| Vikingmoose | 04-13-2006 08:28 PM |
Endurance kart racing
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[I]*EDITED 4/15/06 - Link to website at bottom of post. Also edited some info in the original post, but only slightly.[/I]
Hey guys (and gals)! A bunch of coworkers and I are registered for a 6hr endurance kart race (wheel-to-wheel) at Lime Rock Park the first weekend in May. Aside from one of them who did it a year ago, none of us have any experience in this type of setting. I have a decent amount of experience, having done quite a bit of autox and one track event, but this is all together new to me. I believe the rest have some sort of driving experience but I'm not sure exactly in what form(s). Regardless, we are all novices when it comes to (endurance) kart racing.
From what I know, the race is 6hrs split between the four of us with 2 fuel stops and 13 driver changes - 15 pit stops total. Our company is letting the 4 of us leave work early on Friday so we can go to the afternoon practice sessions, so I think we should be comfortable driving the karts. But I know there's some strategy involved with the pit stops. Can anyone shed some light for us? All the karts are "equal" so it really comes down to the driver and smart pit stop usage. So if anyone has some experience with this, would they care to share some insight? Or any tips in general for kart driving?
Thanks!
Justin
Link to website: [URL]www.endurancekarting.com[/URL]
Hey guys (and gals)! A bunch of coworkers and I are registered for a 6hr endurance kart race (wheel-to-wheel) at Lime Rock Park the first weekend in May. Aside from one of them who did it a year ago, none of us have any experience in this type of setting. I have a decent amount of experience, having done quite a bit of autox and one track event, but this is all together new to me. I believe the rest have some sort of driving experience but I'm not sure exactly in what form(s). Regardless, we are all novices when it comes to (endurance) kart racing.
From what I know, the race is 6hrs split between the four of us with 2 fuel stops and 13 driver changes - 15 pit stops total. Our company is letting the 4 of us leave work early on Friday so we can go to the afternoon practice sessions, so I think we should be comfortable driving the karts. But I know there's some strategy involved with the pit stops. Can anyone shed some light for us? All the karts are "equal" so it really comes down to the driver and smart pit stop usage. So if anyone has some experience with this, would they care to share some insight? Or any tips in general for kart driving?
Thanks!
Justin
Link to website: [URL]www.endurancekarting.com[/URL]
| GEARHEAD23 | 04-13-2006 11:29 PM |
Hey ,Justin how you been.
| REX8 | 04-14-2006 12:04 AM |
What kind of karts are you running? Rotax?
You're are in for a LONG day. Honestly, you don't have time to get in shape....be prepared to be CRAMPED (arms, hands, etc.) and BRUISED like crazy.
I don't think you realize what you got yourself into.....:lol:
Tips: Hmm... well, plenty of rest, lots of water...10 minutes in a true race kart takes EFFORT (even a non-shifter)
It really depends on the speed of the karts. It could go from a fun afternoon to the most demanding automotive experience of your life (not kidding: at all). But if you can go fast in a kart, you can go fast in anything...
Good luck!
You're are in for a LONG day. Honestly, you don't have time to get in shape....be prepared to be CRAMPED (arms, hands, etc.) and BRUISED like crazy.
I don't think you realize what you got yourself into.....:lol:
Tips: Hmm... well, plenty of rest, lots of water...10 minutes in a true race kart takes EFFORT (even a non-shifter)
It really depends on the speed of the karts. It could go from a fun afternoon to the most demanding automotive experience of your life (not kidding: at all). But if you can go fast in a kart, you can go fast in anything...
Good luck!
| banzai | 04-14-2006 12:10 AM |
you're going to hurt.
get a rib protectors if they are not provided, you'll thank me later.
in those long endurance races, running 80-85% is the key.
the guys that go all out right from teh get go either break, or get tired and can't finish.
conserve the equipment, to finish first, first you must finish.
in all likelyhood the team that is leading after four stops will probably win, the field will be more or less set by then.
if you're running fourth after the fifth stop, don't sweat it. ry to close in a bit, but don't over do it. you want to keep pressure on the guy in front of you to make him do somethign dumb.
get a rib protectors if they are not provided, you'll thank me later.
in those long endurance races, running 80-85% is the key.
the guys that go all out right from teh get go either break, or get tired and can't finish.
conserve the equipment, to finish first, first you must finish.
in all likelyhood the team that is leading after four stops will probably win, the field will be more or less set by then.
if you're running fourth after the fifth stop, don't sweat it. ry to close in a bit, but don't over do it. you want to keep pressure on the guy in front of you to make him do somethign dumb.
| REX8 | 04-14-2006 12:13 AM |
These guys aren't karters...I think finishing is going to be a good goal...
