| MrBaggio | 08-12-2003 11:01 PM |
D stock autoX
�
�
I went to my first autoX event this past weekend. I am in the DS class and I was looking around at the other cars on the grid and it seemed that some had minor mods. Was I just mistakin or are we allowed some mods in DS. I read the scca rules and it seems like stock meant STOCK ie no changes at all.
Whats the deal? what sort of mods can I do that will allow me to stay in DS.
Whats the deal? what sort of mods can I do that will allow me to stay in DS.
| adhowe70 | 08-12-2003 11:19 PM |
You can change shocks, but not springs.
Front sway bar, but not rear sway bar.
Wheels, but they must be factory diameter, width and offset (6mm tolerance on offset).
Tires, but must be DOT legal and fit without illegal modifications.
You can change exhaust after the LAST catalytic converter but nothing before.
You can change spark plugs, air filter, oil filter, oil and almost anything else that is normally considered "expendable."
You can optimize the alignment, but the use of camber bolts is NOT approved by Subaru and thus not Stock class legal.
You can run any generally available pump gasoline approved for street use.
You can't do anything else. Or at least not much else. The rule book, section 13, states what you can do. Anything outside of that is not legal.
Andrew Howe
G Stock 2.5RS
Front sway bar, but not rear sway bar.
Wheels, but they must be factory diameter, width and offset (6mm tolerance on offset).
Tires, but must be DOT legal and fit without illegal modifications.
You can change exhaust after the LAST catalytic converter but nothing before.
You can change spark plugs, air filter, oil filter, oil and almost anything else that is normally considered "expendable."
You can optimize the alignment, but the use of camber bolts is NOT approved by Subaru and thus not Stock class legal.
You can run any generally available pump gasoline approved for street use.
You can't do anything else. Or at least not much else. The rule book, section 13, states what you can do. Anything outside of that is not legal.
Andrew Howe
G Stock 2.5RS
| STX_REX | 08-13-2003 06:03 AM |
Adhowe70 pretty much covered it as far as modifications are concerned. One thing to note, any "DOT Legal Tire", this means in order to be fast, you must run Race Compound tires in the stock classes.
Later,
Andy
Later,
Andy
| KC | 08-13-2003 08:02 AM |
Re: D stock autoX
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MrBaggio [/i]
[B]I read the scca rules and it seems like stock meant STOCK ie no changes at all. Whats the deal? what sort of mods can I do that will allow me to stay in DS. [/B][/QUOTE]Which rules did you read? It's outlined pretty well in the rules that there are things you can change/mod.
Check out the Moutons site for the stock rules:
[url]http://moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/stock.html#s13[/url]
That site has the up to date rules for Stock, Street Prepared and STS/STX along with the car classifications for Stock/SP.
--kC
[B]I read the scca rules and it seems like stock meant STOCK ie no changes at all. Whats the deal? what sort of mods can I do that will allow me to stay in DS. [/B][/QUOTE]Which rules did you read? It's outlined pretty well in the rules that there are things you can change/mod.
Check out the Moutons site for the stock rules:
[url]http://moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/stock.html#s13[/url]
That site has the up to date rules for Stock, Street Prepared and STS/STX along with the car classifications for Stock/SP.
--kC
| MrBaggio | 08-13-2003 11:09 AM |
I know nothing about what makes a good tire. I am on stock tires right now.
What do you mean by compound tires?
What are the different types of tires?
What do you mean by compound tires?
What are the different types of tires?
| thrdeye | 08-13-2003 11:12 AM |
one thing to add.
The wrx DOES have camber bolts in the front. Not in the rear however.
The wrx DOES have camber bolts in the front. Not in the rear however.
| MrBaggio | 08-13-2003 11:23 AM |
what do they look like
| Coati | 08-13-2003 11:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MrBaggio [/i]
[B]I know nothing about what makes a good tire. I am on stock tires right now.
What do you mean by compound tires?
