| jcroy66 | 06-29-2005 11:02 AM |
Lost: 2 lugnuts at Oscoda Pro
�
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OK, imagine my shock when I went out to the car this morning to try to figure out if we had a bad wheel bearing, only to discover that 2 of the 5 lugnuts on our front passenger wheel were missing entirely!
I have no idea when this happened. Obviously sometime between Friday afternoon, when we switched to the Kumhos, and this morning.
So. If any of you happened to notice any lugnuts lying around the course or anything at Oscoda, could you let me know? I'd like to at least find out if it happened at Oscoda or on the road since then.
Oh, and we'll be heading to Sears tonight for a new torque wrench...
I have no idea when this happened. Obviously sometime between Friday afternoon, when we switched to the Kumhos, and this morning.
So. If any of you happened to notice any lugnuts lying around the course or anything at Oscoda, could you let me know? I'd like to at least find out if it happened at Oscoda or on the road since then.
Oh, and we'll be heading to Sears tonight for a new torque wrench...
| DrBiggly | 06-29-2005 11:07 AM |
Have you tested the torque wrench to be sure it's at fault? Typically torque wrenches exhibit some oddness that's obvious before just not working properly anymore.
At least 2 lugnuts are cheaper than wheel bearings. Ask me how I know! :)
-Biggly
At least 2 lugnuts are cheaper than wheel bearings. Ask me how I know! :)
-Biggly
| ChrisDP | 06-29-2005 11:10 AM |
Might want to keep a few extra wheel studs on hand... wobbling wheels sometimes do funny things to the studs.
| jcroy66 | 06-29-2005 11:12 AM |
Well, when I put two replacement lug nuts on this morning, the torque wrench seemed kind of "gooey". And I remember Phil saying recently that it seemed to be leaking. So yeah, I'm thinking that a new torque wrench is definitely necessary. :)
And I'm HOPING that's the only culprit. I've been racking my brain, trying to think of any other possible culprits...
And I'm HOPING that's the only culprit. I've been racking my brain, trying to think of any other possible culprits...
| jcroy66 | 06-29-2005 11:13 AM |
Chris, yep, we already have 4 (or is it 5? I can't remember) spare wheel studs sitting in the toolbox. :)
| LyveWRX | 06-29-2005 01:10 PM |
Ive had troubles with loosening lugs for the last 3 years. I generally torque to 70ft-lbs, then they would loosen, so I would torque them back down, I had to repeat thsi process up to 4 times occasionally. (my torque wrench is in decent shape and comparative testing show that it is still accurate.) The studs are fine, At least the thread pitch is the same from tip to hubface so I dont think the studs streched. Ive noticed it several times after swapping tires/wheels for TSD rallys. I did notice that the thread of the studs had both white and red rust on them, I have since used Al based anti-sieze on them and that has helped significantly, although I only torque to 65ft-lbs now.
| XT6Wagon | 06-29-2005 02:10 PM |
Um, putting antiseise on the threads is a good way to get them to fall off.
try putting a little antisease on the seat where the lugnut hits the face of the rim, and a small dab of thread lock just inside the lugnut. don't go nuts on this...
try putting a little antisease on the seat where the lugnut hits the face of the rim, and a small dab of thread lock just inside the lugnut. don't go nuts on this...
| SloRice | 06-29-2005 02:43 PM |
I've been using Anti-Sieze on my studs for about a year now without any problems...makes life so much easier when you don't have to drive home from an auto-x with 3 street tires and a slick with 2 broken studs and a 3rd one on its way out...
| speedyHAM | 06-29-2005 02:57 PM |
If you use anti-seize on your studs make sure you are using a lower torque value as LyveWRX mentioned, the lubrication effect of the anti-seize will increase the tension placed on the stud by quite a bit.
Per the instructions we use where I work- click type torque wrenches must be stored at the minimum setting of the wrench, and should be "exercised" prior to applying the final torque. If you store a click type wrench at a higher setting the spring will creep over time and the calibration will slowly go off. We have had instances of these wrenched being off by more than 40% due to improper storage. Most click type wrenches are also self lubricating, so exercising it prior to use will make sure that the bearing faces are properly lubed and will get the wrench closer to the specified value. Hope this helps.
