| Jag32 | 06-29-2006 02:43 PM |
Heel-toe Help!
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I can heel-toe perfectly when i'm wearing my big wide running shoes, but my driving shoes are so narrow that I can't reach both pedals with each side of my foot. I really love wearing my driving shoes too because I have a much better feel of the car and my footwork is far more precise, but then again I can't heel-toe with them.
I hate the whole crooked leg "real" heel-toe method, but it seems I have no other options. What do you guys recommend I do? Are there any aftermarket pedal sets (i.e. Momo, etc.) which offer wider pedals to make heel-toeing easier and which of these pedal sets will bolt right up to an STI without any modification or drilling?
Thanks
I hate the whole crooked leg "real" heel-toe method, but it seems I have no other options. What do you guys recommend I do? Are there any aftermarket pedal sets (i.e. Momo, etc.) which offer wider pedals to make heel-toeing easier and which of these pedal sets will bolt right up to an STI without any modification or drilling?
Thanks
| KAX | 06-29-2006 02:47 PM |
[url]http://www.fastwrx.com/pdeadrape.html[/url]
PDE pedals, you can move them along the horizontal axis to get your prefered set up.
I beleive sparco also made a pedal with a hinged wing that you could slide out so your heel would catch it. I cant seem to find them though.
PDE pedals, you can move them along the horizontal axis to get your prefered set up.
I beleive sparco also made a pedal with a hinged wing that you could slide out so your heel would catch it. I cant seem to find them though.
| Jag32 | 06-29-2006 03:24 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX][url]http://www.fastwrx.com/pdeadrape.html[/url]
PDE pedals, you can move them along the horizontal axis to get your prefered set up.
I beleive sparco also made a pedal with a hinged wing that you could slide out so your heel would catch it. I cant seem to find them though.[/QUOTE]
$350, ouch! I was hoping to spend mabye $80 or so :lol:.
Thanks for the suggestion though, i'll definitely try and find more info about those Sparco's.
PDE pedals, you can move them along the horizontal axis to get your prefered set up.
I beleive sparco also made a pedal with a hinged wing that you could slide out so your heel would catch it. I cant seem to find them though.[/QUOTE]
$350, ouch! I was hoping to spend mabye $80 or so :lol:.
Thanks for the suggestion though, i'll definitely try and find more info about those Sparco's.
| REX8 | 06-29-2006 03:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Jag32]I can heel-toe perfectly when i'm wearing my big wide running shoes, but my driving shoes are so narrow that I can't reach both pedals with each side of my foot. I really love wearing my driving shoes too because I have a much better feel of the car and my footwork is far more precise, but then again I can't heel-toe with them.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Thats a bad way to do it anyway.
Start using your HEEL and your toe, instead of the right and left side of your foot.
You will get used to it, and its safer, as the chances of falling off the brake pedal are MUCH less...
Again, you will get used to it. Just give it a shot...
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Thats a bad way to do it anyway.
Start using your HEEL and your toe, instead of the right and left side of your foot.
You will get used to it, and its safer, as the chances of falling off the brake pedal are MUCH less...
Again, you will get used to it. Just give it a shot...
| Impreza01 | 06-29-2006 03:36 PM |
[QUOTE=Jag32]I hate the whole crooked leg "real" heel-toe method
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Just get use to turning your foot. Eventually you'll just get use to it and won't think about it (I was in this position 3 years ago).
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Just get use to turning your foot. Eventually you'll just get use to it and won't think about it (I was in this position 3 years ago).
| Student Driver | 06-29-2006 03:36 PM |
If you go to the PDE site, they're $225.
[url]http://www.pde-usa.com/parts/pedals.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.pde-usa.com/parts/pedals.htm[/url]
| WillisW555 | 06-29-2006 03:52 PM |
I have no problem reaching the pedal. I wear Puma Future cats or speedcats pretty much every day.
I use more of the 'sides of my feet' method, than my actual heel.
I use more of the 'sides of my feet' method, than my actual heel.
| Calamity Jesus | 06-29-2006 04:33 PM |
The $15-$20 APC sets at Pep Boys/Advance Auto/etc work fine. People might point and laugh but they're a common fix for crappy Ford pedals (1" width accelerator 6" from the brake). Get the black-on-black ones and nobody will ever know. They just bolt onto the pedals and you can move them left and right to get the brake and gas closer... then just bolt them down tight and bend the bolts around the back so that they don't come undone.
