| RiftsWRX | 10-25-2001 02:55 PM |
WRX vs. VR6 for serious $$$
Here is a thought for any of you vdub folk...
I got a buddy of mine who just bet me $500 that he can beat me when I head up to the track Nov. 10th.
Here are a few facts:
Prior to him getting a new clutch and breaking his drive shafts he is running 13.5's
Now the question is, will the new 4 puck clutch and heavy duty drive shafts he had to buy (broke the stock ones) push him past 13.00?
Bear in mind he's running an intercooled turbo VR6 with limited slip and drag radials.
And prior to the clutch was doing 13.5's...
My car on the other hand (doesn't have up to date 1320 times) is pulling off sub 4.6 second 0-60's.... which seems to be putting me into an easy high 12, low 13 average.
Plus this weekend I'm off to TurboXS for the FORMAL tuning session (everything up to now was just guess work...) So that will only work to help me out...
So question is.... who thinks he has a chance?
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
I got a buddy of mine who just bet me $500 that he can beat me when I head up to the track Nov. 10th.
Here are a few facts:
Prior to him getting a new clutch and breaking his drive shafts he is running 13.5's
Now the question is, will the new 4 puck clutch and heavy duty drive shafts he had to buy (broke the stock ones) push him past 13.00?
Bear in mind he's running an intercooled turbo VR6 with limited slip and drag radials.
And prior to the clutch was doing 13.5's...
My car on the other hand (doesn't have up to date 1320 times) is pulling off sub 4.6 second 0-60's.... which seems to be putting me into an easy high 12, low 13 average.
Plus this weekend I'm off to TurboXS for the FORMAL tuning session (everything up to now was just guess work...) So that will only work to help me out...
So question is.... who thinks he has a chance?
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
| Akirasoft | 10-25-2001 03:05 PM |
I don think he has a chance against ya jorge. I just thought of something. We have to create a nickname for your wagon!! :D
| STiShawn | 10-26-2001 11:22 AM |
you'll beat him in the 8th mile, but he will walk right by you on the top end...
| mykrrrr | 10-27-2001 07:37 PM |
Jorge - Where is this gonna happen??? I wanna watch!!!
Please post something or PM me when it's gonna happen. :D
-myk
Please post something or PM me when it's gonna happen. :D
-myk
| 8Complex | 10-27-2001 09:11 PM |
Jorge - No clue, but I'm there. Hopefully with a running car as well... I think I'd even go to GLD for that one.
BTW, a harder clutch and race rubber = more spin, right? You should be in the clear if you're thinking you can hit low 13's/high 12's.
BTW, a harder clutch and race rubber = more spin, right? You should be in the clear if you're thinking you can hit low 13's/high 12's.
| RiftsWRX | 10-30-2001 02:32 PM |
I can't begin to say what a turbo'd VR6 is capable of (Golf Mark III) but he says he's putting out about 300 ft/lb's to the ground, is that right? And still only get mid 13's? Camaro SS's don't even put out 300 ft/lbs from the factory to the tires and they're running low 13's all day long.
Also, got back from TurboXS this weekend, and I'm putting out (at 60 degrees) 244 WHP, with almost 240 ft/lbs to the ground. 320-348 crank corrected HP, based on how you convert it.
Should be interesting. You local chicago guys will get a chance to see it this thursday. Also, the more the merrier that wanna come up, great!
EDIT: hehehe he told me he's putting out about 276HP which at a conservative 15% driveline loss is 234.6 HP :D hehehe
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
Also, got back from TurboXS this weekend, and I'm putting out (at 60 degrees) 244 WHP, with almost 240 ft/lbs to the ground. 320-348 crank corrected HP, based on how you convert it.
Should be interesting. You local chicago guys will get a chance to see it this thursday. Also, the more the merrier that wanna come up, great!
EDIT: hehehe he told me he's putting out about 276HP which at a conservative 15% driveline loss is 234.6 HP :D hehehe
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
| Imprezd | 10-30-2001 04:17 PM |
If he's a driver you have a problem if not.. he's gonna spin like a mad man....
should be cool to see what happens... VR6 are very potent engines but with a turbo... good god... he could do some damage...
Is he running full interior or semi gutted or what...
What he's running TurboXS boys got your back... even though mine is in the shop... still...
should be cool to see what happens... VR6 are very potent engines but with a turbo... good god... he could do some damage...
Is he running full interior or semi gutted or what...
What he's running TurboXS boys got your back... even though mine is in the shop... still...
| RiftsWRX | 10-30-2001 04:37 PM |
OK... I stand corrected... 270's to the wheels! :eek:
HEHEH... ok this should really get interesting. His best launch on drag radials were 2.0X 60FT's with his best trap ever being 110 MPH. With a best run of 13.5's.
