| mrtrex | 11-09-2005 11:17 AM |
Is a VF-34 to Big For Autocross
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I run SM already. Is this turbo going to have to much lag pulling out of the bends? Should I just stick with the stock td04 and get it ported and polished instead? My mods are the following:
Vishnu Reflashed ECU
Turboback Exhaust
Up-Pipe
Bigger Intercooler
Vishnu Reflashed ECU
Turboback Exhaust
Up-Pipe
Bigger Intercooler
| Car vs. Driver | 11-09-2005 11:40 AM |
I'm not 100% about this turbo ... but I can offer some general advice ...
For autocross you want more "useable" power, broader torque curve, etc rather than high peak HP/TQ numbers. So, if that's something you can get from this, then go for it.
Figure it this way, the average autocross is 2nd gear, maybe 3rd at times. So you'll want to pick your turbo based on where you're going to be in RPM's and gears. This, of course, is provided that your ultimate goal is a solod autocross car, not a high HP monster.
For autocross you want more "useable" power, broader torque curve, etc rather than high peak HP/TQ numbers. So, if that's something you can get from this, then go for it.
Figure it this way, the average autocross is 2nd gear, maybe 3rd at times. So you'll want to pick your turbo based on where you're going to be in RPM's and gears. This, of course, is provided that your ultimate goal is a solod autocross car, not a high HP monster.
| fliz | 11-09-2005 11:44 AM |
I certainly hope not.
I'm installing one in my car to run locally next year. It won't compete with the 400+whp GC dwx is building, but I'm hoping it will hold it's own against the swapped Civics.
I'm installing one in my car to run locally next year. It won't compete with the 400+whp GC dwx is building, but I'm hoping it will hold it's own against the swapped Civics.
| crystalhelix | 11-09-2005 11:46 AM |
IMO the stock WRX turbo is laggy as is and the VF34 would only add to your top end, so maybe a port and polish would be good. Is there any data that shows a HP/TQ curve for a pnp TD04?
| mrtrex | 11-09-2005 01:02 PM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix]IMO the stock WRX turbo is laggy as is and the VF34 would only add to your top end, so maybe a port and polish would be good. Is there any data that shows a HP/TQ curve for a pnp TD04?[/QUOTE]
That is what I am thinking. The Monster Port and Polish from deadbolt looks good. I also can run that on my ecutek with out getting a retune. I just spoke to vishnu and they said that a retune would not be needed. It would shift my tq curve to the left a little and improve throttle responce.
That is what I am thinking. The Monster Port and Polish from deadbolt looks good. I also can run that on my ecutek with out getting a retune. I just spoke to vishnu and they said that a retune would not be needed. It would shift my tq curve to the left a little and improve throttle responce.
| fliz | 11-09-2005 04:25 PM |
[QUOTE=mrtrex]That is what I am thinking. The Monster Port and Polish from deadbolt looks good. I also can run that on my ecutek with out getting a retune. I just spoke to vishnu and they said that a retune would not be needed. It would shift my tq curve to the left a little and improve throttle responce.[/QUOTE]
Have you considered leaving the turbo alone and dropping down to ESP?
With the boost deregulation, the WRX is a better competitor in ESP than SM.
Have you considered leaving the turbo alone and dropping down to ESP?
With the boost deregulation, the WRX is a better competitor in ESP than SM.
| omahasubaru | 11-09-2005 04:40 PM |
Pick up a VF24/28 and have it ported/polished.
Or go with a TD05-16g with the same work. VF34 would be fine, if you had a 2.2 or 2.5, but with the 2.0, you would benifit more from a less larger turbo for autocross.
Just my $0.02
Or go with a TD05-16g with the same work. VF34 would be fine, if you had a 2.2 or 2.5, but with the 2.0, you would benifit more from a less larger turbo for autocross.
