosting/images/{242C6616-3FC7-475E-AD75-A224119ACC68}.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.2wf.com/imagehosting/images/{242C6616-3FC7-475E-AD75-A224119ACC68}.jpg[/IMG]
| Coach | 08-05-2002 12:37 PM |
Thanks for the explanation IXLR8. As for you Gumby, the only place you will see some "Hot Brolly" girls is at a one of the following venues: F1, CART, SBK, MotoGP, and at Hooters if it's raining on the patio.
:D
:D
| Jersey Mike | 08-05-2002 12:51 PM |
I had my membership with South Jersey Region, at the time the only reason I signed up was because I was running autocross every weekend they ran. In the end it saved me a few bucks, but the last two years they have'nt managed to find another site for their events...I'm in Southern New Jersey...parking lot's a plenty, I think it's complete BS that they can't find a new place for events. I've even suggested a few places in my county that would be perfect, some are just run-down strip malls true but the parking lots are still in decent shape. What was their answer to my suggestion, "Go get a hold of the owner for us", it's not my job to find a host events, that is what the board is supposed to be there for. I've tried to contact those same people, no replie to even the simplist questions.
The attitude of the organizers has been really poor to not take the time to contact it's members or get it in gear to find a location for the events.
Even at the Maine Forest Rally, I had to deal with event organizers on my stage that where as out of control as some of the fans. Do these people get paid to not do their job?
The attitude of the organizers has been really poor to not take the time to contact it's members or get it in gear to find a location for the events.
Even at the Maine Forest Rally, I had to deal with event organizers on my stage that where as out of control as some of the fans. Do these people get paid to not do their job?
| gumby647 | 08-05-2002 01:01 PM |
Now I know how hard it is to find someplace to hold an autocross event. My local club has been trying to find someplace new since 9/11. They are not afilliated with SCCA btw. Most places you can't get ahold of the right person to say yes or no, or they are afraird to let you hold an event there due to potential liability.
| Jersey Mike | 08-05-2002 01:06 PM |
I should clear up that the region has been holding events, but on a very limited schedule, the talk about a new location has been around since the River Sharks areana was built in Camden. A tentavie schedule is not worth my money.
| Coach | 08-05-2002 01:09 PM |
Gumby,
I'm sure your talking about the Martin Sports Car Club. You may already know this, but they are running their events in Palm Bay on the second Sunday each month. It's a pain in the a$$ drive but a better surface.
I'm sure your talking about the Martin Sports Car Club. You may already know this, but they are running their events in Palm Bay on the second Sunday each month. It's a pain in the a$$ drive but a better surface.
| GarySheehan | 08-05-2002 01:41 PM |
I've been to some SCCA races that were like the one mentioned above, and been to some that seemed to be run with by the minute accuracy. It really depends on the region and the people they have up in race control that weekend. Perhaps you should take this up with your Regional Director.
As for the tow truck on the track, I don't see what the issue is. As long as there is a white flag displayed in the corner before where the truck is, there is no reason to stop racing. I'm sure every driver out there would have said that they preferred to continue racing.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
As for the tow truck on the track, I don't see what the issue is. As long as there is a white flag displayed in the corner before where the truck is, there is no reason to stop racing. I'm sure every driver out there would have said that they preferred to continue racing.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Narcisse91 | 08-05-2002 02:09 PM |
I think the comments above should be forwarded farther up the ladder from the local region putting on the event. The real test of the SCCA will be to see if they do anything about it. Unless they're involved, though, I don't think it's fair to criticize the SCCA as a whole because you're unhappy with the way your region ran an event.
| Coach | 08-05-2002 04:07 PM |
Gary,
My only experience in a race is participating in my local autocross events. You obviously know the in's and out of how things work concerning a safety veichle on the track. It just seemed odd to me that those little cars were still racing when that big truck was driving in the opposite direction just ten feet off the track. Looking at how the drivers head seemed to be at the same hight as the bumper it made me cringe. If they were aware if this(White Flag?) then I guess is cool.
