| 02wrbrex | 12-27-2006 04:34 AM |
5th point
�
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Okay so i just got some 5 point harnesses and some seats with a 5th hole. Where should i mount the sub belt to? The back of the seat bracket? Custom fab a bar and weld it to the seat bracket? I really dont want to drill a hole into the floor. I dont want anything that is permanent.
I tried searching for it and didnt find much of anything.
I tried searching for it and didnt find much of anything.
| Scooby South | 12-27-2006 07:59 AM |
Some folks just make a flat bar connection from the two forward seat mounts...
Some use the existing seat frame underneath as a anchor...both are not permanant...and the sub belt is easily stowed under the seat...:)..
Bill
Some use the existing seat frame underneath as a anchor...both are not permanant...and the sub belt is easily stowed under the seat...:)..
Bill
| 02wrbrex | 12-27-2006 12:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16450826]Some folks just make a flat bar connection from the two forward seat mounts...
Some use the existing seat frame underneath as a anchor...both are not permanant...and the sub belt is easily stowed under the seat...:)..
Bill[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info! Is that the correct angle for the sub belt to be coming from the front like that?
Some use the existing seat frame underneath as a anchor...both are not permanant...and the sub belt is easily stowed under the seat...:)..
Bill[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info! Is that the correct angle for the sub belt to be coming from the front like that?
| GarySheehan | 12-27-2006 01:38 PM |
[QUOTE=02wrbrex;16452812]Thanks for the info! Is that the correct angle for the sub belt to be coming from the front like that?[/QUOTE]
Nope. Must come from the rear. Your belts should have install instructions in the package for proper mounting angles. If not, go to the website of the manufacturer to get that info.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
Nope. Must come from the rear. Your belts should have install instructions in the package for proper mounting angles. If not, go to the website of the manufacturer to get that info.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
| AndrewSS | 12-27-2006 01:42 PM |
I use a bar between the front seat's front 2 bolts, its not ideal and its not really mounted where it should be (its even used with my stock seat...) however for soloII I am not worried about the absolute safety of the setup, the 5th pt adds a great amount of fit and comfort for my harness... I hate using just the 4pt now...
Hope that helps, if you need any more info about the 5th point bar, PM me or something... but I should let you know I recommend it for people that plan for autox use and not heavy tracking where bad wrecks are possible.
-Andrew
Hope that helps, if you need any more info about the 5th point bar, PM me or something... but I should let you know I recommend it for people that plan for autox use and not heavy tracking where bad wrecks are possible.
-Andrew
| burned | 12-27-2006 02:12 PM |
if you are not really short you dont need a 5 point harness. We didnta hve it in the race car Driver said that he likes the idea of being able to have children :) ( not good for your moust precious ) i know a co drivert that couldnt walk for quite some while after a crash!
| Scooby South | 12-27-2006 02:27 PM |
[QUOTE=AndrewSS;16453819]I use a bar between the front seat's front 2 bolts, its not ideal and its not really mounted where it should be (its even used with my stock seat...) however for soloII I am not worried about the absolute safety of the setup, the 5th pt adds a great amount of fit and comfort for my harness... I hate using just the 4pt now...
Hope that helps, if you need any more info about the 5th point bar, PM me or something... but I should let you know I recommend it for people that plan for autox use and not heavy tracking where bad wrecks are possible.
-Andrew[/QUOTE]
Exactly..:)...more for Solo2 ...thats what I was referring also..
Thanks Gary...:)
Bill
Hope that helps, if you need any more info about the 5th point bar, PM me or something... but I should let you know I recommend it for people that plan for autox use and not heavy tracking where bad wrecks are possible.
-Andrew[/QUOTE]
Exactly..:)...more for Solo2 ...thats what I was referring also..
Thanks Gary...:)
Bill
| Fogrider | 12-27-2006 02:47 PM |
Were you looking for something like this?
[url]http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60603[/url]
[url]http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60603[/url]
| AndrewSS | 12-27-2006 03:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16454394]Exactly..:)...more for Solo2 ...thats what I was referring also..
