| trhoppe | 06-22-2002 12:58 AM |
STX engine and suspension setup questions
Well, I have been having second thoughts lately about what to do with my car. What else is new.
Anyways, I realized that I will have spent almost $3000 on tires this year to be nationally competitive in DS. 10 hoosiers and 8 kumhos. I can spend $500 on two sets of azenis and have them last me all year!
With me wanting to do a lot more track events next year, as well as OLOA, I was thinking that I might as well mod the crap out of the car and play in STX. Hopefully enough people will show up in STX at nationals to make it a real class next year. Plus the PAX will let me still be competitive in the local and regional PRO class. Last but not least, the STX legal WRX will be lotsa fun at time trials.
Well here is my planned list of mods. Need some advice from some suspension gurus to see if this is about all I would need.
---Suspension---
Whiteline 23-26 front bar (already have)
Whiteline 23-26 rear bar
DMS 40s tarmac valving 350lb springs all around
Cucso Front camber plates around -3 camber
Move front bolts to rear to get around -2 camber
STi rear tophats
Front and Rear STBs
---Exhaust---
Godspeed catless uppipe
TurboXS downpipe with high flow cat
3" straight pipe no muffler after high flow cat
oh boy that will be loud :)
---Engine---
Power Pulleys
Cold Air intake
Unichip w/o boost module
Estimate ~220whp with this setup
might as well throw in a clutch
Looks like ~ a $5000 budget including a set of 215/45/16 Azenis for one of my 3 sets of spare wheels :lol:
Any comments/flames/suggestions??
Thanks
-Tom
DS#5 for now!
Anyways, I realized that I will have spent almost $3000 on tires this year to be nationally competitive in DS. 10 hoosiers and 8 kumhos. I can spend $500 on two sets of azenis and have them last me all year!
With me wanting to do a lot more track events next year, as well as OLOA, I was thinking that I might as well mod the crap out of the car and play in STX. Hopefully enough people will show up in STX at nationals to make it a real class next year. Plus the PAX will let me still be competitive in the local and regional PRO class. Last but not least, the STX legal WRX will be lotsa fun at time trials.
Well here is my planned list of mods. Need some advice from some suspension gurus to see if this is about all I would need.
---Suspension---
Whiteline 23-26 front bar (already have)
Whiteline 23-26 rear bar
DMS 40s tarmac valving 350lb springs all around
Cucso Front camber plates around -3 camber
Move front bolts to rear to get around -2 camber
STi rear tophats
Front and Rear STBs
---Exhaust---
Godspeed catless uppipe
TurboXS downpipe with high flow cat
3" straight pipe no muffler after high flow cat
oh boy that will be loud :)
---Engine---
Power Pulleys
Cold Air intake
Unichip w/o boost module
Estimate ~220whp with this setup
might as well throw in a clutch
Looks like ~ a $5000 budget including a set of 215/45/16 Azenis for one of my 3 sets of spare wheels :lol:
Any comments/flames/suggestions??
Thanks
-Tom
DS#5 for now!
| AWMIII | 06-22-2002 03:16 PM |
Tom is coming over to the darkside!
1 I think the whiteline rear bar is 20-24.
2 I know this is gointg to draw out soem opinions, but don't get the dms.
3 I am not sure that moving the front camber bolts to the rear is stx legal. I know this might be nitpicky, but you do run nationally.
4 STBs are not needed and would just add weight to your skinny car.
5 Get a stromung catless downpipe and put the highflow cat in the midpipe.
6 Don't put on pullies. They are not legal at this point and have been the source of weird (x files type) problems on the wrxes
7 Go afc instead of unichip. This will prevent the weenies from protesting you and forcing you to prove that it does not alter boost.
8 brake pads or a whole brake upgrade.
9 Tein camber plates can be had for much less than the cuscos.
10 extra 1-3 k laying around for tranny repairs. They are bound to be needed.
11 Cone defence controller. replaces bumped cones before the course workers can get to them.
2 I know this is gointg to draw out soem opinions, but don't get the dms.
3 I am not sure that moving the front camber bolts to the rear is stx legal. I know this might be nitpicky, but you do run nationally.
4 STBs are not needed and would just add weight to your skinny car.
5 Get a stromung catless downpipe and put the highflow cat in the midpipe.
6 Don't put on pullies. They are not legal at this point and have been the source of weird (x files type) problems on the wrxes
7 Go afc instead of unichip. This will prevent the weenies from protesting you and forcing you to prove that it does not alter boost.
8 brake pads or a whole brake upgrade.
9 Tein camber plates can be had for much less than the cuscos.
10 extra 1-3 k laying around for tranny repairs. They are bound to be needed.
11 Cone defence controller. replaces bumped cones before the course workers can get to them.
| ChrisW | 06-22-2002 04:55 PM |
With the camber your running, I don't think the stock rims will fit, even with the 215's
As for the DMS, so far so good, I have managed to maintain 3rd in the regional autox with nothing but suspension and alignment.