Per the instructions we use where I work- click type torque wrenches must be stored at the minimum setting of the wrench, and should be "exercised" prior to applying the final torque. If you store a click type wrench at a higher setting the spring will creep over time and the calibration will slowly go off. We have had instances of these wrenched being off by more than 40% due to improper storage. Most click type wrenches are also self lubricating, so exercising it prior to use will make sure that the bearing faces are properly lubed and will get the wrench closer to the specified value. Hope this helps.
| trhoppe | 06-29-2005 04:16 PM |
Just think of the benefits. You probably saved a few ounces during your runs!
-Tom
-Tom
| jcroy66 | 06-29-2005 05:21 PM |
Skipping McDonald's would have saved more. ;)
| adhowe70 | 06-29-2005 08:18 PM |
[QUOTE=XT6Wagon]Um, putting antiseise on the threads is a good way to get them to fall off.
try putting a little antisease on the seat where the lugnut hits the face of the rim, and a small dab of thread lock just inside the lugnut. don't go nuts on this...[/QUOTE]
This is horrible advice. Put a tiny dab of anti-seize on the threads and do absolutely nothing to the seat where the lug nut bears on the wheel. Torque the lug to minimum factory spec... 60 lb-ft. Check often.
Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever (you get the ideal) , ever put a lubricant on the bearing face of between the nut and the wheel. The whole purpose of anti-seize is to lubricate the threads so you can take the nut off without taking the threads with it. The friction holding the nut on is caused by the clamping force between the nut and the wheel. If you lubricate the seat, the friction holding the nut on is ONLY caused by thread on thread friction. This will INCREASE the likelihood of having a stud problem. Sure, the nut is on... permanently!
This is my professional advice (as used on my car since mid-2002) as a professional engineer.
Andy H.
try putting a little antisease on the seat where the lugnut hits the face of the rim, and a small dab of thread lock just inside the lugnut. don't go nuts on this...[/QUOTE]
This is horrible advice. Put a tiny dab of anti-seize on the threads and do absolutely nothing to the seat where the lug nut bears on the wheel. Torque the lug to minimum factory spec... 60 lb-ft. Check often.
Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever (you get the ideal) , ever put a lubricant on the bearing face of between the nut and the wheel. The whole purpose of anti-seize is to lubricate the threads so you can take the nut off without taking the threads with it. The friction holding the nut on is caused by the clamping force between the nut and the wheel. If you lubricate the seat, the friction holding the nut on is ONLY caused by thread on thread friction. This will INCREASE the likelihood of having a stud problem. Sure, the nut is on... permanently!
This is my professional advice (as used on my car since mid-2002) as a professional engineer.
Andy H.
| LyveWRX | 06-29-2005 08:21 PM |
[quote]"This is my professional advice (as used on my car since mid-2002) as a professional engineer"[/quote]
good advice.
(PE or just pe?) -- from one engineer to another.
good advice.
(PE or just pe?) -- from one engineer to another.
| eshaun | 06-30-2005 12:47 PM |
quick ref ? ...whats the factory torque spec for 04 sti lugs
| Patrick L | 06-30-2005 01:22 PM |
[QUOTE=eshaun]quick ref ? ...whats the factory torque spec for 04 sti lugs[/QUOTE]
72ft/lbs
You all need to remember not all wheels are the same. That torque is for alloy wheels with the steel inserts like the 04 STI and like my 16's on my 00 RS. Alloy wheels with no inserts should be torqued high at 85-90ft/lbs. I still think you should not change the torque setting with antiseize. If anything your getting proper torque. If you don't take off your wheels no and off on a regular basis like me then there is no need for it. As you take them on and off the stud and nut shed metal and that IMO will throw your torque settting off. I have worked with aircraft and cars for over 10 years and we use oil, grease or antiseize on various nuts to make sure we get proper torque as I have seen it many times where a stud or bolt sheds metal and scues the torque on the nut or bolt.