And honestly...don't get pissed if a 10 year old is running 4 seconds a lap faster than you. It will happen....
And honestly...don't get pissed if a 10 year old is running 4 seconds a lap faster than you. It will happen....
| banzai | 04-14-2006 12:15 AM |
[QUOTE=REX8]These guys aren't karters...I think finishing is going to be a good goal...
And honestly...don't get pissed if a 10 year old is running 4 seconds a lap faster than you. It will happen....[/QUOTE]
word.
jsut make your goal to finish. the guys that show up there with the mindset that they are goign to win, aren't. they will either break or be worn out half way thru.
and fat guys have to work harder at being fast. :D
And honestly...don't get pissed if a 10 year old is running 4 seconds a lap faster than you. It will happen....[/QUOTE]
word.
jsut make your goal to finish. the guys that show up there with the mindset that they are goign to win, aren't. they will either break or be worn out half way thru.
and fat guys have to work harder at being fast. :D
| nate49509 | 04-14-2006 12:23 AM |
Sounds like a lot of fun actully. How much does something like this cost?
| EROCK | 04-14-2006 12:54 AM |
I did this at LRP two summers ago and had a blast! You will def. be sore afterwards. Make sure you do the obvious and hydrate/eat /sunscreen but most of all...have fun! All karts were equal as far as I could tell but there sure were some fast drivers out there (makes me wish I was at my 10yr. old weight again). If you run consistant laps without going off track and make fairly quick pit stops you will do ok. My team went off WAY too often. I had a team of six and I was tired afterward but at the awards there way a team of two that did the race...thats nuts! Make sure someone brings some sort of tent and chairs, you'll need them. Report back after!
| Arnie | 04-14-2006 03:17 AM |
Awesome Justin, you will learn what running the proper racing line is all about in this motorsport. carrying speed through turns is absolutely critical.
but the most important thing....rib protectors!!!! I cannot underline the importance of these things. I drove an hour long session without one and was in so much pain afterwards. bruised ribs for weeks!
but the most important thing....rib protectors!!!! I cannot underline the importance of these things. I drove an hour long session without one and was in so much pain afterwards. bruised ribs for weeks!
| drf | 04-14-2006 04:03 AM |
In addition to all the stuff that's been mentioned before, I have just a few other things to add.
Make sure the seat fits you properly. You don't want to have to reach for the pedals, or hold yourself in position with your hands. You also don't want the seat to be too tight or too loose. I've bruised my hips in both situations. You can use foam pads or seat inserts to make sure that all your drivers are comfortable.
Also, (This might seem minor, but it'll make a big difference at the end of the day) make sure to find time to flex your fingers on every lap. Driving a kart is very physical, and takes a lot of grip strength, so you might find yourself using a deathgrip on the wheel. Flex your fingers whenever you get a chance (the straight is a good time) so that you don't end up with blown out forearms at the end of your stint.
Find the braking threshold during your practice. If you go beyond that, and lock up the brake, you're likely to spin. Even getting into the brakes too abruptly can cause a spin. And if you spin, just stay on the brake till you stop.
btw, I think I met you at Evo school. I'm Chris (WRB wagon + silver M3).
Make sure the seat fits you properly. You don't want to have to reach for the pedals, or hold yourself in position with your hands. You also don't want the seat to be too tight or too loose. I've bruised my hips in both situations. You can use foam pads or seat inserts to make sure that all your drivers are comfortable.
Also, (This might seem minor, but it'll make a big difference at the end of the day) make sure to find time to flex your fingers on every lap. Driving a kart is very physical, and takes a lot of grip strength, so you might find yourself using a deathgrip on the wheel. Flex your fingers whenever you get a chance (the straight is a good time) so that you don't end up with blown out forearms at the end of your stint.