What are the different types of tires? [/B][/QUOTE]
If you go to [url]www.tirerack.com,[/url] you'll see they grade tires by performance level (touring, high-performance, ultra-high-performance, max-performance, competition, etc.). You'll also see that your stock tires are not exactly in the highest-performance bracket.
Some of the autocrossers you saw probably have [i]competition[/i] tires (eg, Hoosiers, some Kumhos, some Yokohamas, etc). These tires are designed for autocrossing (or track days) ONLY, and you'd wear them out in no time on the street.
However, there are tires that are very high-performing on autcrosses (eg, Azenis, S-03, KD) that are perfectly good street tires, so long as you dont try to drive them in the snow or (in some cases) heavy rainstorms at high speed. These tires dont last as long as your stock ones, usually, but they last long enough to be considered road tires for people who want every last bit of dry performance out of their car.
There are also tires (eg Kumho 712, some Yokohamas) that aren't quite up at the dry top tier, but are very good road tires that will still allow you to have fun at an autocross without feeling like you're driving a gravel rally (the way your stock Bridgestone RE-92s feel at an autocross).:lol:
[B]I know nothing about what makes a good tire. I am on stock tires right now.
What do you mean by compound tires?
What are the different types of tires? [/B][/QUOTE]
If you go to [url]www.tirerack.com,[/url] you'll see they grade tires by performance level (touring, high-performance, ultra-high-performance, max-performance, competition, etc.). You'll also see that your stock tires are not exactly in the highest-performance bracket.
Some of the autocrossers you saw probably have [i]competition[/i] tires (eg, Hoosiers, some Kumhos, some Yokohamas, etc). These tires are designed for autocrossing (or track days) ONLY, and you'd wear them out in no time on the street.
However, there are tires that are very high-performing on autcrosses (eg, Azenis, S-03, KD) that are perfectly good street tires, so long as you dont try to drive them in the snow or (in some cases) heavy rainstorms at high speed. These tires dont last as long as your stock ones, usually, but they last long enough to be considered road tires for people who want every last bit of dry performance out of their car.
There are also tires (eg Kumho 712, some Yokohamas) that aren't quite up at the dry top tier, but are very good road tires that will still allow you to have fun at an autocross without feeling like you're driving a gravel rally (the way your stock Bridgestone RE-92s feel at an autocross).:lol:
| MNbiker | 08-13-2003 11:30 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MrBaggio [/i]
[B]I know nothing about what makes a good tire. I am on stock tires right now.
What do you mean by compound tires?
What are the different types of tires? [/B][/QUOTE]
R-compound tires are nominally street-legal race tires. Virtually all competitive Stock Class cars use them. These tires aren't really street tires, and most competitors have race wheels and street wheels. Examples include: Kumho Victoracer V700, Kumho Ecsta V700, and Hoosier A3S03.
Many SCCA regions have true "street tire" classes, which require real street tires, similar to those required for STS/STX classes. Street Tire classes are a great place to start, as you can be more competitive with a truly stock vehicle. Top tires for Street Tire classes include Falken Azenis, BF Goodrich KD, and Kumho Ecsta MX.
If you're just starting out, I'd recommend using your stock RE-92's for now. You probably won't be competitive at first anyway, so you might save the tire/wheel expense until you're sure you want to continue autocrossing. If that happens, you'll find PLENTY of things to spend money on! :p
-Steve
[B]I know nothing about what makes a good tire. I am on stock tires right now.
What do you mean by compound tires?
What are the different types of tires? [/B][/QUOTE]
R-compound tires are nominally street-legal race tires. Virtually all competitive Stock Class cars use them. These tires aren't really street tires, and most competitors have race wheels and street wheels. Examples include: Kumho Victoracer V700, Kumho Ecsta V700, and Hoosier A3S03.
Many SCCA regions have true "street tire" classes, which require real street tires, similar to those required for STS/STX classes. Street Tire classes are a great place to start, as you can be more competitive with a truly stock vehicle. Top tires for Street Tire classes include Falken Azenis, BF Goodrich KD, and Kumho Ecsta MX.