Thanks Gary...:)
Bill[/QUOTE]
Indeed, I dont know how many of you harness using autocrossers use the 5th point, but for me it makes the harness WAY better, so much that I dont see much of a point of the 4pt over the stock belt (if you lock it up and put the seat forward "into the belts")... it probably is somewhat physique determined too... im 5'11" and 150-155lbs so I am skinny, tightening the shoulder belts means that the lap belts rise and rise... no matter what, I can get the lap belts tightened to where my hips feel sharp pain, then tighten the shoulders and they rise...
Use the 5th pt in addition and its great, the feel is 100% better IMO...
I just bought the G-force $140 camlock harness from soloracer, bought the clip attachments for the shoulders, and routed em back to the rear seat belt mounts then attached the lap belts to the front seats rear 2 bolts... then I have a bar in the 2 front seat bolts... viola, a cheap and effective harness setup ;)
here is a picture of the 5th pt bar:
[img]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/845/nostrapfaryo7.jpg[/img]
Thanks Gary...:)
Bill[/QUOTE]
Indeed, I dont know how many of you harness using autocrossers use the 5th point, but for me it makes the harness WAY better, so much that I dont see much of a point of the 4pt over the stock belt (if you lock it up and put the seat forward "into the belts")... it probably is somewhat physique determined too... im 5'11" and 150-155lbs so I am skinny, tightening the shoulder belts means that the lap belts rise and rise... no matter what, I can get the lap belts tightened to where my hips feel sharp pain, then tighten the shoulders and they rise...
Use the 5th pt in addition and its great, the feel is 100% better IMO...
I just bought the G-force $140 camlock harness from soloracer, bought the clip attachments for the shoulders, and routed em back to the rear seat belt mounts then attached the lap belts to the front seats rear 2 bolts... then I have a bar in the 2 front seat bolts... viola, a cheap and effective harness setup ;)
here is a picture of the 5th pt bar:
[img]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/845/nostrapfaryo7.jpg[/img]
| GarySheehan | 12-27-2006 05:35 PM |
[QUOTE=burned;16454190]if you are not really short you dont need a 5 point harness. We didnta hve it in the race car Driver said that he likes the idea of being able to have children :) ( not good for your moust precious ) i know a co drivert that couldnt walk for quite some while after a crash![/QUOTE]
Hence, the 6 point harness...
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
Hence, the 6 point harness...
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
| M. Hurst | 12-27-2006 07:18 PM |
This is the best guide for harness mounting and use I've seen:
[url]http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/index.html[/url]
[url]http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/index.html[/url]
| 02wrbrex | 12-27-2006 07:49 PM |
Also does anyone else have pics of their set-up that used a seat with a 5th point hole?
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;16453770]Nope. Must come from the rear. Your belts should have install instructions in the package for proper mounting angles. If not, go to the website of the manufacturer to get that info.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Okay this is from schroth, this was their recommendation for the 5th point. mounting angle is directly aligned with your chest straight down to 20 degrees forward. Do you agree with this?
They recommended for a 6 point to be to the rear as you said.
I went to the manufactures website for sparco and they had nothing to say where to mount the 5th point.
[IMG]http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/images/image_037.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=burned;16454190]if you are not really short you dont need a 5 point harness. We didnta hve it in the race car Driver said that he likes the idea of being able to have children :) ( not good for your moust precious ) i know a co drivert that couldnt walk for quite some while after a crash![/QUOTE]
I have to fully disagree with you. I'm 6'2 and there is no way ill be riding in a car with just 4 points. The belt easily slips up past my waist and in an accident that can crush your organs or you can slip out of the harnesses. It doesnt matter how tall you are you can slip under a 4 point system in an accident.
Anyone else mount a 5th point correctly and not over the front of their seat?
[QUOTE=M. Hurst;16457320]This is the best guide for harness mounting and use I've seen:
[url]http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the link
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;16453770]Nope. Must come from the rear. Your belts should have install instructions in the package for proper mounting angles. If not, go to the website of the manufacturer to get that info.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Okay this is from schroth, this was their recommendation for the 5th point. mounting angle is directly aligned with your chest straight down to 20 degrees forward. Do you agree with this?
They recommended for a 6 point to be to the rear as you said.
