| Draken | 04-24-2006 04:33 PM |
Data Logging Advice
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I would like advice on selecting a data logger. I am fairly active in autox and time trials, and will be working with a new car later in the year. So I'm going after some better methodology during test n tunes. Here are my specs:
-I have a race car
-I have a laptop
-I don't want to spend $texas
-I'm not completly retarded, but close to it
Go!
Chris H.
EDIT: I'm not looking to data log stuff from my engine management. I'm looking for autox and track day logging, gps positioning, blah blah blah.
-I have a race car
-I have a laptop
-I don't want to spend $texas
-I'm not completly retarded, but close to it
Go!
Chris H.
EDIT: I'm not looking to data log stuff from my engine management. I'm looking for autox and track day logging, gps positioning, blah blah blah.
| spazegun2213 | 04-24-2006 04:37 PM |
do you have an EM like the UTEC? if i "could" i think i might strap the laptop down (say under the seat) and just log from there.
i have also wondered the same thing. It would be nice to have a data loging device thats not $texas.
i have also wondered the same thing. It would be nice to have a data loging device thats not $texas.
| Draken | 04-24-2006 04:51 PM |
Sorry, i should have clarified. See my edit.
Chris H.
Chris H.
| MPME | 04-24-2006 05:14 PM |
[URL=http://www.aimsports.com/]AIM[/URL] is about the best for the weekend racer needing results, but on a serious budget.
Dirt cheap, really reliable, lots of features for the low buck, and found in about 50% of all SCCA club racing cars that have data systems.
You're in chico--check out [URL=http://www.offcamberracing.com/]Off Camber Racing [/URL] (in Sacto)--they are AIM dealers, and can surely help/answer questions.
Best of luck.
Dirt cheap, really reliable, lots of features for the low buck, and found in about 50% of all SCCA club racing cars that have data systems.
You're in chico--check out [URL=http://www.offcamberracing.com/]Off Camber Racing [/URL] (in Sacto)--they are AIM dealers, and can surely help/answer questions.
Best of luck.
| WgnWheel | 04-24-2006 06:47 PM |
we use the racepak g2x for time trial/time attack/hpde. [url]http://www.g2extreme.com/[/url]
The basic kit is around 900 bucks, and logs lateral G, Accel G, speed, engine RPM, does track mapping, lap times, segment times and a bunch of other stuff. The software is really nice as well. Then if you want you can add sensors for accel/brake position, pressure transducers, shock travel, temperatures etc. It uses GPS for a lot of the channels, so you don't need a beacon to lap timing, no vehicle speed sensor etc.
Here's a braking shot of the car during an hpde session.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/phoenixR34/pirbraking.jpg[/img]
And a speed and lateral g from the same session.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/phoenixR34/pirturn10.jpg[/img]
Also of note, this company was just bought out by msd(ignitions).
Traqmate is another company, you may want to check out.. hope this helps.
The basic kit is around 900 bucks, and logs lateral G, Accel G, speed, engine RPM, does track mapping, lap times, segment times and a bunch of other stuff. The software is really nice as well. Then if you want you can add sensors for accel/brake position, pressure transducers, shock travel, temperatures etc. It uses GPS for a lot of the channels, so you don't need a beacon to lap timing, no vehicle speed sensor etc.
Here's a braking shot of the car during an hpde session.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/phoenixR34/pirbraking.jpg[/img]
And a speed and lateral g from the same session.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/phoenixR34/pirturn10.jpg[/img]
Also of note, this company was just bought out by msd(ignitions).
Traqmate is another company, you may want to check out.. hope this helps.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 04-24-2006 10:53 PM |
Hello,
This question has come up before... :)
That said, I just used several (3) [URL=http://www.maxqdata.com/]MaxQData[/URL] systems during the USTCC race this last weekend. I moved them about from car to car to get data on several cars and am analyzing the data now. Very good information. We used the $300 MQGPS systems - 4Hz GPS data - so you get a pretty good resolution on position. Over the course of a 40 minute race, there is NO drift of the maps. The data shows minor changes in line, shows when cars contact each other, etc.
The MQGPS is just a GPS system. There are no inputs. If you want inputs, they have systems capable of taking in any kind of input that you want. I would have loved that, but it's hard to get consistent data from different makes and models unless you're just tapping OBD-II information. Plus, I just wanted to throw these things in any car at any time. I had them in a plastic box with a Dell Axim, communicating via BlueTooth, and I slapped some Velcro on the box and on the rear deck of the various race cars. Then I dropped the box on the Velcro, added a zip tie for safety, and off the cars went. The boxes were oriented in random directions, etc., just however I could reach in quickly and set them up.