My only experience in a race is participating in my local autocross events. You obviously know the in's and out of how things work concerning a safety veichle on the track. It just seemed odd to me that those little cars were still racing when that big truck was driving in the opposite direction just ten feet off the track. Looking at how the drivers head seemed to be at the same hight as the bumper it made me cringe. If they were aware if this(White Flag?) then I guess is cool.
| grumbly | 08-05-2002 04:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Coach [/i]
[B] If they were aware if this(White Flag?) then I guess is cool. [/B][/QUOTE]
A white flag means some sort of official vehicle is on track. If the situation was really dangerous they probably would have a yellow flag out at that corner also.
[B] If they were aware if this(White Flag?) then I guess is cool. [/B][/QUOTE]
A white flag means some sort of official vehicle is on track. If the situation was really dangerous they probably would have a yellow flag out at that corner also.
| gary p | 08-06-2002 02:04 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jersey Mike [/i]
[B] Do these people get paid to not do their job? [/B][/QUOTE]
They don't get paid, they are volunteers. For better or for worse, 99.9% of the people who organize and staff events in the SCCA get paid nothing for their efforts.
[B] Do these people get paid to not do their job? [/B][/QUOTE]
They don't get paid, they are volunteers. For better or for worse, 99.9% of the people who organize and staff events in the SCCA get paid nothing for their efforts.
| gary p | 08-06-2002 02:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gumby647 [/i]
[B]Ture, I have only been to one race weekend put on by one region....[but] it does me no good if the North Pacific region is the best in the world if I'm in the Southeast.
[/B][/QUOTE]
There are a number of regions in the Southeast Division of the SCCA; check this page for other near-by (relative to the Northwest, anyway) regions which may be better organized and more competitor friendly:
[url]http://www.scca.org/getstarted/sediv.html[/url]
Best of luck with your 4-wheeled racing endevours, whether they be with the SCCA or another organization.
[B]Ture, I have only been to one race weekend put on by one region....[but] it does me no good if the North Pacific region is the best in the world if I'm in the Southeast.
[/B][/QUOTE]
There are a number of regions in the Southeast Division of the SCCA; check this page for other near-by (relative to the Northwest, anyway) regions which may be better organized and more competitor friendly:
[url]http://www.scca.org/getstarted/sediv.html[/url]
Best of luck with your 4-wheeled racing endevours, whether they be with the SCCA or another organization.
| jonesi | 08-06-2002 05:20 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by grumbly [/i]
[B]
A white flag means some sort of official vehicle is on track. If the situation was really dangerous they probably would have a yellow flag out at that corner also. [/B][/QUOTE]
Close, a white flag actually means slow vehicle on the track. Besides emergency and tow vehicles it may also be used for race cars no longer at speed. (We see that alot at Sears Point where the incline allows any car with engine, transmisssion or electrical problems at turn 7 or later to coast back down into the pits.) A turn the slow vehicle has just gone through should be on both a white & yellow flag. The turn before it should be warning of the upcoming situation by being on a white flag.
Back to the original comment. You need to realize that SCCA isn't really one organization, but 120+ associated groups. Some are alot better (and larger) than others.
[B]
A white flag means some sort of official vehicle is on track. If the situation was really dangerous they probably would have a yellow flag out at that corner also. [/B][/QUOTE]
Close, a white flag actually means slow vehicle on the track. Besides emergency and tow vehicles it may also be used for race cars no longer at speed. (We see that alot at Sears Point where the incline allows any car with engine, transmisssion or electrical problems at turn 7 or later to coast back down into the pits.) A turn the slow vehicle has just gone through should be on both a white & yellow flag. The turn before it should be warning of the upcoming situation by being on a white flag.
Back to the original comment. You need to realize that SCCA isn't really one organization, but 120+ associated groups. Some are alot better (and larger) than others.
| elgorey | 08-06-2002 05:58 PM |
Since the tow truck was not on track, and was moving in the opposite direction of the track, a local static yellow should have been shown.
| elgorey | 08-06-2002 06:07 PM |
There is an alternative to SCCA and that is NASA. National Auto Sport Association
Gary knows about NASA, as USTCC is a NASA series.