This will actually be pretty close.
Hypothetically I should be doing around 105-109 MPH traps (using other similarly modified board members as a comparison), This will defineately be an issue for driver. If he can hook that thing up in 40 degree weather he should walk me. If he busts out with 2.0+ 60ft's, I should own him.
That's assuming trap for trap... and my 1.6-1.7 60fts.
I know the drive line losses are different, but heres an interesting hypothosis. Al with his car was doing 330HP on a dyno and busting out 12.7's. The tuners here believe that the magic number for driveline loss on the rex's is around 80HP.
Putting Al at around 250HP to the wheels. Al is a fat ass like me, so considering the fact that the wagon weighs a little more, and I haven't gutted it I am probobly 150 lbs of weight on him.
If every 100 lbs is good for around a 10th, then his 12.7's should be worst case 12.9's.
12.9 (in theory, though the type 1 times seem to want to confirm that....) vs. 13.5 one ever run with 13.9 consistent runs (mass 1st gear traction problem).... I know that GLD has been spraying VHT like crazy the last few weeks (conincidently that is when he broke his half shafts), so traction should be better for him.
This will be good either way. If he can hook that thing up he should be doing mid to high 12's.
EDIT: He's on a full interior BTW
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
HEHEH... ok this should really get interesting. His best launch on drag radials were 2.0X 60FT's with his best trap ever being 110 MPH. With a best run of 13.5's.
This will actually be pretty close.
Hypothetically I should be doing around 105-109 MPH traps (using other similarly modified board members as a comparison), This will defineately be an issue for driver. If he can hook that thing up in 40 degree weather he should walk me. If he busts out with 2.0+ 60ft's, I should own him.
That's assuming trap for trap... and my 1.6-1.7 60fts.
I know the drive line losses are different, but heres an interesting hypothosis. Al with his car was doing 330HP on a dyno and busting out 12.7's. The tuners here believe that the magic number for driveline loss on the rex's is around 80HP.
Putting Al at around 250HP to the wheels. Al is a fat ass like me, so considering the fact that the wagon weighs a little more, and I haven't gutted it I am probobly 150 lbs of weight on him.
If every 100 lbs is good for around a 10th, then his 12.7's should be worst case 12.9's.
12.9 (in theory, though the type 1 times seem to want to confirm that....) vs. 13.5 one ever run with 13.9 consistent runs (mass 1st gear traction problem).... I know that GLD has been spraying VHT like crazy the last few weeks (conincidently that is when he broke his half shafts), so traction should be better for him.
This will be good either way. If he can hook that thing up he should be doing mid to high 12's.
EDIT: He's on a full interior BTW
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
| Imprezd | 10-30-2001 04:49 PM |
dammit ... just kick his butt... you win.. you can get those injectors and then for sure you will be ahead of him..
| Verist | 10-31-2001 01:47 AM |
VR6 are hard to launch STOCK. He will get a great deal of wheel spin off the line. Does he have a LSD?
| Matey2 | 10-31-2001 10:39 AM |
he mentioned he was running LSD up there somewhere.
Sounds like it will be fun. take him on a race on a race track and i bet you would win probably with better exiting speed and whatnot and whathaveyou.
Sounds like it will be fun. take him on a race on a race track and i bet you would win probably with better exiting speed and whatnot and whathaveyou.
| JGard | 10-31-2001 10:49 AM |
you can't say drivetrain loss is a straight 80hp. It's a percentage more than anything.
either way, just hope he's not very good at launching, and you should have him :)
either way, just hope he's not very good at launching, and you should have him :)
| Thug | 10-31-2001 11:16 AM |
drivetrain loss is weird, it's not really a percentage or a fixed #. It's more like a percentage plus a fixed # or something to that effect. I dunno, the Techno Babble dude in SCC wrote about it and got me all confused like he always does.
| SoobATV | 11-01-2001 01:24 AM |
[QUOTE]Bear in mind he's running an intercooled turbo VR6 with limited slip and drag radials. [/QUOTE]
:eek: Sounds like he has a pretty good setup there... you'll CERTAINLY have him off the line, but I dunno what it's gonna be like towards the end of the track...
:eek: Sounds like he has a pretty good setup there... you'll CERTAINLY have him off the line, but I dunno what it's gonna be like towards the end of the track...
| Imprezd | 11-01-2001 07:05 AM |
Put it like this... if he hit's second gear and he's right next to you spinning ... that's your behind...
| Achilles38WRX | 11-01-2001 01:34 PM |
hey jorge, i wanna see this race too, at gld on the 10th.
talk to you tonight hopefully.
mark
talk to you tonight hopefully.
mark
| RallyNavvie | 11-02-2001 12:10 PM |
Here's a thought: why do FWD car owners keep trying to upgrade their cars to do better than AWD or RWD cars? I don't consider FWD cars "sports" cars. Reasoning:
[B]Point:[/B] For the purpose of this argument "sports car" will refer to a vehicle that is generally suited more for track days than daily driving, however can be used as either without any difficulties.