I think your planning too much negative camber. The only time you will have grip is in the corners when your off boost.
Your exhaust may be too loud. At the event I compete at we have sound limits. even on the open track days.
As for the DMS, so far so good, I have managed to maintain 3rd in the regional autox with nothing but suspension and alignment.
I think your planning too much negative camber. The only time you will have grip is in the corners when your off boost.
Your exhaust may be too loud. At the event I compete at we have sound limits. even on the open track days.
| trhoppe | 06-22-2002 09:52 PM |
1) Whiteline sells 8 different sway bars now for the WRX :devil:
2) can I get your opinion why not??
3) hmm I figured since camber is adjustable all the way around, I can do whatever. Might have to just leave -1.5 in the rear.
4) Figured as much, just wanted an opinion :)
5) About the dp, that sounds like a better idea, i did not know that was STX legal.
6) thanks for the tip
7) I was considering that, but I could care less if Im protested as long as I KNOW am legal. It was WAY too much fun being protested in Ft. myers and proving the guy wrong :devil:
8) As far as brakes, I forgot to mention I have Porterfield R4S for now and the 4 pots will be going on along with a brake proportioning valve!
9) again, thanks for the tip!
10) My car has a bunch of warranty still. Plan A is to undo the mods and take it into the dealership, Im keeping all the stock parts. Plan B is to keep $3000 on a credit card free for a new tranny :)
11) where in the hell do I get one of those. If I had one NOW I would be DS legal too! I could win!......easily!
As far as the exhaust being too loud. AFAIK the limit is 95db everywhere. The ASP ZO6 with a full exhaust with no mufflers meets 95 dbs :) I think mine should be ok, maybe, maybe not.
If i remember correctly, gary's WRX with no cats and one muffler meets 95 dbs just fine, but had a hard time with 90. 95 is a LOT louder then 90 though.
[QUOTE]I think your planning too much negative camber. The only time you will have grip is in the corners when your off boost. [/QUOTE] Hehe, why would you need grip anywhere else? :lol:
Seriously though, I think 3 might be a bit extreme. -2.5 and -1.5 seems a little more right. Thats just my opinion now after running -1.5 on the front. Thats with stock springs though and konis. Im sure after coilovers its a different world and I will have to relearn WRX setup.
Thanks for the tips guys.
-Tom
2) can I get your opinion why not??
3) hmm I figured since camber is adjustable all the way around, I can do whatever. Might have to just leave -1.5 in the rear.
4) Figured as much, just wanted an opinion :)
5) About the dp, that sounds like a better idea, i did not know that was STX legal.
6) thanks for the tip
7) I was considering that, but I could care less if Im protested as long as I KNOW am legal. It was WAY too much fun being protested in Ft. myers and proving the guy wrong :devil:
8) As far as brakes, I forgot to mention I have Porterfield R4S for now and the 4 pots will be going on along with a brake proportioning valve!
9) again, thanks for the tip!
10) My car has a bunch of warranty still. Plan A is to undo the mods and take it into the dealership, Im keeping all the stock parts. Plan B is to keep $3000 on a credit card free for a new tranny :)
11) where in the hell do I get one of those. If I had one NOW I would be DS legal too! I could win!......easily!
As far as the exhaust being too loud. AFAIK the limit is 95db everywhere. The ASP ZO6 with a full exhaust with no mufflers meets 95 dbs :) I think mine should be ok, maybe, maybe not.
If i remember correctly, gary's WRX with no cats and one muffler meets 95 dbs just fine, but had a hard time with 90. 95 is a LOT louder then 90 though.
[QUOTE]I think your planning too much negative camber. The only time you will have grip is in the corners when your off boost. [/QUOTE] Hehe, why would you need grip anywhere else? :lol:
Seriously though, I think 3 might be a bit extreme. -2.5 and -1.5 seems a little more right. Thats just my opinion now after running -1.5 on the front. Thats with stock springs though and konis. Im sure after coilovers its a different world and I will have to relearn WRX setup.
Thanks for the tips guys.
-Tom
| Corey | 06-22-2002 09:53 PM |
Re: Tom is coming over to the darkside!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AWMIII [/i]
[B]
3 I am not sure that moving the front camber bolts to the rear is stx legal. I know this might be nitpicky, but you do run nationally.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. It won't work, the top front hole is different than the ones in the back.
Corey #89 SM
[B]
3 I am not sure that moving the front camber bolts to the rear is stx legal. I know this might be nitpicky, but you do run nationally.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. It won't work, the top front hole is different than the ones in the back.
Corey #89 SM
| z3coupe | 06-23-2002 05:41 AM |
[QUOTE]5 Get a stromung catless downpipe and put the highflow cat in the midpipe[/QUOTE]
Or wait a bit? I am working with Ian at PDE to make an STX legal D/P
[QUOTE]3" straight pipe no muffler after high flow cat [/QUOTE]
WHY not try a Supertrapp???? That is what I have been using for years, and its always worked for me (and many others too). Plus the facts that it is adjustable (for noise as well as power curve), lightweight (only about 5lbs), and is CHEAP (around $130).
