| roybfr | 01-22-2004 12:26 AM |
Being competative in SM at a local and regional level
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I need a little help with the future plans for my car. Currently I am running a Stage 4 set up with a larger TMIC, UTEC ect, prodrive springs, and Kumho 712's on 17" X 7/5" wheels.
I have been slowly collecting the parts for what was hopfully a pretty potent SM car, EJ257, heads, STI RA 5 4.44 box with front and rear LSD's, swaybars ect. But I am starting to get second thoughts and am looking for some advise on what would be best in the long run. I am leaning heavily to not installing the EJ257 and keeping the EJ20, first it run's good and second it only has 16k miles on it even thugh the car is over 2 years old. I guess to get to the point, if I forgo the install of the EJ257 but still go along with STI RA 4.44 box can I still be competative in SM at both a local and regional level over the long term. I say long term as today the car will not lose the race my lack of driving skills will. But say 2-3 years down the line as I hopfully get better can the above setup be competative, maybe even with a smaller turbo.
I have been slowly collecting the parts for what was hopfully a pretty potent SM car, EJ257, heads, STI RA 5 4.44 box with front and rear LSD's, swaybars ect. But I am starting to get second thoughts and am looking for some advise on what would be best in the long run. I am leaning heavily to not installing the EJ257 and keeping the EJ20, first it run's good and second it only has 16k miles on it even thugh the car is over 2 years old. I guess to get to the point, if I forgo the install of the EJ257 but still go along with STI RA 4.44 box can I still be competative in SM at both a local and regional level over the long term. I say long term as today the car will not lose the race my lack of driving skills will. But say 2-3 years down the line as I hopfully get better can the above setup be competative, maybe even with a smaller turbo.
| thechickencow | 01-22-2004 12:58 AM |
Local the car shoudl do well, depending who you compete against locally.
Region/Nationally it depends on if you'll improve enough as a driver to beat some higher hp, lighter weight cars with amazing drivers.
Region/Nationally it depends on if you'll improve enough as a driver to beat some higher hp, lighter weight cars with amazing drivers.
| afpdl | 01-22-2004 12:59 AM |
Some actually tires would do more for your times then any of those mods would. Though the ej257 will help out with the lag im sure you have comming out of tight corners.
How far are you behind the front runners currently?
How far are you behind the front runners currently?
| KC | 01-22-2004 07:26 AM |
It's a wagon... wagons are naturally fast4r. ;)
Sure, you can do well locally, but just go to a national event or two and see how you stack up against others. That's really the only way to know.
--kC
Sure, you can do well locally, but just go to a national event or two and see how you stack up against others. That's really the only way to know.
--kC
| roybfr | 01-22-2004 12:44 PM |
Maybe instead throwing more money at the car I shoudl just buy and STi and learn how to drive.
| TheWRX | 01-22-2004 01:04 PM |
Tires are certainly where you can make the biggest improvement. Some nice race rubber will be a huge difference compared to the average street tires you're using now.
Next up, I would look at your suspension. Some good coilovers with stiff springs should be another big step forward.
I don't think that power is the limiting factor with your current setup. The only drivetrain part that looks really attractive to me is the front LSD.
Just as an example: The guy winning SM in our region last season was driving a Civic with only very moderate power mods. The main thing was a good suspension setup, and a Quaife. He was obviously using R-compound tires, but they were "only" Kumhos. And most of all: very good driving! He had a supercharger in the car earlier, but found that it didn't make him faster on an auto-x course. Granted, SM is not extremely strong here, but you don't need a monster to do well on a regional level.
Next up, I would look at your suspension. Some good coilovers with stiff springs should be another big step forward.
I don't think that power is the limiting factor with your current setup. The only drivetrain part that looks really attractive to me is the front LSD.
Just as an example: The guy winning SM in our region last season was driving a Civic with only very moderate power mods. The main thing was a good suspension setup, and a Quaife. He was obviously using R-compound tires, but they were "only" Kumhos. And most of all: very good driving! He had a supercharger in the car earlier, but found that it didn't make him faster on an auto-x course. Granted, SM is not extremely strong here, but you don't need a monster to do well on a regional level.
| kwh29 | 01-22-2004 01:12 PM |
Buy some real race tires (Hoosier A4S04 or Kumho V710) and go to a few national tour/Pro Solo events. It'll be clear just how much is car and how much is driver. You'll have fun too, even if you end up DFL, like me...
--Kevin H.
--Kevin H.
| KC | 01-22-2004 01:18 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by roybfr[/i]
[B] Maybe instead throwing more money at the car I shoudl just buy and STi and learn how to drive. [/B][/QUOTE]
If that were the case, start with an inexpensive dedicated auto-x car... like a Civic or or old BMW something and learn how to drive on that car, and throw mods on that car... so when you do get the nice car... you'll be able to use it to it's fullest potential. Look years down the road. :) I had a plan for the wagon in 2002. 1st.. suspension. 2nd.. power. 2002 was working with the suspension... last year was adding power and correcting deficiencies in the suspension from last year.
