| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 11:52 AM |
A-Stock Solo II Tire choices
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Just curious if anyone out here has setup and STi for SCCA Solo II A-Stock. My question to you guys that may have tried this revolves around fitment of 245/45ZR-17 Hoosier. I know its a tight squeeze but I'm sure the tire can be crammed on to the 7.5" wheel. Will this tire clear the fenders/suspension components? Is an alternative offset required (that's within the stock +/-1/4" specs).
Just curious if someone has tried this yet so I can try to shortcut my R&D budget for this winter. Thanks in advance.
Matt Watkins
Just curious if someone has tried this yet so I can try to shortcut my R&D budget for this winter. Thanks in advance.
Matt Watkins
| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 12:37 PM |
Sweet... Just figured out the search here... consensous appears to be yes from what I've read... So unless someone tells me otherwise I'm gonna assume they'll fit.
| lo-buck | 01-02-2004 01:09 PM |
yup, theyll fit. one more advanage STi has over evo. evo only can fit 225(?) before rubbing both inside and out.
-spenc
ps-welcome to the subaru world matt
-spenc
ps-welcome to the subaru world matt
| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 02:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lo-buck[/i]
[B] yup, theyll fit. one more advanage STi has over evo. evo only can fit 225(?) before rubbing both inside and out.
-spenc
ps-welcome to the subaru world matt [/B][/QUOTE]
Hahaha. Thanks for the welcome Spenc. I gotta figure out what these Subarus are all about. I'll be seeing you guys in the spring. Hopefully I'll have the car set up by then or at least have some race tires/wheels.
First event in the STi i think is the 18th of this month. I'm so excited to see how the car behaves at the limit. Setting up the shocks should be interesting too!
Matt
[B] yup, theyll fit. one more advanage STi has over evo. evo only can fit 225(?) before rubbing both inside and out.
-spenc
ps-welcome to the subaru world matt [/B][/QUOTE]
Hahaha. Thanks for the welcome Spenc. I gotta figure out what these Subarus are all about. I'll be seeing you guys in the spring. Hopefully I'll have the car set up by then or at least have some race tires/wheels.
First event in the STi i think is the 18th of this month. I'm so excited to see how the car behaves at the limit. Setting up the shocks should be interesting too!
Matt
| KC | 01-02-2004 02:25 PM |
Welcome to the fold Matt. See you at Petersburg?
| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 02:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] Welcome to the fold Matt. See you at Petersburg? [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh yeah!! I should have the car sorted by then. Unless I'm more retarded then usual :D.
[B] Welcome to the fold Matt. See you at Petersburg? [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh yeah!! I should have the car sorted by then. Unless I'm more retarded then usual :D.
| STipoweredWRC | 01-02-2004 03:57 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lo-buck[/i]
[B] yup, theyll fit. one more advanage STi has over evo. evo only can fit 225(?) before rubbing both inside and out.
-spenc
ps-welcome to the subaru world matt [/B][/QUOTE]
actually the EVO comes with 235s.
[B] yup, theyll fit. one more advanage STi has over evo. evo only can fit 225(?) before rubbing both inside and out.
-spenc
ps-welcome to the subaru world matt [/B][/QUOTE]
actually the EVO comes with 235s.
| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 04:18 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by STipoweredWRC[/i]
[B] actually the EVO comes with 235s. [/B][/QUOTE]
It may come with 235 street tires but I'm willing to bet they're only about the size of Hoosier 225s (if they're even that big). I know the 225 Hoosiers I have stacked in the garage from my Integra Have alot more width then the STi's Potenzas. Hoosiers are just wide tires.
If the EVO can't squeeze onto a set of 245s I would defintely imagine that that would be a disadvantage. I still have a little concern with the 245s rubbing on the fender of the STi. Especially since the STi won't be picking up camber under suspension compression like my double a-arm integra. Anyone have a good link to STi suspension analysis? I've got a lot of experience with double a-arm setup but I'm definitly a macpherson strut newbie. I'd love to see what's happening under bump and rebound. Especially under changing levels of steering input. Good diagrams/discussions would rock if anyone has any.
[B] actually the EVO comes with 235s. [/B][/QUOTE]
It may come with 235 street tires but I'm willing to bet they're only about the size of Hoosier 225s (if they're even that big). I know the 225 Hoosiers I have stacked in the garage from my Integra Have alot more width then the STi's Potenzas. Hoosiers are just wide tires.