Or wait a bit? I am working with Ian at PDE to make an STX legal D/P
[QUOTE]3" straight pipe no muffler after high flow cat [/QUOTE]
WHY not try a Supertrapp???? That is what I have been using for years, and its always worked for me (and many others too). Plus the facts that it is adjustable (for noise as well as power curve), lightweight (only about 5lbs), and is CHEAP (around $130).
| shifterkartracer | 06-27-2002 09:58 AM |
I'm not sure what you mean by a STX legal DP. As long as you retain a cat in the mid-pipe (where I think you would rather place it) you would be legal in STX. Can you expand on this a bit?
I think you have a pretty good plan for building a competitive STX car. Giid luck and hopefully they will haqve STX at nationals next year. You never know, maybe I'll see you there. :)
I think you have a pretty good plan for building a competitive STX car. Giid luck and hopefully they will haqve STX at nationals next year. You never know, maybe I'll see you there. :)
| Orion | 06-27-2002 10:54 AM |
I'm getting ready to set my car up for STX as well, but I'll have to take a few things back off it. Houston region has so many ST competitors that we have 7 different subsets instead of STS and STX. I currently run in STU, U being Unlimited. I get killed in the PAX, it's 0.836 compared to SM's 0.834. R Compound is not allowed so the Azenis or S-03 is the tire of choice (KD's are ridiculously expensive in comparison).
Through 5 events (we have the luxury of one event a month all yea long!) I'm leading the STU points. I've won the last 2 events & have (2) 2nd's and (1) 3rd.
Here's what I have on the car and what I plan to change:
[b]Engine[/b]
Current mods:
TurboXS Stage 1 Unichip and ABC - will be taking off & selling
GFB BOV - same as the Stage 1
Samco IC hoses - see 1st 2 items
Future mods:
4-2-1 equal length header and up-pipe.
[b]Exhaust[/b]
Current:
completely stock except for TurboXS muffler section (incl. w/ Stage 1)
Future:
iON (Brullen) Turbo-back 3" all the way through including muffler
[b]Suspension[/b]
Current mods:
MRT 30 mm springs
MRT Front & rear strut braces
Whiteline 20-22-24 adj rear sway
Kartboy solid droplinks
Future mods:
Koni inserts
Cusco front camber plates
STi rear tophats
Cusco front sway or Hotchkis fr. & rear sway set
[b]Brakes[/b]
Current Mods:
Goodridge SS lines
Motul RBF 600 fluid
Future mods:
factory replacement pads front
aftermarket rear pads for more bite
[b]Wheels/Tires[/b]
Current:
Rota SubZeros
Falken Azenis 225/45-17
Future:
no change planned.
I have no idea how competitive I'd be at a National level, but I feel pretty confident that at a regional or divisional level I'll be right up there.
Through 5 events (we have the luxury of one event a month all yea long!) I'm leading the STU points. I've won the last 2 events & have (2) 2nd's and (1) 3rd.
Here's what I have on the car and what I plan to change:
[b]Engine[/b]
Current mods:
TurboXS Stage 1 Unichip and ABC - will be taking off & selling
GFB BOV - same as the Stage 1
Samco IC hoses - see 1st 2 items
Future mods:
4-2-1 equal length header and up-pipe.
[b]Exhaust[/b]
Current:
completely stock except for TurboXS muffler section (incl. w/ Stage 1)
Future:
iON (Brullen) Turbo-back 3" all the way through including muffler
[b]Suspension[/b]
Current mods:
MRT 30 mm springs
MRT Front & rear strut braces
Whiteline 20-22-24 adj rear sway
Kartboy solid droplinks
Future mods:
Koni inserts
Cusco front camber plates
STi rear tophats
Cusco front sway or Hotchkis fr. & rear sway set
[b]Brakes[/b]
Current Mods:
Goodridge SS lines
Motul RBF 600 fluid
Future mods:
factory replacement pads front
aftermarket rear pads for more bite
[b]Wheels/Tires[/b]
Current:
Rota SubZeros
Falken Azenis 225/45-17
Future:
no change planned.
I have no idea how competitive I'd be at a National level, but I feel pretty confident that at a regional or divisional level I'll be right up there.
| Dussander | 06-27-2002 11:22 AM |
Funny, I'm planning on doing the same thing in the near future. Since my rear Koni's are blown I won't have them back for a while so I can't be all that competitive this year in DS. (I STILL do not have my front anti-sway bar!)
My options are about the same as what Tom posted but I wanted to try the Tein RAs. I will probably use my SSR Comps for AutoX and buy some Subzeros for the street.
Oh, and I plan on adding a roll bar because I'm paranoid for track. :)
I'm also leaning toward some Stoptech brakes someday down the road.