Or any car for that matter. If you got a few grand to throw at something, and you're not almost near the top of the game driving wise... buy a dedicated car and practice your driving on that.
--kC
[B] Maybe instead throwing more money at the car I shoudl just buy and STi and learn how to drive. [/B][/QUOTE]
If that were the case, start with an inexpensive dedicated auto-x car... like a Civic or or old BMW something and learn how to drive on that car, and throw mods on that car... so when you do get the nice car... you'll be able to use it to it's fullest potential. Look years down the road. :) I had a plan for the wagon in 2002. 1st.. suspension. 2nd.. power. 2002 was working with the suspension... last year was adding power and correcting deficiencies in the suspension from last year.
Or any car for that matter. If you got a few grand to throw at something, and you're not almost near the top of the game driving wise... buy a dedicated car and practice your driving on that.
--kC
| Watkinsm3 | 01-22-2004 02:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B]
Or any car for that matter. If you got a few grand to throw at something, and you're not almost near the top of the game driving wise... buy a dedicated car and practice your driving on that.
[/B][/QUOTE]
There are other advantages you get by proceeding as our esteemed colleague suggested. Intead of just throwing money/parts at the problem, you learn WHY you are throwing said money and parts at the car. You begin to see the faults that specifc cars have and use modifications to correct those faults.
Understanding how a car behaves and how it will respond is paramount to modifying it. Understanding the "WHY" will make you a better driver and save you money in modifications down the road.
I understand, it hard to fight the urge for instant gratification. I've made some of the same mistakes myself.
-Matt
[B]
Or any car for that matter. If you got a few grand to throw at something, and you're not almost near the top of the game driving wise... buy a dedicated car and practice your driving on that.
[/B][/QUOTE]
There are other advantages you get by proceeding as our esteemed colleague suggested. Intead of just throwing money/parts at the problem, you learn WHY you are throwing said money and parts at the car. You begin to see the faults that specifc cars have and use modifications to correct those faults.
Understanding how a car behaves and how it will respond is paramount to modifying it. Understanding the "WHY" will make you a better driver and save you money in modifications down the road.
I understand, it hard to fight the urge for instant gratification. I've made some of the same mistakes myself.
-Matt
| roybfr | 01-22-2004 03:55 PM |
Thanks for the answers kinda helps me make a decission on keeping or selling the EJ257. I bougth the block on a whim, kinda felt that it was the next logical step to go in the evoulution in my cars performance. Been looking at building an EJ25 for 2 years, but thoght this would just be the better route. I acutally did not attend my first Solo II event until after getting the block, but that kind of changed my plans from all out speed drag car to more a Road/SM car. But after a lot of money spend and a lot of money left to spend I am starting to have second thoughts. Kinda like getting the jitters at the alter. :D
If I sold the block and heads I could more fesably afford an extra set of wheels an tires, and possible better suspesion bits, and a whole lot of event registartion fees.
If I sold the block and heads I could more fesably afford an extra set of wheels an tires, and possible better suspesion bits, and a whole lot of event registartion fees.
| Silver Bullet 02 | 01-22-2004 04:07 PM |
You probably want to upgrade your susupension before anything else. I could see going through a set of race compound tires pretty quickly if you didn't have at least a larger front sway bar and a decent amount of negative camber up front. Get sway bars and coilovers. The Tein RA suspension is great for Auto-x but not good for daily driving, especially in weather under 40F (dump truck ride quality). Tein makes some other setups though that are softer and should be okay for local and maybe regional competition.
As mentioned earlier, a set of Kumho 710's (won't be out in our sizes until Summer), Kumho Victoracers or Hoosier A3S04's will do more for your times than any other mod. I would keep going with your current tires until you feel like you are getting the hang of driving (3-10 enents depending on your natural ability and previous experience) then graduate the the more expensive tires.
As far as power goes... I don't know that the bigger turbos help much on most courses. The National courses are a bit more open than any of the three regions I run at so its a toss up. I'm trying to talk a couple WRX friends into doing a test where we compare the following (all cars are 02 WRX's):
Data log time, velocity, and boost for running starts in second gear from 20-60mph, 25-60mph, 30-60mph and 35-60mph.
These are the three setups:
1. VF23, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
2. TD04, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
3. TD04, CAI, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
I codrove the car with the VF23 last year at one event and my times were about 1.5 seconds behind other drivers that I usually beat. Part of the problem was that my Hoosiers had given up the ghost but I wonder if turbo lag had anything to do with it? He car has 500 and 550 lb/in springs front and rear and Koni's and I have the Tein RA setup so that may have made some difference.