If the EVO can't squeeze onto a set of 245s I would defintely imagine that that would be a disadvantage. I still have a little concern with the 245s rubbing on the fender of the STi. Especially since the STi won't be picking up camber under suspension compression like my double a-arm integra. Anyone have a good link to STi suspension analysis? I've got a lot of experience with double a-arm setup but I'm definitly a macpherson strut newbie. I'd love to see what's happening under bump and rebound. Especially under changing levels of steering input. Good diagrams/discussions would rock if anyone has any.
| Patrick L | 01-02-2004 06:18 PM |
What you guys using for adjustable struts on your STI's?
I see that Teagues Auto is selling Koni full strut replacements and not inserts.
I see that Teagues Auto is selling Koni full strut replacements and not inserts.
| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 06:48 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Top_Dog [/i]
[B]What you guys using for adjustable struts on your STI's?
I see that Teagues Auto is selling Koni full strut replacements and not inserts. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm undecided at this point. I've talked to Koni and they suggested I talk to Cobb. I havn't heard back from Cobb yet so we'll see what they have to say.
I also haven't autocrossed the car yet so I have no plans to purchase struts until I get a chance to drive it at the limit. I guarantee the front end is going to need the most help on the car especially without a decent dynamic camber curve through the bump stroke. Making optimum use of the front tires will be KEY.
Still, I have to get it out on a course... Analyzing balance/feedback at 7/10ths is LOT different then 10/10ths.
Another thing to note is with the inverted setup I believe (I could be wrong on this) you are limited to monotube inserts. From what I understand the bump valve in a twin-tube shock would become nitrogen saturated (bump is located at the bottom of the shock but since it would be inverted it would be at the top with the gas charge) and lose its effectiveness. I'm no shock expert and I'm still trying to sort this all out. Though, this may be why koni are selling complete kits not inserts.... interesting.
There's a decent learning curve for me here!!
-Matt
[B]What you guys using for adjustable struts on your STI's?
I see that Teagues Auto is selling Koni full strut replacements and not inserts. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm undecided at this point. I've talked to Koni and they suggested I talk to Cobb. I havn't heard back from Cobb yet so we'll see what they have to say.
I also haven't autocrossed the car yet so I have no plans to purchase struts until I get a chance to drive it at the limit. I guarantee the front end is going to need the most help on the car especially without a decent dynamic camber curve through the bump stroke. Making optimum use of the front tires will be KEY.
Still, I have to get it out on a course... Analyzing balance/feedback at 7/10ths is LOT different then 10/10ths.
Another thing to note is with the inverted setup I believe (I could be wrong on this) you are limited to monotube inserts. From what I understand the bump valve in a twin-tube shock would become nitrogen saturated (bump is located at the bottom of the shock but since it would be inverted it would be at the top with the gas charge) and lose its effectiveness. I'm no shock expert and I'm still trying to sort this all out. Though, this may be why koni are selling complete kits not inserts.... interesting.
There's a decent learning curve for me here!!
-Matt
| AWMIII | 01-02-2004 06:51 PM |
See you in A-Stock Matt!
Bill McMichael
Bill McMichael
| lo-buck | 01-02-2004 06:56 PM |
one answer to the camber issue is the camber bolts which are legal for stock classes. there cam chaped bolts that replace the ones in the strut-to-knuckle. i know a friend of mine was able to pick up a few 10ths of degrees with the stock hardware.
| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 07:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AWMIII[/i]
[B] See you in A-Stock Matt!
Bill McMichael [/B][/QUOTE]
Sweet! Sounds like there should be some good local competition this year! I'm assuming you traded the subaru for the SVT listed? Interesting!!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lo-buck[/i]
[B] one answer to the camber issue is the camber bolts which are legal for stock classes. there cam chaped bolts that replace the ones in the strut-to-knuckle. i know a friend of mine was able to pick up a few 10ths of degrees with the stock hardware. [/B][/QUOTE]
Camber bolts are only stock legal if there are allowances for them specified within the factory service manual (which I have yet to get my hands on!). I know the ES MR2 permits these not sure about the STi yet... Is there a good source for Subaru Service Manuals?
[B] See you in A-Stock Matt!