My options are about the same as what Tom posted but I wanted to try the Tein RAs. I will probably use my SSR Comps for AutoX and buy some Subzeros for the street.
Oh, and I plan on adding a roll bar because I'm paranoid for track. :)
I'm also leaning toward some Stoptech brakes someday down the road.
| Jaxx | 06-27-2002 11:48 AM |
yes chaning the crank pully is technically illegal but replacing the others pullies not illegal
brakes brakes brakes
at least lines and pads
perhaps 4 pot willwood kit that perin has been offering
camber bolts to the back.. this didn't work with the rs with out drilling...
not sure about wrx
austin has been playing with camber settings on his car .. he is running some wild negitive numbers... with street tires .. i suspect more is better
on top hats
get MRT as they allow for caster ... they are the only ones that do.. it will make a noticable diff in turn in.. also talk to dave (dms) befor you order as the shaft on dms struts is larger so it may not fit the struts.. there is a guy in montanta that is running sts w/ dms 50s tarmac
if you are going to go that big on your sway bar .. get the HD sway bar mounting and end links front and rear
unichip over AFC
timing is almost more important than a/f
or if your are daring greddy e-manage
perhaps lighter wider wheels, ssr comps perhaps
and yes 215/46/16 will fit..
brakes brakes brakes
at least lines and pads
perhaps 4 pot willwood kit that perin has been offering
camber bolts to the back.. this didn't work with the rs with out drilling...
not sure about wrx
austin has been playing with camber settings on his car .. he is running some wild negitive numbers... with street tires .. i suspect more is better
on top hats
get MRT as they allow for caster ... they are the only ones that do.. it will make a noticable diff in turn in.. also talk to dave (dms) befor you order as the shaft on dms struts is larger so it may not fit the struts.. there is a guy in montanta that is running sts w/ dms 50s tarmac
if you are going to go that big on your sway bar .. get the HD sway bar mounting and end links front and rear
unichip over AFC
timing is almost more important than a/f
or if your are daring greddy e-manage
perhaps lighter wider wheels, ssr comps perhaps
and yes 215/46/16 will fit..
| OldRacer | 06-27-2002 11:48 AM |
Just a couple quick comments/thoughts-
1) The Unichip w/o boost module a) made a VERY noticable improvement, b)is very easy to document as compliant- boost controling module is a physically separate piece, and I have a detailed receipt from the installer stating its w/o boost mod, A/F & timing only. Among other advantages, allows you to re-tune to optimize to exhaust mods (if you do that later).
2) I'm finding on relatively tight courses that up to -3 degrees F camber really works (got Cusco plates)
3) having run the S0-3s the first part of the season, and switched last week to the Azenis, I think (w/ only a driver's school and one event to go on) that the Azenis work better, for less $$.
At this point I'm running Cusco 21mm FSwBar, 22-24mm (@24) RSwBar, F camb plates (run at -2.5 to -3.1, depending), Kartboy rear links, front bushings, Unichip/K&N/intake silencer box gone/SPT cat-back, SPT short-throw shifter, Cusco RSB. SS brake lines, Cobb pads. I've got STi pink springs, and Grp N rear top mounts sitting in the garage waiting on Cobb/Koni single adj struts....and waiting, and waiting...... but that's another story...
At this point, planning on finishing the season w/ suspension work only, do something about exhaust over the winter.
Currently sitting on top of regional STX; last time out faster than the DS WRXs, about a second slower than STS winner...
Len
1) The Unichip w/o boost module a) made a VERY noticable improvement, b)is very easy to document as compliant- boost controling module is a physically separate piece, and I have a detailed receipt from the installer stating its w/o boost mod, A/F & timing only. Among other advantages, allows you to re-tune to optimize to exhaust mods (if you do that later).
2) I'm finding on relatively tight courses that up to -3 degrees F camber really works (got Cusco plates)
3) having run the S0-3s the first part of the season, and switched last week to the Azenis, I think (w/ only a driver's school and one event to go on) that the Azenis work better, for less $$.
At this point I'm running Cusco 21mm FSwBar, 22-24mm (@24) RSwBar, F camb plates (run at -2.5 to -3.1, depending), Kartboy rear links, front bushings, Unichip/K&N/intake silencer box gone/SPT cat-back, SPT short-throw shifter, Cusco RSB. SS brake lines, Cobb pads. I've got STi pink springs, and Grp N rear top mounts sitting in the garage waiting on Cobb/Koni single adj struts....and waiting, and waiting...... but that's another story...
At this point, planning on finishing the season w/ suspension work only, do something about exhaust over the winter.
Currently sitting on top of regional STX; last time out faster than the DS WRXs, about a second slower than STS winner...
Len
| trhoppe | 06-27-2002 12:07 PM |
Thanks for all the info guys!
I decided on the Tein RAs myself. They come with the camber plates, seem to be a "matched" package, and are not a bad price once you take into account the 45mm inverted design WITH camber plates and rear pillowball mounts.