If we do this test I'll post the results and it should give you an idea at least about which turbo is best.
If I had a more torquey engine to put in my car I wouldn't hesitate to do it though as long as it wasn't causing a money issue.
Just saw your last post... if its a choice between the new engine and a good suspension and race tires then its a no brainer, at least in the short term... I would pick the suspension.
As mentioned earlier, a set of Kumho 710's (won't be out in our sizes until Summer), Kumho Victoracers or Hoosier A3S04's will do more for your times than any other mod. I would keep going with your current tires until you feel like you are getting the hang of driving (3-10 enents depending on your natural ability and previous experience) then graduate the the more expensive tires.
As far as power goes... I don't know that the bigger turbos help much on most courses. The National courses are a bit more open than any of the three regions I run at so its a toss up. I'm trying to talk a couple WRX friends into doing a test where we compare the following (all cars are 02 WRX's):
Data log time, velocity, and boost for running starts in second gear from 20-60mph, 25-60mph, 30-60mph and 35-60mph.
These are the three setups:
1. VF23, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
2. TD04, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
3. TD04, CAI, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
I codrove the car with the VF23 last year at one event and my times were about 1.5 seconds behind other drivers that I usually beat. Part of the problem was that my Hoosiers had given up the ghost but I wonder if turbo lag had anything to do with it? He car has 500 and 550 lb/in springs front and rear and Koni's and I have the Tein RA setup so that may have made some difference.
If we do this test I'll post the results and it should give you an idea at least about which turbo is best.
If I had a more torquey engine to put in my car I wouldn't hesitate to do it though as long as it wasn't causing a money issue.
Just saw your last post... if its a choice between the new engine and a good suspension and race tires then its a no brainer, at least in the short term... I would pick the suspension.
| Davenow | 01-22-2004 04:58 PM |
You need to ditch the 712's. Those are great street tires, but crap autocross tires (to put it bluntly)
Better suspension would do worlds of help too.
if you care enough to do the tranny, you should care enough to do coilovers. The transmission is not going to help you anywhere near what a set of good coilovers will. Hell even a set of tein flex's will do more for you than that tranny will. Your prodrive springs are simply too soft.
As for the turbo being too laggy, I won my class with a vf22:lol: But I have the fastest spooling vf22 on earth from what I have seen (great dyno tune, THANKS PHIL!!) I also have won SM events locally with it, so dont sweat local, at that level its all about driving. I do, however have a fairly serious suspension. 450lb front spring/350lb rear spring coilovers, 22mm front sway, 24mm rear sway, Azenis(should have used Hoosiers, but no $$$)
Better suspension would do worlds of help too.
if you care enough to do the tranny, you should care enough to do coilovers. The transmission is not going to help you anywhere near what a set of good coilovers will. Hell even a set of tein flex's will do more for you than that tranny will. Your prodrive springs are simply too soft.
As for the turbo being too laggy, I won my class with a vf22:lol: But I have the fastest spooling vf22 on earth from what I have seen (great dyno tune, THANKS PHIL!!) I also have won SM events locally with it, so dont sweat local, at that level its all about driving. I do, however have a fairly serious suspension. 450lb front spring/350lb rear spring coilovers, 22mm front sway, 24mm rear sway, Azenis(should have used Hoosiers, but no $$$)
| dwx | 01-22-2004 05:03 PM |
The 4.44 gear ratios are going to make any turbo not have as much lag as a stock WRX. The stock WRX 2nd gear isn't very good for turbo lag with the TD04, let alone a larger turbo. With that the car will at least be more fun.
I was somewhat disappointed with my car last year, but I think it was more the driver and a few nagging problems with the car that were the main problems. I put in a 6MT and a VF29 before the season, but my suspension wasn't sorted. I was using DMS50s and found out quickly one was blown. So I did a few events on DMS50s and a few on some V8 STI-RA takeoffs, hardly any events with a decent alignment. It killed my set of V700s in short order.
The car was definitely faster everywhere on course with the 6MT and VF29 than with the old TD04 setup. I made 243whp on a dynapack with the TD04, and 262whp with the VF29. The VF29 spooled up about 400-500 rpm later. However it made 260 ft-lbs of torque versus 220 for the TD04, at the same peak, around 3900 rpm and with the 6MT (or 4.44 FD) you are rarely below 3000 rpm.
At a divisional event in Peru last year I ran about .7-.9s behind the top guy on a 50s course, which was Dennis Grant at that event. Dennis isn't at the top of SM, but he's still a top 10 contender if he's on his game, and his car is certainly a prepped SM car. (He beat Tunnell in the Peru ProSolo last year). .7-.9s is alot of time though. I was using the STI-RA takeoffs with an unknown alignment at the time, so I thought that was ok. There was a guy there with a WRX with quite a bit less power than ran very close to me, but he had a very good suspension setup (same size V700 tires).