Bill McMichael [/B][/QUOTE]
Sweet! Sounds like there should be some good local competition this year! I'm assuming you traded the subaru for the SVT listed? Interesting!!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lo-buck[/i]
[B] one answer to the camber issue is the camber bolts which are legal for stock classes. there cam chaped bolts that replace the ones in the strut-to-knuckle. i know a friend of mine was able to pick up a few 10ths of degrees with the stock hardware. [/B][/QUOTE]
Camber bolts are only stock legal if there are allowances for them specified within the factory service manual (which I have yet to get my hands on!). I know the ES MR2 permits these not sure about the STi yet... Is there a good source for Subaru Service Manuals?
| KC | 01-02-2004 07:14 PM |
Sadly, Subaru doesn't believe camber bolts should be included. If something's out of whack, replace the bent parts... not fix using a $1.00 bolt.
| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 07:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] Sadly, Subaru doesn't believe camber bolts should be included. If something's out of whack, replace the bent parts... not fix using a $1.00 bolt. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's what I heard... I'm assuming custom struts with slightly different mounting holes would be illeagle since that would in effect "change geometry". Sounds like a big-azz front bar will be the order of the day.
[B] Sadly, Subaru doesn't believe camber bolts should be included. If something's out of whack, replace the bent parts... not fix using a $1.00 bolt. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's what I heard... I'm assuming custom struts with slightly different mounting holes would be illeagle since that would in effect "change geometry". Sounds like a big-azz front bar will be the order of the day.
| AWMIII | 01-02-2004 08:29 PM |
just get some hoosiers and wait till you see how it is. I'll bet that the sti does not need a new front bar. I ran 245 40 17s on the wrx and they made silly amounts of grip. Oh and pray for rain that always works too.
| Watkinsm3 | 01-02-2004 08:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AWMIII[/i]
[B] just get some hoosiers and wait till you see how it is. I'll bet that the sti does not need a new front bar. I ran 245 40 17s on the wrx and they made silly amounts of grip. Oh and pray for rain that always works too. [/B][/QUOTE]
I definitely won't change anything (shocks or bars) until I have some events on the car. Silly amounts of grip or not the car's weakness so far appears to be turn in and transitional response. I havn't had the car at the limit yet but fairly certain those traits will be there. It rotates nicely under throttle so once Its in the turn there shouldn't be any problems... I'm just concerned about being able to get it into the turn quickly and without too much push (i picked up some pretty high standards from my SP Integra).
Only time will tell...
BTW - what size (width) wheel did you have those hoosiers mounted on?
[B] just get some hoosiers and wait till you see how it is. I'll bet that the sti does not need a new front bar. I ran 245 40 17s on the wrx and they made silly amounts of grip. Oh and pray for rain that always works too. [/B][/QUOTE]
I definitely won't change anything (shocks or bars) until I have some events on the car. Silly amounts of grip or not the car's weakness so far appears to be turn in and transitional response. I havn't had the car at the limit yet but fairly certain those traits will be there. It rotates nicely under throttle so once Its in the turn there shouldn't be any problems... I'm just concerned about being able to get it into the turn quickly and without too much push (i picked up some pretty high standards from my SP Integra).
Only time will tell...
BTW - what size (width) wheel did you have those hoosiers mounted on?
| AWMIII | 01-02-2004 09:53 PM |
17x7.5 rota tarmacs
It won't turn in like any street prepared car. That is what street prepared cars do... turn in. It also won't break your teeth or blow a strut when you nail a pothole on the turnpike. Its like 20% heavier than your integra so it is not going to be as nimble. I have seen a certain stx integra pilot wearing ear plugs when driving the car ont he highway. That why some of us compete in stock classes. We want a civilized car. I firmly believe that all of the sti's weaknesses in stock class other than the lag and power problems, can be fixed with struts and alignment. Remember that R tires are going to really help turn-in. If you want the car to turn in better, dial in some front toe out. Want to rotate? Dial in some rear toe out. Want to save your tires? Get a minivan.
It won't turn in like any street prepared car. That is what street prepared cars do... turn in. It also won't break your teeth or blow a strut when you nail a pothole on the turnpike. Its like 20% heavier than your integra so it is not going to be as nimble. I have seen a certain stx integra pilot wearing ear plugs when driving the car ont he highway. That why some of us compete in stock classes. We want a civilized car. I firmly believe that all of the sti's weaknesses in stock class other than the lag and power problems, can be fixed with struts and alignment. Remember that R tires are going to really help turn-in. If you want the car to turn in better, dial in some front toe out. Want to rotate? Dial in some rear toe out. Want to save your tires? Get a minivan.
| lo-buck | 01-03-2004 10:28 AM |
AMWIII-do u realy feel lag with sti? the course i drove it on had a 1st gear u-turn (literally) and i left it in 2nd as to not beat up the trans on a car thats not mine. i felt a touch of lag but i was in 2nd at idle.