Who was the STS winner? At the national level DS runs about 1 to 2 secs ahead of STS on a 60 sec course. I have been able to beat Richard West and Erik on raw time by a sec or so, and get nicked on PAX by them most of the time.
I can't wait to get some sponsors lined up and set the car up right after the national championship this year. That way I can still get a few autoxes in on the new STX setup before winter time.
215/45/16s for the first season and then maybe switch to 225/45/17. Maybe I can talk Rota into a sponsorship! :devil:
-Tom
I decided on the Tein RAs myself. They come with the camber plates, seem to be a "matched" package, and are not a bad price once you take into account the 45mm inverted design WITH camber plates and rear pillowball mounts.
Who was the STS winner? At the national level DS runs about 1 to 2 secs ahead of STS on a 60 sec course. I have been able to beat Richard West and Erik on raw time by a sec or so, and get nicked on PAX by them most of the time.
I can't wait to get some sponsors lined up and set the car up right after the national championship this year. That way I can still get a few autoxes in on the new STX setup before winter time.
215/45/16s for the first season and then maybe switch to 225/45/17. Maybe I can talk Rota into a sponsorship! :devil:
-Tom
| Orion | 06-27-2002 12:10 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]Maybe I can talk Rota into a sponsorship! :devil:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
You can try, but that won't go far. They were looking to sponsor people in THIS forum earlier this year, but never followed through. (Maybe they are just ignoring a select few of us. :rolleyes: ) No replies on the last 3-4 emails I've sent.:(
[B]Maybe I can talk Rota into a sponsorship! :devil:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
You can try, but that won't go far. They were looking to sponsor people in THIS forum earlier this year, but never followed through. (Maybe they are just ignoring a select few of us. :rolleyes: ) No replies on the last 3-4 emails I've sent.:(
| trhoppe | 06-27-2002 12:24 PM |
I know a little secret about that ;)
I will let people know if my sponsorship works out. Im a bad person..........:devil:
-Tom
I will let people know if my sponsorship works out. Im a bad person..........:devil:
-Tom
| TheWRX | 06-27-2002 12:32 PM |
Re: STX engine and suspension setup questions
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]might as well throw in a clutch[/B][/QUOTE]
Not in STX, a clutch upgrade puts you in ESP.
Do you really think that you need swaybars this large if you have a much stiffer suspension? I would hope that springs much stiffer than stock would help to keep body roll down enough so that much bigger swaybars wouldn't be necessary. Also, you might not need that much negative camber because you'll have much less body roll.
[B]might as well throw in a clutch[/B][/QUOTE]
Not in STX, a clutch upgrade puts you in ESP.
Do you really think that you need swaybars this large if you have a much stiffer suspension? I would hope that springs much stiffer than stock would help to keep body roll down enough so that much bigger swaybars wouldn't be necessary. Also, you might not need that much negative camber because you'll have much less body roll.
| trhoppe | 06-27-2002 12:58 PM |
The reason I wanted the thick swaybars is for on track racing. I will be setting them at the 23mm front and 24mm rear while autoxing and the higher settings when road racing. Then again, I might not need that much bar, but I guess I will find that out once I actually run the car. I might be able to get away with a softer spring and a thicker bar though.....
Ok, I guess I might just throw in another stock clutch disk and reuse the pressure plate then.. :lol:
-Tom
Ok, I guess I might just throw in another stock clutch disk and reuse the pressure plate then.. :lol:
-Tom
| OldRacer | 06-27-2002 02:38 PM |
Tom-
STS winner was Gary Phillis; typically runs in top 5 in STS; 51.2 to my 52.2. He runs a '95 Nissan 200 SX SE-R. 1st thru 4th in STS were faster than me (a Civic, a Neon, and a GS-R). First Suby was an '00 RS at 53.0 (6th).
DS winner (Lexus IS300) at 49.1, BMW 330 ci at 49.2, ditto at 49.8, Audi S4 at 50.1; 1st WRX at high 53s.
Most of the course was pretty fast and open; couple tight turns, and a short slalom.
Len
STS winner was Gary Phillis; typically runs in top 5 in STS; 51.2 to my 52.2. He runs a '95 Nissan 200 SX SE-R. 1st thru 4th in STS were faster than me (a Civic, a Neon, and a GS-R). First Suby was an '00 RS at 53.0 (6th).
DS winner (Lexus IS300) at 49.1, BMW 330 ci at 49.2, ditto at 49.8, Audi S4 at 50.1; 1st WRX at high 53s.
Most of the course was pretty fast and open; couple tight turns, and a short slalom.
Len
| 2QUICK4U | 06-27-2002 04:26 PM |
Oldracer,
I've got a question for you about the boost control, module on the Unichip:
[QUOTE]boost controling module is a physically separate piece, [/QUOTE]
is that part of the plug-n-play harness, or are you talking about the ABC they provide. I'm wondering because if I bought the unichip it would be nice to have the boost control, and then be able to take it off for AutoX.