The first thing I did this year was put the DMS50s back on the shelf and try to figure out what I was doing suspension wise. I still drive the car alot on the street, and they just can't hack that for very long before they stop working right. That and they were rally length struts. I bought some Tanabe Sustec Pro RR coilovers, which had very good reviews in Japanese magazines, very comparable to the Tein RAs. They are limited in adjustability, but that's fine with me, it's less for me to screw up.
I've done a bit power wise as well but that is documented elsewhere. I'm also running 245/45/16 Hoosier A3S03s. I'm doing the ProSolo event in Atlanta in a few weeks. I will not have the better suspension on the car then, but I will have a decent alignment. Decent for basically stock struts that is. There are some VERY good autocrossers signed up in SM there, two of the best in all of all autocross, so I will see exactly how I stand up at this point. I think the car will be good enough to compete nationally, but I'm not at that level as a driver yet. The Atlanta prosolo will basically be a test and tune for me of sorts, but I'm just going to have fun for the most part.
I won events locally, sometimes by a bit, but there is decent competition here. All of the guys I was slower than at the one Divisional I did also went to Nationals. Chris Raglin placed 7th, he was 3rd that event. You really just have to suck it up and drive at the larger events.
I was somewhat disappointed with my car last year, but I think it was more the driver and a few nagging problems with the car that were the main problems. I put in a 6MT and a VF29 before the season, but my suspension wasn't sorted. I was using DMS50s and found out quickly one was blown. So I did a few events on DMS50s and a few on some V8 STI-RA takeoffs, hardly any events with a decent alignment. It killed my set of V700s in short order.
The car was definitely faster everywhere on course with the 6MT and VF29 than with the old TD04 setup. I made 243whp on a dynapack with the TD04, and 262whp with the VF29. The VF29 spooled up about 400-500 rpm later. However it made 260 ft-lbs of torque versus 220 for the TD04, at the same peak, around 3900 rpm and with the 6MT (or 4.44 FD) you are rarely below 3000 rpm.
At a divisional event in Peru last year I ran about .7-.9s behind the top guy on a 50s course, which was Dennis Grant at that event. Dennis isn't at the top of SM, but he's still a top 10 contender if he's on his game, and his car is certainly a prepped SM car. (He beat Tunnell in the Peru ProSolo last year). .7-.9s is alot of time though. I was using the STI-RA takeoffs with an unknown alignment at the time, so I thought that was ok. There was a guy there with a WRX with quite a bit less power than ran very close to me, but he had a very good suspension setup (same size V700 tires).
The first thing I did this year was put the DMS50s back on the shelf and try to figure out what I was doing suspension wise. I still drive the car alot on the street, and they just can't hack that for very long before they stop working right. That and they were rally length struts. I bought some Tanabe Sustec Pro RR coilovers, which had very good reviews in Japanese magazines, very comparable to the Tein RAs. They are limited in adjustability, but that's fine with me, it's less for me to screw up.
I've done a bit power wise as well but that is documented elsewhere. I'm also running 245/45/16 Hoosier A3S03s. I'm doing the ProSolo event in Atlanta in a few weeks. I will not have the better suspension on the car then, but I will have a decent alignment. Decent for basically stock struts that is. There are some VERY good autocrossers signed up in SM there, two of the best in all of all autocross, so I will see exactly how I stand up at this point. I think the car will be good enough to compete nationally, but I'm not at that level as a driver yet. The Atlanta prosolo will basically be a test and tune for me of sorts, but I'm just going to have fun for the most part.
I won events locally, sometimes by a bit, but there is decent competition here. All of the guys I was slower than at the one Divisional I did also went to Nationals. Chris Raglin placed 7th, he was 3rd that event. You really just have to suck it up and drive at the larger events.
| roybfr | 01-22-2004 06:38 PM |
Yeah I know that 712's stink, but 2 years ago I was not auto-x and I was more concerned about getting longevity, for the street they have never done me wrong. The tires are off the wheels as I put on some all seasons for the winter so selling them should be cake, then I can get better tires.
I don't mind putting money into coilovers, though it was recomended that I drive the car with the prodrives this year (since I am a noob) and then look at getting a set of coilovers next season when I have a little more experiance under my belt.