If you don't like them.. you're out $20 and 20 minutes.
[img]http://www.autopartsfair.com/images/products_small/accessories/apc1058010.jpg[/img]
If you don't like them.. you're out $20 and 20 minutes.
[img]http://www.autopartsfair.com/images/products_small/accessories/apc1058010.jpg[/img]
| justboosted02 | 06-29-2006 04:37 PM |
[QUOTE=WillisW555]I have no problem reaching the pedal. I wear Puma Future cats or speedcats pretty much every day.
I use more of the 'sides of my feet' method, than my actual heel.[/QUOTE]
i do this too, i put the ball of my foot on the brake and use the middle outside of my foot to work the gas. very easy to do
I use more of the 'sides of my feet' method, than my actual heel.[/QUOTE]
i do this too, i put the ball of my foot on the brake and use the middle outside of my foot to work the gas. very easy to do
| Jag32 | 06-29-2006 04:48 PM |
[QUOTE=Beaverboy]The $15-$20 APC sets at Pep Boys/Advance Auto/etc work fine. People might point and laugh but they're a common fix for crappy Ford pedals (1" width accelerator 6" from the brake). Get the black-on-black ones and nobody will ever know. They just bolt onto the pedals and you can move them left and right to get the brake and gas closer... then just bolt them down tight and bend the bolts around the back so that they don't come undone.
If you don't like them.. you're out $20 and 20 minutes.
[img]http://www.autopartsfair.com/images/products_small/accessories/apc1058010.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Do you have to take out the rubber "knobs" or whatever that are in the stock STI pedals or drill anything?
If you don't like them.. you're out $20 and 20 minutes.
[img]http://www.autopartsfair.com/images/products_small/accessories/apc1058010.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Do you have to take out the rubber "knobs" or whatever that are in the stock STI pedals or drill anything?
| jamesohoh7 | 06-29-2006 04:49 PM |
Usually, I like to start off with my heel, then rock forward onto my toes... I follow this with the other foot.
oh wait... you don't mean "walking heel-to-toe" do you?! :)
oh come on, someone had to!
back-on-topic: I too advocate doing it the crooked-legged way. I started by learning the 'wide-foot' way, but did have a few slip-off-the-brake instances and that was enough to scare me into doing it the right way. I'm still working on the technique, but I do instinctively turn my foot and reach with the heel. It took a while to make myself do that, but I think it'll pay off later.
oh wait... you don't mean "walking heel-to-toe" do you?! :)
oh come on, someone had to!
back-on-topic: I too advocate doing it the crooked-legged way. I started by learning the 'wide-foot' way, but did have a few slip-off-the-brake instances and that was enough to scare me into doing it the right way. I'm still working on the technique, but I do instinctively turn my foot and reach with the heel. It took a while to make myself do that, but I think it'll pay off later.
| bemani | 06-29-2006 05:17 PM |
The good STi pedals have a little tab that sticks out on the left side so it is easier to reach for H&T
| KAX | 06-29-2006 05:23 PM |
[QUOTE=jamesohoh7]back-on-topic: I too advocate doing it the crooked-legged way. I started by learning the 'wide-foot' way, but did have a few slip-off-the-brake instances and that was enough to scare me into doing it the right way. I'm still working on the technique, but I do instinctively turn my foot and reach with the heel. It took a while to make myself do that, but I think it'll pay off later.[/QUOTE]
thats where im at now. i still do the wide-foot way instinctively, but try to force myself to do it the right way so i dont miss the brake, or get the sole of my shoe caught under the gas, both have happened to me.
thats where im at now. i still do the wide-foot way instinctively, but try to force myself to do it the right way so i dont miss the brake, or get the sole of my shoe caught under the gas, both have happened to me.
| Impreza01 | 06-29-2006 05:39 PM |
[QUOTE=jamesohoh7]I too advocate doing it the crooked-legged way. I started by learning the 'wide-foot' way, but did have a few slip-off-the-brake instances and that was enough to scare me into doing it the right way.[/QUOTE]
Yup, pretty much the reason I do the actually twisting of the leg. I also had once instance where I accidentally mashed the brake and throttle at the same time because my foot was a little off-centered. Just do it the proper way.