I've got a question for you about the boost control, module on the Unichip:
[QUOTE]boost controling module is a physically separate piece, [/QUOTE]
is that part of the plug-n-play harness, or are you talking about the ABC they provide. I'm wondering because if I bought the unichip it would be nice to have the boost control, and then be able to take it off for AutoX.
| OldRacer | 06-27-2002 05:30 PM |
2Quick-
That comment is based on what Christian at Modern Garage in Salt Lake explained to me at the time he installed mine. Christian is an authorized Cobb installer. He said the boost control module was a separate piece/set of chip(s) from the main Unichip box. Mine is hard-wired in, vs "plug 'n play". Don't believe Cobb has a PnP harness available yet. I could be wrong, but I think, at least w/ the Cobb setup, the boost control is either there, or not there, and switching back and forth is not an option. I also think, but am not sure that if you had the BCM, the Unichip mapping would be based on it being there, so if it went away, the Unichip would need re-mapping. I'm sure either josh at Cobb, or Christian at Modern could tell you for sure. I understand physical systems/components pretty well, but am struggling to understand the details of electronic engine controls.
Len
That comment is based on what Christian at Modern Garage in Salt Lake explained to me at the time he installed mine. Christian is an authorized Cobb installer. He said the boost control module was a separate piece/set of chip(s) from the main Unichip box. Mine is hard-wired in, vs "plug 'n play". Don't believe Cobb has a PnP harness available yet. I could be wrong, but I think, at least w/ the Cobb setup, the boost control is either there, or not there, and switching back and forth is not an option. I also think, but am not sure that if you had the BCM, the Unichip mapping would be based on it being there, so if it went away, the Unichip would need re-mapping. I'm sure either josh at Cobb, or Christian at Modern could tell you for sure. I understand physical systems/components pretty well, but am struggling to understand the details of electronic engine controls.
Len
| 2QUICK4U | 06-27-2002 05:36 PM |
Thanks for the response Oldracer, I told really understand it all either. I'm more worried about the proper suspension setup right now anyway. I think my car with the uppipe, and MRT turboback has enough power to be competitive. I sure wish we could upgrade the TMIC in STX though.:rolleyes:
| TheWRX | 06-27-2002 05:43 PM |
Unichip
OldRacer, that makes sense about the Unichip setup. I'm fairly sure that you would want different maps with or without boost control. Because I believe that it's not possible for a user to load maps, or switch between two different maps, it doesn't seem practical to use boost control during normal driving, and rip out the BCU for autocross events.
Not meaning to hijack Tom's thread, but would you mind sharing some of your experience with this BCU-less Unichip? I don't remember reading much about it. Was your setup dyno-tuned? How much power did you gain? Subjective impressions of the gains? Any problems with the setup?
Not meaning to hijack Tom's thread, but would you mind sharing some of your experience with this BCU-less Unichip? I don't remember reading much about it. Was your setup dyno-tuned? How much power did you gain? Subjective impressions of the gains? Any problems with the setup?
| trhoppe | 06-27-2002 05:45 PM |
[QUOTE]Not meaning to hijack Tom's thread[/QUOTE] By all means share that info if you want, it wouldnt be hijacking since it has a lot do with what my questions were :)
| OldRacer | 06-27-2002 06:28 PM |
Why, sure, guys, glad to share.
There's an old thread "Unichip w/o boost control", I think that tracks how I got to it, and includes a few other folk's experiences w/ a similar setup (including at least one guy that had it done at Cobb, and dyno'd). It started w/ my frustration that initial info from Cobb seemed to be "we only sell the Unichip w/ an APS system..." What we had was a failure to communicate. Once I got hooked up w/ Christian at Modern Garage everything was cool. Clearly, in the process of becoming an auth'd Cobb installer, he'd spent a lot of time, w/ a lot of different WRX setups, on the dyno.
However, Modern didn't have a dyno operating at the time they did mine. Was done w/ lots of instrumentation attached. Christian had data/maps for/from a lot of different configuataions, e.g. 3 or 4 different cat-back systems, but didn't have one specifically for my SPT unit + K & N, so got close, and tuned (w/ lots of test drives) from there. He explained that actual power gains, from what he/Cobb had seen on dyno varied; a bit from car-to-car, and more depending on other mods (like specific exhaust). The guestimate was at least 25 HP, maybe a touch more, so, let's say in the 10% range. They also did some fine adjustments to BOV linkage, etc, to make boost was fully up to stock spec. Christian's take on was I leaving anything on the table by not actually tuning on a dyno was "very little, if any- there's enough dyno experience behind the maps/data that I can hit things really close." Now, as the seller, what else would you expect him to say, BUT, I found him extremely knowledgeable, straight shooter, etc. I believe him.