I don't mind putting money into coilovers, though it was recomended that I drive the car with the prodrives this year (since I am a noob) and then look at getting a set of coilovers next season when I have a little more experiance under my belt.
| Scoobyslack1 | 01-23-2004 11:54 AM |
I definitely have to agree:
1. better tires
2. suspension
3. then power
but I would look at trying to do a drivers school, since your new at this you can stop any bad driving habits before they start :)
I haven't done a drivers school yet[SIZE=1](scheduling conflicts)[/SIZE] , but I still finished 2nd in SM for the season w/my 180hp car :rolleyes:
1. better tires
2. suspension
3. then power
but I would look at trying to do a drivers school, since your new at this you can stop any bad driving habits before they start :)
I haven't done a drivers school yet[SIZE=1](scheduling conflicts)[/SIZE] , but I still finished 2nd in SM for the season w/my 180hp car :rolleyes:
| roybfr | 01-23-2004 12:54 PM |
Cool thanks. My main concern was weahter or not a stock EJ205 (interally and heads wise) with the proper tires, suspension and driver would be competative in SM on a local and regional level, which seems to be a definite yes.
On a side not what would be a good cheap dedicated auto-x car to get to start out with. Cheap being the primary word. I am kinda thinking a honda civic hatchback, they are cheaper and there is a heap of after market stuff for them. That or an old L.
On a side not what would be a good cheap dedicated auto-x car to get to start out with. Cheap being the primary word. I am kinda thinking a honda civic hatchback, they are cheaper and there is a heap of after market stuff for them. That or an old L.
| Davenow | 01-25-2004 02:36 PM |
I disagree with drivingthe prodrives this year. If coilovers are going to be your final setup, then do it and learn on them.
Find out when/if Evolution autocross school is coming to your area. That is going to ake you faster than any mods from what I hear.
Find out when/if Evolution autocross school is coming to your area. That is going to ake you faster than any mods from what I hear.
| roybfr | 01-25-2004 07:43 PM |
Thanks, I will look in to that.
| MNbiker | 01-25-2004 09:19 PM |
Troy,
Are you planning to attend the first DMVR event March 21st at Sandpiper? If so, you should take a spin in my car, to get a better idea what it's like to drive a well-prepped Rex wagon. That should give you a better idea if you should spend more on the car or driver this year. ;)
-Steve
p.s. I wouldn't buy ANYTHING, until you get a few events under your belt & have a better perspective on the weaknesses of your car.
Are you planning to attend the first DMVR event March 21st at Sandpiper? If so, you should take a spin in my car, to get a better idea what it's like to drive a well-prepped Rex wagon. That should give you a better idea if you should spend more on the car or driver this year. ;)
-Steve
p.s. I wouldn't buy ANYTHING, until you get a few events under your belt & have a better perspective on the weaknesses of your car.
| roybfr | 01-25-2004 11:06 PM |
Yes I will be there, possible in a new car, I will know tomorrow. :D
Instead of SM I may be in A-Stock. Then the only thing I have to fret over is my driving and tires.
Instead of SM I may be in A-Stock. Then the only thing I have to fret over is my driving and tires.
| MNbiker | 01-26-2004 09:31 AM |
You thinking about an STi or EVO?
| roybfr | 01-26-2004 02:08 PM |
If all goes right an STi, they want to inspect my car first since it has been modded, which is fine as there are only two things I know of that they may not like (no injector green brackets being one of them). I put it back to stock this weekend asside form the uppipe, springs, VF30 (sold the stocker) and the STi injectors. The car runs good, and boy is it quiet, kinda nice.
The nice thing about running A-Stock is that will force me not to mod the car, I need some way to control my spending.
The nice thing about running A-Stock is that will force me not to mod the car, I need some way to control my spending.
| dwx | 01-26-2004 02:54 PM |
I seriously considered going that route but the car is too far gone really, so now it's firmly an SM car.
| Eric1855 | 01-26-2004 03:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scoobyslack1 [/i]
[B]I definitely have to agree:
1. better tires
2. suspension
3. then power
[/B][/QUOTE]
I would change that a bit to
1. Driver
2. Tires
3. Suspension
4. Power
The most time i ever took off of my times was after attending the Evolution school put on my Jean Kinser Dana. Having Mike Junior Johnson bomb ass in my car showed me ALOT and i went from middle of the pack to contending for a win in every event, and that was running street tires in SM. Now i got race tires and its all the world of difference.
[B]I definitely have to agree:
1. better tires
2. suspension
3. then power
[/B][/QUOTE]
I would change that a bit to
1. Driver
2. Tires
3. Suspension
4. Power
The most time i ever took off of my times was after attending the Evolution school put on my Jean Kinser Dana. Having Mike Junior Johnson bomb ass in my car showed me ALOT and i went from middle of the pack to contending for a win in every event, and that was running street tires in SM. Now i got race tires and its all the world of difference.
| Scoobyslack1 | 01-26-2004 04:49 PM |
Eric1885- you missed the rest of the message that recomended a driving school....that was the order of car modifications, not over-all prep for racing
| afpdl | 01-26-2004 05:06 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by roybfr[/i]
[B]
The nice thing about running A-Stock is that will force me not to mod the car, I need some way to control my spending. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah thats what I thought too.