Just my $0.02
| psyber_0ptix | 11-09-2005 04:49 PM |
why not get a tune?
unabomber was cobb stage 2 (shelf map) and pulled 223whp/xxxtq
the same day that my cobb stage 2.5 pulled a mere 243whp/232tq
he had pnp stocker pulley and other small mods but is 1000 dollars the way to be spending to make your car gain 20 hp?
unabomber ahs since gone ecutek iirc and pulled #'s extremely close to mine, but with a sick quick spool.
i'd take that 1000 and invest in an autoX school for more seat time. and maybe get a tuned map.
unabomber was cobb stage 2 (shelf map) and pulled 223whp/xxxtq
the same day that my cobb stage 2.5 pulled a mere 243whp/232tq
he had pnp stocker pulley and other small mods but is 1000 dollars the way to be spending to make your car gain 20 hp?
unabomber ahs since gone ecutek iirc and pulled #'s extremely close to mine, but with a sick quick spool.
i'd take that 1000 and invest in an autoX school for more seat time. and maybe get a tuned map.
| crystalhelix | 11-09-2005 05:09 PM |
[QUOTE=fliz]Have you considered leaving the turbo alone and dropping down to ESP?
With the boost deregulation, the WRX is a better competitor in ESP than SM.[/QUOTE]
arg...smacks self in head
Forgot to tell you toms, 99% chance next year you can change boost in ESP for the WRX. A lot of SM people will be dropping into SP classes, that's also a good option. ESP is a pretty good class here too, it would be good competition. No worries about me, I will be in BSP.
J
PS - just PM me if you need any rules clarification.
With the boost deregulation, the WRX is a better competitor in ESP than SM.[/QUOTE]
arg...smacks self in head
Forgot to tell you toms, 99% chance next year you can change boost in ESP for the WRX. A lot of SM people will be dropping into SP classes, that's also a good option. ESP is a pretty good class here too, it would be good competition. No worries about me, I will be in BSP.
J
PS - just PM me if you need any rules clarification.
| psyber_0ptix | 11-09-2005 05:11 PM |
oh yea, i have a vf34 and autoX, it isnt that great if you let off the throttle.
just run some sticky tires and learn to keep your foot mashed and left foot brake, or never fully lift. and you'll be fine. it really helps on straits. but its hard to drive smoothly sometimes
just run some sticky tires and learn to keep your foot mashed and left foot brake, or never fully lift. and you'll be fine. it really helps on straits. but its hard to drive smoothly sometimes
| Samurai Jack | 11-09-2005 07:14 PM |
[QUOTE=omahasubaru]Or go with a TD05-16g with the same work. VF34 would be fine, if you had a 2.2 or 2.5, but with the 2.0, you would benifit more from a less larger turbo for autocross.
Just my $0.02[/QUOTE]
TD05-16G and VF34 are essentially the same but the VF34 is a roller bearing turbo where the16G is a thrust bearing turbo. So the VF34 will have ~200 - 300RPM quicker spool over the TD05-16G.
P&P the 16G, and you have balanced them out. P&P the VF34, and the VF34 gains again.
Just my $0.02[/QUOTE]
TD05-16G and VF34 are essentially the same but the VF34 is a roller bearing turbo where the16G is a thrust bearing turbo. So the VF34 will have ~200 - 300RPM quicker spool over the TD05-16G.
P&P the 16G, and you have balanced them out. P&P the VF34, and the VF34 gains again.
| vintagemilano | 11-09-2005 09:25 PM |
If I were building a dedicated turbo car for autocross, I would be putting a smaller turbo in. Something that spools lightning quick, then tune the final car by chosing a tire size to put the gearing in the right place.
| psyber_0ptix | 11-10-2005 01:28 AM |
16g
quick spool and top end (compared to vf34)
of course spool can be reduced by an aggresive TUNE
quick spool and top end (compared to vf34)
of course spool can be reduced by an aggresive TUNE
| Sideshowbob | 11-10-2005 10:11 AM |
[QUOTE=psyber_0ptix]16g
quick spool and top end (compared to vf34)
of course spool can be reduced by an aggresive TUNE[/QUOTE]
The regulsr (non Ti) 16G isn't really much better than the VF34 for spool.
I think a VF34 is FINE for AutoX
quick spool and top end (compared to vf34)
of course spool can be reduced by an aggresive TUNE[/QUOTE]
The regulsr (non Ti) 16G isn't really much better than the VF34 for spool.