At any rate, very good information available at a very good price.
Joel Gat
Chief Technical Steward
USTCC
This question has come up before... :)
That said, I just used several (3) [URL=http://www.maxqdata.com/]MaxQData[/URL] systems during the USTCC race this last weekend. I moved them about from car to car to get data on several cars and am analyzing the data now. Very good information. We used the $300 MQGPS systems - 4Hz GPS data - so you get a pretty good resolution on position. Over the course of a 40 minute race, there is NO drift of the maps. The data shows minor changes in line, shows when cars contact each other, etc.
The MQGPS is just a GPS system. There are no inputs. If you want inputs, they have systems capable of taking in any kind of input that you want. I would have loved that, but it's hard to get consistent data from different makes and models unless you're just tapping OBD-II information. Plus, I just wanted to throw these things in any car at any time. I had them in a plastic box with a Dell Axim, communicating via BlueTooth, and I slapped some Velcro on the box and on the rear deck of the various race cars. Then I dropped the box on the Velcro, added a zip tie for safety, and off the cars went. The boxes were oriented in random directions, etc., just however I could reach in quickly and set them up.
At any rate, very good information available at a very good price.
Joel Gat
Chief Technical Steward
USTCC
| pio!pio! | 04-25-2006 12:08 AM |
I 2nd the Aimsport systems..they have a really nice display too for use in the vehicle.
GPS systems are awesome..but you really need a steering angle sensor...
The Aim system is compatble with ECU's that support the CAN bus, so you can hook that up and datalog any engine parameters that teh ECU spits out over CAN (ie speed, rpm, water temp, anything)
But if you are thinking more long term..just get a Motec ADL 2 and be done with it..it will serve your needs forever, and the analysis software is kickass...it's like 90% of a Pi system...
GPS systems are awesome..but you really need a steering angle sensor...
The Aim system is compatble with ECU's that support the CAN bus, so you can hook that up and datalog any engine parameters that teh ECU spits out over CAN (ie speed, rpm, water temp, anything)
But if you are thinking more long term..just get a Motec ADL 2 and be done with it..it will serve your needs forever, and the analysis software is kickass...it's like 90% of a Pi system...
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 04-25-2006 12:23 AM |
Hello,
I agree that the MoTeC is teh sweet, but if you're looking for just basic information, everything, including steering angle, tps, brake position sensor, etc., can be had for under $500 if you go with one of the lesser systems.
Joel
I agree that the MoTeC is teh sweet, but if you're looking for just basic information, everything, including steering angle, tps, brake position sensor, etc., can be had for under $500 if you go with one of the lesser systems.
Joel
| pio!pio! | 04-25-2006 01:17 AM |
I agree with Joel...
but in the long term..if you think you are gonna expand in the future..might as well future proof yourself. Would be a pain to buy a cheaper system, only to buy the better system later on....I agree though if you anticipate your needs to not grow beyond the cheaper system, then stick with that.
but in the long term..if you think you are gonna expand in the future..might as well future proof yourself. Would be a pain to buy a cheaper system, only to buy the better system later on....I agree though if you anticipate your needs to not grow beyond the cheaper system, then stick with that.
| trhoppe | 04-25-2006 09:09 AM |
Traqmate is a great expandable cheap solution for someone on a budget. For $1125 you can have GPS based data aq, an in car lap timer, and also gauge integration into your in car video.
-Tom
-Tom
| TubeDriver | 04-25-2006 10:19 AM |
I'll second the Traqmate option (but only because I just got the setup, I have NOT used it yet). ;)
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Traqmate is a great expandable cheap solution for someone on a budget. For $1125 you can have GPS based data aq, an in car lap timer, and also gauge integration into your in car video.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Traqmate is a great expandable cheap solution for someone on a budget. For $1125 you can have GPS based data aq, an in car lap timer, and also gauge integration into your in car video.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
| Bonzo | 04-25-2006 10:44 AM |
An old school option might be a Valetine Research, G-Analyst.
Simple, easy to setup and calibrate. It records accel, braking, left and right. iirc only a max of 7 minutes but there may be some software now to expand this. You can easily dump data to a laptop for further examination.