Im in esp now
:(
[B]
The nice thing about running A-Stock is that will force me not to mod the car, I need some way to control my spending. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah thats what I thought too.
Im in esp now
:(
| roybfr | 01-26-2004 05:25 PM |
Why are you now in ESP?
| afpdl | 01-26-2004 05:28 PM |
Coilovers, dp, soon engine management.
I just didnt like how the car handled stock and I looked at esp with its lower pax and said what the hell. If they kick the sti out into bsp then its SM time.
I just didnt like how the car handled stock and I looked at esp with its lower pax and said what the hell. If they kick the sti out into bsp then its SM time.
| roybfr | 01-26-2004 05:40 PM |
There are seveal reason that will keep me sticking with the car is stock form. One is money, priorities are shifting and I would rather do other things then constantly pour several grand in to my car. Second is I like getting a new car every few years, so the closer it stays to stock the easier it is to trade in. Lastly is that I am a little of this a little of that type a guy, so by keeping the car stock I could got auto-x one weekend, rally-x the next and still be comferble enough for the ocasional road trip.
| Eric1855 | 01-26-2004 06:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scoobyslack1 [/i]
[B]Eric1885- you missed the rest of the message that recomended a driving school....that was the order of car modifications, not over-all prep for racing [/B][/QUOTE]
Ooops.
Sorry i was more just parusing the threads, not paying much attention.
[B]Eric1885- you missed the rest of the message that recomended a driving school....that was the order of car modifications, not over-all prep for racing [/B][/QUOTE]
Ooops.
Sorry i was more just parusing the threads, not paying much attention.
| MNbiker | 01-27-2004 08:16 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by roybfr [/i]
[B]If all goes right an STi, they want to inspect my car first since it has been modded, which is fine as there are only two things I know of that they may not like (no injector green brackets being one of them). I put it back to stock this weekend asside form the uppipe, springs, VF30 (sold the stocker) and the STi injectors. The car runs good, and boy is it quiet, kinda nice.
The nice thing about running A-Stock is that will force me not to mod the car, I need some way to control my spending. [/B][/QUOTE]
Good luck selling the Rex. A stock STi would be a lot simpler solution for you....assuming you can resist the urge to mod!:devil:
Let me know if you want to co-drive at Sailorville in March. I have a ProSolo in Topeka the following weekend, so I need as much seat time as possible.
-Steve
[B]If all goes right an STi, they want to inspect my car first since it has been modded, which is fine as there are only two things I know of that they may not like (no injector green brackets being one of them). I put it back to stock this weekend asside form the uppipe, springs, VF30 (sold the stocker) and the STi injectors. The car runs good, and boy is it quiet, kinda nice.
The nice thing about running A-Stock is that will force me not to mod the car, I need some way to control my spending. [/B][/QUOTE]
Good luck selling the Rex. A stock STi would be a lot simpler solution for you....assuming you can resist the urge to mod!:devil:
Let me know if you want to co-drive at Sailorville in March. I have a ProSolo in Topeka the following weekend, so I need as much seat time as possible.
-Steve
| roybfr | 01-27-2004 09:17 AM |
I would probably be up for that, then I can what the car can do in the hands of a good driver.
Troy
Troy
| Eric1855 | 01-27-2004 05:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Silver Bullet 02 [/i]
[B]You probably want to upgrade your susupension before anything else. I could see going through a set of race compound tires pretty quickly if you didn't have at least a larger front sway bar and a decent amount of negative camber up front. Get sway bars and coilovers. The Tein RA suspension is great for Auto-x but not good for daily driving, especially in weather under 40F (dump truck ride quality). Tein makes some other setups though that are softer and should be okay for local and maybe regional competition.
As mentioned earlier, a set of Kumho 710's (won't be out in our sizes until Summer), Kumho Victoracers or Hoosier A3S04's will do more for your times than any other mod. I would keep going with your current tires until you feel like you are getting the hang of driving (3-10 enents depending on your natural ability and previous experience) then graduate the the more expensive tires.
As far as power goes... I don't know that the bigger turbos help much on most courses. The National courses are a bit more open than any of the three regions I run at so its a toss up. I'm trying to talk a couple WRX friends into doing a test where we compare the following (all cars are 02 WRX's):
Data log time, velocity, and boost for running starts in second gear from 20-60mph, 25-60mph, 30-60mph and 35-60mph.
These are the three setups:
1. VF23, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
2. TD04, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
3. TD04, CAI, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
I codrove the car with the VF23 last year at one event and my times were about 1.5 seconds behind other drivers that I usually beat. Part of the problem was that my Hoosiers had given up the ghost but I wonder if turbo lag had anything to do with it? He car has 500 and 550 lb/in springs front and rear and Koni's and I have the Tein RA setup so that may have made some difference.
If we do this test I'll post the results and it should give you an idea at least about which turbo is best.