-my experience
-my experience
| ellisnc | 01-03-2004 10:51 AM |
hey guys, if you're having trouble finding dampers for the car you can always have JRZ or Moton build you some that will accept the stock springs and top mounts.
This is what always happens with nationally competitive cars... S2000, Z06, M3 all have very nice dampers available for use with stock springs. They'll build for strut suspensions as well as U/L control arm.
I know it's a lot of money, but in stock class you don't have a lot you can spend money on. Last time I looked for the S2000, a set of JRZ single adjustable were running around $2500 or so I think.
Also wouldn't you want 245/40?
This is what always happens with nationally competitive cars... S2000, Z06, M3 all have very nice dampers available for use with stock springs. They'll build for strut suspensions as well as U/L control arm.
I know it's a lot of money, but in stock class you don't have a lot you can spend money on. Last time I looked for the S2000, a set of JRZ single adjustable were running around $2500 or so I think.
Also wouldn't you want 245/40?
| jbrennen | 01-03-2004 11:43 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Watkinsm3 [/i]
[B]
If the EVO can't squeeze onto a set of 245s I would defintely imagine that that would be a disadvantage. I still have a little concern with the 245s rubbing on the fender of the STi. [/B][/QUOTE]
Both the Evo and the STi can fit 245/40R17 Hoosiers. I did an autoX event in October where there were two of us in A Stock on 245/40R17 Hoosiers -- my Evo and an STi.
Click here to see an Evo with 245/40R17 Hoosiers mounted -- [url]http://www.brennen.net/images/car34.jpg[/url]
I'm also told the Evo can fit 255 Kumhos, but haven't seen it myself.
[B]
If the EVO can't squeeze onto a set of 245s I would defintely imagine that that would be a disadvantage. I still have a little concern with the 245s rubbing on the fender of the STi. [/B][/QUOTE]
Both the Evo and the STi can fit 245/40R17 Hoosiers. I did an autoX event in October where there were two of us in A Stock on 245/40R17 Hoosiers -- my Evo and an STi.
Click here to see an Evo with 245/40R17 Hoosiers mounted -- [url]http://www.brennen.net/images/car34.jpg[/url]
I'm also told the Evo can fit 255 Kumhos, but haven't seen it myself.
| trhoppe | 01-03-2004 12:31 PM |
You can fit wider then a 245 ;)
Are the STi struts the same external dimension as the regular WRX struts? If so, you can just get the non-inverted wrx struts converted into doubles by Koni or ProParts. I think that would be the best way to go.
-Tom
Are the STi struts the same external dimension as the regular WRX struts? If so, you can just get the non-inverted wrx struts converted into doubles by Koni or ProParts. I think that would be the best way to go.
-Tom
| XT6Wagon | 01-04-2004 01:52 AM |
Um... the STi comes stock with crashbolts.... Never mind the nifty practice of loosening all the bolts in the suspension, then loading the hub nice and hard by jacking up that corner of the car by the studs ... then torque them all back down for that extra tiny bit....
| AWMIII | 01-04-2004 09:14 AM |
Compared to a c4 the sti does lag and is slow. There is no substitute for a na engine. Granted, the sti is worlds better than a stock wrx in the lag department, a turbo car will always have lag. Even a 996 turbo (which I have autocrossed a couple of times) has lag when compared to a car with really good throttle response(m3 or m5). Don't get me wrong, I think that the sti will do well locally, at pros, in bad weather, and on asphault national events, but the c4 is a great car with YEARS of developement. My point to matt was mearly that if you are used to a nationally prepped sp car, there are no stock cars that will turn in like a sp car(save possible the mr spyder and elise).
| lo-buck | 01-04-2004 11:22 AM |
[I]My point to matt was mearly that if you are used to a nationally prepped sp car, there are no stock cars that will turn in like a sp car(save possible the mr spyder and elise).[/I]
you are 100% correct.
you are 100% correct.