Find the braking threshold during your practice. If you go beyond that, and lock up the brake, you're likely to spin. Even getting into the brakes too abruptly can cause a spin. And if you spin, just stay on the brake till you stop.
btw, I think I met you at Evo school. I'm Chris (WRB wagon + silver M3).
| solo-x | 04-14-2006 09:04 AM |
i've done an indoor karting enduro. driver changes are critical. the driver that is coming in needs to roll out to the left, the new driver comes in from the right and is on the gas before even getting in the seat. track position is everything. qualify well, and start with the fastest driver in the car. one of the strategy's used by a few guys in the enduro i ran was to pit on lap one. (sometimes you can't if the pits are closed for the first however many laps of the race) with everyone bunched up and on cold tires they won't pull as far away while you're in the pits. pull a double stint right off if you're fresh enough.
you have plenty of time to get into shape. go to your local indoor karting facility 2-3 times a week and do 3-4 sessions. these things are tough on the drivers and you'll get in shape QUICK. +1 on the rib protector. i don't use one, but since i've only been doing indoor karting with little 6hp karts it hasn't been necessary. outdoor on asphault and the bumpy lrp surface you'll definitely want one.
i wish i could run this enduro. or the 24hr enduro in portugal i was invited to. uncle sam is really annoying me this year.
nate
you have plenty of time to get into shape. go to your local indoor karting facility 2-3 times a week and do 3-4 sessions. these things are tough on the drivers and you'll get in shape QUICK. +1 on the rib protector. i don't use one, but since i've only been doing indoor karting with little 6hp karts it hasn't been necessary. outdoor on asphault and the bumpy lrp surface you'll definitely want one.
i wish i could run this enduro. or the 24hr enduro in portugal i was invited to. uncle sam is really annoying me this year.
nate
| Vikingmoose | 04-15-2006 09:53 AM |
Thanks guys! I knew I could count on the Motorsports forum to give me (us) some really good advice. :) I edited the original post with a link to the website - it has general info about the event and the karts. I'll respond/comment to the posts in the next coming days to hopefully get a nice "dialogue" going. Who know's this info may be useful to someone else someday. :)
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
| alacrity024 | 04-15-2006 10:11 AM |
this sounds like a ****load of fun.. what's the cost involved?
| sportz135 | 04-15-2006 03:46 PM |
that does sound awesome... its actually not too bad cost wise
link to pricing is [url]http://www.endurancekarting.com/Pricing.2006.html[/url]
link to pricing is [url]http://www.endurancekarting.com/Pricing.2006.html[/url]
| Jonnyfilmboy | 04-15-2006 09:48 PM |
Sounds like an awesome time. I did a short run on a kart in a really bad parking lot circuit and yes, the 10 year olds blew past us all (especially me at 6'1" and 200 lbs - I felt really fat), and yes, my ribs were killing me after a few minutes because of the horrible bumps of the parking lot. And if I didn't have the neck brace under my helmet, I never would have made it. The G forces were unlike anything I had experienced before. And my hands ached afterwards. SO I guess I would just second, or third, everything that these guys just said.
Good luck. Post pics!
Good luck. Post pics!
| makofoto | 04-15-2006 10:01 PM |
We did one of these a couple of years ago ... everyone also had to do three oil changes as part of the deal. They supplied the engine, oil and pan, etc (you supply your own rolling chassis) ... we had to turn in the used oil after each change. Being the oldest, slowest and tired-est... I gave up my last turn as we tried to close in on the group ahead of us. Out of 12 teams we ended up 8th. But spent a lot of time in the pits doing repairs.
I spun at one point. Yellow flag was out for the corner in question. Some guy comes barrelling in at me as I'm about to push start my kart. He spins himself and I jumped back into the kart for protection. The impact broke a steering rod and pushed it through the tire. It took quite a few laps to make repairs. Make sure you guys have basic extras like mounted spare wheels/tires and steering arms.
Yes, I was sore for the next few days ... neck, ribs, forearms, shoulders ... but it was a blast! Be ready with the Advil! Adam's track in Riverside, CA. Home of the biggest Banked curve in go-karting. Use to be very bumpy but supposedly it's been resurfaced.
I spun at one point. Yellow flag was out for the corner in question. Some guy comes barrelling in at me as I'm about to push start my kart. He spins himself and I jumped back into the kart for protection. The impact broke a steering rod and pushed it through the tire. It took quite a few laps to make repairs. Make sure you guys have basic extras like mounted spare wheels/tires and steering arms.
Yes, I was sore for the next few days ... neck, ribs, forearms, shoulders ... but it was a blast! Be ready with the Advil! Adam's track in Riverside, CA. Home of the biggest Banked curve in go-karting. Use to be very bumpy but supposedly it's been resurfaced.
| makofoto | 04-15-2006 10:04 PM |
Those prices seem high ... but for our event we supplied the kart and they the motor.
| cooleyjb | 04-15-2006 11:56 PM |
Watch out for the team with a bunch of 12 year olds. They'll win.
| GTRPower | 04-16-2006 03:46 PM |
I won the overall at one of Johann's events at Road America a few years ago- the same outfit you're going to race with. The racing is close- we had the luxury of getting a black flag 2 laps from the end of the race and we only won by 3/4 lap over the second placed team.
