| trojan9x | 02-13-2002 01:35 PM |
Is the proECM or TCII legal for STS
i just need some clarification on this because i'm getting mixed reviews on it.
if it is, great, if it isn't, tell me why please.
thanks
#319 STS
if it is, great, if it isn't, tell me why please.
thanks
#319 STS
| omahasubaru | 02-13-2002 02:21 PM |
yes it is legal :D
| trojan9x | 02-13-2002 03:00 PM |
100% positive?
[url]http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144340[/url]
[url]http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144340[/url]
| Faraz | 02-13-2002 03:15 PM |
Engine management systems may be modified by the following means only. For the purpose of these rules the engine management system consists of two parts: the fuel control system and the ignition control system. Each system may be modified by either electronic or mechanical means but not both.
Electronic means to modify the engine management system are permitted by use of altered engine control computers and the installation of piggyback control devices such as VTEC Controllers and ignition controllers. Ignition amplifiers (MSD, etc.) that do not actively control timing are not considered "controllers" and are not permitted.
To me that shows two reasons why it wouldn't be.
You can change either timing or ignition systems not both.
the other thing is that the voltage clamp non-actively controls timing so then it wouldn't be considered a "controller" so not permitted.
Our region is tough and goes by the book so there is not way we'd let something like that just slide.
Philly Region
SCCA Solo II
#77 STS
#77 DSP (soon hopefully!)
Electronic means to modify the engine management system are permitted by use of altered engine control computers and the installation of piggyback control devices such as VTEC Controllers and ignition controllers. Ignition amplifiers (MSD, etc.) that do not actively control timing are not considered "controllers" and are not permitted.
To me that shows two reasons why it wouldn't be.
You can change either timing or ignition systems not both.
the other thing is that the voltage clamp non-actively controls timing so then it wouldn't be considered a "controller" so not permitted.
Our region is tough and goes by the book so there is not way we'd let something like that just slide.
Philly Region
SCCA Solo II
#77 STS
#77 DSP (soon hopefully!)
| Tony | 02-13-2002 03:22 PM |
*Post removed. I'm an idiot.*
Tony
Tony
| DanzBorin | 02-13-2002 03:23 PM |
That means you can modify either/or ignition and timing. The 'not by both refers to electronically and mechanically. You can electronically modify timing and ignition, but you cannot electronically and mechanically modify ignition (or timing) at the same time. You just read the rules wrong. Yes it is legal by SCCA STS rules.
| Tony | 02-13-2002 03:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DanzBorin [/i]
[B]...electronically and manually.[/B][/QUOTE]
That's 'mechanically' not 'manually'. i.e.: altering timing by adjusting your distributor cap (if you have one, we don't) would be a mechanical adjustment.
Tony
[B]...electronically and manually.[/B][/QUOTE]
That's 'mechanically' not 'manually'. i.e.: altering timing by adjusting your distributor cap (if you have one, we don't) would be a mechanical adjustment.
Tony
| DanzBorin | 02-13-2002 03:37 PM |
I'm with tony, i are n idjit too! :D
Brain fart... Meant to type mechanically, but didn't... I understand what they are saying, just wanted to state that you can alter both ignition and timing, just not both [I]mechanically[/I] and electronically. ;)
Brain fart... Meant to type mechanically, but didn't... I understand what they are saying, just wanted to state that you can alter both ignition and timing, just not both [I]mechanically[/I] and electronically. ;)
| Tony | 02-13-2002 03:43 PM |
No worries, I understood what you meant (Faraz is an idiot, etc ;) ).
Tony
Tony
| freq | 02-13-2002 03:49 PM |
If other piggyback ecu's are legal in STS for RS's,
Is a unichip legal in street prepared for the wrx if it does not modify factory boost? (i.e. leave the manual boost controller out of the vishnu kit)
the vishnu stage0 kit consists of:
up-pipe,
underdrive pulley
different spark plugs,
Unichip piggyback engine management
thanks!
Is a unichip legal in street prepared for the wrx if it does not modify factory boost? (i.e. leave the manual boost controller out of the vishnu kit)
the vishnu stage0 kit consists of:
up-pipe,
underdrive pulley
different spark plugs,
Unichip piggyback engine management
thanks!
| DanzBorin | 02-13-2002 04:09 PM |
Maybe, but most unichips still increase boost... Just run SM, or if they have a regional ST class that allows boost, go for that. For example Houston region has STU, which allows higher boost. If you can afford the R compound tires SM isn't near as bad as it sounds. ;)
| trojan9x | 02-13-2002 04:27 PM |
thanks tony for clearing it up..i was told to ask you and i was if i didn't get a clear answer here
looks good to go then..just have to get the funds :)
looks good to go then..just have to get the funds :)
| Tony | 02-13-2002 04:34 PM |
It may be legal but it doesn't make it a good idea. Especially dealing with JC Sports *shiver*. It isn't going to do crap for autox times. Spend your money on either making yourself a better driver or on making your car turn better.
