| greg donovan | 06-06-2004 01:53 AM |
mitsu. warranty denials for SCCA event partcipation
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saw this on grassroots motosports forum. thought you guys would find it intersting. hope this trend doesnt conitnue and/or spread.
[url]http://www.grmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=4176[/url]
[url]http://www.grmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=4176[/url]
| thechickencow | 06-06-2004 02:23 AM |
I like the conspiracy theories about the subaru SCCA deal.
Jay
Jay
| KC | 06-06-2004 09:04 AM |
Posted.
| WRXedUSA | 06-06-2004 12:45 PM |
Sweet.
All in all, you gotta look at the WIDE view from a mile away. How can Mitsubishi and Subaru proport racing/rallying/SCCA activites and not expect their cars to be graced with some of this action in the first 3yrs of ownership, then come around and be a warranty Nazi.
Have you looked at thier brochures? Immean look at Mitsubishi's. It's got BOZZ Speed cars in in, PS2 screenshots and pics of Tommi flying through the air. A average lawyer could argue this for ya.
Sorry for the rantange. This is something that continues to amaze me.
Rally on!:banana:
All in all, you gotta look at the WIDE view from a mile away. How can Mitsubishi and Subaru proport racing/rallying/SCCA activites and not expect their cars to be graced with some of this action in the first 3yrs of ownership, then come around and be a warranty Nazi.
Have you looked at thier brochures? Immean look at Mitsubishi's. It's got BOZZ Speed cars in in, PS2 screenshots and pics of Tommi flying through the air. A average lawyer could argue this for ya.
Sorry for the rantange. This is something that continues to amaze me.
Rally on!:banana:
| greg donovan | 06-06-2004 01:06 PM |
i can see denying warranty work for something that is obviously "racing related" but not for something unrelated. and i think it is totally unnaceptable to go about it in the way mitsu is. i hope that story has all the facts in it. i wonder if they left anything out.
my solution is to only buy and race used cars. ive never had a car w/a warranty.
my solution is to only buy and race used cars. ive never had a car w/a warranty.
| ChrisL2 | 06-06-2004 01:38 PM |
Guess we should all just race on the street? That way if something breaks, we can say with some truth that we where not driving in some type of motorsport.
Sure is safer to drive at 10/10 on the street then a track/auto-x.
Sure is safer to drive at 10/10 on the street then a track/auto-x.
| finnRex | 06-06-2004 05:18 PM |
Mitsu is being a weak company(surprise, surprise). At my dealership we've put on a couple of clutches and flywheels on IS's 'cuz the kid/brat was driving like an animal/idiot.
A warranty covers manufacturer's defects. It doesn't say anything about how hard you drive the car. If it fails within 36 months/36K miles, or 48 months/50K miles, it fails(regardless of how they have driven it). It should be taken care of. Most decent technicians can take a look at a car and tell if the customer rides it hard or not. Some dealerships even cover wear items such as brakes(yes brakes) and drive belts(we see plenty of them). Each dealership varies on how cool they are. I've been to a few Lexus dealerships where the manager or shop foreman wouldn't cover anything if it looked like it had been "abused". I've also been to some where the manager would let just about anything slide. Best thing to do is find a dealership that is cool with you, and be honest with them regarding how you drive your car. I really think Subaru should step up with their tranny deals and give the customer the benefit of the doubt. And in the repair order put in something to the like of "this is a one-time coverage due to the fact that the dealership has found evidence of abuse in the transmission system". THAT is up to the regional director and the higher ups at SoA.
I think that some of you are right in that there will be lawsuits claiming misleading advertisement. I mean, how can you show a car flying 4 or 5 feet in the air and then expect the customer to drive a similar car like grandma? And give the customer an SCCA membership? Grey area here...
Mika
A warranty covers manufacturer's defects. It doesn't say anything about how hard you drive the car. If it fails within 36 months/36K miles, or 48 months/50K miles, it fails(regardless of how they have driven it). It should be taken care of. Most decent technicians can take a look at a car and tell if the customer rides it hard or not. Some dealerships even cover wear items such as brakes(yes brakes) and drive belts(we see plenty of them). Each dealership varies on how cool they are. I've been to a few Lexus dealerships where the manager or shop foreman wouldn't cover anything if it looked like it had been "abused". I've also been to some where the manager would let just about anything slide. Best thing to do is find a dealership that is cool with you, and be honest with them regarding how you drive your car. I really think Subaru should step up with their tranny deals and give the customer the benefit of the doubt. And in the repair order put in something to the like of "this is a one-time coverage due to the fact that the dealership has found evidence of abuse in the transmission system". THAT is up to the regional director and the higher ups at SoA.