72ft/lbs
You all need to remember not all wheels are the same. That torque is for alloy wheels with the steel inserts like the 04 STI and like my 16's on my 00 RS. Alloy wheels with no inserts should be torqued high at 85-90ft/lbs. I still think you should not change the torque setting with antiseize. If anything your getting proper torque. If you don't take off your wheels no and off on a regular basis like me then there is no need for it. As you take them on and off the stud and nut shed metal and that IMO will throw your torque settting off. I have worked with aircraft and cars for over 10 years and we use oil, grease or antiseize on various nuts to make sure we get proper torque as I have seen it many times where a stud or bolt sheds metal and scues the torque on the nut or bolt.
| eshaun | 06-30-2005 02:43 PM |
thanks top dog
| LyveWRX | 06-30-2005 03:30 PM |
[quote]"Alloy wheels with no inserts should be torqued high at 85-90ft/lbs. I still think you should not change the torque setting with antiseize. If anything your getting proper torque."[/quote]
NO, you are wrong...
The WRX stock alloy wheel has no insert. It should be torqued to spec. 60-75ft-lbs.
The torque specs allways include the statement: "using a clean dry thread", anti-sieze affects the clampforce to torque relationship less than grease or oil, however it still increases the tensile load on the bolt for any given torque setting. You will however get a more consistant clampforce vs torque relation ship if the studs are anti-siezed. IE less variation in clampforce stud to stud. The Machinists Handbook recommends subtracting 33% of the max torque when using a lubricated thread. I decided that 8% would suit the stud just fine. You do however run the risk of stretching a stud out if you use anti-sieze and too high of a torque setting.
NO, you are wrong...
The WRX stock alloy wheel has no insert. It should be torqued to spec. 60-75ft-lbs.
The torque specs allways include the statement: "using a clean dry thread", anti-sieze affects the clampforce to torque relationship less than grease or oil, however it still increases the tensile load on the bolt for any given torque setting. You will however get a more consistant clampforce vs torque relation ship if the studs are anti-siezed. IE less variation in clampforce stud to stud. The Machinists Handbook recommends subtracting 33% of the max torque when using a lubricated thread. I decided that 8% would suit the stud just fine. You do however run the risk of stretching a stud out if you use anti-sieze and too high of a torque setting.
| adhowe70 | 06-30-2005 08:08 PM |
All serious discussion on the point is moot without knowing the design parameters that the Subaru engineers worked with.
Too high of a torque and you run the risk of stetching the bolt (leading to seized nuts)
Too low of a torque and you run the risk of fatiguing the bolt to failure (lateral load induced stress cycles caused by not enough preload on the bolt) or having the wheel fall off.
Facts:
a clean, dry thread is the specified method of tightening Subie lug nuts.
any lubricant on the threads will increase the clamping force at a given torque spec
any dirt or debris on the threads will decrease the clamping force at a given torque spec
the most consistent clamping force will be achieved by using clean, lubricated threads
less than 60 lb-ft of torque will risk having the nut fall off (hence my lower bound of 60!)
half a turn too much will fail the stud!
Unknowns:
did the engineer design for a clamping force or just to keep the wheel from falling off?
will 75 lb-ft or more cause a problem with the stud?
what is the quality of the stud? (affecting fatigue life, etc.)
was the clamping force set by the wheel design at the hub? (steel vs. all alloy)
I clean the studs at every change and torque to 60 lb-ft. All I can do is be consistent and try to compensate for my changes to the engineer's design parameters. Hence, clean, lubricated with a lower spec. I would advise against higher torque specs than the factory specified number, especially if you're using a lubricant on the treads.
Andy H. (actually a genuine PE currently designing twin 220ft long steel plate girder bridges)
Too high of a torque and you run the risk of stetching the bolt (leading to seized nuts)
Too low of a torque and you run the risk of fatiguing the bolt to failure (lateral load induced stress cycles caused by not enough preload on the bolt) or having the wheel fall off.