| KC | 01-04-2004 11:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by XT6Wagon[/i]
[B] Um... the STi comes stock with crashbolts....[/B][/QUOTE]...that are called 'camber bolts' in the FSM, they're only in the front and cannot be replaced with something out of stock size. :)
--kC
[B] Um... the STi comes stock with crashbolts....[/B][/QUOTE]...that are called 'camber bolts' in the FSM, they're only in the front and cannot be replaced with something out of stock size. :)
--kC
| Big Mini | 01-05-2004 10:23 AM |
.[QUOTE]I also haven't autocrossed the car yet so I have no plans to purchase struts until I get a chance to drive it at the limit. I guarantee the front end is going to need the most help on the car especially without a decent dynamic camber curve through the bump stroke. Making optimum use of the front tires will be KEY.[/QUOTE]
Matt - I have had a chance to autocross a totally stock STI a couple of times, and your right, the front end needs the work. The car is soft on turn in and "appears" to lack front end grip, which usually means back off the gas, which in turn does something funny with the DCCD and gives you even less grip. I found if you stay on the gas the grip actually comes back after initial turn in and you can carry a lot of speed to the apex, then more power at the paex and the car will do that oversteer understeer wiggle and shoot you out of the bend nicely.
With some tire, alignment, shocks and maybe roll bar, along with adjusting a normal driving style to what the car thinks is the fastest way around the bend, I bet there is very little understeer problems, and I still think the right set up in the right hands can give the C4's a run for their money.
Kerry - Texas
Matt - I have had a chance to autocross a totally stock STI a couple of times, and your right, the front end needs the work. The car is soft on turn in and "appears" to lack front end grip, which usually means back off the gas, which in turn does something funny with the DCCD and gives you even less grip. I found if you stay on the gas the grip actually comes back after initial turn in and you can carry a lot of speed to the apex, then more power at the paex and the car will do that oversteer understeer wiggle and shoot you out of the bend nicely.
With some tire, alignment, shocks and maybe roll bar, along with adjusting a normal driving style to what the car thinks is the fastest way around the bend, I bet there is very little understeer problems, and I still think the right set up in the right hands can give the C4's a run for their money.
Kerry - Texas
| Watkinsm3 | 01-05-2004 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Big Mini[/i]
[B] .
Matt - I have had a chance to autocross a totally stock STI a couple of times, and your right, the front end needs the work. The car is soft on turn in and "appears" to lack front end grip, which usually means back off the gas, which in turn does something funny with the DCCD and gives you even less grip. [/B][/QUOTE]
I wonder if this grip change under breaking is fron the "AUTO" DCCD shifting its bias? I imagine, if this is the case, leaving the DCCD in manual mode will be optimal. Then again, I havn't autocrossed it yet so I can't be certain.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Big Mini[/i]
[B] .
and I still think the right set up in the right hands can give the C4's a run for their money.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree... I'm not sure I'm up to the challange but it'll be fun to try.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] You can fit wider then a 245 ;)
Are the STi struts the same external dimension as the regular WRX struts? If so, you can just get the non-inverted wrx struts converted into doubles by Koni or ProParts. I think that would be the best way to go.
[/B][/QUOTE]
What are you implying here Tom? 275s? :eek:
I think I wanna stick with a mono-tube shock at least and I doubt the standard WRX kit is a mono-tube shock. I've become a huge fan of the increased low-speed damping associated with the monotube shock...er strut... whatever.
Either way... I'm imagining a Koni product. Mono-tube. double adjustable front and rear.
[B] .
Matt - I have had a chance to autocross a totally stock STI a couple of times, and your right, the front end needs the work. The car is soft on turn in and "appears" to lack front end grip, which usually means back off the gas, which in turn does something funny with the DCCD and gives you even less grip. [/B][/QUOTE]
I wonder if this grip change under breaking is fron the "AUTO" DCCD shifting its bias? I imagine, if this is the case, leaving the DCCD in manual mode will be optimal. Then again, I havn't autocrossed it yet so I can't be certain.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Big Mini[/i]
[B] .
and I still think the right set up in the right hands can give the C4's a run for their money.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree... I'm not sure I'm up to the challange but it'll be fun to try.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] You can fit wider then a 245 ;)
Are the STi struts the same external dimension as the regular WRX struts? If so, you can just get the non-inverted wrx struts converted into doubles by Koni or ProParts. I think that would be the best way to go.
[/B][/QUOTE]
What are you implying here Tom? 275s? :eek:
I think I wanna stick with a mono-tube shock at least and I doubt the standard WRX kit is a mono-tube shock. I've become a huge fan of the increased low-speed damping associated with the monotube shock...er strut... whatever.
Either way... I'm imagining a Koni product. Mono-tube. double adjustable front and rear.
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