| RaceComp Engineering | 07-12-2005 05:54 PM |
IMSA STI CUP series...............oh yeah baby.
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IMSA needs to recognize the market value in having a spec series using the most influential rally car of the last 10 years, used on road courses.
I think a IMSA STI cup car series would secure the fate and success of the asscociation. As the viewers get older, they can watch the regular series.
Cars would be spec-ed like the 944 turbo cup cars of the mid eighties were.
1. OPEN EXHAUST and Modified ECU. Limited to 350 crank hp.
2. Brake Ducts would be a spec part.
3. Pads would be spec- Project Mu or Endless pads.
4. Bilstein, Ohlins and Moton would produce threaded body dampers with a narrow range of spring rates.
4. Stock sway bars.
5. Prodrive group-n spec cages to ensure safety first.
6. Allow Michelin, Yokohama, Pirelli and Goodyear to produce a spec tire.
7. Use STI V-limited fronts and CF rear spoilers as the spec wings
8. Brembo monoblock calipers as spec brakes. 335mm rotors.
9. curb weight of 3000 lbs
10. fields would be limited to 45 cars with 5 guest drivers.
These would be support races for ALMS. And NO 1313 rule like the Porsches have. we want to see some fenders torn off. ;)
Maybe this series would accompany the JGTC series once it has 2 races a year in the states...........
I like this format. Ok, now, give me the reality check and flame me ......
let the flaming begin......................... :p
Myles
I think a IMSA STI cup car series would secure the fate and success of the asscociation. As the viewers get older, they can watch the regular series.
Cars would be spec-ed like the 944 turbo cup cars of the mid eighties were.
1. OPEN EXHAUST and Modified ECU. Limited to 350 crank hp.
2. Brake Ducts would be a spec part.
3. Pads would be spec- Project Mu or Endless pads.
4. Bilstein, Ohlins and Moton would produce threaded body dampers with a narrow range of spring rates.
4. Stock sway bars.
5. Prodrive group-n spec cages to ensure safety first.
6. Allow Michelin, Yokohama, Pirelli and Goodyear to produce a spec tire.
7. Use STI V-limited fronts and CF rear spoilers as the spec wings
8. Brembo monoblock calipers as spec brakes. 335mm rotors.
9. curb weight of 3000 lbs
10. fields would be limited to 45 cars with 5 guest drivers.
These would be support races for ALMS. And NO 1313 rule like the Porsches have. we want to see some fenders torn off. ;)
Maybe this series would accompany the JGTC series once it has 2 races a year in the states...........
I like this format. Ok, now, give me the reality check and flame me ......
let the flaming begin......................... :p
Myles
| trhoppe | 07-12-2005 05:58 PM |
Here is my take on the rules
1) Good
2) Good
3) Run whatever pads you want, cannot restrict that
4) Also no restriction.
5) Spec Cage = crap. I want a custom one
6) ONE spec tire, not many
7) Good
8) Good
9) Good
10) Good
0.00000001% chance of it happening
But if you make it, you have 1 100% guaranteed entrant in me ;)
-Tom
PS. 1313 is a *good* thing
1) Good
2) Good
3) Run whatever pads you want, cannot restrict that
4) Also no restriction.
5) Spec Cage = crap. I want a custom one
6) ONE spec tire, not many
7) Good
8) Good
9) Good
10) Good
0.00000001% chance of it happening
But if you make it, you have 1 100% guaranteed entrant in me ;)
-Tom
PS. 1313 is a *good* thing
| DILLIGAF Racing | 07-12-2005 05:58 PM |
2 cool IMSA series at once...damn I need more money
| Kha0S | 07-12-2005 06:00 PM |
[QUOTE=RaceComp Engineering]
5. Prodrive group-n spec cages to ensure safety first.
...
These would be support races for ALMS. And NO 1313 rule like the Porsches have. we want to see some fenders torn off. ;)
[/QUOTE]
Group N cages are [i]totally[/i] designed for the bump-and-grind world of "torn fender" road racing. :rolleyes:
I think it's a neat idea, but series like that generally need pretty serious manufacturer involvement/support, and Subaru's focus has never been on road racing.
/Andrew
5. Prodrive group-n spec cages to ensure safety first.
...
These would be support races for ALMS. And NO 1313 rule like the Porsches have. we want to see some fenders torn off. ;)
[/QUOTE]
Group N cages are [i]totally[/i] designed for the bump-and-grind world of "torn fender" road racing. :rolleyes:
I think it's a neat idea, but series like that generally need pretty serious manufacturer involvement/support, and Subaru's focus has never been on road racing.