I went to the manufactures website for sparco and they had nothing to say where to mount the 5th point.
[IMG]http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/images/image_037.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=burned;16454190]if you are not really short you dont need a 5 point harness. We didnta hve it in the race car Driver said that he likes the idea of being able to have children :) ( not good for your moust precious ) i know a co drivert that couldnt walk for quite some while after a crash![/QUOTE]
I have to fully disagree with you. I'm 6'2 and there is no way ill be riding in a car with just 4 points. The belt easily slips up past my waist and in an accident that can crush your organs or you can slip out of the harnesses. It doesnt matter how tall you are you can slip under a 4 point system in an accident.
Anyone else mount a 5th point correctly and not over the front of their seat?
[QUOTE=M. Hurst;16457320]This is the best guide for harness mounting and use I've seen:
[url]http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the link
| 02wrbrex | 12-28-2006 02:41 PM |
Bump to figure out how other people have mounted their 5th points and to keep it on the page..
| blue blurr | 12-28-2006 04:24 PM |
I have a 6point harness and just drilled two holes in the floor. When I moved the harness out of the subaru and put it in the Spec Miata I just covered the holes with tape and havent had a problem yet. You could always just leave the bolt in the whole to make sure it cant leak
| sciolist | 12-28-2006 04:43 PM |
For autoX, I have mine mounted to the seat base. If I were doing high-speed events, I would have carried it back to the lap belt mounting points.
It's easier for me to adjust the sub with the forward connection point, because I use a slider rather than a removable wheel to get in and out of the car.
It's easier for me to adjust the sub with the forward connection point, because I use a slider rather than a removable wheel to get in and out of the car.
| Patrick Olsen | 12-28-2006 05:54 PM |
I have 5pt harnesses in my Mustang with Sparco Evo2 seats (with a hole for the 5th point). The anti-submarine belt is attached to a bar that goes across under the seat. I don't have a good picture of it, but it is definitely not behind me. My understanding (which has been re-affirmed by the picture from Schroth's website) is that having the 5th point mounted behind you is neither required nor desired.
[quote=02wrbrex]I have to fully disagree with you. I'm 6'2 and there is no way ill be riding in a car with just 4 points. The belt easily slips up past my waist and in an accident that can crush your organs or you can slip out of the harnesses. It doesnt matter how tall you are you can slip under a 4 point system in an accident.[/quote]
Amen. Height has absolutely nothing to do with it.
[quote=burned]We didnta hve it in the race car Driver said that he likes the idea of being able to have children ( not good for your moust precious ) i know a co drivert that couldnt walk for quite some while after a crash![/quote]
I have to disagree with this statement, too. If a 5pt harness is mounted properly there's no danger to the "most precious". If the co-driver was hurt by the anti-submarine belt then either (1) that belt was mounted improperly, or (2) the lap belt wasn't positioned and worn properly to keep the pelvis from rotating under it. Obviously in a strong impact there's a damn good chance you'll come in contact with the anti-submarine belt, but the overwhelming majority of the force should be channelled through the lap and shoulder belts.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[quote=02wrbrex]I have to fully disagree with you. I'm 6'2 and there is no way ill be riding in a car with just 4 points. The belt easily slips up past my waist and in an accident that can crush your organs or you can slip out of the harnesses. It doesnt matter how tall you are you can slip under a 4 point system in an accident.[/quote]
Amen. Height has absolutely nothing to do with it.
[quote=burned]We didnta hve it in the race car Driver said that he likes the idea of being able to have children ( not good for your moust precious ) i know a co drivert that couldnt walk for quite some while after a crash![/quote]
I have to disagree with this statement, too. If a 5pt harness is mounted properly there's no danger to the "most precious". If the co-driver was hurt by the anti-submarine belt then either (1) that belt was mounted improperly, or (2) the lap belt wasn't positioned and worn properly to keep the pelvis from rotating under it. Obviously in a strong impact there's a damn good chance you'll come in contact with the anti-submarine belt, but the overwhelming majority of the force should be channelled through the lap and shoulder belts.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| 02wrbrex | 12-28-2006 10:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;16468454]I have 5pt harnesses in my Mustang with Sparco Evo2 seats (with a hole for the 5th point). The anti-submarine belt is attached to a bar that goes across under the seat. I don't have a good picture of it, but it is definitely not behind me. My understanding (which has been re-affirmed by the picture from Schroth's website) is that having the 5th point mounted behind you is neither required nor desired.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan[/QUOTE]
Thats what im probably going to try to do is probably mount them to my seat base somewhere. I just ordered some OMP sliders and bases. They will be in, in about a week. so i guess i'll just have to see if i can do that or if i have to custom fab a bar to them.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan[/QUOTE]
Thats what im probably going to try to do is probably mount them to my seat base somewhere. I just ordered some OMP sliders and bases. They will be in, in about a week. so i guess i'll just have to see if i can do that or if i have to custom fab a bar to them.