I think that some of you are right in that there will be lawsuits claiming misleading advertisement. I mean, how can you show a car flying 4 or 5 feet in the air and then expect the customer to drive a similar car like grandma? And give the customer an SCCA membership? Grey area here...
Mika
| greg donovan | 06-07-2004 02:30 AM |
subaru even has banners saying "wanna race?" and advocate joining the scca. they must just want us all to work at events.
i have heard that they will warranty a tranny if teeth ar chipped but not if they are sheared completely off.
i have heard that they will warranty a tranny if teeth ar chipped but not if they are sheared completely off.
| wrrrx | 06-07-2004 09:12 AM |
Hmm. Mebbe this explains why I see almost no Evos at local motorsports events? :p
Our local AutoX's look like mini-Subie meets! And of course- at RallyX... well, those look like [i]major[/i] Subie meets!!:lol:
Russ R
Our local AutoX's look like mini-Subie meets! And of course- at RallyX... well, those look like [i]major[/i] Subie meets!!:lol:
Russ R
| Butt Dyno | 06-07-2004 03:59 PM |
It's worth distinguishing between "Subaru" and "crappy Subaru dealers". My dealership knows I autocross and they haven't treated me poorly (then again, the car has treated me pretty well). They've even shown up at the Subaru Challenge, and not to write VINs down either. I think it's a fair generalization to say "most car dealerships suck". And if I fragged 2nd gear on a hard upshift on an autocross run, I would understand if they didn't cover it.
I will never make another car-buying decision without factoring the dealership into the equation. If you live in the middle of nowhere, and you have to choose between an Evo with a cool dealership, or an STi with a crappy dealership, you might be better off w/ the Evo.
john
I will never make another car-buying decision without factoring the dealership into the equation. If you live in the middle of nowhere, and you have to choose between an Evo with a cool dealership, or an STi with a crappy dealership, you might be better off w/ the Evo.
john
| bemani | 06-07-2004 04:50 PM |
I don't know how they can prove that you raced the car without the VIN. Yeah, I autoXed a blue WRX, but did I autoX MY blue WRX? Maybe. I could've been driving someone else's car.
Using entry information is even more stupid. I could've just not shown up at all.
You probably need to sue to get anything out of them though, once they start being a little beotch.
Using entry information is even more stupid. I could've just not shown up at all.
You probably need to sue to get anything out of them though, once they start being a little beotch.
| ChrisW | 06-07-2004 05:17 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrrrx[/i]
[B] Hmm. Mebbe this explains why I see almost no Evos at local motorsports events? :p
Our local AutoX's look like mini-Subie meets! And of course- at RallyX... well, those look like [i]major[/i] Subie meets!!:lol:
Russ R [/B][/QUOTE]
we don't have that problem in my region. There are plenty of EVO's participating in the local autocross and track day events.
I'm just a little annoyed that I am forced to spend money on a warrentee that I can't use. :furious:
[B] Hmm. Mebbe this explains why I see almost no Evos at local motorsports events? :p
Our local AutoX's look like mini-Subie meets! And of course- at RallyX... well, those look like [i]major[/i] Subie meets!!:lol:
Russ R [/B][/QUOTE]
we don't have that problem in my region. There are plenty of EVO's participating in the local autocross and track day events.
I'm just a little annoyed that I am forced to spend money on a warrentee that I can't use. :furious:
| briank | 06-07-2004 06:24 PM |
Don't forget, Mitsu is gasping for its last breath of air. They're losing money extremely fast and they won't be around long. This warranty BS is probably them trying to save money any way they can.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 06-07-2004 09:48 PM |
I don't honestly see Mitsu just going away. Most likely they will just get bought out by one of the Big 3.
| Epyon | 06-07-2004 10:12 PM |
They already are owned by DaimlerChrysler. And they've already been bailed out once. DaimlerChrysler won't bail them out again. They've cut off all financial support.
That and they've just had another round of massive recalls from defect coverups. 160,000+ vehicles. And then you have the year 2000 announcement that uncovered a decade of defect coverups. Mitsu isn't very well liked in Japan (where most of the recalls have been).
The Evo (and all other Mitsu cars) is getting an extended warranty starting this model year though. 7 years or 100,000+.
So Mitsubishi is on [i]very[/i] thin ice.
It'll be a sad day when the Evo dies. (I hope and pray that day will never come).
That and they've just had another round of massive recalls from defect coverups. 160,000+ vehicles. And then you have the year 2000 announcement that uncovered a decade of defect coverups. Mitsu isn't very well liked in Japan (where most of the recalls have been).
The Evo (and all other Mitsu cars) is getting an extended warranty starting this model year though. 7 years or 100,000+.