[B]Given:[/B] all drivers are of equal skill in the driveline of their choice.
[B]Constant:[/B] weight, tire size and compound, front-engine location, LSD on all drive axles, dry tarmac.
[B]Fact:[/B] FWD cars tend to understeer due to the drive tires and the steering tires being the same.
[B]Fact:[/B] FWD cars tend to slip on hard acceleration due to weight transfer off of the drive tires toward the rear of the car.
[B]Counterpoint:[/B] FWD cars do have quicker initial steering response during acceleration directly following deceleration.
[B]Fact:[/B] RWD cars tend to oversteer due to drive tires losing traction while steering tires remain relatively the same.
[B]Fact:[/B] Oversteer is generally a better position to be in than understeer.
[B]Fact:[/B] RWD cars accelerate well due to weight transfer to the rear.
[B]Fact:[/B] AWD cars tend to powerslide.
[B]Fact:[/B] AWD cars corner better due to constant reallocation of power to individual tires.
[B]Fact:[/B] AWD cars accelerate well due to lesser chance of slippage due to twice as many drive tires as FWD or RWD cars.
[B]Summation:[/B] FWD cars are not sports cars.
Sure I've seen some really powerful FWD cars, but they have to make up for so much just to run with the real sports cars. I don't see any FWD option on the Porsche, Ferrari, or TVR lineups the past few years. So no matter what happens at the track with the VW, just remember that he has to put more into his car than you do to make it a sportier vehicle.
(and now for all those FWD "sports car" owners I've offended, please feel free to make a [B]sound and logical[/B] argument to the statement above, I'd be glad to make it a better argument :D )
~G
[B]Point:[/B] For the purpose of this argument "sports car" will refer to a vehicle that is generally suited more for track days than daily driving, however can be used as either without any difficulties.
[B]Given:[/B] all drivers are of equal skill in the driveline of their choice.
[B]Constant:[/B] weight, tire size and compound, front-engine location, LSD on all drive axles, dry tarmac.
[B]Fact:[/B] FWD cars tend to understeer due to the drive tires and the steering tires being the same.
[B]Fact:[/B] FWD cars tend to slip on hard acceleration due to weight transfer off of the drive tires toward the rear of the car.
[B]Counterpoint:[/B] FWD cars do have quicker initial steering response during acceleration directly following deceleration.
[B]Fact:[/B] RWD cars tend to oversteer due to drive tires losing traction while steering tires remain relatively the same.
[B]Fact:[/B] Oversteer is generally a better position to be in than understeer.
[B]Fact:[/B] RWD cars accelerate well due to weight transfer to the rear.
[B]Fact:[/B] AWD cars tend to powerslide.
[B]Fact:[/B] AWD cars corner better due to constant reallocation of power to individual tires.
[B]Fact:[/B] AWD cars accelerate well due to lesser chance of slippage due to twice as many drive tires as FWD or RWD cars.
[B]Summation:[/B] FWD cars are not sports cars.
Sure I've seen some really powerful FWD cars, but they have to make up for so much just to run with the real sports cars. I don't see any FWD option on the Porsche, Ferrari, or TVR lineups the past few years. So no matter what happens at the track with the VW, just remember that he has to put more into his car than you do to make it a sportier vehicle.
(and now for all those FWD "sports car" owners I've offended, please feel free to make a [B]sound and logical[/B] argument to the statement above, I'd be glad to make it a better argument :D )
~G
| Thug | 11-02-2001 03:08 PM |
OK, so you rally, you'll know this. In rally, what type of cars generally have faster times, FWD or RWD? :)
I agree with you, just being argumentative.
I agree with you, just being argumentative.
| RallyNavvie | 11-02-2001 03:44 PM |
Well, Ohtake beat out that Mustang by about 3 seconds at LSPR this year with his Escort. :rolleyes:
I do think that the wide use of FWD cars in ClubRally has led to more support and use for them rather than RWD cars. As far as WRC goes I haven't yet seen any of the FWD cars beat the old Lancia Stratos or RWD Escort times. Now the experiment to your statement would be two equally competent drivers in their cars, equally tuned for their drivetrain running the same stages several times. I'd actually be interested in the results. However, and I don't mean any disrespect to the FWD rally drivers out there who could beat my butt anyday on dirt, I think FWD rally cars are slightly easier to master.