/Andrew
| RaceComp Engineering | 07-12-2005 11:22 PM |
"........Dream a little dream........." ;)
Myles
Myles
| RaceComp Engineering | 07-12-2005 11:23 PM |
I know, I just wanted some thoughts,,,...I know its a totally flawed Idea, but man ......" what if ".........
mw
mw
| Chaste Automotive | 07-13-2005 03:21 AM |
trhoppe "spec cages are crap" sorry but an engineered spec cage is infinitely better than most of the "custom cages" that people dream up. IN addition to this most "custom cages" are blatant copies of WRC and Group N cages so what is the point?
| RaceComp Engineering | 07-13-2005 08:46 AM |
[QUOTE=Chaste Automotive]trhoppe "spec cages are crap" sorry but an engineered spec cage is infinitely better than most of the "custom cages" that people dream up. IN addition to this most "custom cages" are blatant copies of WRC and Group N cages so what is the point?[/QUOTE]
If I had to be in a Subaru when it rolled , I would rather it be a Group-n spec, Prodrive built tub. PERIOD. I have seen them as a shell and feel it would save my life. Alot of people build cages and alot of good drivers keep the wheels on the grond, but rally guys dont seem to as much, so that was my reason........ ;)
I agree with Jeff.
If I had to be in a Subaru when it rolled , I would rather it be a Group-n spec, Prodrive built tub. PERIOD. I have seen them as a shell and feel it would save my life. Alot of people build cages and alot of good drivers keep the wheels on the grond, but rally guys dont seem to as much, so that was my reason........ ;)
I agree with Jeff.
| RaceComp Engineering | 07-13-2005 08:50 AM |
In all fairness, I never said who's "spec cage" it would be. In the early seventies when Penske and Porsche Motorsport ( AL Holbert ) hooked up they built some very impressive 911s with factory help, the cages were like tanks and lightweight. In the later years, the 934 ran a alloy cage and high polished at that. That was banned many years later.
MW
MW
| trhoppe | 07-13-2005 09:31 AM |
I meant to say the "spec" part of it is crap, sorry ;) I'm sure that you can spec a good cage, but I might want some options that aren't spec or whatever. Lets say I want nascar bars to give myself some room, or I don't want nascar bars so I can keep my windows, etc.
-Tom
-Tom
| RaceComp Engineering | 07-13-2005 09:41 AM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]I meant to say the "spec" part of it is crap, sorry ;) I'm sure that you can spec a good cage, but I might want some options that aren't spec or whatever. Lets say I want nascar bars to give myself some room, or I don't want nascar bars so I can keep my windows, etc.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Tom I see your point. Agreed. :)
As I always say.."its all good"........ :D
Myles
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Tom I see your point. Agreed. :)
As I always say.."its all good"........ :D
Myles
| REX8 | 07-13-2005 10:19 AM |
[QUOTE=Kha0S]Group N cages are [i]totally[/i] designed for the bump-and-grind world of "torn fender" road racing. :rolleyes:
I think it's a neat idea, but series like that generally need pretty serious manufacturer involvement/support, and Subaru's focus has never been on road racing.
/Andrew[/QUOTE]
Thats pretty much because AWD cars are not "ideal" for road racing. You can make them work, but in the end, a 2wd counterpart is going to be a little faster...
I think it's a neat idea, but series like that generally need pretty serious manufacturer involvement/support, and Subaru's focus has never been on road racing.
/Andrew[/QUOTE]
Thats pretty much because AWD cars are not "ideal" for road racing. You can make them work, but in the end, a 2wd counterpart is going to be a little faster...
| gregr01 | 07-13-2005 10:38 AM |
[QUOTE]Thats pretty much because AWD cars are not "ideal" for road racing. You can make them work, but in the end, a 2wd counterpart is going to be a little faster...[/QUOTE] There are very knowledable folks at IMSA, SCCA Pro & Audi that would strongly disagree with this statement.
| Clavo | 07-13-2005 11:04 AM |
^^^^^^
+1
[QUOTE=REX8]Thats pretty much because AWD cars are not "ideal" for road racing. You can make them work, but in the end, a 2wd counterpart is going to be a little faster...[/QUOTE]
Wasn't the bannination of the Audi's in the late 80's because they were too slow ? ?