Facts:
a clean, dry thread is the specified method of tightening Subie lug nuts.
any lubricant on the threads will increase the clamping force at a given torque spec
any dirt or debris on the threads will decrease the clamping force at a given torque spec
the most consistent clamping force will be achieved by using clean, lubricated threads
less than 60 lb-ft of torque will risk having the nut fall off (hence my lower bound of 60!)
half a turn too much will fail the stud!
Unknowns:
did the engineer design for a clamping force or just to keep the wheel from falling off?
will 75 lb-ft or more cause a problem with the stud?
what is the quality of the stud? (affecting fatigue life, etc.)
was the clamping force set by the wheel design at the hub? (steel vs. all alloy)
I clean the studs at every change and torque to 60 lb-ft. All I can do is be consistent and try to compensate for my changes to the engineer's design parameters. Hence, clean, lubricated with a lower spec. I would advise against higher torque specs than the factory specified number, especially if you're using a lubricant on the treads.
Andy H. (actually a genuine PE currently designing twin 220ft long steel plate girder bridges)
| LyveWRX | 07-01-2005 08:57 AM |
[quote]"actually a genuine PE currently designing twin 220ft long steel plate girder bridges"[/quote]
Awesome, just wondering, there arnt very many PE's in my field. (Metallurgy)
Awesome, just wondering, there arnt very many PE's in my field. (Metallurgy)
| DetroitWRX | 07-01-2005 12:14 PM |
[QUOTE=LyveWRX]Andy H. (actually a genuine PE currently designing twin 220ft long steel plate girder bridges). Awesome, just wondering, there arnt very many PE's in my field. (Metallurgy)[/QUOTE]
Oooooo a PE do you have your urber geek calculations to back up your findings to the review board on the lugnut, stud, wheel interface? Of course you do you�re a structures nerd. You don�t have to bust out a thesis every time someone asks a question to showoff how big of a geek you are.
Rob A. (actually a genuine PE currently designing trailer parks for your mom to live in).
Oooooo a PE do you have your urber geek calculations to back up your findings to the review board on the lugnut, stud, wheel interface? Of course you do you�re a structures nerd. You don�t have to bust out a thesis every time someone asks a question to showoff how big of a geek you are.
Rob A. (actually a genuine PE currently designing trailer parks for your mom to live in).
| DetroitWRX | 07-01-2005 12:25 PM |
I'm just bustin nutz for tossing your PE around.
Yes I have a PE also and do land development, including trailer parks. I have it in two states MI, OH do you? hu, hu! That's what I thought! Go back to your corner of the office and do some math no one else wants to do. :devil: :devil: :devil: :disco: :devil:
Yes I have a PE also and do land development, including trailer parks. I have it in two states MI, OH do you? hu, hu! That's what I thought! Go back to your corner of the office and do some math no one else wants to do. :devil: :devil: :devil: :disco: :devil:
| LyveWRX | 07-01-2005 12:34 PM |
The abouve is one reason I am NOT a PE!
(Although I still get to do the maths that no one else wants to do......)
(Although I still get to do the maths that no one else wants to do......)
| adhowe70 | 07-04-2005 07:59 PM |
:) One state only... Oregon. I haven't needed more and maintaining several licenses is expensive.
You haven't lived as a PE until you've bound a 3000+ page calculation book stating that a bridge won't fall down under traffic. That's why us structures geeks get paid the big bucks. :rolleyes:
Land development? Do you have lots of calculations proving that the water is going to flow downhill? :D At least we can both agree on this... What's up with architects?!?
You haven't lived as a PE until you've bound a 3000+ page calculation book stating that a bridge won't fall down under traffic. That's why us structures geeks get paid the big bucks. :rolleyes:
Land development? Do you have lots of calculations proving that the water is going to flow downhill? :D At least we can both agree on this... What's up with architects?!?
| Portly | 07-04-2005 08:48 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70]What's up with architects?!?[/QUOTE]
HEY! I resemble, er, resent that remark!
_Jeff (Not actually NCARB registered, but working on it. And what does this have to do with thread torque? Absolutely nothing.)