We had three drivers for an 8 hour event. Every other team there had 5 drivers. We're seat time hogs. Get rib protection- you can't count on other people driving cleanly. They rent it there or you can buy it from any kart shop or online at UPR Racing and others.
The keys to doing well-
1. Keep it on the track.
2. Drive at 95% or higher. 85% will put you midpack. Midpack means lots of dicing, lots of interference, lots of chances to get into "trouble." Not a good place to be.
3. Schedule driver changes with fuel stops, schedule driver changes early to allow longer stints later. Spend as little time as humanly possible in the pit doing driver changes.
4. Don't get held up by traffic- pass clean, pass safe, most importantly learn how to pass without impacting your lap times negatively.
5. Stay hydrated. Eat simple foods- no chili cheese dogs, etc. Bring chairs, a cooler for food and drinks, an EZUp or canopy if you have one. Bring exposure protection- sunscreen, jacket, whatever you think you'll need.
If you can do that you'll do fine, because there may be one ot two kids running quicker than everyone, but they won't all be on the same team.
For what it's worth that little race vaulted me into road racing karts... 100mph 1" off the ground at places like Barber and Road Atlanta... :devil:
We had three drivers for an 8 hour event. Every other team there had 5 drivers. We're seat time hogs. Get rib protection- you can't count on other people driving cleanly. They rent it there or you can buy it from any kart shop or online at UPR Racing and others.
The keys to doing well-
1. Keep it on the track.
2. Drive at 95% or higher. 85% will put you midpack. Midpack means lots of dicing, lots of interference, lots of chances to get into "trouble." Not a good place to be.
3. Schedule driver changes with fuel stops, schedule driver changes early to allow longer stints later. Spend as little time as humanly possible in the pit doing driver changes.
4. Don't get held up by traffic- pass clean, pass safe, most importantly learn how to pass without impacting your lap times negatively.
5. Stay hydrated. Eat simple foods- no chili cheese dogs, etc. Bring chairs, a cooler for food and drinks, an EZUp or canopy if you have one. Bring exposure protection- sunscreen, jacket, whatever you think you'll need.
If you can do that you'll do fine, because there may be one ot two kids running quicker than everyone, but they won't all be on the same team.
For what it's worth that little race vaulted me into road racing karts... 100mph 1" off the ground at places like Barber and Road Atlanta... :devil:
| digitalboy40 | 04-17-2006 02:25 AM |
Good luck Justin! That looks awesome! Is there anything similar to that happening over on the west coast? I looked at their schedule and its all just east coast tracks and stuff
| makofoto | 04-17-2006 03:01 AM |
As I posted ... we did one at Adam's Track in Riverside. Their site doesn't show those type of events ... it was an outside organizer using their facility. Don't remember the organizer, will try to check with my team mates. LOTS of go-kart racing all around LA. There is a very nice course next to Lot 12/Green where we/CSCC AX's every month at CA Spdway. The Jim Hall, Jr. go-karting school in Ventura is a great place to take lessons.
| CirrusWRX | 04-17-2006 01:41 PM |
After reading the latest GRM about karts, I can only say that I am very excited to try something like this, if nothing more, for the "bang-for-the-buck" appeal. I'm thinking of asking some coworkers if they want to chip in for a 6 person endurance team just for something fun to do this summer.
| WillisW555 | 04-17-2006 07:43 PM |
Good luck, those outdoor karts are hard work. Here are my tips. I've done outdoor karting for a few years now, but I go indoors A LOT.
1. Make sure you loosen your grip every so often, otherwise your forearms will cramp up and that is definately not fun.
2. As stated above, make sure everybody fits the kart well, you may have to get seat inserts if the drivers vary a lot in size/stature.
3. Keep it on the track. If you drop wheels too often you run the risk of losing teeth on the sprocket or damaging the brake disc.
4. Conserve the kart as overdriving will beat the kart as well as the driver more than necessary.
5. Get a good neck brace because your neck will get tired. Also as stated above, get a rib protector as those outdoor karts are capable of big Gs and you have the seats digging into your ribs.
I know after 3 hours of on and off driving indoors I was soooo tired. I find that stretching before and after helps though. This sounds like so much fun, I'd love to do something like this.
1. Make sure you loosen your grip every so often, otherwise your forearms will cramp up and that is definately not fun.
2. As stated above, make sure everybody fits the kart well, you may have to get seat inserts if the drivers vary a lot in size/stature.