| sciolist | 12-28-2006 11:09 PM |
[QUOTE=02wrbrex;16471247]Thats what im probably going to try to do is probably mount them to my seat base somewhere. I just ordered some OMP sliders and bases. They will be in, in about a week. so i guess i'll just have to see if i can do that or if i have to custom fab a bar to them.[/QUOTE]
The OMP bases work fine with a wrap-around connection in front.
The OMP bases work fine with a wrap-around connection in front.
| GarySheehan | 12-29-2006 12:53 AM |
[QUOTE=02wrbrex;16457575][IMG]http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/images/image_037.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Here is the text that came from the Schroth site that belongs with the above image...
[B][I]PROFI 5-POINT MODELS[/I][/B]
[I]Anti-submarining strap routing in any seating position must follow the
tangential touching of the occupant�s chest and groin. Such routing is a
compromise to help reducing the risk of crotch and groin injuries during a
frontal impact. 5-point racing harnesses are provide lesser safety, proven
by computer simulation, sled testing and in real word accidents,. Therefore
SCHROTH strongly recommends the use of 6-point racing harnesses
only.
[/I]
The routing of the 6-point harness crotch straps is up to 20 degrees behind the opening in the seat.
I'll stick with 6-point, thanks.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
Here is the text that came from the Schroth site that belongs with the above image...
[B][I]PROFI 5-POINT MODELS[/I][/B]
[I]Anti-submarining strap routing in any seating position must follow the
tangential touching of the occupant�s chest and groin. Such routing is a
compromise to help reducing the risk of crotch and groin injuries during a
frontal impact. 5-point racing harnesses are provide lesser safety, proven
by computer simulation, sled testing and in real word accidents,. Therefore
SCHROTH strongly recommends the use of 6-point racing harnesses
only.
[/I]
The routing of the 6-point harness crotch straps is up to 20 degrees behind the opening in the seat.
I'll stick with 6-point, thanks.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
| 02wrbrex | 12-29-2006 01:30 AM |
[QUOTE=sciolist;16471401]The OMP bases work fine with a wrap-around connection in front.[/QUOTE]
Do you have a picture of this set-up?
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;16472284]Here is the text that came from the Schroth site that belongs with the above image...
[B][I]PROFI 5-POINT MODELS[/I][/B]
[I]Anti-submarining strap routing in any seating position must follow the
tangential touching of the occupant�s chest and groin. Such routing is a
compromise to help reducing the risk of crotch and groin injuries during a
frontal impact. 5-point racing harnesses are provide lesser safety, proven
by computer simulation, sled testing and in real word accidents,. Therefore
SCHROTH strongly recommends the use of 6-point racing harnesses
only.
[/I]
The routing of the 6-point harness crotch straps is up to 20 degrees behind the opening in the seat.
I'll stick with 6-point, thanks.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
lol i know i read that. I have 5 a point system I'm not going to buy a 6 point thanks. I'm not looking to see which is better between them and 6 points i know the downfalls of the 5 point. Do you have anymore information on ways to mount the 5th point?
Do you have a picture of this set-up?
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;16472284]Here is the text that came from the Schroth site that belongs with the above image...
[B][I]PROFI 5-POINT MODELS[/I][/B]
[I]Anti-submarining strap routing in any seating position must follow the
tangential touching of the occupant�s chest and groin. Such routing is a
compromise to help reducing the risk of crotch and groin injuries during a
frontal impact. 5-point racing harnesses are provide lesser safety, proven
by computer simulation, sled testing and in real word accidents,. Therefore
SCHROTH strongly recommends the use of 6-point racing harnesses
only.