The result was....very obvious, and very nice. Useable power appears a few hundred RPM lower. What is really noticable is how the torque curve has flattened out from 4-7K; it pulls strong and steady all the way to redline. Speaking of redline, one of the thing he did was replace stock ECU programming for fuel cutoff at 7200 w/ ignition cut at 7100.
Haven't put a watch on it, but I think 0-60's down close to 1/2 a second. Street fuel mileage has noticably improved.
I have had zero problems; 7 autocrosses, a driver's school, 4K street miles. Not cheap, particularly w/ the drive to SLC, hotel for a nite, but nice, and what I was looking for- a reasonable boost in power w/o inviting reliability issues. This season is suspension development for me, too. This winter, exhaust, and re-tuning the chip to the exhaust. That's a key plus- w/ re-mapping, the ability to get more from an exhaust mod than you'd get w/ a stocj=k ECU alone.
Len
There's an old thread "Unichip w/o boost control", I think that tracks how I got to it, and includes a few other folk's experiences w/ a similar setup (including at least one guy that had it done at Cobb, and dyno'd). It started w/ my frustration that initial info from Cobb seemed to be "we only sell the Unichip w/ an APS system..." What we had was a failure to communicate. Once I got hooked up w/ Christian at Modern Garage everything was cool. Clearly, in the process of becoming an auth'd Cobb installer, he'd spent a lot of time, w/ a lot of different WRX setups, on the dyno.
However, Modern didn't have a dyno operating at the time they did mine. Was done w/ lots of instrumentation attached. Christian had data/maps for/from a lot of different configuataions, e.g. 3 or 4 different cat-back systems, but didn't have one specifically for my SPT unit + K & N, so got close, and tuned (w/ lots of test drives) from there. He explained that actual power gains, from what he/Cobb had seen on dyno varied; a bit from car-to-car, and more depending on other mods (like specific exhaust). The guestimate was at least 25 HP, maybe a touch more, so, let's say in the 10% range. They also did some fine adjustments to BOV linkage, etc, to make boost was fully up to stock spec. Christian's take on was I leaving anything on the table by not actually tuning on a dyno was "very little, if any- there's enough dyno experience behind the maps/data that I can hit things really close." Now, as the seller, what else would you expect him to say, BUT, I found him extremely knowledgeable, straight shooter, etc. I believe him.
The result was....very obvious, and very nice. Useable power appears a few hundred RPM lower. What is really noticable is how the torque curve has flattened out from 4-7K; it pulls strong and steady all the way to redline. Speaking of redline, one of the thing he did was replace stock ECU programming for fuel cutoff at 7200 w/ ignition cut at 7100.
Haven't put a watch on it, but I think 0-60's down close to 1/2 a second. Street fuel mileage has noticably improved.
I have had zero problems; 7 autocrosses, a driver's school, 4K street miles. Not cheap, particularly w/ the drive to SLC, hotel for a nite, but nice, and what I was looking for- a reasonable boost in power w/o inviting reliability issues. This season is suspension development for me, too. This winter, exhaust, and re-tuning the chip to the exhaust. That's a key plus- w/ re-mapping, the ability to get more from an exhaust mod than you'd get w/ a stocj=k ECU alone.
Len
| dwx | 06-27-2002 08:34 PM |
There will be an alternative A/F and timing controller out fairly soon. I don't know whether this item also controls boost as well, it probably does. The TXS unichip+harness is useless for autocross as the harness actually controls the boost. There might be a way to modify the harness to fix this but I'm not sure. The Vishnu unichip uses a MBC to control boost so all you have to do is disconnect that. His unichip uses MAP values for reference I believe, so it should still be useful if you are using stock boost control.
Headers are the only thing I don't see on your list, but the gain/cost ratio is pretty low, especially using the stock turbo.
Phil
Headers are the only thing I don't see on your list, but the gain/cost ratio is pretty low, especially using the stock turbo.
Phil
| Shankster | 07-10-2002 10:53 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]Thanks for all the info guys!
I decided on the Tein RAs myself. They come with the camber plates, seem to be a "matched" package, and are not a bad price once you take into account the 45mm inverted design WITH camber plates and rear pillowball mounts.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Tom,
I'm sure you considered it, but why don't you just try some good springs along with your Konis? It would save big $$ and should be a good STX setup. That's the route I'm planning on so I'd be interested to know if there is a good reason why you've decided against it. I was about to buy the Konis and run them for the rest of the season in DS but you're giving me second thoughts.
PS Aint no way Old Racer is gonna get me again this weekend (I was the slow DS WRX) - he's had his day in the sun - never again!
[B]Thanks for all the info guys!
I decided on the Tein RAs myself. They come with the camber plates, seem to be a "matched" package, and are not a bad price once you take into account the 45mm inverted design WITH camber plates and rear pillowball mounts.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Tom,
I'm sure you considered it, but why don't you just try some good springs along with your Konis? It would save big $$ and should be a good STX setup. That's the route I'm planning on so I'd be interested to know if there is a good reason why you've decided against it. I was about to buy the Konis and run them for the rest of the season in DS but you're giving me second thoughts.