So Mitsubishi is on [i]very[/i] thin ice.
It'll be a sad day when the Evo dies. (I hope and pray that day will never come).
| Rodan | 06-08-2004 09:40 AM |
EVO warranty voided
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[URL=http://www.northtexasaudigroup.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=5839]EVO warranty voided for cars that participate in any SCCA event.[/URL]
| dwx | 06-08-2004 09:59 AM |
Already a thread on this, but there are 2 seperate cases of this now along with a new case in which they didn't warranty it because they found a post by the guy on the evolutionm forums.
| asquaredrex | 06-08-2004 01:44 PM |
Both Mitsu and Subaru are small car companies and the WRX/EVO, while important to a niche market in terms of image building, are too small a portion of their sales to warrant massive costs spent on warranty repairs for cars that get beaten on. They just can't afford it (especially Mitsu). Could you Mitsubishi fulfilling their 100,000 mile warranty on a EVO (even a stock one) that spends every season at the race track?
I'm not saying that I agree with the obvious disconnect between their marketing and their maintenece policies. I'm just pointing out why they void warranties.
On a somewhat related note, I saw on the Elise boards that Lotus (a brand centered completely around performance driving) will be checking engine computers to make sure break-in guidelines are properly followed. May or may not be true (it's apparently stated right in the manual), but if it is, another good example of a small company that takes precautions to lower their overall risk factor on warranties.
I'm not saying that I agree with the obvious disconnect between their marketing and their maintenece policies. I'm just pointing out why they void warranties.
On a somewhat related note, I saw on the Elise boards that Lotus (a brand centered completely around performance driving) will be checking engine computers to make sure break-in guidelines are properly followed. May or may not be true (it's apparently stated right in the manual), but if it is, another good example of a small company that takes precautions to lower their overall risk factor on warranties.
| Jaxx | 06-08-2004 03:30 PM |
i find this hard to believe.. not enough proof .. as they didn't have the vin number or even licence plate at the registration ..he could have been driving a friends "03 Mitsubishi Evolution 8 Yellow"
no way a company would make a policy this vague w/o more concrete evidence. too many lawyers
no way a company would make a policy this vague w/o more concrete evidence. too many lawyers
| WRXedUSA | 06-08-2004 08:02 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrrrx[/i]
[B] Hmm. Mebbe this explains why I see almost no Evos at local motorsports events? :p
Our local AutoX's look like mini-Subie meets! And of course- at RallyX... well, those look like [i]major[/i] Subie meets!!:lol:
Russ R [/B][/QUOTE]
That's about what our autoX's look like.
All the evo's are parked in the paddock, watching.
[B] Hmm. Mebbe this explains why I see almost no Evos at local motorsports events? :p
Our local AutoX's look like mini-Subie meets! And of course- at RallyX... well, those look like [i]major[/i] Subie meets!!:lol:
Russ R [/B][/QUOTE]
That's about what our autoX's look like.
All the evo's are parked in the paddock, watching.
| leecea | 06-08-2004 10:04 PM |
I'm not a lawyer, but I think there may be some missconceptions here:
1) I don't think anyone is really going to believe that someone who owns a Yellow 03 Evo was actually driving a different Yellow 03 Evo at an autox, unless the owner of the other car comes forward. I think that is stretching "innocent until proven guilty" too far.
2) Despite repeatedly trying to explain to my friends that autox is not racing, they still don't see the difference. I think that most members of the public would agree with the car company: you raced your car and broke something, so no warranty.
<rant>
I actually think there is a bigger issue with Subaru ads that state 0-60 times that can only be obtained with clutch-drop launches that are very likely to result in voided transmission warranties!
However, I bet they'd void your warranty on an SUV if you did half the things they show in their ads. I can only assume that they have teams of lawyers reviewing these ads and the fine print, and making sure they are OK.
Until someone with lots of money can take them on and win, I don't think we will have much luck.
</rant>
1) I don't think anyone is really going to believe that someone who owns a Yellow 03 Evo was actually driving a different Yellow 03 Evo at an autox, unless the owner of the other car comes forward. I think that is stretching "innocent until proven guilty" too far.
2) Despite repeatedly trying to explain to my friends that autox is not racing, they still don't see the difference. I think that most members of the public would agree with the car company: you raced your car and broke something, so no warranty.
<rant>
I actually think there is a bigger issue with Subaru ads that state 0-60 times that can only be obtained with clutch-drop launches that are very likely to result in voided transmission warranties!
However, I bet they'd void your warranty on an SUV if you did half the things they show in their ads. I can only assume that they have teams of lawyers reviewing these ads and the fine print, and making sure they are OK.
Until someone with lots of money can take them on and win, I don't think we will have much luck.