Maybe an ebay search will yield something.
edit: found one! 99/buy now 175
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Radar-detector-Cincinnatti-Microwave-G-Analyst_W0QQitemZ9716854725QQcategoryZ14935QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
Simple, easy to setup and calibrate. It records accel, braking, left and right. iirc only a max of 7 minutes but there may be some software now to expand this. You can easily dump data to a laptop for further examination.
Maybe an ebay search will yield something.
edit: found one! 99/buy now 175
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Radar-detector-Cincinnatti-Microwave-G-Analyst_W0QQitemZ9716854725QQcategoryZ14935QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
| AUTOwrXER | 04-25-2006 11:46 AM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Traqmate is a great expandable cheap solution for someone on a budget. For $1125 you can have GPS based data aq, an in car lap timer, and also gauge integration into your in car video.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
+1 I love my Traqmate, but it does need a good deal of manipulation to get the data from an autocross. It takes me about 30 minutes of playing with the software to get it to where I can see the full course, segment times, Gs, etc.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
+1 I love my Traqmate, but it does need a good deal of manipulation to get the data from an autocross. It takes me about 30 minutes of playing with the software to get it to where I can see the full course, segment times, Gs, etc.
| MPME | 04-25-2006 12:22 PM |
GPS functionality is great, but not a substitute for proper channels and dedicated logging. Great add-on, but as pio pio mentioned, but not a replacement for those wanting in-depth analysis of the individual 'driver/handling' channels to pick a part one's performance or setup changes.
AIM has a GPS option coming avilable, for those wanting/needing it.
AIM has a GPS option coming avilable, for those wanting/needing it.
| rbahr | 04-25-2006 12:56 PM |
I have been using products from: [url]http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage2/Products/Products.html[/url] for a while now. I think the value to the product boils down to the software you use to analyze the data. I don't know where this stands now - but they have been around a while
Ray
Ray
| MER | 04-26-2006 02:47 AM |
subscribe
| GRMPer | 04-26-2006 07:19 AM |
I have used both the Race Pak and the Traqmate both rock in their own special way ...Traqmate is super user friendly, the Race Pak is a little more expandable/hardcore. Will be testing/using more soon.
Per
Per
| Draken | 04-26-2006 11:39 AM |
Thanks for all the leads guys. It looks like i need to make a decision of how much info i want to collect, vs. having the ability to actually do something with it. Ease of use would be key for me, as i would rather spend my time driving and making setup changes, than fiddling with equipment.
Keep the ideas coming.
Chris H.
Keep the ideas coming.
Chris H.
| javid | 04-26-2006 12:45 PM |
I've looked into this alot over the past couple years. Although I have limited experiance with the software (only used tracmate and the RaceTech) here are my thoughts:
TracMate: US owned, seem to be developeing more everyday, compact and portable, no in car laptop needed, limited external sensor use, bott Gs and GPS. less $texas
MaxQdata: US owned (and heavily Subaru oriented), I haven't followed developments / updates, compact and portable, need a pocket PC, limited external sensor use, bott Gs and GPS. less $texas
RaceTech DL 1 / 2: European owned, mucho on-going development / upgrades / add ons, compact and portable, no in car laptop needed, plenty of external sensor use with certain models and even more with add-ons, both Gs and GPS. less $texas to get a 'basic' logger but highly expandable (you could spend $texas if you bought all teh add ons) when you decide you want engine / driver inputs, video overlay, real time telemetry, etc... <-- this is what I will go with start with a base system and then add on as I want more.
AIM: European owned, mucho on-going development / upgrades / add ons, many of teh systems are designed to be car dedicated, no in car laptop needed, plenty of external sensor use with certain models and even more with add-ons, both Gs and GPS; wide variety of systems and costs, many come with pimpy dash diplays (read: no need for gauges plus girls will think your hot shiat). Again highly expandable, close to $texas but basically a system equivalent to a Pi or Motec logger for half the cost. <-- AIM seems to be the most productized, they have been around for a long time and the systems look like really nice / seem to have tons of developement in them. All their stuff is a little more costly compared to RaceTech but has little extra features here and there.
If you just want the basics get the MaxQ or TrackMate. If you have a little extra cash or if you want to expand later go with RaceTech or AIM. If you drive or haul on a flatbed to the track get the RaceTech; if you have an enclosed trailer then you want the AIM unit.