Oh, and should I mention Jardevall(sp)? :D
~G
I do think that the wide use of FWD cars in ClubRally has led to more support and use for them rather than RWD cars. As far as WRC goes I haven't yet seen any of the FWD cars beat the old Lancia Stratos or RWD Escort times. Now the experiment to your statement would be two equally competent drivers in their cars, equally tuned for their drivetrain running the same stages several times. I'd actually be interested in the results. However, and I don't mean any disrespect to the FWD rally drivers out there who could beat my butt anyday on dirt, I think FWD rally cars are slightly easier to master.
Oh, and should I mention Jardevall(sp)? :D
~G
| Thug | 11-03-2001 03:28 PM |
A FWD vs RWD contest in rally with the same driver would be rad, but it's somewhat impossible. Cuz guys who are driving FWD are used to it and the same with RWD. It would be hard to find someone who has good experience in both. WOuld be damn cool though
| Achilles38WRX | 11-05-2001 01:22 PM |
hey jorge, is this a pic of your competetion on the dyno???
[IMG]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/3efb5baa/bc/Yellow+vw+vr6+turbo.jpg?bcU0t57AV4q6YIw_[/IMG]
[IMG]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/3efb5baa/bc/Yellow+vw+vr6+turbo.jpg?bcU0t57AV4q6YIw_[/IMG]
| M2 PERFORMANCE | 11-05-2001 08:18 PM |
VR6 power
The WRX should be able to take the VR6 but I have seen some pretty quick VW's - this one does not even have a turbo!!!
[url]www.turn2usa.com[/url] [URL=http://www.turn2usa.com]
Jason:eek:
[url]www.turn2usa.com[/url] [URL=http://www.turn2usa.com]
Jason:eek:
| orbit03 | 11-06-2001 10:20 AM |
Somebody better be there with a video camera so we can all check out the race. :)
| TypeC | 11-06-2001 10:44 AM |
Jorge,
you should just go to the track early and find out what you run, instead of guessing and using BS G-tech times. Truth is, you don't know. I'd really like to see how fast your auto is.
-C
you should just go to the track early and find out what you run, instead of guessing and using BS G-tech times. Truth is, you don't know. I'd really like to see how fast your auto is.
-C
| RiftsWRX | 11-06-2001 10:46 AM |
HEHEHEHE, yeah. I'm getting confident. Car is running like a champ! Judging from the response I'm getting here, I'm really thinking he's going to have a problem hooking that thing up.
If he starts to hop then I know he'll be hurting.
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
If he starts to hop then I know he'll be hurting.
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
| climbingcue | 11-06-2001 11:31 AM |
If the guy with the VR6 can drive it should be a good race..... But to keep it close he will have to run 2.0 60ft time or better.... 13.5 for a turbo vr6 is not a very good time..... How much boost is he running?
I wish I was closer so I could see this race.....
I wish I was closer so I could see this race.....
| RiftsWRX | 11-06-2001 12:11 PM |
I wanna say like 7PSI or 9PSI... don't remember for sure which.
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
| RiftsWRX | 11-07-2001 04:32 PM |
well it looks like we'll never know how this ended up...
A: I guess he blew up his transmission and he's using his friends... who needs it back friday... (so he's transless)
B: I guess he wants to sell his car now over the winter, so I won't get a chance to race him come next season ;P
heheheh I told him to tell his friend to wait one more day.... we'll see...
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
A: I guess he blew up his transmission and he's using his friends... who needs it back friday... (so he's transless)
B: I guess he wants to sell his car now over the winter, so I won't get a chance to race him come next season ;P
heheheh I told him to tell his friend to wait one more day.... we'll see...
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url]
| DoctorNick | 11-08-2001 03:17 PM |
hahaha, he just had to blow his tranny
| TypeC | 11-08-2001 03:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RiftsWRX [/i]
[B]well it looks like we'll never know how this ended up...
A: I guess he blew up his transmission and he's using his friends... who needs it back friday... (so he's transless)
B: I guess he wants to sell his car now over the winter, so I won't get a chance to race him come next season ;P
heheheh I told him to tell his friend to wait one more day.... we'll see...
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
that's why I didn't boost my GSR. All reliablilty goes to $hit (although the Honda trannies are good for 9 second passes all day). Just to make the guy feel bad, you need to do burnouts in front of his house!!! hahaha!
[B]well it looks like we'll never know how this ended up...
A: I guess he blew up his transmission and he's using his friends... who needs it back friday... (so he's transless)
B: I guess he wants to sell his car now over the winter, so I won't get a chance to race him come next season ;P
heheheh I told him to tell his friend to wait one more day.... we'll see...
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
[url]www.ProjectWRX.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
that's why I didn't boost my GSR. All reliablilty goes to $hit (although the Honda trannies are good for 9 second passes all day). Just to make the guy feel bad, you need to do burnouts in front of his house!!! hahaha!
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