If I had a more torquey engine to put in my car I wouldn't hesitate to do it though as long as it wasn't causing a money issue.
Just saw your last post... if its a choice between the new engine and a good suspension and race tires then its a no brainer, at least in the short term... I would pick the suspension. [/B][/QUOTE]
that guy there is the epitome of driver over machine.
when his WRX was down he beat 80% of the SM times, and won PAX in an HS late 90s Nissan Altima automatic.
and i have to try to catch that.
[B]You probably want to upgrade your susupension before anything else. I could see going through a set of race compound tires pretty quickly if you didn't have at least a larger front sway bar and a decent amount of negative camber up front. Get sway bars and coilovers. The Tein RA suspension is great for Auto-x but not good for daily driving, especially in weather under 40F (dump truck ride quality). Tein makes some other setups though that are softer and should be okay for local and maybe regional competition.
As mentioned earlier, a set of Kumho 710's (won't be out in our sizes until Summer), Kumho Victoracers or Hoosier A3S04's will do more for your times than any other mod. I would keep going with your current tires until you feel like you are getting the hang of driving (3-10 enents depending on your natural ability and previous experience) then graduate the the more expensive tires.
As far as power goes... I don't know that the bigger turbos help much on most courses. The National courses are a bit more open than any of the three regions I run at so its a toss up. I'm trying to talk a couple WRX friends into doing a test where we compare the following (all cars are 02 WRX's):
Data log time, velocity, and boost for running starts in second gear from 20-60mph, 25-60mph, 30-60mph and 35-60mph.
These are the three setups:
1. VF23, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
2. TD04, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
3. TD04, CAI, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
I codrove the car with the VF23 last year at one event and my times were about 1.5 seconds behind other drivers that I usually beat. Part of the problem was that my Hoosiers had given up the ghost but I wonder if turbo lag had anything to do with it? He car has 500 and 550 lb/in springs front and rear and Koni's and I have the Tein RA setup so that may have made some difference.
If we do this test I'll post the results and it should give you an idea at least about which turbo is best.
If I had a more torquey engine to put in my car I wouldn't hesitate to do it though as long as it wasn't causing a money issue.
Just saw your last post... if its a choice between the new engine and a good suspension and race tires then its a no brainer, at least in the short term... I would pick the suspension. [/B][/QUOTE]
that guy there is the epitome of driver over machine.
when his WRX was down he beat 80% of the SM times, and won PAX in an HS late 90s Nissan Altima automatic.
and i have to try to catch that.
| Eric1855 | 01-27-2004 05:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Silver Bullet 02 [/i]
[B]You probably want to upgrade your susupension before anything else. I could see going through a set of race compound tires pretty quickly if you didn't have at least a larger front sway bar and a decent amount of negative camber up front. Get sway bars and coilovers. The Tein RA suspension is great for Auto-x but not good for daily driving, especially in weather under 40F (dump truck ride quality). Tein makes some other setups though that are softer and should be okay for local and maybe regional competition.
As mentioned earlier, a set of Kumho 710's (won't be out in our sizes until Summer), Kumho Victoracers or Hoosier A3S04's will do more for your times than any other mod. I would keep going with your current tires until you feel like you are getting the hang of driving (3-10 enents depending on your natural ability and previous experience) then graduate the the more expensive tires.
As far as power goes... I don't know that the bigger turbos help much on most courses. The National courses are a bit more open than any of the three regions I run at so its a toss up. I'm trying to talk a couple WRX friends into doing a test where we compare the following (all cars are 02 WRX's):
Data log time, velocity, and boost for running starts in second gear from 20-60mph, 25-60mph, 30-60mph and 35-60mph.
These are the three setups:
1. VF23, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
2. TD04, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
3. TD04, CAI, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
I codrove the car with the VF23 last year at one event and my times were about 1.5 seconds behind other drivers that I usually beat. Part of the problem was that my Hoosiers had given up the ghost but I wonder if turbo lag had anything to do with it? He car has 500 and 550 lb/in springs front and rear and Koni's and I have the Tein RA setup so that may have made some difference.
If we do this test I'll post the results and it should give you an idea at least about which turbo is best.
If I had a more torquey engine to put in my car I wouldn't hesitate to do it though as long as it wasn't causing a money issue.
Just saw your last post... if its a choice between the new engine and a good suspension and race tires then its a no brainer, at least in the short term... I would pick the suspension. [/B][/QUOTE]
that guy there is the epitome of driver over machine.
when his WRX was down he beat 80% of the SM times, and won PAX in an HS late 90s Nissan Altima automatic.
and i have to try to catch that.:D
[B]You probably want to upgrade your susupension before anything else. I could see going through a set of race compound tires pretty quickly if you didn't have at least a larger front sway bar and a decent amount of negative camber up front. Get sway bars and coilovers. The Tein RA suspension is great for Auto-x but not good for daily driving, especially in weather under 40F (dump truck ride quality). Tein makes some other setups though that are softer and should be okay for local and maybe regional competition.