Yup, pretty much the reason I do the actually twisting of the leg. I also had once instance where I accidentally mashed the brake and throttle at the same time because my foot was a little off-centered. Just do it the proper way.
| davis10 | 06-29-2006 07:14 PM |
you want pedal covers you can bolt them on in pretty much any position you want I have the cheapest sparco ones and they have a perfect sized wing on the gas, I do heel toe the "real" way but lately I have been doing the wide foot way with these adidas street shoes I have
| Jag32 | 06-29-2006 07:44 PM |
[QUOTE=davis10]you want pedal covers you can bolt them on in pretty much any position you want I have the cheapest sparco ones and they have a perfect sized wing on the gas, I do heel toe the "real" way but lately I have been doing the wide foot way with these adidas street shoes I have[/QUOTE]
How did you remove the gas pedal/pedal cover? I can easily get the clutch and gas ones off but the gas pedal seems impossible.
Did you just drill your sparco gas pedal into one of the plastic circles on the stock gas pedal, or did you actually take the whole thing off?
Thanks
How did you remove the gas pedal/pedal cover? I can easily get the clutch and gas ones off but the gas pedal seems impossible.
Did you just drill your sparco gas pedal into one of the plastic circles on the stock gas pedal, or did you actually take the whole thing off?
Thanks
| davis10 | 06-29-2006 07:48 PM |
I drilled the cover into the stock plastic pedal with a screw now the bolt that was included, I also put some washers under it to bring up my gas pedal so I dont have to dip my toe down as far. I works fine and is held on very solidly
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-29-2006 11:57 PM |
I didn't know the "twisted leg" was the real way- boy that would be difficult to change- no doubt.
| REX8 | 06-30-2006 11:30 AM |
[QUOTE=BIGSKYWRX]I didn't know the "twisted leg" was the real way- boy that would be difficult to change- no doubt.[/QUOTE]
Sure,
Thats why they call it "heel" "toe".
But you're right, its very difficult to change...
Sure,
Thats why they call it "heel" "toe".
But you're right, its very difficult to change...
| Jack | 06-30-2006 12:22 PM |
There's 3 ways to heel and toe (that I know of)
1) foot on brake and rock it over to blip the throttle (seems the most common)
2) toe on brake, heel blips bottom of gas
3) heel on brake, toe on top of gas
I use method #3 and as a driving instructor am usually driving students cars for the first few laps. Once you get used to it, I believe it's the best and safest method.
Why?
Once you get used to braking with your heel, it becomes natural on the track. You now have a good solid braking platform....which is the most important thing going on when you're doing this. Then, your toe is able to do more than just blip the throttle....you can modulate it since you've got the top of the gas pedal to work.
The only cars I have had any trouble with this method are early 911's with bottom hinged brake pedals and early BMW 2002's with bottom hinged brake pedals.
jack
1) foot on brake and rock it over to blip the throttle (seems the most common)
2) toe on brake, heel blips bottom of gas
3) heel on brake, toe on top of gas
I use method #3 and as a driving instructor am usually driving students cars for the first few laps. Once you get used to it, I believe it's the best and safest method.
Why?
Once you get used to braking with your heel, it becomes natural on the track. You now have a good solid braking platform....which is the most important thing going on when you're doing this. Then, your toe is able to do more than just blip the throttle....you can modulate it since you've got the top of the gas pedal to work.
The only cars I have had any trouble with this method are early 911's with bottom hinged brake pedals and early BMW 2002's with bottom hinged brake pedals.
jack
| theicewall | 06-30-2006 12:38 PM |
You dont need pedals... I have small ass feet and I can heel-toe perfectly. Its more about where you are putting your foot on the brake pedal. If you put your right foot such that the ball of the foot is on the right 1/3 of the pedal you get great feel of the pedal and dont really notice the fact that you arent using the whole pedal but you can totally rock your foot over to the accelerator. I dont bend my leg all cockeyed either, but rather only slightly angle my heel inward. My motion is much more like twisting your ankle in a a game of basketball when you stop side stepping and roll your heel over and fall to the side. Sorry, best way I could explain it without using words like medial intorsion... but anyway I just rock it that way and its more than suitable. Sit in your car for about 5 minutes with the car on and get on the brake... then just rock your foot over a good 50 times while looking at the tach to only rev up 1,500rpms..... that's usually all you need but if you are harder on the brakes or are skipping a gear you can rock twice as hard and your are golden.
Doing an opposite heel-toe like jack recommends isnt a bad idea if you are having trouble, but I would have to relearn a whole bunch and I think that while you are braking you want to have more modulatory control over the brake to steady the car since you arent giving throttle inputs for the sake of accelerating but rather for matching a rotating speed. If you like jack's way it sounds like a great idea but I just have so much better feel with the ball of my foot and ankle and would feel completely awkward lifting my leg up the opposite way... its very bow legged.