If you're just starting out, I'd recommend using your stock RE-92's for now. You probably won't be competitive at first anyway, so you might save the tire/wheel expense until you're sure you want to continue autocrossing. If that happens, you'll find PLENTY of things to spend money on! :p
-Steve
| STX_REX | 08-13-2003 12:16 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker [/i]
[B]
If that happens, you'll find PLENTY of things to spend money on! :p
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
That aint no joke! If you have monk like self control and a pliable ego, you'll be able to stay in a stock class, and reasonably limit youre expenditures. Otherwise, you will become a parts fiend. You'll justify you're spending with statements like "my kids are pretty smart they should be able to get scholarships". You'll tell the wife "well with my current spring rates these dampers are just plain unsafe". You'll take the family on summer vactions to wonderful scenic dowtown Topeka Kansas
[B]
If that happens, you'll find PLENTY of things to spend money on! :p
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
That aint no joke! If you have monk like self control and a pliable ego, you'll be able to stay in a stock class, and reasonably limit youre expenditures. Otherwise, you will become a parts fiend. You'll justify you're spending with statements like "my kids are pretty smart they should be able to get scholarships". You'll tell the wife "well with my current spring rates these dampers are just plain unsafe". You'll take the family on summer vactions to wonderful scenic dowtown Topeka Kansas
| MrBaggio | 08-13-2003 12:16 PM |
Thanks for the great info guys.
I plan on staying with my stock tire until they are pretty worn out. I am on a tight budget right now being a student and all so performance tires will have to wait. My all the info is good so that i can make the right choice when it is time to upgrade.
If anyone has any addition info i welcome that also
I plan on staying with my stock tire until they are pretty worn out. I am on a tight budget right now being a student and all so performance tires will have to wait. My all the info is good so that i can make the right choice when it is time to upgrade.
If anyone has any addition info i welcome that also
| Butt Dyno | 08-13-2003 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MrBaggio [/i]
[B]Thanks for the great info guys.
I plan on staying with my stock tire until they are pretty worn out. I am on a tight budget right now being a student and all so performance tires will have to wait. My all the info is good so that i can make the right choice when it is time to upgrade.
If anyone has any addition info i welcome that also [/B][/QUOTE]
Don't worry, I'll be right there with you in the WDCR with the RE92's for a few autox's yet :) As someone pointed out a while ago, they should actually get a little better for autox with age as the tread blocks wear down. Just make sure you inflate them properly. I run 43/49 F/R and it has worked out OK. Some people run something more like 43/38. Apparently it's a "driver style" thing but things felt better with the rears pumped up high for me.
A 2nd set of stock wheels + tires is usually $250-300 so it isn't that bad to get new ones if you thrash your current set. But I have had 8-9 autox's on mine and things are still relatively peachy.
-bd
[B]Thanks for the great info guys.
I plan on staying with my stock tire until they are pretty worn out. I am on a tight budget right now being a student and all so performance tires will have to wait. My all the info is good so that i can make the right choice when it is time to upgrade.
If anyone has any addition info i welcome that also [/B][/QUOTE]
Don't worry, I'll be right there with you in the WDCR with the RE92's for a few autox's yet :) As someone pointed out a while ago, they should actually get a little better for autox with age as the tread blocks wear down. Just make sure you inflate them properly. I run 43/49 F/R and it has worked out OK. Some people run something more like 43/38. Apparently it's a "driver style" thing but things felt better with the rears pumped up high for me.
A 2nd set of stock wheels + tires is usually $250-300 so it isn't that bad to get new ones if you thrash your current set. But I have had 8-9 autox's on mine and things are still relatively peachy.
-bd
| MrBaggio | 08-13-2003 01:39 PM |
Bd you at fedex you had the blue wrx and wore a yellow shirt??? is that right? I think you were just a few cars down from me in the grid.