As mentioned earlier, a set of Kumho 710's (won't be out in our sizes until Summer), Kumho Victoracers or Hoosier A3S04's will do more for your times than any other mod. I would keep going with your current tires until you feel like you are getting the hang of driving (3-10 enents depending on your natural ability and previous experience) then graduate the the more expensive tires.
As far as power goes... I don't know that the bigger turbos help much on most courses. The National courses are a bit more open than any of the three regions I run at so its a toss up. I'm trying to talk a couple WRX friends into doing a test where we compare the following (all cars are 02 WRX's):
Data log time, velocity, and boost for running starts in second gear from 20-60mph, 25-60mph, 30-60mph and 35-60mph.
These are the three setups:
1. VF23, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
2. TD04, header, gutted intake, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
3. TD04, CAI, catless uppipe, turbo back, Unichip, stock tranny
I codrove the car with the VF23 last year at one event and my times were about 1.5 seconds behind other drivers that I usually beat. Part of the problem was that my Hoosiers had given up the ghost but I wonder if turbo lag had anything to do with it? He car has 500 and 550 lb/in springs front and rear and Koni's and I have the Tein RA setup so that may have made some difference.
If we do this test I'll post the results and it should give you an idea at least about which turbo is best.
If I had a more torquey engine to put in my car I wouldn't hesitate to do it though as long as it wasn't causing a money issue.
Just saw your last post... if its a choice between the new engine and a good suspension and race tires then its a no brainer, at least in the short term... I would pick the suspension. [/B][/QUOTE]
that guy there is the epitome of driver over machine.
when his WRX was down he beat 80% of the SM times, and won PAX in an HS late 90s Nissan Altima automatic.
and i have to try to catch that.:D
| bcblues | 01-27-2004 09:58 PM |
A-Stock to control your spending? hahahahahahaha
Dem Hoosiers get expensive. :eek:
Dem Hoosiers get expensive. :eek:
| roybfr | 01-27-2004 10:22 PM |
Well that is just tires. ;) The do wear out. Trust me after the verbal abuse I got from my wife for getting a new car I need to be a good boy for a while.
| MNbiker | 01-28-2004 09:17 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bcblues [/i]
[B]A-Stock to control your spending? hahahahahahaha
Dem Hoosiers get expensive. :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, but since we're just talkin' regional events for a new driver, the stock tires would be fine (and easier to learn on) for a while. After that, a single set of Kumho Victoracers would likely last Troy a whole season.
-Steve
[B]A-Stock to control your spending? hahahahahahaha
Dem Hoosiers get expensive. :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, but since we're just talkin' regional events for a new driver, the stock tires would be fine (and easier to learn on) for a while. After that, a single set of Kumho Victoracers would likely last Troy a whole season.
-Steve
| roybfr | 02-01-2004 02:26 AM |
Just an update, it's OT but oh well
STI is in the house. Actually sitting out side the house to get technical.
OMG I am in love and I have not even got on it yet, got to break it in proper of course.
One thing I am wondering thought is what he best DCCD setting will be for autox. I kind think that Manual in the 35/65 would be best since there would be some perdictability vs Auto.
STI is in the house. Actually sitting out side the house to get technical.
OMG I am in love and I have not even got on it yet, got to break it in proper of course.
One thing I am wondering thought is what he best DCCD setting will be for autox. I kind think that Manual in the 35/65 would be best since there would be some perdictability vs Auto.
| afpdl | 02-01-2004 02:48 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by roybfr[/i]
[B] Just an update, it's OT but oh well
STI is in the house. Actually sitting out side the house to get technical.
OMG I am in love and I have not even got on it yet, got to break it in proper of course.
One thing I am wondering thought is what he best DCCD setting will be for autox. I kind think that Manual in the 35/65 would be best since there would be some perdictability vs Auto. [/B][/QUOTE]
I never leave it in autox as I hate it. But I also hate full open, everyone is different but I like it at about 40%lock. Which is still 35/65, the controller varies center diff lock ratio not how much power is sent to the front or rear.
[B] Just an update, it's OT but oh well
STI is in the house. Actually sitting out side the house to get technical.
OMG I am in love and I have not even got on it yet, got to break it in proper of course.
One thing I am wondering thought is what he best DCCD setting will be for autox. I kind think that Manual in the 35/65 would be best since there would be some perdictability vs Auto. [/B][/QUOTE]
I never leave it in autox as I hate it. But I also hate full open, everyone is different but I like it at about 40%lock. Which is still 35/65, the controller varies center diff lock ratio not how much power is sent to the front or rear.
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