</rant>
| suby_dude | 06-08-2004 11:09 PM |
to me... its simple.
you either make a performance car, or you don't.
don't void the warranty if someone actually goes out and test the 'performance' of the car.
but remember, it goes both ways.
don't put 350 whp to a car (designed for less than 200 whp) and expect to warranty it when the tranny goes.
the rule about 'timed event' is so ghey. becuase some can be at the weekend illegal drag and blow their tranny and be covered? and someone who goes to a sanctioned SCCA event is not... that's just ghey!
as you can see... both sides have a great arguement... we just need to find a middle ground for both the enthusiast... and the manufacturer... because the reality is... they both need each other.
later!
SD
you either make a performance car, or you don't.
don't void the warranty if someone actually goes out and test the 'performance' of the car.
but remember, it goes both ways.
don't put 350 whp to a car (designed for less than 200 whp) and expect to warranty it when the tranny goes.
the rule about 'timed event' is so ghey. becuase some can be at the weekend illegal drag and blow their tranny and be covered? and someone who goes to a sanctioned SCCA event is not... that's just ghey!
as you can see... both sides have a great arguement... we just need to find a middle ground for both the enthusiast... and the manufacturer... because the reality is... they both need each other.
later!
SD
| NotAnRS | 06-09-2004 07:05 AM |
Just got my premier issue of "Drive Performance". Pretty funny; there's a whole page spread about trying autocrossing and another 1/3 page about track lapping days. Seems to indicate they support such things.
Then in a tech article on the Sti 6 speed trans is this gem:
"Drag racing any vehicle exposes a drivetrain to forces well beyond those of normal day-to-day driving. These types of failures are not a consideration of any manufacturer's warranty. Sorry."
Then in a tech article on the Sti 6 speed trans is this gem:
"Drag racing any vehicle exposes a drivetrain to forces well beyond those of normal day-to-day driving. These types of failures are not a consideration of any manufacturer's warranty. Sorry."
| car39 | 06-09-2004 05:46 PM |
An application of brains can help here. We had a customer bring a WRX in for warranty transmission repair. He bragged to the female service writer about the 4 wheel drive wheelspin video he posted on the web and how great the car was with nitrous. The factory rep that was standing behind the service writer shot him down right there. Moral of the story: Brain used equaled warranty coverage: NONE!
| wrrrx | 06-09-2004 10:45 PM |
The whole episode is just sad and pathetic...
Anytime you might have to get lawyers involved... grief and stress are dead ahead.
Some application of brain power would indeed render a lot of this nonsense moot. For instance- I am now hearing the infamous "clunk" from my right rear suspension... BUT I went RallyCrossing over Memorial Day... and the car is still very very muddy. (I confess- I like it that way!! :) Hee hee!)
I might hafta take it in to the dealer- would I do that while it's still covered in mud?!? Ahhhh.. NO. :huh:
Now, the clunk was there [B]before[/B] I took it RallyXing- but there's no way to prove it. If I were them- would I believe me?
Prolly not...
Not signing my name,
It wasn't me- I wasn't there.
And if I was, I was borrowing my [i]good friend's identical car[/i]!!! :lol:
Anytime you might have to get lawyers involved... grief and stress are dead ahead.
Some application of brain power would indeed render a lot of this nonsense moot. For instance- I am now hearing the infamous "clunk" from my right rear suspension... BUT I went RallyCrossing over Memorial Day... and the car is still very very muddy. (I confess- I like it that way!! :) Hee hee!)
I might hafta take it in to the dealer- would I do that while it's still covered in mud?!? Ahhhh.. NO. :huh:
Now, the clunk was there [B]before[/B] I took it RallyXing- but there's no way to prove it. If I were them- would I believe me?
Prolly not...
Not signing my name,
It wasn't me- I wasn't there.
And if I was, I was borrowing my [i]good friend's identical car[/i]!!! :lol:
| nathansvt | 06-10-2004 12:33 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrrrx[/i]
[B] I am now hearing the infamous "clunk" from my right rear suspension... [/B][/QUOTE]
I've got that ... what is it?
[B] I am now hearing the infamous "clunk" from my right rear suspension... [/B][/QUOTE]
I've got that ... what is it?
| bigcale | 06-10-2004 05:02 PM |
That sucks, I found that read that thread on the evo forum. Had an s2k blew the engine so bought kid an evo(lucky kid), I sense a trend.
| busaru25 | 06-11-2004 01:25 AM |
merged threads
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okay- the subaru dealership I work at has had people with toothless gears come in and was going to pay for parts if the customer would admit to driving hard. mechanics are not stupid and big claims like that usually get a once over from someone that can tell abuse. take your punches or drive sanely.
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