I ran about the same pressure as you also but I think im going to drop a little off the from for the next autoX to try and get more grip up front. It felt like my front end was plowing a bit more than I wanted.
I ran about the same pressure as you also but I think im going to drop a little off the from for the next autoX to try and get more grip up front. It felt like my front end was plowing a bit more than I wanted.
| Butt Dyno | 08-13-2003 01:45 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MrBaggio [/i]
[B]Bd you at fedex you had the blue wrx and wore a yellow shirt??? is that right? I think you were just a few cars down from me in the grid.
I ran about the same pressure as you also but I think im going to drop a little off the from for the next autoX to try and get more grip up front. It felt like my front end was plowing a bit more than I wanted. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep - that is my Kartboy "human caution flag" shirt :banana:
I thought I said hi to all the WRX's... there was a blue one w/ Saunders' friend, Bill's blue one, Jon's white wagon, and there's the red one with R-tires (Andre?)
OK so looking at the results I guess you are Saunders' friend, hi :)
-bd
[B]Bd you at fedex you had the blue wrx and wore a yellow shirt??? is that right? I think you were just a few cars down from me in the grid.
I ran about the same pressure as you also but I think im going to drop a little off the from for the next autoX to try and get more grip up front. It felt like my front end was plowing a bit more than I wanted. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep - that is my Kartboy "human caution flag" shirt :banana:
I thought I said hi to all the WRX's... there was a blue one w/ Saunders' friend, Bill's blue one, Jon's white wagon, and there's the red one with R-tires (Andre?)
OK so looking at the results I guess you are Saunders' friend, hi :)
-bd
| TheWake | 08-13-2003 01:59 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ButtDyno [/i]
[B]
Don't worry, I'll be right there with you in the WDCR with the RE92's for a few autox's yet :) As someone pointed out a while ago, they should actually get a little better for autox with age as the tread blocks wear down. Just make sure you inflate them properly. I run 43/49 F/R and it has worked out OK. Some people run something more like 43/38. Apparently it's a "driver style" thing but things felt better with the rears pumped up high for me.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I still abuse my RE-92's at SJ's auto-x's. They are almost gone though. I'll need to replace them very soon. I'll most likely stick with streetable tires even though I am also in DS. I just can't justify spending all the money on competition tires and wheels just for the fun I am having. Besides if I ever want to move to STX, I don't want to have to buy new tires. I'll be trying to inflate my tires to about the 43/38 mark this weekend.
[B]
Don't worry, I'll be right there with you in the WDCR with the RE92's for a few autox's yet :) As someone pointed out a while ago, they should actually get a little better for autox with age as the tread blocks wear down. Just make sure you inflate them properly. I run 43/49 F/R and it has worked out OK. Some people run something more like 43/38. Apparently it's a "driver style" thing but things felt better with the rears pumped up high for me.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I still abuse my RE-92's at SJ's auto-x's. They are almost gone though. I'll need to replace them very soon. I'll most likely stick with streetable tires even though I am also in DS. I just can't justify spending all the money on competition tires and wheels just for the fun I am having. Besides if I ever want to move to STX, I don't want to have to buy new tires. I'll be trying to inflate my tires to about the 43/38 mark this weekend.
| MrBaggio | 08-13-2003 02:12 PM |
Bd,
Yes I am saunders friend also in the blue wrx. He said something about you putting ice on your IC between runs. Did that help any??
my name is justin by the way
I finished 14th in a 15 man race :( , but it was my first ever event so I'm not bothered to much. My times will improve with practice.
Yes I am saunders friend also in the blue wrx. He said something about you putting ice on your IC between runs. Did that help any??
my name is justin by the way
I finished 14th in a 15 man race :( , but it was my first ever event so I'm not bothered to much. My times will improve with practice.
| Butt Dyno | 08-13-2003 02:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MrBaggio [/i]
[B]Bd,
Yes I am saunders friend also in the blue wrx. He said something about you putting ice on your IC between runs. Did that help any??
my name is justin by the way
I finished 14th in a 15 man race :( , but it was my first ever event so I'm not bothered to much. My times will improve with practice. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ah hey..