Just my $0.02.
Also about the UniChip for the WRX in STX. Sure you can use it if you can get them to make you one that doesn't effect boost. But then why would you spend that kinda money for 2 hp. Car prep for STS and STX is 99% handling/grip and 1% horsepower. Don't piss away money on horsepower when it can be better spent elsewhere.
Tony
P.S. Spend money on handling not horsepower. Is there an echo in here?
P.P.S. The Up-pipe isn't legal for STX. You have to keep the same number of cats and it's still being debated by the rule lawyers if you can even touch the up-pipe since it could be considered part of the engine (the rules say the exhuast system starts [b]after[/b] the turbo.
Just my $0.02.
Also about the UniChip for the WRX in STX. Sure you can use it if you can get them to make you one that doesn't effect boost. But then why would you spend that kinda money for 2 hp. Car prep for STS and STX is 99% handling/grip and 1% horsepower. Don't piss away money on horsepower when it can be better spent elsewhere.
Tony
P.S. Spend money on handling not horsepower. Is there an echo in here?
P.P.S. The Up-pipe isn't legal for STX. You have to keep the same number of cats and it's still being debated by the rule lawyers if you can even touch the up-pipe since it could be considered part of the engine (the rules say the exhuast system starts [b]after[/b] the turbo.
| Faraz | 02-13-2002 04:55 PM |
Ok reason number gone BUT what about #2?
[QUOTE]the other thing is that the voltage clamp non-actively controls timing so then it wouldn't be considered a "controller" so not permitted. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]the other thing is that the voltage clamp non-actively controls timing so then it wouldn't be considered a "controller" so not permitted. [/QUOTE]
| DanzBorin | 02-13-2002 05:01 PM |
I don't think you have to use the voltage clamp...
I have a my99, so I don't use it at all.
I want the chip to make the car run better. It provides midrange torque, and I want this. Yes I do autocross, but i do drive the car other places too...;)
BTW, JC sports is gone, and the chip is made by other folks...:D
I have a my99, so I don't use it at all.
I want the chip to make the car run better. It provides midrange torque, and I want this. Yes I do autocross, but i do drive the car other places too...;)
BTW, JC sports is gone, and the chip is made by other folks...:D
| trojan9x | 02-13-2002 05:09 PM |
ProECM is made by a different company than the TCII
install is much easier as well
still no numbers though
and my car handles fine the way it is (well besides having the RE92's on for the winter) ;)
i wouldn't get coilovers unless
a. i had an endless wallet
b. was not just racing auto-x (road coarse, rally)
c. thought it would help that much more than what i already have (meaning as drastic a change as from going from stock to Type RA suspension)
and i'm getting Azenis for the summer (best for STS for the money)
install is much easier as well
still no numbers though
and my car handles fine the way it is (well besides having the RE92's on for the winter) ;)
i wouldn't get coilovers unless
a. i had an endless wallet
b. was not just racing auto-x (road coarse, rally)
c. thought it would help that much more than what i already have (meaning as drastic a change as from going from stock to Type RA suspension)
and i'm getting Azenis for the summer (best for STS for the money)
| Faraz | 02-13-2002 10:46 PM |
MY99 do not need the voltage clamp ...but 00+ do
| freq | 02-13-2002 11:06 PM |
Handling -vs- Horsepower
Aah yes, the motorsports forum myth :) -maybe i've been hangin out in factory forced induction too much hehhe- really though i think your path to modification depends on your goals. My path right now is cheap 17's with decent rubber, upgraded brake pads and the uppipe/pulley/chip thing from vishnu. I think it will be way more fun than if i spent the equivalent on coilovers and decent tires for the stock wheels. coilovers are in the budget for next year. I'm runnin in whatever prepared class they stick me in... i'll just remove the boost controller for autox days. I don't feel like running in modified where there are only 2 other cars that show up on trailers...
Faster spool up and stronger midrange are a bigger advantage on the dinky little autocross courses we have around here. especially for those really slow spots where you just can't quite justify downshifting into 1st... been there? yeah. as for track days, well i'm not quite confident enough to track my daily driven car just yet.
Aah yes, the motorsports forum myth :) -maybe i've been hangin out in factory forced induction too much hehhe- really though i think your path to modification depends on your goals. My path right now is cheap 17's with decent rubber, upgraded brake pads and the uppipe/pulley/chip thing from vishnu. I think it will be way more fun than if i spent the equivalent on coilovers and decent tires for the stock wheels. coilovers are in the budget for next year. I'm runnin in whatever prepared class they stick me in... i'll just remove the boost controller for autox days. I don't feel like running in modified where there are only 2 other cars that show up on trailers...