+1
[QUOTE=REX8]Thats pretty much because AWD cars are not "ideal" for road racing. You can make them work, but in the end, a 2wd counterpart is going to be a little faster...[/QUOTE]
Wasn't the bannination of the Audi's in the late 80's because they were too slow ? ?
| trhoppe | 07-13-2005 11:17 AM |
[QUOTE=REX8]Thats pretty much because AWD cars are not "ideal" for road racing. You can make them work, but in the end, a 2wd counterpart is going to be a little faster...[/QUOTE]
:huh: Are you serious?
:huh: Are you serious?
| C Stoyer | 07-13-2005 01:19 PM |
Hurely Haywood won the 1988 Trans Am championship driving an all-wheel-drive Audi 200 Turbo Quattro. Slow I think not.
| GravelRash | 07-13-2005 06:29 PM |
Or, more recently, look at the Speed GT Audis...before they got stuffed with so much reward weight for their efforts.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 07-13-2005 06:44 PM |
wasn't just that. They also got the shaft on tire size choice, which DRASTICALLY screwed with tire life. Hopefully Champion gives it another go when the new RS6 comes out.
| GravelRash | 07-13-2005 07:35 PM |
Yeah, I know, plus restrictor reduction iirc. Love to see them try it again too.
| goto_racing | 07-13-2005 07:41 PM |
I wouldn't say AWD is down and out faster, than other drive setups. One of the first things we learned when we started AWD was just how many liabilities it had for road racing. But like any car, once you discover the benifits, and tune and drive for those, you can make any car go fast. I can see the AWD frustrating the setups and techniques of die-hard rwd and awd teams.
My opinion, the AWD is not so great for low speed corners. It's harder to rotate than most cars, so it is not as agile.
But that stability pays off 10x in highspeed corners and elements like esses and chicanes. The AWD inpsires so much confidence in our driver, that we always blow the competition away here.
Right now, we have hit a great setup, and I can say that in USTCC at least, awd is the way to go. I am really excited about continuing to work with AWD in the future. Maybe I should sell my honda and get a legacy...
Chris Lock
My opinion, the AWD is not so great for low speed corners. It's harder to rotate than most cars, so it is not as agile.
But that stability pays off 10x in highspeed corners and elements like esses and chicanes. The AWD inpsires so much confidence in our driver, that we always blow the competition away here.
Right now, we have hit a great setup, and I can say that in USTCC at least, awd is the way to go. I am really excited about continuing to work with AWD in the future. Maybe I should sell my honda and get a legacy...
Chris Lock
| turboICE | 07-13-2005 08:25 PM |
[QUOTE=RaceComp Engineering]1. OPEN EXHAUST and Modified ECU. Limited to 350 crank hp.
2. Brake Ducts would be a spec part.
3. Pads would be spec- Project Mu or Endless pads.
4. Bilstein, Ohlins and Moton would produce threaded body dampers with a narrow range of spring rates.
4. Stock sway bars.
5. Prodrive group-n spec cages to ensure safety first.
6. Allow Michelin, Yokohama, Pirelli and Goodyear to produce a spec tire.
7. Use STI V-limited fronts and CF rear spoilers as the spec wings
8. Brembo monoblock calipers as spec brakes. 335mm rotors.
9. curb weight of 3000 lbs
10. fields would be limited to 45 cars with 5 guest drivers.[/QUOTE]
I like the idea a lot.
1. Spec exhaust and spec Ecutek flashed ECU - easier to manage and monitor level performance.
3. Pads should be open.
4a. One spec adjustable damper - free springs
4b. FSB should be open given the car's handling (and STi castored LCA should be spec)
5. Set minimums for cage specs - but free beyond that and any additional safety increase of the cage desired by the team.
6. One spec DOT dry and wet tire - better pricing given the field sizes. Bridgestone should also be allowed to offer a bid.
7. Given the potential for contact front should be spec'd to a manufacturer - lip is too pricey and availability could become an issue.
9. Spec weight with driver - I agree with Carrol - guys of substance should not be penalized for teams with jockey drivers.
Parts should be interchangeable between models - i.e. upgrade 04 to 05 specs.
SOA prize money sponsorship.
Oh and run the EC big boys - full VIR, full Glen (especially with bus stop fixed to allow STi's to make 130mph runs through it and the real braking on the following right hander :devil: ) and SP main.