As far as the ice on the IC, I thought I'd try it since I always have a cooler full of ice blocks with me anyway. Can't hurt right? Except it appears to have very slightly bent some of the IC fins - didn't know they were that sensitive! I'd better get a front mount :) The more ghetto thing to do would be to get one of those little water spritzer things that they have at the Hair Cuttery and have your own handheld "intercooler spray". The ice blocks are too big for the size of the IC anyway so it wasn't sitting flush against the actual top of the IC.
Anyhoo - just figured it might help heatsoak. Didn't feel any difference though, since my driving is still too big a variable at this point...
cya at the events,
john
[B]Bd,
Yes I am saunders friend also in the blue wrx. He said something about you putting ice on your IC between runs. Did that help any??
my name is justin by the way
I finished 14th in a 15 man race :( , but it was my first ever event so I'm not bothered to much. My times will improve with practice. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ah hey..
As far as the ice on the IC, I thought I'd try it since I always have a cooler full of ice blocks with me anyway. Can't hurt right? Except it appears to have very slightly bent some of the IC fins - didn't know they were that sensitive! I'd better get a front mount :) The more ghetto thing to do would be to get one of those little water spritzer things that they have at the Hair Cuttery and have your own handheld "intercooler spray". The ice blocks are too big for the size of the IC anyway so it wasn't sitting flush against the actual top of the IC.
Anyhoo - just figured it might help heatsoak. Didn't feel any difference though, since my driving is still too big a variable at this point...
cya at the events,
john
| adhowe70 | 08-13-2003 09:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thrdeye [/i]
[B]one thing to add.
The wrx DOES have camber bolts in the front. Not in the rear however. [/B][/QUOTE]
True... I should have been more specific. Crash bolts (an alternate camber bolt or a second camber bolt used to put the car within factory specs after an accident) are not allowed. Some other makes allow them, Subaru does not.
Andrew
[B]one thing to add.
The wrx DOES have camber bolts in the front. Not in the rear however. [/B][/QUOTE]
True... I should have been more specific. Crash bolts (an alternate camber bolt or a second camber bolt used to put the car within factory specs after an accident) are not allowed. Some other makes allow them, Subaru does not.
Andrew
| MrBaggio | 08-13-2003 11:19 PM |
how do you adjust the camber bolts.
| adhowe70 | 08-13-2003 11:30 PM |
You take the front wheels off and look at the strut. You'll find two big bolts that hold the hub assembly to the strut. The bottom one is a round bolt and the top one is the camber adjusting bolt.
Loosen both of these and then turn the top one until the camber is what you want it to be. Tighten them down and put the wheels back on.
Be careful when doing this if you don't have any alignment equipment. It can be easy for the novice to mess up and get alignment settings that are not at all what you wanted to have.
Andrew
Loosen both of these and then turn the top one until the camber is what you want it to be. Tighten them down and put the wheels back on.
Be careful when doing this if you don't have any alignment equipment. It can be easy for the novice to mess up and get alignment settings that are not at all what you wanted to have.
Andrew
| leecea | 08-14-2003 10:09 AM |
I wasn't sure how that camber bolt thingy worked either, so I actually removed the top bolt to figure out which way it needed to be aligned to push the top of the wheel in. It was pretty obvious how to do it once I looked at the bolt. One more thing is to push the top of the wheel carrier as far in as possible after you've turned the camber bolt. Since the top hole is bigger than the bolt, it gives you a bit more neg camber.
Then take it to get aligned.
Even with all that, I was only able to get something like 1 deg on one side and 0.8 deg on the other. I was expecting more!
Also: these bolts are in pretty tight, so be prepared with a decent socket and extension bar. You should also have a torque wrench and reset them to something like 120 ft/lbs.
Then take it to get aligned.
Even with all that, I was only able to get something like 1 deg on one side and 0.8 deg on the other. I was expecting more!