Faster spool up and stronger midrange are a bigger advantage on the dinky little autocross courses we have around here. especially for those really slow spots where you just can't quite justify downshifting into 1st... been there? yeah. as for track days, well i'm not quite confident enough to track my daily driven car just yet.
| omahasubaru | 02-14-2002 08:41 AM |
[size=4]Power is nothing without traction![/size]
Once you've done your handling mods and got some good tires, then you can bother for more power.. however if auto-x is a hobby, then I can understand why power is more important, just don't be upset when someone running in GS/DS with a RS or WRX with nothing but R compounds runs better times... :D
Once you've done your handling mods and got some good tires, then you can bother for more power.. however if auto-x is a hobby, then I can understand why power is more important, just don't be upset when someone running in GS/DS with a RS or WRX with nothing but R compounds runs better times... :D
| trojan9x | 02-14-2002 08:49 AM |
the only thing holding me back right now is tires (but it's winter so i'm not too worried). and the fact that i only run maybe 7 events so far so i'm still new.
i want to get the most potential out of my car for the class.
and if STR was still around i would of joined that
i want to get the most potential out of my car for the class.
and if STR was still around i would of joined that
| Tony | 02-14-2002 09:13 AM |
*hypnotically waves hand* [i]Come to DSP, come to DSP...[/i]
Tony
Tony
| trojan9x | 02-14-2002 09:38 AM |
is that where you're going?
| Tony | 02-14-2002 11:13 AM |
Yep, I've got some 15x7 Kosei K1's I'm going to mount some V700's on.
I haven't decided what to do about autoxing this Summer though. I can only make about half of the Philly events (I'm not driving to Nazareth from Baltimore). And I'd like to see if I can make a full season with the DC region amd kick some arse there. We'll see.
Tony
I haven't decided what to do about autoxing this Summer though. I can only make about half of the Philly events (I'm not driving to Nazareth from Baltimore). And I'd like to see if I can make a full season with the DC region amd kick some arse there. We'll see.
Tony
| Tony | 02-14-2002 11:49 AM |
P.S. Screw the TCII you can go [b]TEC II[/b] in DSP :)
| zzyzx | 02-14-2002 12:01 PM |
Voltage clamp is to keep the MAP/MAF signal to 1 BAR max. If you connect the voltage clamp on a non-turbo car it will effectively do nothing. The voltage clamp is only there to trick the ECU to think there is at max 1 BAR of pressure so the pressure caused by the (aftermarket) turbo does not confuse the ECU.
The voltage clamp does not have to be wired in to any NA setup, regardless of model year.
Since a turbo is not allowed in STS, the voltage clamp issue is moot.
- Steve
The voltage clamp does not have to be wired in to any NA setup, regardless of model year.
Since a turbo is not allowed in STS, the voltage clamp issue is moot.
- Steve
| Corey | 02-14-2002 12:52 PM |
Tom,
Why would you go to STR just to run some R-compounds? There were only 2 drives in STR last year anyway. Just come to SM with me and we can beat up on the WRX's and Turbo RS's.
Corey
Why would you go to STR just to run some R-compounds? There were only 2 drives in STR last year anyway. Just come to SM with me and we can beat up on the WRX's and Turbo RS's.
Corey
| trojan9x | 02-14-2002 02:01 PM |
i would of gone to STR (if it was still a class) because i don't have the mods to compete in SM. if i had a turbo, then hey, i'd be all over it.
STR was just STS with R compounds.
STR was just STS with R compounds.
| Corey | 02-14-2002 03:55 PM |
Wow Tom, is that what STR was?:p
My point was that there wasn't much competition in our area in STR. I'd rather be in a class with more than 2 drivers.
Anyway, back to the discussion about voltage clamps and such... I'll just throw in my .02 Without knowing how the chip actually works, (nobody will tell us) I don't see how you can rule it legal or illegal. If somebody thinks that it might be doing X and you can't disprove them, how can you defend against it in a protest?
Corey
My point was that there wasn't much competition in our area in STR. I'd rather be in a class with more than 2 drivers.
Anyway, back to the discussion about voltage clamps and such... I'll just throw in my .02 Without knowing how the chip actually works, (nobody will tell us) I don't see how you can rule it legal or illegal. If somebody thinks that it might be doing X and you can't disprove them, how can you defend against it in a protest?
Corey
| trojan9x | 03-17-2004 09:19 AM |
back from the dead. anyone using this in ST classes and not having any problems?
| Rebellion | 03-17-2004 10:15 AM |
i'll probably be adding a TCII here shortly.
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