2. Brake Ducts would be a spec part.
3. Pads would be spec- Project Mu or Endless pads.
4. Bilstein, Ohlins and Moton would produce threaded body dampers with a narrow range of spring rates.
4. Stock sway bars.
5. Prodrive group-n spec cages to ensure safety first.
6. Allow Michelin, Yokohama, Pirelli and Goodyear to produce a spec tire.
7. Use STI V-limited fronts and CF rear spoilers as the spec wings
8. Brembo monoblock calipers as spec brakes. 335mm rotors.
9. curb weight of 3000 lbs
10. fields would be limited to 45 cars with 5 guest drivers.[/QUOTE]
I like the idea a lot.
1. Spec exhaust and spec Ecutek flashed ECU - easier to manage and monitor level performance.
3. Pads should be open.
4a. One spec adjustable damper - free springs
4b. FSB should be open given the car's handling (and STi castored LCA should be spec)
5. Set minimums for cage specs - but free beyond that and any additional safety increase of the cage desired by the team.
6. One spec DOT dry and wet tire - better pricing given the field sizes. Bridgestone should also be allowed to offer a bid.
7. Given the potential for contact front should be spec'd to a manufacturer - lip is too pricey and availability could become an issue.
9. Spec weight with driver - I agree with Carrol - guys of substance should not be penalized for teams with jockey drivers.
Parts should be interchangeable between models - i.e. upgrade 04 to 05 specs.
SOA prize money sponsorship.
Oh and run the EC big boys - full VIR, full Glen (especially with bus stop fixed to allow STi's to make 130mph runs through it and the real braking on the following right hander :devil: ) and SP main.
| turboICE | 07-13-2005 08:30 PM |
[QUOTE=goto_racing]My opinion, the AWD is not so great for low speed corners. It's harder to rotate than most cars, so it is not as agile.[/QUOTE]
Not so much so properly setup and driven - my STi was plenty agile and I could go from entry to exit as fast or faster than any car with similar power:weight and suspension performance level and tire once I had the seat time. The thing is AWD is usually weight penalized almost everywhere you go to race it against RWD/FWD currently...
Not so much so properly setup and driven - my STi was plenty agile and I could go from entry to exit as fast or faster than any car with similar power:weight and suspension performance level and tire once I had the seat time. The thing is AWD is usually weight penalized almost everywhere you go to race it against RWD/FWD currently...
| goto_racing | 07-13-2005 08:55 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE] ...The thing is AWD is usually weight penalized almost everywhere you go to race it against RWD/FWD currently...[/QUOTE]
That is very true :), and that may be why we are comparitively slower in those tight corners, not the AWD. Good point.
That is very true :), and that may be why we are comparitively slower in those tight corners, not the AWD. Good point.
| RaceComp Engineering | 07-13-2005 10:17 PM |
I am lovin this thread..keep it goin guys..... :D :banana: :disco:
Myles
Myles
| B Esquire | 07-14-2005 02:42 AM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]Not so much so properly setup and driven - my STi was plenty agile and I could go from entry to exit as fast or faster than any car with similar power:weight and suspension performance level and tire once I had the seat time. The thing is AWD is usually weight penalized almost everywhere you go to race it against RWD/FWD currently...[/QUOTE]
Remeber also that your STi has a different center diff that allows you to bias power to the rear wheels. Our car runs the stock WRX tranny, we are 50/50.
Remeber also that your STi has a different center diff that allows you to bias power to the rear wheels. Our car runs the stock WRX tranny, we are 50/50.
| AlpineFD | 07-14-2005 06:13 AM |
So what makes having a STi spec race attractive to the viewers? and the race teams? outside of subaru community.
| Clavo | 07-14-2005 10:01 AM |
[QUOTE=AlpineFD]So what makes having a STi spec race attractive to the viewers? and the race teams? outside of subaru community.[/QUOTE]
^^^
{bullet ricochet sound} pa-twing {/bullet ricochet sound} :devil:
^^^
{bullet ricochet sound} pa-twing {/bullet ricochet sound} :devil:
| CBRDSpeedfactory | 07-14-2005 11:01 AM |
one thing i would definetly limit is suspension and brakes...
they allow for sooo much room for performance gains....we had a pad in the formula mazda series that was only available to us for 3 races...man it made a difference....
and u HAVE to spec dampers...should be a slightly adjustable (rebound damper) with choice of 3 springs rate (pairs)..
cb
they allow for sooo much room for performance gains....we had a pad in the formula mazda series that was only available to us for 3 races...man it made a difference....
and u HAVE to spec dampers...should be a slightly adjustable (rebound damper) with choice of 3 springs rate (pairs)..
cb
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