PS Aint no way Old Racer is gonna get me again this weekend (I was the slow DS WRX) - he's had his day in the sun - never again!
| MNbiker | 07-11-2002 02:09 AM |
Tom,
This is an excellent thread! I'm looking at prepping my car for STX, once I get it broken in (just became a Rex convert, after several years with a BMW 3-series). Lots of good feedback & ideas.
One relatively inexpensive mod no one has mentioned yet are the STi motor & tranny mounts. I believe they're legal for STX.
Steve
This is an excellent thread! I'm looking at prepping my car for STX, once I get it broken in (just became a Rex convert, after several years with a BMW 3-series). Lots of good feedback & ideas.
One relatively inexpensive mod no one has mentioned yet are the STi motor & tranny mounts. I believe they're legal for STX.
Steve
| KC | 07-11-2002 08:23 AM |
Yes they are. Just don't confuse tranny mount with rear differential mount as the diff mount is not legal to swap out.
--kC
--kC
| trhoppe | 07-11-2002 08:26 AM |
I have nothing against the konis at all. I love them......for DS.
On a nice set of coilovers I will be able to adjust the height, swap out springs if I want a higher/lower spring rate, also do compression and rebound adjustment rather then just compression. Can't do that with the Konis. Also I don't know of anyone that sells the rear pillowball mounts for our car that come with the Teins. Also the Teins save about 20lbs over the stock stuff :)
I'm not knocking the konis at all. I really like them, but I think for STX the ideal setup would be a nice matched set of coilovers.
As far as the cost side, I think I have that worked out in a favorable way, but Im not 100% sure yet. :devil:
-Tom
On a nice set of coilovers I will be able to adjust the height, swap out springs if I want a higher/lower spring rate, also do compression and rebound adjustment rather then just compression. Can't do that with the Konis. Also I don't know of anyone that sells the rear pillowball mounts for our car that come with the Teins. Also the Teins save about 20lbs over the stock stuff :)
I'm not knocking the konis at all. I really like them, but I think for STX the ideal setup would be a nice matched set of coilovers.
As far as the cost side, I think I have that worked out in a favorable way, but Im not 100% sure yet. :devil:
-Tom
| 2QUICK4U | 07-11-2002 10:48 AM |
I couldn't agree more about the coilovers. I contemplated going with konis and a good set of springs, but I think the spring rates I would want for STX would be too high for daily driving.
So last week I purchased a set of the JIC FLT-A2. They are excellent. The pillowball mounts are superior, and absolutely silent. Last Saturdays Autox I closed in on the class leaders that I usually trail by 1.5-2 seconds (I currently run ESP and finished second by a tenth).
I will be switching to STX for Nationals.
So last week I purchased a set of the JIC FLT-A2. They are excellent. The pillowball mounts are superior, and absolutely silent. Last Saturdays Autox I closed in on the class leaders that I usually trail by 1.5-2 seconds (I currently run ESP and finished second by a tenth).
I will be switching to STX for Nationals.
| trhoppe | 07-11-2002 11:05 AM |
2QUICK4U - Can you give me some more info on the JIC FLT-A2 coilovers? Are they both rebound and compression adjustable? How much were they? etc etc..... either here or email private.
Thanks
-Tom
Thanks
-Tom
| 2QUICK4U | 07-11-2002 11:19 AM |
trhoppe, the JIC are similar to the Tein RA's. There are quite a few threads in the suspension forum on them. There are 15 levels of compression/rebound adjustability on one knob on the bottom of them strut. The ride height is also adjustable independent of the spring load. And the piston on these things are frickin huge, like 45 of 50 mm.
| TheWRX | 07-11-2002 11:59 AM |
2QUICK4U: What spring rates are you using? I think the default is 8/6 on the JIC FLT-A2, is that what you got? I would be interested to hear how they perform for you in the long run, they sound like an interesting option. I'm currently leaning towards the Tein RA, mostly because they are more established than the JIC.
I think one difference between the two is that the JIC use progressive springs, while the RA use linear springs with helpers? I could never find out much about the relative benefits of the two approaches.
I think one difference between the two is that the JIC use progressive springs, while the RA use linear springs with helpers? I could never find out much about the relative benefits of the two approaches.
| 2QUICK4U | 07-11-2002 07:07 PM |
TheWRX,
Yep, mine are 8/6. I was going to order them with softer springs, but I'm glad I didn't. I am very happy with the JIC so far. Very high quality and fitment was perfect, right down to the breakline attachments.
But ummm, for you guys going to Nationals, DONT GET THE JIC's, they probably wont work good for you! ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yep, mine are 8/6. I was going to order them with softer springs, but I'm glad I didn't. I am very happy with the JIC so far. Very high quality and fitment was perfect, right down to the breakline attachments.
But ummm, for you guys going to Nationals, DONT GET THE JIC's, they probably wont work good for you! ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:
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