TracMate: US owned, seem to be developeing more everyday, compact and portable, no in car laptop needed, limited external sensor use, bott Gs and GPS. less $texas
MaxQdata: US owned (and heavily Subaru oriented), I haven't followed developments / updates, compact and portable, need a pocket PC, limited external sensor use, bott Gs and GPS. less $texas
RaceTech DL 1 / 2: European owned, mucho on-going development / upgrades / add ons, compact and portable, no in car laptop needed, plenty of external sensor use with certain models and even more with add-ons, both Gs and GPS. less $texas to get a 'basic' logger but highly expandable (you could spend $texas if you bought all teh add ons) when you decide you want engine / driver inputs, video overlay, real time telemetry, etc... <-- this is what I will go with start with a base system and then add on as I want more.
AIM: European owned, mucho on-going development / upgrades / add ons, many of teh systems are designed to be car dedicated, no in car laptop needed, plenty of external sensor use with certain models and even more with add-ons, both Gs and GPS; wide variety of systems and costs, many come with pimpy dash diplays (read: no need for gauges plus girls will think your hot shiat). Again highly expandable, close to $texas but basically a system equivalent to a Pi or Motec logger for half the cost. <-- AIM seems to be the most productized, they have been around for a long time and the systems look like really nice / seem to have tons of developement in them. All their stuff is a little more costly compared to RaceTech but has little extra features here and there.
If you just want the basics get the MaxQ or TrackMate. If you have a little extra cash or if you want to expand later go with RaceTech or AIM. If you drive or haul on a flatbed to the track get the RaceTech; if you have an enclosed trailer then you want the AIM unit.
| randy zimmer | 04-26-2006 12:45 PM |
I use a Competition Data Informer, info overlayed over video so it is a good momento, entertaining and information laden. Not especially cheap but numbers are useless to me without context. see what I mean at randyzimmer.com - compressed for web means less detail than the original movie.
rz
rz
| rbahr | 04-26-2006 01:14 PM |
My suggestion is to take a good look at the support as well as the software. The software is what makes the whole thing work - given some basic hardware/sensor configuration
Ray
Ray
| adhowe70 | 04-26-2006 08:08 PM |
Chris,
I've got a Geez Cube. I dunno if those are still available or not, but its worked well at tweaking driver. I don't know if the data that it records is terribly accurate for tweaking car... I haven't driven consistently enough to be *sure* if it was the car or the driver.
Andy
I've got a Geez Cube. I dunno if those are still available or not, but its worked well at tweaking driver. I don't know if the data that it records is terribly accurate for tweaking car... I haven't driven consistently enough to be *sure* if it was the car or the driver.
Andy
| pio!pio! | 04-26-2006 11:20 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]GPS functionality is great, but not a substitute for proper channels and dedicated logging. Great add-on, but as pio pio mentioned, but not a replacement for those wanting in-depth analysis of the individual 'driver/handling' channels to pick a part one's performance or setup changes.
AIM has a GPS option coming avilable, for those wanting/needing it.[/QUOTE]
I've been waiting forever and a day for the GPS addon to ever debut....
AIM has a GPS option coming avilable, for those wanting/needing it.[/QUOTE]
I've been waiting forever and a day for the GPS addon to ever debut....
| pio!pio! | 04-26-2006 11:21 PM |
Aimsport seems to be the best of both worlds..one foot in the inexepensive club racer deal..and the other foot in the full on telemtry race spec stuff...
I even prefer the dash of the Aimsport to the Motec, but the quality of the Motec analysis software makes it much more worth while in the long run than an Aimsport......althought my friend DID write an Aimsport to Motec log converter...but he conventiently lost it.....
I even prefer the dash of the Aimsport to the Motec, but the quality of the Motec analysis software makes it much more worth while in the long run than an Aimsport......althought my friend DID write an Aimsport to Motec log converter...but he conventiently lost it.....
| InfernoSTi | 06-30-2006 09:14 PM |
[QUOTE=WgnWheel]we use the racepak g2x for time trial/time attack/hpde. [url]http://www.g2extreme.com/[/url]
The basic kit is around 900 bucks, and logs lateral G, Accel G, speed, engine RPM, does track mapping, lap times, segment times and a bunch of other stuff. The software is really nice as well. Then if you want you can add sensors for accel/brake position, pressure transducers, shock travel, temperatures etc. It uses GPS for a lot of the channels, so you don't need a beacon to lap timing, no vehicle speed sensor etc. [/QUOTE]
Looks like a nice bit of software. I just bought this one for a couple of reasons: price, easy setup, and expandable guages/sensors. Thanks for the info.