HEY! I resemble, er, resent that remark!
_Jeff (Not actually NCARB registered, but working on it. And what does this have to do with thread torque? Absolutely nothing.)
| adhowe70 | 07-04-2005 09:56 PM |
[QUOTE=Portly]And what does this have to do with thread torque? Absolutely nothing.[/QUOTE]
Leave it to the architect to point out what engineer's already know. It happens every time they don't have any constructive input. :lol: :p ;)
Leave it to the architect to point out what engineer's already know. It happens every time they don't have any constructive input. :lol: :p ;)
| DetroitWRX | 07-05-2005 09:52 AM |
[QUOTE]And what does this have to do with thread torque? Absolutely nothing.[/QUOTE]
It is obvious what the point is. We know more about this than everyone else about lug nut torque cuz we are a Professional Engineer!! :D
Back to the point now.
Last year when I was at Oscoda I broke a stud and lost a lug on a different stud. I now torque them to 90lbs on stock and after market wheels. I replace studs as they break with longer ones I found at Murray�s. On a slow day I asked to see the studs they had and took my digital calipers to find ones that are the same but longer by 2-3 treads. I also do not use stock lug nuts I use Kryo, or McGard nutz. I no longer have loose lug nut problems now.
It is obvious what the point is. We know more about this than everyone else about lug nut torque cuz we are a Professional Engineer!! :D
Back to the point now.
Last year when I was at Oscoda I broke a stud and lost a lug on a different stud. I now torque them to 90lbs on stock and after market wheels. I replace studs as they break with longer ones I found at Murray�s. On a slow day I asked to see the studs they had and took my digital calipers to find ones that are the same but longer by 2-3 treads. I also do not use stock lug nuts I use Kryo, or McGard nutz. I no longer have loose lug nut problems now.
| SVC | 07-05-2005 12:22 PM |
[color=DarkOrange]351-17
[color=Black]And the archetypes win![/color]
[/color]
[color=Black]And the archetypes win![/color]
[/color]
| crystalhelix | 07-05-2005 12:39 PM |
I used a dab of antiseize w/65 ft-lb. Never had problems. But I did have problems before anti-seize.
Justin - BSME
Justin - BSME
| Pakin | 07-05-2005 08:33 PM |
Torque Sticks!!11
:D
-paK +75
:D
-paK +75
| GravelRash | 07-05-2005 09:11 PM |
The first time I encountered torque stix at a tire shop I thought "Cool! Now they finally can't screw up when they put my wheels back on the car!".
[I]Wrongggggggg![/I] I watched while the guy asked his foreman if/where to find a 65ftlb stick, since he'd never used one that low before. But they did have it, he used it...but apparently managed to overuse it. I checked as soon as I got home: iirc they were at varying torques, but all in the 80ftlb zone.
I've also watched guys put my wheels on with a click type wrench...and still way overtorque them. They pull hard and fast on the wrench - in a hurry - it clicks, and by the time they stop pulling they've added another 10-20 ftlbs :rolleyes:
I've used antiseize on my wheel studs on 8 cars now, over many years; no loose nuts, no problems - and I do use the low end of the range for the particular car to compensate for the lubed threads.
I started doing this for a specific reason: after the first few wheel changes, and/or seasons on the car, the threads will [B]never again[/B] be even close to the original condition and consistency across all the studs/nuts. I.e., you can maybe get them dry, but you'll never get then to the original "clean" condition, [I]especially[/I] the original surface finish and plating/coating condition. You can't get there from here... ;)
So I agree entirely with the antisieze school: you can't go back to new (unless you want to replace wheel studs and lug nuts way more often than I'm willing to!), but you can achieve some level of consistency and predictability using antisieze.
One other note: I believe the Machinist's Handbook 33% reduction assumes no appreciable friction loading at other surfaces, e.g., minimal friction on the axial load surface for the "nut" used in the test environment. But we'll never have that condition when mounting a wheel - unless the nut/wheel surface is also lubed, as covered above - and noted as [I]not[/I] a good idea.