Also: these bolts are in pretty tight, so be prepared with a decent socket and extension bar. You should also have a torque wrench and reset them to something like 120 ft/lbs.
| dmitrik4 | 08-15-2003 12:08 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MrBaggio [/i]
[B]Thanks for the great info guys.
I plan on staying with my stock tire until they are pretty worn out. I am on a tight budget right now being a student and all so performance tires will have to wait. My all the info is good so that i can make the right choice when it is time to upgrade.
If anyone has any addition info i welcome that also [/B][/QUOTE]
that's a good decision. keep your car the same until your driving is pretty consistent (it's taken me about 9 months), then start changing things. makes the learning curve much easier if you are learning on the same car every time.
besides, now that i've gone to race tires, i don't know if i can ever go back to streets. but i don't have the $$ for SP. help! :lol:
mike
444HS
[B]Thanks for the great info guys.
I plan on staying with my stock tire until they are pretty worn out. I am on a tight budget right now being a student and all so performance tires will have to wait. My all the info is good so that i can make the right choice when it is time to upgrade.
If anyone has any addition info i welcome that also [/B][/QUOTE]
that's a good decision. keep your car the same until your driving is pretty consistent (it's taken me about 9 months), then start changing things. makes the learning curve much easier if you are learning on the same car every time.
besides, now that i've gone to race tires, i don't know if i can ever go back to streets. but i don't have the $$ for SP. help! :lol:
mike
444HS
| Machine | 08-15-2003 04:22 PM |
Hey BD,
Careful with that ghetto comment! :p You're hitting a little too close to home!
I used a handheld sprayer (one of those deck sprayers) at the Rosecroft event. I brought it to keep the Azenis cool (they get "greasy" when hot). I sprayed the intercooler down, but that's only effective for a few seconds. I'm sure it's gone before I even get to the start line.
Justin, I was the OTHER WRB WRX at FedEx D41. Sorry we didn't get to chat more. I was busy jonesing that I finally got the car set up nice and balanced. I've been pushing like a pig and trying to sort that out for about 4 autox's now. Say hi at the next event.
Bill
Careful with that ghetto comment! :p You're hitting a little too close to home!
I used a handheld sprayer (one of those deck sprayers) at the Rosecroft event. I brought it to keep the Azenis cool (they get "greasy" when hot). I sprayed the intercooler down, but that's only effective for a few seconds. I'm sure it's gone before I even get to the start line.
Justin, I was the OTHER WRB WRX at FedEx D41. Sorry we didn't get to chat more. I was busy jonesing that I finally got the car set up nice and balanced. I've been pushing like a pig and trying to sort that out for about 4 autox's now. Say hi at the next event.
Bill
| Machine | 08-15-2003 04:29 PM |
Justin,
I give you props for not finishing DFL in your first autox. Just staying on course is a success.
There's enough DS WRX's on RE92's and other street tires in the WDCR to get a good feel how you're doing relative to each other. Tweak the air pressures a bit for balance, then focus on your driving. At this level, driving better will improve your time in big chunks, car setup only gives minor improvements.
See you on the 14th?
Bill
I give you props for not finishing DFL in your first autox. Just staying on course is a success.
There's enough DS WRX's on RE92's and other street tires in the WDCR to get a good feel how you're doing relative to each other. Tweak the air pressures a bit for balance, then focus on your driving. At this level, driving better will improve your time in big chunks, car setup only gives minor improvements.
See you on the 14th?
Bill
| WRX-ECE | 08-16-2003 09:20 AM |
Another good choice is those lawn sprayers. They are $9 at Home Depot. If you don't think they will work, try touching your intercooler in between runs, it'll burn you. Hit it with the water and it feels cool!!! Do it soon enough to launch time and it should help alot.
And, it definately helps the Azinas stay usable too.
More on topic, I would stay away from R tires untill you can say you are really into this sport. They are expensive, don;t last for crap and are useless for anything else. And if you do feel your into DS for a while, at least wait till your getting good and consistant.