The basic kit is around 900 bucks, and logs lateral G, Accel G, speed, engine RPM, does track mapping, lap times, segment times and a bunch of other stuff. The software is really nice as well. Then if you want you can add sensors for accel/brake position, pressure transducers, shock travel, temperatures etc. It uses GPS for a lot of the channels, so you don't need a beacon to lap timing, no vehicle speed sensor etc. [/QUOTE]
Looks like a nice bit of software. I just bought this one for a couple of reasons: price, easy setup, and expandable guages/sensors. Thanks for the info.
| djb_rh | 06-30-2006 09:23 PM |
You mention autocross, and this is VERY important. Before you buy, make sure the software can handle "open ended laps", ie. autocross runs. The Traqmate currently CAN NOT. An update was promised over a year ago on the forums to handle that. The software designer himself told me a month ago that "the next version" will have it. But so far it doesn't.
The DL-1 does handle it pretty well. The software is much more comprehensive. It has inputs for other sensors should you want to add them. It does *not* have a standard display, so if you want that for in-car lap times, you'll have to add it. That makes it more expensive than the Traqmate, but the DL-1 display (even the small one) has features the Traqmate doesn't (you can load segment points into it and it will give you segment times on the fly, for instance).
I've used a Traqmate fairly extensively over two race weekends. I've used the DL-1 for autocross four times or so now. I can say for certain that I'm looking forward to using the DL-1 at the track as I think it's a better product overall (the CF slot is worth the extra cost by itself, IMHO).
I know several of the other data systems out there have trouble with open ended lapping, so look into that before you buy ANYTHING.
--Donnie
The DL-1 does handle it pretty well. The software is much more comprehensive. It has inputs for other sensors should you want to add them. It does *not* have a standard display, so if you want that for in-car lap times, you'll have to add it. That makes it more expensive than the Traqmate, but the DL-1 display (even the small one) has features the Traqmate doesn't (you can load segment points into it and it will give you segment times on the fly, for instance).
I've used a Traqmate fairly extensively over two race weekends. I've used the DL-1 for autocross four times or so now. I can say for certain that I'm looking forward to using the DL-1 at the track as I think it's a better product overall (the CF slot is worth the extra cost by itself, IMHO).
I know several of the other data systems out there have trouble with open ended lapping, so look into that before you buy ANYTHING.
--Donnie
| solo-x | 07-01-2006 12:07 PM |
[QUOTE=djb_rh]You mention autocross, and this is VERY important. Before you buy, make sure the software can handle "open ended laps", ie. autocross runs. The Traqmate currently CAN NOT. An update was promised over a year ago on the forums to handle that. The software designer himself told me a month ago that "the next version" will have it. But so far it doesn't.
The DL-1 does handle it pretty well. The software is much more comprehensive. It has inputs for other sensors should you want to add them. It does *not* have a standard display, so if you want that for in-car lap times, you'll have to add it. That makes it more expensive than the Traqmate, but the DL-1 display (even the small one) has features the Traqmate doesn't (you can load segment points into it and it will give you segment times on the fly, for instance).
I've used a Traqmate fairly extensively over two race weekends. I've used the DL-1 for autocross four times or so now. I can say for certain that I'm looking forward to using the DL-1 at the track as I think it's a better product overall (the CF slot is worth the extra cost by itself, IMHO).
I know several of the other data systems out there have trouble with open ended lapping, so look into that before you buy ANYTHING.
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
+1
i use a DL1, chang has a traqmate. my DL1 is WAY easier for logging autocross runs.
The DL-1 does handle it pretty well. The software is much more comprehensive. It has inputs for other sensors should you want to add them. It does *not* have a standard display, so if you want that for in-car lap times, you'll have to add it. That makes it more expensive than the Traqmate, but the DL-1 display (even the small one) has features the Traqmate doesn't (you can load segment points into it and it will give you segment times on the fly, for instance).
I've used a Traqmate fairly extensively over two race weekends. I've used the DL-1 for autocross four times or so now. I can say for certain that I'm looking forward to using the DL-1 at the track as I think it's a better product overall (the CF slot is worth the extra cost by itself, IMHO).
I know several of the other data systems out there have trouble with open ended lapping, so look into that before you buy ANYTHING.
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
+1
i use a DL1, chang has a traqmate. my DL1 is WAY easier for logging autocross runs.
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