For steel, usually chromed, nuts used on Al wheels, the friction at this interface should remain fairly uniform - as long as the surfaces are clean, especially the steel nut. (A flaking, rusty, dinged, etc. nut throws everything out the window, and will damage the wheel surface.) And, also as noted above, it's ultimately the friction at that interface, with proper bolt tension - supplied by appropriate torque on the nut - that will keep the lug nuts from loosening over time and use.
If the Al wheel has a steel insert, or the wheel is steel, then careful attention should be paid the the nut/wheel interface. I've seen some badly galled wheels, and damaged nuts, and there's no way you'll ever achieve a predictable, let alone consistent, bolt tension by relying on a torque reading under those conditions. Even lube won't solve the problem at that point, though it would probably be better than nothing until the problem could be fixed.
[I]Wrongggggggg![/I] I watched while the guy asked his foreman if/where to find a 65ftlb stick, since he'd never used one that low before. But they did have it, he used it...but apparently managed to overuse it. I checked as soon as I got home: iirc they were at varying torques, but all in the 80ftlb zone.
I've also watched guys put my wheels on with a click type wrench...and still way overtorque them. They pull hard and fast on the wrench - in a hurry - it clicks, and by the time they stop pulling they've added another 10-20 ftlbs :rolleyes:
I've used antiseize on my wheel studs on 8 cars now, over many years; no loose nuts, no problems - and I do use the low end of the range for the particular car to compensate for the lubed threads.
I started doing this for a specific reason: after the first few wheel changes, and/or seasons on the car, the threads will [B]never again[/B] be even close to the original condition and consistency across all the studs/nuts. I.e., you can maybe get them dry, but you'll never get then to the original "clean" condition, [I]especially[/I] the original surface finish and plating/coating condition. You can't get there from here... ;)
So I agree entirely with the antisieze school: you can't go back to new (unless you want to replace wheel studs and lug nuts way more often than I'm willing to!), but you can achieve some level of consistency and predictability using antisieze.
One other note: I believe the Machinist's Handbook 33% reduction assumes no appreciable friction loading at other surfaces, e.g., minimal friction on the axial load surface for the "nut" used in the test environment. But we'll never have that condition when mounting a wheel - unless the nut/wheel surface is also lubed, as covered above - and noted as [I]not[/I] a good idea.
For steel, usually chromed, nuts used on Al wheels, the friction at this interface should remain fairly uniform - as long as the surfaces are clean, especially the steel nut. (A flaking, rusty, dinged, etc. nut throws everything out the window, and will damage the wheel surface.) And, also as noted above, it's ultimately the friction at that interface, with proper bolt tension - supplied by appropriate torque on the nut - that will keep the lug nuts from loosening over time and use.
If the Al wheel has a steel insert, or the wheel is steel, then careful attention should be paid the the nut/wheel interface. I've seen some badly galled wheels, and damaged nuts, and there's no way you'll ever achieve a predictable, let alone consistent, bolt tension by relying on a torque reading under those conditions. Even lube won't solve the problem at that point, though it would probably be better than nothing until the problem could be fixed.
| Pakin | 07-06-2005 12:21 AM |
[QUOTE=GravelRash]The first time I encountered torque stix at a tire shop I thought "Cool! Now they finally can't screw up when they put my wheels back on the car!".
[I]Wrongggggggg![/I] I watched while the guy asked his foreman if/where to find a 65ftlb stick, since he'd never used one that low before. But they did have it, he used it...but apparently managed to overuse it. I checked as soon as I got home: iirc they were at varying torques, but all in the 80ftlb zone.
[/QUOTE]
There are quite a few people at different shops (usually the indies) that I've visited use the blue stick which is 80 ft/lbs. I even used it on my own Subaru at home, where my yellow 65 wasn't with me, many times. I have never had warped rotors or blown wheel bearings in the lifetime of the vehicle.
I really don't understand what you mean by overusing a torque stick.
Lugs from the factory are tightened more than 80 ft pounds the last I checked.