3. Keep it on the track. If you drop wheels too often you run the risk of losing teeth on the sprocket or damaging the brake disc.
4. Conserve the kart as overdriving will beat the kart as well as the driver more than necessary.
5. Get a good neck brace because your neck will get tired. Also as stated above, get a rib protector as those outdoor karts are capable of big Gs and you have the seats digging into your ribs.
I know after 3 hours of on and off driving indoors I was soooo tired. I find that stretching before and after helps though. This sounds like so much fun, I'd love to do something like this.
| Vikingmoose | 04-17-2006 09:11 PM |
Ok, I've read the replies a couple of times now and tried to retain all the info. Some info that might help you help us: All four of us are roughtly the same size - 5'4" to 5'8", slender stature, feather/welter-weights. The karts are all the same and the organization provides all mechanic service. We don't have to do anything but drive. I don't think any of us expect to win, but naturally we want to do as well as possible. Now onto the discussion/questions...
Some of the general consensus items:
1. Get rib protectors and neck braces!
2. Relax your hands when you can.
3. Stay on course.
4. Know your braking points and keep your speed.
Now, things that may need some discussion:
1. One person says to get ahead early and stay there. Another says to run at 80-85% (or, midpack). So what is the recommendation? Should we try to jump ahead as soon as possible and work on maintaining that position the rest of the day?
2. The race is a LeMans style start - does that have any bearing on who should start? Does who we choose as our first driver make a difference regardless? (ie: fastest driver first or most consistent driver first, etc)
3. I'm still a bit confused on how we should manage our pit stops/driver changes. One suggestion was to pit early and get it out of the way. All the karts are equal, so winning has to come down to good driving and strategy.
4. Someone mentioned getting pit stops done earlier so we can do longer stints later. But is that really the best thing? Wouldn't we be fatigued as the day goes on, so shorter stints would be better...right?
5. [I]"in all likelyhood the team that is leading after four stops will probably win, the field will be more or less set by then."-banzai[/I] So, if that were/is true, should we perhaps drive very aggressively the first few sessions to try to establish a good position, then take it easy the rest of the time? It'd sorta be like a middle-ground between driving all-out all day and 80-85% all day.
Some of the general consensus items:
1. Get rib protectors and neck braces!
2. Relax your hands when you can.
3. Stay on course.
4. Know your braking points and keep your speed.
Now, things that may need some discussion:
1. One person says to get ahead early and stay there. Another says to run at 80-85% (or, midpack). So what is the recommendation? Should we try to jump ahead as soon as possible and work on maintaining that position the rest of the day?
2. The race is a LeMans style start - does that have any bearing on who should start? Does who we choose as our first driver make a difference regardless? (ie: fastest driver first or most consistent driver first, etc)
3. I'm still a bit confused on how we should manage our pit stops/driver changes. One suggestion was to pit early and get it out of the way. All the karts are equal, so winning has to come down to good driving and strategy.
4. Someone mentioned getting pit stops done earlier so we can do longer stints later. But is that really the best thing? Wouldn't we be fatigued as the day goes on, so shorter stints would be better...right?
5. [I]"in all likelyhood the team that is leading after four stops will probably win, the field will be more or less set by then."-banzai[/I] So, if that were/is true, should we perhaps drive very aggressively the first few sessions to try to establish a good position, then take it easy the rest of the time? It'd sorta be like a middle-ground between driving all-out all day and 80-85% all day.
| Vikingmoose | 04-29-2006 07:39 PM |
Bump! Race is in one week. Any other words of wisdom?
| EROCK | 04-29-2006 11:15 PM |
Yeah, if memory serves me right at the bottom part of the track there is a real big bump at the apex. They might have cones blocking it but if they don't WATCH OUT, its a rough one.
I did some indoor karting today at a new place in Wallingford but its nothing compared to what you will experience at LRP. Did I mention I was jealous!
I did some indoor karting today at a new place in Wallingford but its nothing compared to what you will experience at LRP. Did I mention I was jealous!
| gills | 04-30-2006 12:13 AM |
[QUOTE=Vikingmoose]Bump! Race is in one week. Any other words of wisdom?[/QUOTE]
Yea, tell Johan to turn up the rev limiter on the karts, they are too slow for the money paid. ;)
Otherwise, what everyone else has said is spot on. Have an organized game plan and you'll be ok.
Yea, tell Johan to turn up the rev limiter on the karts, they are too slow for the money paid. ;)
Otherwise, what everyone else has said is spot on. Have an organized game plan and you'll be ok.
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