NASA has classes that mirror SCCA Improved Touring classes, as well as Spec Miata, Spec RX7, formula and spec racer series, as well as original series such as Honda Challenge, American Iron, USTCC, Atlantic and Pacific TCC, and pro compact.
[url]www.nasaproracing.com[/url]
I am a NASA courseworker and track school student, and next year will most likely be an official. All of the events are run in an extremely organized, very safe environments, while staying relaxed and not too uptight.
Gary knows about NASA, as USTCC is a NASA series.
NASA has classes that mirror SCCA Improved Touring classes, as well as Spec Miata, Spec RX7, formula and spec racer series, as well as original series such as Honda Challenge, American Iron, USTCC, Atlantic and Pacific TCC, and pro compact.
[url]www.nasaproracing.com[/url]
I am a NASA courseworker and track school student, and next year will most likely be an official. All of the events are run in an extremely organized, very safe environments, while staying relaxed and not too uptight.
| Stock Y-Gon | 08-07-2002 12:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey [/i]
[B]There is an alternative to SCCA and that is NASA. National Auto Sport Association
Gary knows about NASA, as USTCC is a NASA series.
NASA has classes that mirror SCCA Improved Touring classes, as well as Spec Miata, Spec RX7, formula and spec racer series, as well as original series such as Honda Challenge, American Iron, USTCC, Atlantic and Pacific TCC, and pro compact.
[url]www.nasaproracing.com[/url]
I am a NASA courseworker and track school student, and next year will most likely be an official. All of the events are run in an extremely organized, very safe environments, while staying relaxed and not too uptight. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree, NASA events are very well-organized. I've been going to their open track events since 1996. They are a lot of fun and are very safe. A lot of my friends race in NASA's different race series, and they are more than satisfied. Read the July 02 issue of Car and Driver, and check out what they have to say about NASA.
[B]There is an alternative to SCCA and that is NASA. National Auto Sport Association
Gary knows about NASA, as USTCC is a NASA series.
NASA has classes that mirror SCCA Improved Touring classes, as well as Spec Miata, Spec RX7, formula and spec racer series, as well as original series such as Honda Challenge, American Iron, USTCC, Atlantic and Pacific TCC, and pro compact.
[url]www.nasaproracing.com[/url]
I am a NASA courseworker and track school student, and next year will most likely be an official. All of the events are run in an extremely organized, very safe environments, while staying relaxed and not too uptight. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree, NASA events are very well-organized. I've been going to their open track events since 1996. They are a lot of fun and are very safe. A lot of my friends race in NASA's different race series, and they are more than satisfied. Read the July 02 issue of Car and Driver, and check out what they have to say about NASA.
| GarySheehan | 08-07-2002 01:04 PM |
Well, one big error is that the towtruck never should have been driving counter-race. In all my years as a Texas Turn Marshall and Racer Chaser (yeah baby), any vehicle that wanted to drive counter-race on a COLD track had to get permission from race control. Doing that in a race is obscene.
If the situation is that critical that a rescue vehicle needs to travel backwards, the corner should be yellow.
Also, the yellow should not be displayed for a slow moving vehicle or rescue vehicle that is underway on the track. The drivers of these vehicles know, or should know not to be on the racing line and the drivers should know that a white flag means that something slow is up ahead, so get ready. Overuse of yellow flags leads to drivers using less caution in yellow flag areas.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
If the situation is that critical that a rescue vehicle needs to travel backwards, the corner should be yellow.
Also, the yellow should not be displayed for a slow moving vehicle or rescue vehicle that is underway on the track. The drivers of these vehicles know, or should know not to be on the racing line and the drivers should know that a white flag means that something slow is up ahead, so get ready. Overuse of yellow flags leads to drivers using less caution in yellow flag areas.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
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