My fist year I bought Kumho ecsta 712s cause I couldn't afford to run two sets of tires/rims. They were OK and great daily tires. This year I got another set of stock rims and switched to Azinas, worlds better on the course. BUT, this last race I got lazy and didn't feel like changing them off, only to hit a downpoor on the way home. It was scary as hell trying to navigate the car with the Azinas on.
And, it definately helps the Azinas stay usable too.
More on topic, I would stay away from R tires untill you can say you are really into this sport. They are expensive, don;t last for crap and are useless for anything else. And if you do feel your into DS for a while, at least wait till your getting good and consistant.
My fist year I bought Kumho ecsta 712s cause I couldn't afford to run two sets of tires/rims. They were OK and great daily tires. This year I got another set of stock rims and switched to Azinas, worlds better on the course. BUT, this last race I got lazy and didn't feel like changing them off, only to hit a downpoor on the way home. It was scary as hell trying to navigate the car with the Azinas on.
| MrBaggio | 08-16-2003 03:44 PM |
I think WRX-ECE and Machine are right, Its too early for R compound (I dont even really know what they are :P ) Like I said I will stay stock for as long as I can. I want to improve my driving before I mess with the car. Cause thats where the problem is now. Until the car reaches its limit its on me to get better.
Bill I do remember you I think you were one or two cars down from me on the grid. I going to do my best to get out there on the 14, I will let you know when I know for sure. I had a blast and want to do it again NOW!!!
I'm happy with how I did at my first autoX. I didn't expect to be even close to the top. I just wanted to learn and I did do that. I know where I can make improvements so I'm ready for next time :)
Do you check the Mid-A board here also? There are a bunch of guys posting there from fedex
Bill I do remember you I think you were one or two cars down from me on the grid. I going to do my best to get out there on the 14, I will let you know when I know for sure. I had a blast and want to do it again NOW!!!
I'm happy with how I did at my first autoX. I didn't expect to be even close to the top. I just wanted to learn and I did do that. I know where I can make improvements so I'm ready for next time :)
Do you check the Mid-A board here also? There are a bunch of guys posting there from fedex
| Machine | 08-17-2003 01:18 PM |
Yep, That was me at FedEx. Also, the MidAtlantic Forums a regular hangout for most locals.
Hope to see you on the 14th. I'm sneaking in another autox down in Richmond next weekend. Lucky me! :D
Bill
Hope to see you on the 14th. I'm sneaking in another autox down in Richmond next weekend. Lucky me! :D
Bill
| Butt Dyno | 08-17-2003 01:56 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Machine [/i]
[B]Yep, That was me at FedEx. Also, the MidAtlantic Forums a regular hangout for most locals.
Hope to see you on the 14th. I'm sneaking in another autox down in Richmond next weekend. Lucky me! :D
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey - I'll be at that autox on the 24th too - cya there :)
-bd
[B]Yep, That was me at FedEx. Also, the MidAtlantic Forums a regular hangout for most locals.
Hope to see you on the 14th. I'm sneaking in another autox down in Richmond next weekend. Lucky me! :D
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey - I'll be at that autox on the 24th too - cya there :)
-bd
| jbrennen | 08-18-2003 08:44 AM |
If you are running street tires in a Stock class, you are at a big disadvantage to those competitors running R compound tires.
I drove R compound tires for the first time last week at the WDCR autoX. I felt like a blind man who could suddenly see for the first time. ;) They [b]are[/b] that much better than street tires.
As for what R compound tires are, or where to buy them... Go to [url]www.tirerack.com[/url] and search for Competition tires for your car.
If you go with R compound tires, be sure to get the largest width tire that fits your car, with the shortest sidewall possible. And you should also set the car up with the maximum achievable negative camber all around -- if you thought your car had a lot of body roll on street tires, wait until you see what it does on R compound tires.
I drove R compound tires for the first time last week at the WDCR autoX. I felt like a blind man who could suddenly see for the first time. ;) They [b]are[/b] that much better than street tires.