[/I]
The routing of the 6-point harness crotch straps is up to 20 degrees behind the opening in the seat.
I'll stick with 6-point, thanks.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
lol i know i read that. I have 5 a point system I'm not going to buy a 6 point thanks. I'm not looking to see which is better between them and 6 points i know the downfalls of the 5 point. Do you have anymore information on ways to mount the 5th point?
| burned | 12-29-2006 05:21 AM |
Deriver and co driver have both carbon seats from prodrive [img]http://www.sparco.it/catalogo/BinaryPreview.aspx?objType=objSchedeProdotti.Immagine&prodottoID=246[/img]so there is not possible to wrongly mount the harneses! I shure as hell wouldnt mount a 5 point system myself
| 02wrbrex | 12-29-2006 10:31 PM |
[QUOTE=burned;16473424]Deriver and co driver have both carbon seats from prodrive [img]http://www.sparco.it/catalogo/BinaryPreview.aspx?objType=objSchedeProdotti.Immagine&prodottoID=246[/img]so there is not possible to wrongly mount the harneses! I shure as hell wouldnt mount a 5 point system myself[/QUOTE]
no hablo engrish? I do not understand what you are trying to tell me? Mounting the harnesses is not that hard. I'm just trying to figure out what other people have done with a 5th point hole in their seats.
no hablo engrish? I do not understand what you are trying to tell me? Mounting the harnesses is not that hard. I'm just trying to figure out what other people have done with a 5th point hole in their seats.
| GarySheehan | 12-29-2006 10:49 PM |
[QUOTE=02wrbrex;16482332]no hablo engrish?[/QUOTE]
Maybe not. He's from Slovenia. Nice to see you're the tolerant type, though..
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
Maybe not. He's from Slovenia. Nice to see you're the tolerant type, though..
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
| 02wrbrex | 12-30-2006 12:42 AM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;16482502]Maybe not. He's from Slovenia. Nice to see you're the tolerant type, though..
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Didnt see that. But, still his post makes no sense and did not help with my question at all from what sense i could make of it.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Didnt see that. But, still his post makes no sense and did not help with my question at all from what sense i could make of it.
| burned | 12-30-2006 03:40 AM |
I wanted to state out that in my opinion i wouldnt mount a 5 point.
But if you want it the only solution that really works is to weld a mounting point onto the floor everything elese is only there for looks!
But if you want it the only solution that really works is to weld a mounting point onto the floor everything elese is only there for looks!
| 02wrbrex | 12-30-2006 03:50 AM |
[QUOTE=burned;16484140]I wanted to state out that in my opinion i wouldnt mount a 5 point.
But if you want it the only solution that really works is to weld a mounting point onto the floor everything elese is only there for looks![/QUOTE]
Thanks for your opinion.
Wouldnt a drilled hole in the floor with a large washer on the bottom be stronger than just having it welded in a small area? Either way i'm not going to be doing it that way. I really dont feel like doing something permanent to my car.
But if you want it the only solution that really works is to weld a mounting point onto the floor everything elese is only there for looks![/QUOTE]
Thanks for your opinion.
Wouldnt a drilled hole in the floor with a large washer on the bottom be stronger than just having it welded in a small area? Either way i'm not going to be doing it that way. I really dont feel like doing something permanent to my car.
| burned | 12-30-2006 04:05 AM |
Well on our racing car it was a plate of steel 10 by 5 cm and wealded to a crossmeber od on the floor under the seat so not a really small area but if you dont want to make any permanent stuff it is better to leave it in original state because everything else wont do the job right.
Greetings from cold but no snow Slovenia :)
Greetings from cold but no snow Slovenia :)
| 02wrbrex | 12-30-2006 04:17 AM |
Gotcha i thought you just welded something to the floor pan lol. I know its not the 100% correct safe way to do it but i really think it is better than just running a 4 point system without a sub belt. so i'll just have to tinker around with things once i get my sliders and bases delivered.
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