I think a VF34 is FINE for AutoX
| psyber_0ptix | 11-10-2005 10:20 AM |
i STILL think a vf34 with a tune would be much better than any off shelf vf34 map.
but it doesnt seem people want to accept or consider it :lol:
but it doesnt seem people want to accept or consider it :lol:
| DOHCammin | 11-10-2005 10:40 AM |
[QUOTE=psyber_0ptix]i STILL think a vf34 with a tune would be much better than any off shelf vf34 map.
but it doesnt seem people want to accept or consider it :lol:[/QUOTE]
I think most people agree, off the shelf maps are good for a "quick fix" but not good for safety or longevity. you can always squeeze out more power with a custom tune because off the shelf maps are way conservative for safety reasons.
looks like I have to learn auto-x in ESP class, just got my VF34 yesturday :(
but it doesnt seem people want to accept or consider it :lol:[/QUOTE]
I think most people agree, off the shelf maps are good for a "quick fix" but not good for safety or longevity. you can always squeeze out more power with a custom tune because off the shelf maps are way conservative for safety reasons.
looks like I have to learn auto-x in ESP class, just got my VF34 yesturday :(
| subieworx | 11-10-2005 10:54 AM |
I wouldn't even bother. You would be better of spending the extra money on suspension bits and better yet driving schools than the turbo if autox is your ultimate goal. If not, then the turbo will work alright, but is not ideal. If anything a clipped stocker would work even better.
| MattNJ2.8 | 11-10-2005 12:01 PM |
I auto-x'd my VF34'd '04 WRX for a while.
Highly do NOT recommend this turbo for this application. Get a good tune, and spend that $$$ on suspension and R compounds. You will be WAY faster.
For suspension, get a big front bar, decent rear bar, and a set of decent (not TEIN) coilovers.
Highly do NOT recommend this turbo for this application. Get a good tune, and spend that $$$ on suspension and R compounds. You will be WAY faster.
For suspension, get a big front bar, decent rear bar, and a set of decent (not TEIN) coilovers.
| psyber_0ptix | 11-10-2005 12:13 PM |
i have a 'small' fsb upgrade and a larger
:huh:
seems to work well for me
21mm front 22 adjustable rear set to stiffest.
but want to drive fast? become a better driver.
fast cars dont make fast drivers
:huh:
seems to work well for me
21mm front 22 adjustable rear set to stiffest.
but want to drive fast? become a better driver.
fast cars dont make fast drivers
| mrtrex | 11-10-2005 01:24 PM |
I have all the supporting suspenion mods. I think I am going with the deadbolt monster td04 and a tune. I drive the car on the street as well it is not strictly an autocross car.
| terry61oz5 | 11-10-2005 02:51 PM |
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Stock TD04 unpolished with 19Lbs helper spring not quite fully preloaded. It makes 16psi of down low torque very early on a 2.5L. You'll have to concentrate on the frontwheel traction (w/4:44 r&p)especially in turns under a good load. ECU compensates easily with 93+ octane.
| abaxter34 | 11-10-2005 06:56 PM |
isnt anti-lag legal in sm. why not go with utec and run the anti-lag for the mere 60 seconds your run lasts.
| WJM | 11-10-2005 11:02 PM |
Just get on the gas earlier....unless the turbo is prepped properly for anti-lag...it will be destroyed in short order with the use of anti-lag.
| psyber_0ptix | 11-10-2005 11:59 PM |
[QUOTE=abaxter34]isnt anti-lag legal in sm. why not go with utec and run the anti-lag for the mere 60 seconds your run lasts.[/QUOTE]
utec doesnt support anti-lag, thats launch control
utec doesnt support anti-lag, thats launch control
| Duo | 11-11-2005 01:31 AM |
you guys should make a 100 heatsoak map. You would be amazed how much torque even with a cat you can get out of your td04. I run it for rallycross, sorta the same thing. With my map I have 250ft/lbs of torque with the tdo4 on 100 octane. Mods are tbe, up pipe, and intercooler hoses also i run the eq tuning solinoid. The solinoid just helops with spool. Just thought i might offer that.
| mrtrex | 11-11-2005 08:49 AM |
Can you explain more about the eq tuning solinoid??
| Duo | 11-11-2005 12:08 PM |
It about the same thing as the gm solinoid. It is a 3 port solinoid instead of the stock 2 one. It helps with spool up. The best way to describe how it feels is like having the instant boost of a boost controller but you have the control (partial throttle partial boost) of the stock solinoid. The only downside to this is you need to have a tune to control the solinoid it is not plug and play.
[url]www.eqtuning.com[/url] for more info
[url]www.eqtuning.com[/url] for more info
| mrtrex | 11-11-2005 01:57 PM |
Sounds like something to look into in the future.
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