Doing an opposite heel-toe like jack recommends isnt a bad idea if you are having trouble, but I would have to relearn a whole bunch and I think that while you are braking you want to have more modulatory control over the brake to steady the car since you arent giving throttle inputs for the sake of accelerating but rather for matching a rotating speed. If you like jack's way it sounds like a great idea but I just have so much better feel with the ball of my foot and ankle and would feel completely awkward lifting my leg up the opposite way... its very bow legged.
| 2.5 Rookie | 06-30-2006 08:25 PM |
Watch Best Motoring Videos. Seriously. They have the camera in the footwell and shows exactly what you need to be doing.
I used to do the left/right rocking motion with my feet, but after watching the videos a few years back and driving around for a few minutes, I can heel and toe with the balls of my feet 100% on the middle of the brake pedal because the brakes ARE the most important part of the whole operation.
The throttle blip doesn't have to be as precise as most people think it is. One of the things I learned from HPDEs is that as long as you can blip the engine to an rpm level faster than what is needed for the downshift, then it's easier to coordinate the actual clutch release since you are "matching" the revs as the rpms are on the way back down.
That's my $0.02. I hope it makes sense.
I used to do the left/right rocking motion with my feet, but after watching the videos a few years back and driving around for a few minutes, I can heel and toe with the balls of my feet 100% on the middle of the brake pedal because the brakes ARE the most important part of the whole operation.
The throttle blip doesn't have to be as precise as most people think it is. One of the things I learned from HPDEs is that as long as you can blip the engine to an rpm level faster than what is needed for the downshift, then it's easier to coordinate the actual clutch release since you are "matching" the revs as the rpms are on the way back down.
That's my $0.02. I hope it makes sense.
| theicewall | 06-30-2006 09:20 PM |
I agree... I have a video of the "drift king" (im not even going to try and spell his name but it has an H in it) and the video cam box on his feet is very valuable. It really is jt a flinging of the heel over at the throttle and it doesnt have to be all that precise but feel and repetition will allow it to be predictable as to how much blip you will get. If you over blip or underblip its okay as long as you are close, you arent asking the drivetrain to speed the engine up or down if you are very close and it can be smooth as silk. I learned on a motorcycle because you cant downshift any other way without locking the rear and crashing except that you have to brake and throttle blip with the same hand and thats pretty hard because when you blip you are pulling harder on the brake lever... anyway... i digress.. sorry.
| Foxy | 07-01-2006 11:36 AM |
[QUOTE=KAX][url]http://www.fastwrx.com/pdeadrape.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Did anyone else see "deadrape.html" and think, "I don't really want to click that.."?
Did anyone else see "deadrape.html" and think, "I don't really want to click that.."?
| theicewall | 07-01-2006 02:01 PM |
^^ yeah, I still havent clicked it.... plus fastwrx is a vendor and pde makes pedals that are adjustable so I already know what's going to be on that page when I click it.
| Jag32 | 07-01-2006 02:39 PM |
[QUOTE=Foxy]Did anyone else see "deadrape.html" and think, "I don't really want to click that.."?[/QUOTE]
:huh:
:huh:
| GarySheehan | 07-01-2006 05:20 PM |
This video is getting a bit long in the tooth, but may help some folks...
[url]http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox%20Small.wmv[/url]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
[url]http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox%20Small.wmv[/url]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Jag32 | 07-01-2006 06:19 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]This video is getting a bit long in the tooth, but may help some folks...
[url]http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox%20Small.wmv[/url]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
WOW, that video was amazing, now I know EXACTLY what I have to do.
Thanks a ton.
[url]http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox%20Small.wmv[/url]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
WOW, that video was amazing, now I know EXACTLY what I have to do.
Thanks a ton.
| theicewall | 07-01-2006 06:40 PM |
Gary is a great driver, and his double clutched with Heel and Toe downshift at the end of the long straight 5-4-3-2, is sooooooo crisp.
| siopao2000 | 07-02-2006 02:54 PM |
I watched this a few times to get a general idea:
[URL=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3243802149629710308&q=best+motoring+ae86]*click*[/URL]
Gary Sheehan's footwork is amazing! :eek:
[URL=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3243802149629710308&q=best+motoring+ae86]*click*[/URL]
Gary Sheehan's footwork is amazing! :eek:
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