I believe as long as everything torque down consistantly and evenly, it should be fine. You not gonna get exactly 65 ft/lbs on every lug, unless you have the most accurate torque wrench in world and you go up is value sequences.
-paK +0
[I]Wrongggggggg![/I] I watched while the guy asked his foreman if/where to find a 65ftlb stick, since he'd never used one that low before. But they did have it, he used it...but apparently managed to overuse it. I checked as soon as I got home: iirc they were at varying torques, but all in the 80ftlb zone.
[/QUOTE]
There are quite a few people at different shops (usually the indies) that I've visited use the blue stick which is 80 ft/lbs. I even used it on my own Subaru at home, where my yellow 65 wasn't with me, many times. I have never had warped rotors or blown wheel bearings in the lifetime of the vehicle.
I really don't understand what you mean by overusing a torque stick.
Lugs from the factory are tightened more than 80 ft pounds the last I checked.
I believe as long as everything torque down consistantly and evenly, it should be fine. You not gonna get exactly 65 ft/lbs on every lug, unless you have the most accurate torque wrench in world and you go up is value sequences.
-paK +0
| GravelRash | 07-06-2005 02:42 AM |
Well, I'm not sure either, but he did use the yellow stick, and the resulting torque, when checked at home was way above 65ftlbs.
I don't know exactly how a torque stick is supposed to be used (I assume its flexibility either interrupts the action of the air wrench, or allows the operator to feel when the designed limit is reached), but this operator really laid on the trigger after the lug had seated, iirc also hitting it again 1-2 times after releasing the first round.
Agreed that you won't get exactly the desired torque - or more accurately, the desired bolt tension - on each stud. But whatever you can do to both come close to the desired spec and to produce consistent results across all the studs is all to the good.
I run the nuts down lightly with the air wrench, on a setting that results in ~35-45ftlbs to get the wheel seated. Then I run a first pattern by hand, evening them out more to ~45-50; then the spec pattern to the click setting. And one final click round just to be sure there are no anomalies. Works for me...
I don't know exactly how a torque stick is supposed to be used (I assume its flexibility either interrupts the action of the air wrench, or allows the operator to feel when the designed limit is reached), but this operator really laid on the trigger after the lug had seated, iirc also hitting it again 1-2 times after releasing the first round.
Agreed that you won't get exactly the desired torque - or more accurately, the desired bolt tension - on each stud. But whatever you can do to both come close to the desired spec and to produce consistent results across all the studs is all to the good.
I run the nuts down lightly with the air wrench, on a setting that results in ~35-45ftlbs to get the wheel seated. Then I run a first pattern by hand, evening them out more to ~45-50; then the spec pattern to the click setting. And one final click round just to be sure there are no anomalies. Works for me...
| Pakin | 07-06-2005 11:21 PM |
Ah I see.
The correct way to use a torque stick is to seat the lugs entirely flush from wheel to hub, and then rattle them down. No matter how long you lay the impact on it, the torque value won't go up or down. You should be hitting the lugs at least 10 times (5 lug pattern), 5 times seating it down flush and a tad snug, 5 more time rattle it down.
However, this all changes with one common misunderstood procedure. Some operators do not seat them, but run the first lug from the end of the stud to the wheel immediately. The ongoing momentum/velocity of the lug now will created a seperate torque value of itself in addition to what it was limited from the stick upon impact. As a result, you have a higher torque range. In this case, the lugs are hit just 5 times.
-paK +1
The correct way to use a torque stick is to seat the lugs entirely flush from wheel to hub, and then rattle them down. No matter how long you lay the impact on it, the torque value won't go up or down. You should be hitting the lugs at least 10 times (5 lug pattern), 5 times seating it down flush and a tad snug, 5 more time rattle it down.
However, this all changes with one common misunderstood procedure. Some operators do not seat them, but run the first lug from the end of the stud to the wheel immediately. The ongoing momentum/velocity of the lug now will created a seperate torque value of itself in addition to what it was limited from the stick upon impact. As a result, you have a higher torque range. In this case, the lugs are hit just 5 times.
-paK +1
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