As for what R compound tires are, or where to buy them... Go to [url]www.tirerack.com[/url] and search for Competition tires for your car.
If you go with R compound tires, be sure to get the largest width tire that fits your car, with the shortest sidewall possible. And you should also set the car up with the maximum achievable negative camber all around -- if you thought your car had a lot of body roll on street tires, wait until you see what it does on R compound tires.
| KC | 08-18-2003 08:56 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jbrennen [/i]
[B]And you should also set the car up with the maximum achievable negative camber all around [/B][/QUOTE]Ummm you mean the front. Rear is not adjustable. ;) Also, if you can (by pushing on the strut to tilt it inboard more) you want to dial OUT negative camber in the rear to get more rotation. With stickier tires, the rear will stay planted with more rear camber... which is not condusive to rotation. This is more of a problem on concrete than it is asphalt tho.
--KC
[B]And you should also set the car up with the maximum achievable negative camber all around [/B][/QUOTE]Ummm you mean the front. Rear is not adjustable. ;) Also, if you can (by pushing on the strut to tilt it inboard more) you want to dial OUT negative camber in the rear to get more rotation. With stickier tires, the rear will stay planted with more rear camber... which is not condusive to rotation. This is more of a problem on concrete than it is asphalt tho.
--KC
| jbrennen | 08-18-2003 10:24 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Ummm you mean the front. Rear is not adjustable. ;) Also, if you can (by pushing on the strut to tilt it inboard more) you want to dial OUT negative camber in the rear to get more rotation. With stickier tires, the rear will stay planted with more rear camber... which is not condusive to rotation.[/B][/QUOTE]
Okay, rear not adjustable on a D Stock Subaru -- my mistake.
However, on my car, where the rear camber is adjustable, I run minimum negative camber on the rears if I'm autoXing street tires -- like you said, to get the car to rotate better.
But on really sticky tires like Hoosiers, I run maximum negative camber. With the higher cornering speeds (and body roll) possible on Hoosiers, if I were to run minimum rear negative camber, I'd basically be cornering the car on the outside shoulder of the rear tire -- it would rotate better, but I'm not sure I'd like the result...
Based on one event on Hoosiers, the car had much less push on Hoosiers with -1.5 degrees rear camber than the same car on stock tires with -0.5 degrees rear camber. And the one time that I did get oversteer (rotation), it was "terminal" oversteer under braking which resulted in a spin. I'd hate to think how easy the car might be to spin out with only -0.5 degrees rear camber.
If a car with maximum rear camber is pushing on R compound tires, dialing in some slight rear toe-out would probably cure the push without giving up lateral grip.
[B]Ummm you mean the front. Rear is not adjustable. ;) Also, if you can (by pushing on the strut to tilt it inboard more) you want to dial OUT negative camber in the rear to get more rotation. With stickier tires, the rear will stay planted with more rear camber... which is not condusive to rotation.[/B][/QUOTE]
Okay, rear not adjustable on a D Stock Subaru -- my mistake.
However, on my car, where the rear camber is adjustable, I run minimum negative camber on the rears if I'm autoXing street tires -- like you said, to get the car to rotate better.
But on really sticky tires like Hoosiers, I run maximum negative camber. With the higher cornering speeds (and body roll) possible on Hoosiers, if I were to run minimum rear negative camber, I'd basically be cornering the car on the outside shoulder of the rear tire -- it would rotate better, but I'm not sure I'd like the result...
Based on one event on Hoosiers, the car had much less push on Hoosiers with -1.5 degrees rear camber than the same car on stock tires with -0.5 degrees rear camber. And the one time that I did get oversteer (rotation), it was "terminal" oversteer under braking which resulted in a spin. I'd hate to think how easy the car might be to spin out with only -0.5 degrees rear camber.
If a car with maximum rear camber is pushing on R compound tires, dialing in some slight rear toe-out would probably cure the push without giving up lateral grip.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét