| PKer | 10-26-2004 06:02 PM |
Would you freak if someone rode a skateboard during course walk?
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Title says it all, my bike won't fit.
| N'CTRL | 10-26-2004 06:04 PM |
No. [color=DDDDD].[/color]
| dwx | 10-26-2004 06:14 PM |
At an autocross? It's illegal to use anything but your feet. Unless you are handicapped, and I doubt that's the case if you are riding a skateboard.
| neuspeed | 10-26-2004 06:26 PM |
Could I take my RC on it? Just for fun? --Question asking the AutoX pros?
| 8Complex | 10-26-2004 06:26 PM |
I've carried my scooter before. Seems silly to me as I'd usually be doing, oh, 5-20 times faster in a vehicle that was a good 5 feet wider when I was running. But oh well, I'm not THAT lazy.
| PKer | 10-26-2004 06:28 PM |
Yeah autocross (oops should have mentioned that). I've seen people riding bikes before they were def. not handicapped.
I just want to get more walks in a shorter period, I don't want to run.
I just want to get more walks in a shorter period, I don't want to run.
| RoninSTI | 10-26-2004 07:41 PM |
we had this exact same discussion at our previous local event, I'm not sure on scca rulings, but i would def like to see the course at a quicker pace than my feet. I do however like to stand around and try to get a good view of the lines through all of the corners. I would ask the people who run your local event and see what they have to say.
| makofoto | 10-26-2004 07:49 PM |
It would seem not to be fair for you to get more "walks" in ... ? Although at our local level wouldn't seem to be a big deal ... but YOU know some of our members ... and I don't like getting yelled at in public! ;) On the other hand I'm pretty sure I've seen various "elite" drivers on bikes saving some time ... but maybe I've only seen them try it once .... :lol:
| PKer | 10-26-2004 08:18 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]It would seem not to be fair for you to get more "walks" in ... ? [/QUOTE]
Easy for you to say since you designed the last few. :lol:
I've seen one of the Berry girls riding a bike, I think it used to be more prevelant. Well I guess there's one way to find out and if I incur the wrath of Renee so be it. :devil: (of course I talk big on teh intardweb) we'll see in real life. :o
Easy for you to say since you designed the last few. :lol:
I've seen one of the Berry girls riding a bike, I think it used to be more prevelant. Well I guess there's one way to find out and if I incur the wrath of Renee so be it. :devil: (of course I talk big on teh intardweb) we'll see in real life. :o
| hyp36rmax | 10-26-2004 11:18 PM |
bah! ill bring my scooter at the next event that i attend, everyone seems so friendly i dont see why not its not like i'll be beating anyones time anytime soon =-)
| dwx | 10-26-2004 11:29 PM |
There is a specific rule in the SCCA rulebook prohibiting it. Specifically if someone uses something other than their feet, they are dsq'd.
| AlpineFD | 10-27-2004 12:00 AM |
it's probably ok for our regional event :lol:
| afpdl | 10-27-2004 12:26 AM |
As long as your not running for season points at a regional event you can probably get away with it unless everyone starts doing it. Just dont go trying it at a national tour.
| nate49509 | 10-27-2004 02:16 AM |
Do you know what a mess it would be if eveyone is out there on bikes, scooters, skateboards, rollerblades, RC cars, etc. :lol: :lol:
| Porter | 10-27-2004 03:12 AM |
I want to see someone do it on a Segway. :D
| KC | 10-27-2004 07:42 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]There is a specific rule in the SCCA rulebook prohibiting it. Specifically if someone uses something other than their feet, they are dsq'd.[/QUOTE]
Yep. In SCCA rules... you're supposed to be on your feet. However, some SCCA regions don't care. Some non-scca clubs don't care. The local BMW club doesn't care, I ride my bike.
Ask the event chair if it's OK before you actually go out and do it.
Yep. In SCCA rules... you're supposed to be on your feet. However, some SCCA regions don't care. Some non-scca clubs don't care. The local BMW club doesn't care, I ride my bike.
Ask the event chair if it's OK before you actually go out and do it.
| paultg | 10-27-2004 07:42 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]There is a specific rule in the SCCA rulebook prohibiting it. Specifically if someone uses something other than their feet, they are dsq'd.[/QUOTE]
This cracks me up. And you wonder why the SCCA events in my area suck and you only get three runs for the day.
The club I run with prefers it. The course layout is typicall ~ 1 mile long, and the course times can vary from 1:30 to 2:30 depending on the design.
Trying to get everyone to walk it delays things too long. We typically have 8 runs per event.
Paul G.
This cracks me up. And you wonder why the SCCA events in my area suck and you only get three runs for the day.
The club I run with prefers it. The course layout is typicall ~ 1 mile long, and the course times can vary from 1:30 to 2:30 depending on the design.
Trying to get everyone to walk it delays things too long. We typically have 8 runs per event.
Paul G.
| dwx | 10-27-2004 09:12 AM |
I don't wonder why you get only 3 runs...probably due to poor organization.
Doesn't mean you have to follow the rule. Here it's more of a safety concern than anything else. Most of our events have between 170-200 people. There are a ton of people walking the course at any one time. Still do six runs. Most of our courses are >1 minute long as well, you just have to get there early to walk it or you are SOL.
Doesn't mean you have to follow the rule. Here it's more of a safety concern than anything else. Most of our events have between 170-200 people. There are a ton of people walking the course at any one time. Still do six runs. Most of our courses are >1 minute long as well, you just have to get there early to walk it or you are SOL.
| jcroy66 | 10-27-2004 09:35 AM |
Even if your event chief allows it, the safety stewards likely will not. Generally, no skateboards, scooters, skates, or any other wheeled devices that you do not "sit on" are permitted at an SCCA-sanctioned event (anywhere on site).
| kfoote | 10-27-2004 09:36 AM |
I have been "spoken to" about skateboarding the course at an SCCA auto-X. I made it about 3 gates before someone mentioned it to me.
I actually prefer skateboarding to bicycle for track walking (road course). I find that I pick up a lot more details of the road on skateboard than bicycle....things like it's a lot steeper downhill from turns 1 to 2 at Watkins Glen than it appears, and you can get going REALLY fast before having to bail on the outside of the track so you don't hit the guard rail going straight off at 2.
I actually prefer skateboarding to bicycle for track walking (road course). I find that I pick up a lot more details of the road on skateboard than bicycle....things like it's a lot steeper downhill from turns 1 to 2 at Watkins Glen than it appears, and you can get going REALLY fast before having to bail on the outside of the track so you don't hit the guard rail going straight off at 2.
| KC | 10-27-2004 09:49 AM |
[QUOTE=paultg]This cracks me up. And you wonder why the SCCA events in my area suck and you only get three runs for the day.[/QUOTE]
Paul... you know what cracks me up? When people say things like fact when they haven't even been because they base what they do in life on other people heresay.
When was the last time you even ATTENDED a local SCCA event? Oh.. that's right... at LEAST three years ago (Yes, I went back to 2002.. and.. no results for you).
Of our 8 events last year. 2 of them had 3 runs. 3 of them 6, and 3 of them had 4. We have about 170-200 per event, which is the most for any club that runs at this location. The course layout we can use is not condusive to having more than 3 cars on at a time on the mile long course.
Some clubs that run at the same location have much less of a turn out, or aren't as safety conscious as the local SCCA region. So it's more of a safety issue than a 'they suck' issue. When less people turn out, we can have more runs.
So, some people would rather just say 'they suck' when they don't understand what the club has to work with.
Also, the agreement that all clubs have with the proprty owners (it's in the contract) is that street cars shouldn't be breaking 60-65 mph. Yet.. in there are clubs there that are running at much higher speeds in their 'street cars'. It's only a matter of time before these clubs ruin it for everyone that uses the site.. which is basically the ONLY site in New England that isn't a little postage stamp of a lot. And there's going to be a lot of pissed off people at that club if they do ruin it for everyone involved.
So, it's not a matter of organization, it's not a matter of sucking, it's doing what we can with the amount of entries we get in a given day.
[QUOTE]I don't wonder why you get only 3 runs...probably due to poor organization.
Doesn't mean you have to follow the rule. Here it's more of a safety concern than anything else. Most of our events have between 170-200 people. There are a ton of people walking the course at any one time. Still do six runs. Most of our courses are >1 minute long as well, you just have to get there early to walk it or you are SOL.[/QUOTE]
Our courses are greater than 1 minute also but the layout of Devens is not ideal. It's 4 runways layed out as a a square with the farthest point being a half mile away. In the middle of this square is all grass. So, it takes too much time for worker changeover to get 6 runs in, in a 3 and 3 format. Most regions run in huge square open lots ... I wish there was some place in New England that big that could host an event. But we can only do with what we got.
Paul... you know what cracks me up? When people say things like fact when they haven't even been because they base what they do in life on other people heresay.
When was the last time you even ATTENDED a local SCCA event? Oh.. that's right... at LEAST three years ago (Yes, I went back to 2002.. and.. no results for you).
Of our 8 events last year. 2 of them had 3 runs. 3 of them 6, and 3 of them had 4. We have about 170-200 per event, which is the most for any club that runs at this location. The course layout we can use is not condusive to having more than 3 cars on at a time on the mile long course.
Some clubs that run at the same location have much less of a turn out, or aren't as safety conscious as the local SCCA region. So it's more of a safety issue than a 'they suck' issue. When less people turn out, we can have more runs.
So, some people would rather just say 'they suck' when they don't understand what the club has to work with.
Also, the agreement that all clubs have with the proprty owners (it's in the contract) is that street cars shouldn't be breaking 60-65 mph. Yet.. in there are clubs there that are running at much higher speeds in their 'street cars'. It's only a matter of time before these clubs ruin it for everyone that uses the site.. which is basically the ONLY site in New England that isn't a little postage stamp of a lot. And there's going to be a lot of pissed off people at that club if they do ruin it for everyone involved.
So, it's not a matter of organization, it's not a matter of sucking, it's doing what we can with the amount of entries we get in a given day.
[QUOTE]I don't wonder why you get only 3 runs...probably due to poor organization.
Doesn't mean you have to follow the rule. Here it's more of a safety concern than anything else. Most of our events have between 170-200 people. There are a ton of people walking the course at any one time. Still do six runs. Most of our courses are >1 minute long as well, you just have to get there early to walk it or you are SOL.[/QUOTE]
Our courses are greater than 1 minute also but the layout of Devens is not ideal. It's 4 runways layed out as a a square with the farthest point being a half mile away. In the middle of this square is all grass. So, it takes too much time for worker changeover to get 6 runs in, in a 3 and 3 format. Most regions run in huge square open lots ... I wish there was some place in New England that big that could host an event. But we can only do with what we got.
| Jack | 10-27-2004 10:03 AM |
For open track events.....well, with COM in New England, the open wheels would put your into an FP class. You'll need a full fire suit, gloves, shoes, balacava and face shield to ride your skateboard. Otherwise, I see no problem. If you do a full lap at LRP with COM in november fully legal like that, lunch is on me!
:D
jack
:D
jack
| paultg | 10-27-2004 10:04 AM |
Whatever KC. There you go again reading into what I said and spewing your opinion all over the place trying to make me look like a moron.
1. I still think the SCCA events locally suck. Why you ask:
a. People like you there
b. the stupid rules like the one this topic is discussing
You sign a waiver at the event, so what are they so "worried about" if your on a skateboard or bike, or walking? Forget I asked that, because I have no intention of reading your silly 3 page expanation as to why.
I don't know why you are bringing up the speed issues at Devens. It has nothing to do with me or the club I run with as far as I know. I certainly don't break the speed requirments, and I know the organizers are doing their best to design safe courses that meet the regulations.
Paul G.
1. I still think the SCCA events locally suck. Why you ask:
a. People like you there
b. the stupid rules like the one this topic is discussing
You sign a waiver at the event, so what are they so "worried about" if your on a skateboard or bike, or walking? Forget I asked that, because I have no intention of reading your silly 3 page expanation as to why.
I don't know why you are bringing up the speed issues at Devens. It has nothing to do with me or the club I run with as far as I know. I certainly don't break the speed requirments, and I know the organizers are doing their best to design safe courses that meet the regulations.
Paul G.
| Achilles38WRX | 10-27-2004 10:13 AM |
i thought it was more of a courtesy thing to your fellow racers to walk, so your not running into people going quicker than them on your wheeled device.
| KC | 10-27-2004 10:15 AM |
Paul, I hear it time and time again "SCCA in New England Sucks" You're just the person that's causing me to finally say something about it. (You think i"m implying you're a moron? Huh? :lol: No.. just rebutting and explaining.. you're the one that started the mud sligning saying that the local region sucks becuase they only get three runs.. you're entitled to that opinion.. but you need to allow for a rebuttal to your 'fact'.)
"People like me being there" what does that mean? A person that voluenteers to instruct? A person that can fill almost any postion to keep the event running, and is where he needs to be? A person that helps the club run, instead of someone that just shows up and complains with things don't go as expected? I don't get what you're implying.
[QUOTE]The waiver you sign does not mean you sign away all your rights but it does say you are aware of what is going on. Primarily it kicks in the insurance coverage. If you are injured, you are covered - it is secondary to your own health/accident policy, but has a multi-million dollar upper limit. If you hurt your car the event insurance does not cover that, but does cover SCCA's liability for any damage.[/QUOTE]
By limiting the clubs exposure or risk if someone should hurt themselves is ultimately why there's that rule. The SCCA is a big organization. Someone like you, if you hurt yourself, can surely turn around and collect insurance money if you hurt yourself.
The "no bikes/skateboards, whatever" is limiting the exposure to a claim being levied against the club.
--kC
"People like me being there" what does that mean? A person that voluenteers to instruct? A person that can fill almost any postion to keep the event running, and is where he needs to be? A person that helps the club run, instead of someone that just shows up and complains with things don't go as expected? I don't get what you're implying.
[QUOTE]The waiver you sign does not mean you sign away all your rights but it does say you are aware of what is going on. Primarily it kicks in the insurance coverage. If you are injured, you are covered - it is secondary to your own health/accident policy, but has a multi-million dollar upper limit. If you hurt your car the event insurance does not cover that, but does cover SCCA's liability for any damage.[/QUOTE]
By limiting the clubs exposure or risk if someone should hurt themselves is ultimately why there's that rule. The SCCA is a big organization. Someone like you, if you hurt yourself, can surely turn around and collect insurance money if you hurt yourself.
The "no bikes/skateboards, whatever" is limiting the exposure to a claim being levied against the club.
--kC
| Rich10 | 10-27-2004 10:15 AM |
I would file an immediate protest and demand that his car be inspected for rules violations. :furious: :mad: ;) :lol:
Actually, I would think that it was pretty funny. So long as the person is being safe, it wouldn't bother me.
Actually, I would think that it was pretty funny. So long as the person is being safe, it wouldn't bother me.
| jcroy66 | 10-27-2004 10:21 AM |
[QUOTE=kfoote]...you can get going REALLY fast before having to bail on the outside of the track so you don't hit the guard rail going straight off at 2.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: Thank you for illustrating my previous point much better than I ever could have.
[QUOTE=paultg]You sign a waiver at the event, so what are they so "worried about" if your on a skateboard or bike, or walking?[/QUOTE]
I hope that was merely a facetious remark.
If, however, you were serious, then here is my 3-page answer. :p In many ways, it doesn't matter if Person X signed a waiver at an event if Person X gets hurt and decides to sue (or in the case of a minor, if their parent(s) decide to sue). Hopefully, the waiver will sway the court to find in favor of the club, the club's officers, and the pavement owners. But even if the case is immediately thrown out of court, the major damage is already done. Consider this: pavement is extremely hard to come by in many areas. I highly doubt that if a pavement owner is sued that they will still permit autocrossing at that site.
Thus, the club is "worried about" making sure they can continue to autocross. And making sure that [B]you[/B] can continue to autocross too. Next time, consider thanking them for it. :huh:
:rolleyes: Thank you for illustrating my previous point much better than I ever could have.
[QUOTE=paultg]You sign a waiver at the event, so what are they so "worried about" if your on a skateboard or bike, or walking?[/QUOTE]
I hope that was merely a facetious remark.
If, however, you were serious, then here is my 3-page answer. :p In many ways, it doesn't matter if Person X signed a waiver at an event if Person X gets hurt and decides to sue (or in the case of a minor, if their parent(s) decide to sue). Hopefully, the waiver will sway the court to find in favor of the club, the club's officers, and the pavement owners. But even if the case is immediately thrown out of court, the major damage is already done. Consider this: pavement is extremely hard to come by in many areas. I highly doubt that if a pavement owner is sued that they will still permit autocrossing at that site.
Thus, the club is "worried about" making sure they can continue to autocross. And making sure that [B]you[/B] can continue to autocross too. Next time, consider thanking them for it. :huh:
| kfoote | 10-27-2004 10:49 AM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]:rolleyes: Thank you for illustrating my previous point much better than I ever could have.[/QUOTE]
For the record, I agree that skateboards are a bad idea at an auto-X, or the paddock of a Club race.
On an after hours track walk at a road course, there is A LOT more open space than at an auto-X. The result is that it's a lot harder to hurt an innocent bystander. If I hurt myself, and no one else is involved, it's merely stupidity on my part. If I take someone else out with me, or even create a situation where someone else has to avoid me, then it's a problem and deserves some sort of reprimand. When I did this, I believe there were only 3 other people walking the course, and they were in turn 10-11, well out of range of danger.
I have taken my skateboard around many tracks, and this is the only time I ever had an issue at a track. I have enough desire for self preservation that on the steep hills, I'll get off and walk down (Turns 2 and 4 Mosport come to mind here).
For the record, I agree that skateboards are a bad idea at an auto-X, or the paddock of a Club race.
On an after hours track walk at a road course, there is A LOT more open space than at an auto-X. The result is that it's a lot harder to hurt an innocent bystander. If I hurt myself, and no one else is involved, it's merely stupidity on my part. If I take someone else out with me, or even create a situation where someone else has to avoid me, then it's a problem and deserves some sort of reprimand. When I did this, I believe there were only 3 other people walking the course, and they were in turn 10-11, well out of range of danger.
I have taken my skateboard around many tracks, and this is the only time I ever had an issue at a track. I have enough desire for self preservation that on the steep hills, I'll get off and walk down (Turns 2 and 4 Mosport come to mind here).
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2004 11:09 AM |
Jen brings up a great point; what if someone shows up and starts flying around on course via bicycle, and runs over someone unsuspecting just trying to do their coursewalk? I can testify that bicycles have lots of sharp edges and that you can get quite a nasty laceration from it. Whose fault is it then? Where does the blame lie? In today's overly litigious society one needs to be quite careful that they do not trespass upon others in both the figurative and literal sense.
It sounds like Paul's club actually encourages members to engage in what could be construed as risky behavior before they even set off on course in a vehicle. Are the members required to wear a bike helmet like most states require or do you laugh this off and point to the waiver as if it affords you some impenentrable shield of protection? I promise, that piece of paper won't keep someone's cranium from splitting during a bike fall.
I hope you guys have fun with your bike race at the beginning of each event, but I think it would be notably safer to have folks either get up a few minutes earlier or just not worry about walking the course since you always have 8 runs. Average walking time for a mile: about 20 minutes.
It sounds like Paul's club actually encourages members to engage in what could be construed as risky behavior before they even set off on course in a vehicle. Are the members required to wear a bike helmet like most states require or do you laugh this off and point to the waiver as if it affords you some impenentrable shield of protection? I promise, that piece of paper won't keep someone's cranium from splitting during a bike fall.
I hope you guys have fun with your bike race at the beginning of each event, but I think it would be notably safer to have folks either get up a few minutes earlier or just not worry about walking the course since you always have 8 runs. Average walking time for a mile: about 20 minutes.
| paultg | 10-27-2004 11:25 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]
It sounds like Paul's club actually encourages members to engage in what could be construed as risky behavior before they even set off on course in a vehicle. Are the members required to wear a bike helmet like most states require or do you laugh this off and point to the waiver as if it affords you some impenentrable shield of protection? I promise, that piece of paper won't keep someone's cranium from splitting during a bike fall.
I hope you guys have fun with your bike race at the beginning of each event, but I think it would be notably safer to have folks either get up a few minutes earlier or just not worry about walking the course since you always have 8 runs. Average walking time for a mile: about 20 minutes.[/QUOTE]
The safety point has been made, and on paper and on this website I can agree with the explaination by Jcr. My club is not having a bike race before the event, and they don't encourage behavoir that is dangerous to you or others around you. Driving the the event is dangerous, maybe they should make a rule about it to prevent the possibilty of a problem. :rolleyes:
I have problems with the SCCA club in my region for multiple reasons. I'm not against rules, but I am against how they choose to enforce them. That is me though. It all comes down to me being an adult that doesn't enjoy being yelled at and treated like a child on my day off while trying to enjoy my hobby.
I just shouldn't have posted in this thread to begin with, but my first resonse was out of surprise. Do they have rules about what you can eat for breakfest at the event because you might choke, fall, and hit your head all at the same time? :D
The part you rule pushers forget is we are all adults. Do you get on your bike at home and ride through a crowd in front of you? If so, great, don't come to my event. If you have kids and they do then stay home and be a better parent.
Paul G.
It sounds like Paul's club actually encourages members to engage in what could be construed as risky behavior before they even set off on course in a vehicle. Are the members required to wear a bike helmet like most states require or do you laugh this off and point to the waiver as if it affords you some impenentrable shield of protection? I promise, that piece of paper won't keep someone's cranium from splitting during a bike fall.
I hope you guys have fun with your bike race at the beginning of each event, but I think it would be notably safer to have folks either get up a few minutes earlier or just not worry about walking the course since you always have 8 runs. Average walking time for a mile: about 20 minutes.[/QUOTE]
The safety point has been made, and on paper and on this website I can agree with the explaination by Jcr. My club is not having a bike race before the event, and they don't encourage behavoir that is dangerous to you or others around you. Driving the the event is dangerous, maybe they should make a rule about it to prevent the possibilty of a problem. :rolleyes:
I have problems with the SCCA club in my region for multiple reasons. I'm not against rules, but I am against how they choose to enforce them. That is me though. It all comes down to me being an adult that doesn't enjoy being yelled at and treated like a child on my day off while trying to enjoy my hobby.
I just shouldn't have posted in this thread to begin with, but my first resonse was out of surprise. Do they have rules about what you can eat for breakfest at the event because you might choke, fall, and hit your head all at the same time? :D
The part you rule pushers forget is we are all adults. Do you get on your bike at home and ride through a crowd in front of you? If so, great, don't come to my event. If you have kids and they do then stay home and be a better parent.
Paul G.
| Rapid_Roo | 10-27-2004 11:44 AM |
[QUOTE=PKer]Yeah autocross (oops should have mentioned that). I've seen people riding bikes before they were def. not handicapped.
I just want to get more walks in a shorter period, I don't want to run.[/QUOTE]
I've seen them get real pissed at people on the razor scooters last year. ( I think it was at Riverside, last year) . They didn't let them go on course with them. Also, I think it states that you can't do anything but walk the course in the SCCA rule book. ... I think.
RR:D
I just want to get more walks in a shorter period, I don't want to run.[/QUOTE]
I've seen them get real pissed at people on the razor scooters last year. ( I think it was at Riverside, last year) . They didn't let them go on course with them. Also, I think it states that you can't do anything but walk the course in the SCCA rule book. ... I think.
RR:D
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2004 11:55 AM |
[QUOTE=paultg]The safety point has been made, and on paper and on this website I can agree with the explaination by Jcr. My club is not having a bike race before the event, and they don't encourage behavoir that is dangerous to you or others around you. Driving the the event is dangerous, maybe they should make a rule about it to prevent the possibilty of a problem. :rolleyes: [/quote]
Actually, they have a lot of rules about driving during the event. You should pick up a handbook sometime. :lol: :lol: *runs*
[quote=paultg]
I have problems with the SCCA club in my region for multiple reasons. I'm not against rules, but I am against how they choose to enforce them. That is me though. It all comes down to me being an adult that doesn't enjoy being yelled at and treated like a child on my day off while trying to enjoy my hobby. [/quote]
The rules should be enforced equally among all folks. I understand that things can be bent now and then at local events; like when my car has 4 drivers and we're kind of running whenever we can and making sure folks all do some work. Not good if one is singled out or club officers set poor examples (i.e. not lead by example.)
[quote=paultg]
I just shouldn't have posted in this thread to begin with, but my first resonse was out of surprise. Do they have rules about what you can eat for breakfest at the event because you might choke, fall, and hit your head all at the same time? :D[/quote]
I don't think I have seen a rule about eating on course, but there are recommendations for autox folks on more than one website that suggest a reasonable breakfast. We usually have some bananas for folks at my local region and sometimes cookies as well so that at least folks won't go all day without eating. :)
[quote=paultg]
The part you rule pushers forget is we are all adults. Do you get on your bike at home and ride through a crowd in front of you? If so, great, don't come to my event. If you have kids and they do then stay home and be a better parent.
Paul G.[/QUOTE]
I know that we are all adults, however despite the belief that all folks are created equal, maturity levels and responsibility are not. Without guidelines, there are folks out there dumb enough to come to an autox and not know how to behave themselves. I'm sure you have witnessed this before. :)
P.S. Just for my own personal amusement, do you have any pics of your whole club riding bikes/skateboards/rollerblades/segways/razor scooters around course? The concept is so foreign to me I can't quite visualize it. :)
Actually, they have a lot of rules about driving during the event. You should pick up a handbook sometime. :lol: :lol: *runs*
[quote=paultg]
I have problems with the SCCA club in my region for multiple reasons. I'm not against rules, but I am against how they choose to enforce them. That is me though. It all comes down to me being an adult that doesn't enjoy being yelled at and treated like a child on my day off while trying to enjoy my hobby. [/quote]
The rules should be enforced equally among all folks. I understand that things can be bent now and then at local events; like when my car has 4 drivers and we're kind of running whenever we can and making sure folks all do some work. Not good if one is singled out or club officers set poor examples (i.e. not lead by example.)
[quote=paultg]
I just shouldn't have posted in this thread to begin with, but my first resonse was out of surprise. Do they have rules about what you can eat for breakfest at the event because you might choke, fall, and hit your head all at the same time? :D[/quote]
I don't think I have seen a rule about eating on course, but there are recommendations for autox folks on more than one website that suggest a reasonable breakfast. We usually have some bananas for folks at my local region and sometimes cookies as well so that at least folks won't go all day without eating. :)
[quote=paultg]
The part you rule pushers forget is we are all adults. Do you get on your bike at home and ride through a crowd in front of you? If so, great, don't come to my event. If you have kids and they do then stay home and be a better parent.
Paul G.[/QUOTE]
I know that we are all adults, however despite the belief that all folks are created equal, maturity levels and responsibility are not. Without guidelines, there are folks out there dumb enough to come to an autox and not know how to behave themselves. I'm sure you have witnessed this before. :)
P.S. Just for my own personal amusement, do you have any pics of your whole club riding bikes/skateboards/rollerblades/segways/razor scooters around course? The concept is so foreign to me I can't quite visualize it. :)
| paultg | 10-27-2004 12:09 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]
P.S. Just for my own personal amusement, do you have any pics of your whole club riding bikes/skateboards/rollerblades/segways/razor scooters around course? The concept is so foreign to me I can't quite visualize it. :)[/QUOTE]
Nope. It's not everyone. Maybe two or threee folks use them. They have talked about letting us do a slow drive though the course, but most of the time we decide that will actually take longer. I walk, it's good exersize.
As someone else said, we get 8 runs so the walk isn't really a big deal to me. Plus I'm just there to flog on my car and improve over the day, not really serious about the competitive side of things.
I have seen folks who are not mature, etc.. so the guidlines are good. I just think the SCCA takes things to the extreme (at least in my region). I don't see anything wrong with just walking up to the person and discussing the situation with them in a calm manner. Most folks are pretty understanding and won't want to leave the event. That isn't what happens in my experience.
The region I deal with seems to throw a rule at you they would only know about. They have their "click" and that is that. Again, just my experience with the local events by SCCA. Could be different now, but I don't plan on finding out.
Paul G.
P.S. Just for my own personal amusement, do you have any pics of your whole club riding bikes/skateboards/rollerblades/segways/razor scooters around course? The concept is so foreign to me I can't quite visualize it. :)[/QUOTE]
Nope. It's not everyone. Maybe two or threee folks use them. They have talked about letting us do a slow drive though the course, but most of the time we decide that will actually take longer. I walk, it's good exersize.
As someone else said, we get 8 runs so the walk isn't really a big deal to me. Plus I'm just there to flog on my car and improve over the day, not really serious about the competitive side of things.
I have seen folks who are not mature, etc.. so the guidlines are good. I just think the SCCA takes things to the extreme (at least in my region). I don't see anything wrong with just walking up to the person and discussing the situation with them in a calm manner. Most folks are pretty understanding and won't want to leave the event. That isn't what happens in my experience.
The region I deal with seems to throw a rule at you they would only know about. They have their "click" and that is that. Again, just my experience with the local events by SCCA. Could be different now, but I don't plan on finding out.
Paul G.
| PKer | 10-27-2004 12:10 PM |
Well that answers my question....
| paultg | 10-27-2004 12:14 PM |
[QUOTE=PKer]Well that answers my question....[/QUOTE]
What question?
:lol:
Sorry..
Paul G.
What question?
:lol:
Sorry..
Paul G.
| KC | 10-27-2004 12:15 PM |
[QUOTE=paultg]The region I deal with seems to throw a rule at you they would only know about. They have their "click" and that is that. Again, just my experience with the local events by SCCA. Could be different now, but I don't plan on finding out.
Paul G.[/QUOTE] That was my point Paul. Things have changed since the last time you went to a local SCCA event. 1) We are, for the most part, getting more than three runs (your 1st beef). More people have become involved by voluenteering in making the day run, which means there's not just one or two people making all the decisions for 170 people. That, in turn, means those few people are less hassled and frazzled and much less apt to 'snap' at the event. :) The events have come a long way in the past few years.
So, things, have changed for the better and we've fixed those shortcmings that we had 4 years ago that you saw personally.
(And by the way, I wasn't implying your club was running an unsafe event... I would have to be there to judge that personally.. as I really don't buy into hearsay much. However that other club I run with, that I also mentioned me taking my bike out on the course, is one of the clubs that does exceed the speed limit.. and they have been talken to... that is the club I was was talking about.)
Paul G.[/QUOTE] That was my point Paul. Things have changed since the last time you went to a local SCCA event. 1) We are, for the most part, getting more than three runs (your 1st beef). More people have become involved by voluenteering in making the day run, which means there's not just one or two people making all the decisions for 170 people. That, in turn, means those few people are less hassled and frazzled and much less apt to 'snap' at the event. :) The events have come a long way in the past few years.
So, things, have changed for the better and we've fixed those shortcmings that we had 4 years ago that you saw personally.
(And by the way, I wasn't implying your club was running an unsafe event... I would have to be there to judge that personally.. as I really don't buy into hearsay much. However that other club I run with, that I also mentioned me taking my bike out on the course, is one of the clubs that does exceed the speed limit.. and they have been talken to... that is the club I was was talking about.)
| makofoto | 10-27-2004 12:23 PM |
I like walking the course ... because honestly ... I don't get much exercise else where! :-)
There is a (non-SCCA) annual event in Lonepine, CA ... where the (abandoned airport runway) track is over a mile long. There is no course walking ... instead ... all of the cars follow a pace car through the course. At first fairly slowly ... then at slightly elevated speeds. We did about 6 or 7 laps like this ... some people dropping out whenever they wanted. Not only does this give one a chance to learn the (fast and open) course ... it is necessary in order to wear down the weeds that have grown since the last event. This, even though the organizer goes up the week before to try and trim back as much of the weeds as possible.
When I did this event last year there were only about 45 cars ... but apparently in the past ... they had larger fields. This is however not your normal AutoCross. The STI's were hitting 110 before entering one of the slaloms! There are plenty of places where one can go off track at high speed and hit the dirt sideways ... with predictable results.
I just wanted to point out that on longer course ... there is the option to have everyone drive the course to learn it ... behind a pace car. Of course this isn't practical with larger fields.
Our local BMW club doesn't encourage walking the course in the morning ... instead it has non-timed runs in the morning ... for learning the course. They offer 6 to 8 runs in the morning ... then 3 timed race runs in the afternoon. This is so that people who don't want to run without insurance can do none competitive runs ... and then go home before the race runs where typically our insurance coverage stops. Of course ... they also limit their fields to I believe no more then 60 cars.
There is a (non-SCCA) annual event in Lonepine, CA ... where the (abandoned airport runway) track is over a mile long. There is no course walking ... instead ... all of the cars follow a pace car through the course. At first fairly slowly ... then at slightly elevated speeds. We did about 6 or 7 laps like this ... some people dropping out whenever they wanted. Not only does this give one a chance to learn the (fast and open) course ... it is necessary in order to wear down the weeds that have grown since the last event. This, even though the organizer goes up the week before to try and trim back as much of the weeds as possible.
When I did this event last year there were only about 45 cars ... but apparently in the past ... they had larger fields. This is however not your normal AutoCross. The STI's were hitting 110 before entering one of the slaloms! There are plenty of places where one can go off track at high speed and hit the dirt sideways ... with predictable results.
I just wanted to point out that on longer course ... there is the option to have everyone drive the course to learn it ... behind a pace car. Of course this isn't practical with larger fields.
Our local BMW club doesn't encourage walking the course in the morning ... instead it has non-timed runs in the morning ... for learning the course. They offer 6 to 8 runs in the morning ... then 3 timed race runs in the afternoon. This is so that people who don't want to run without insurance can do none competitive runs ... and then go home before the race runs where typically our insurance coverage stops. Of course ... they also limit their fields to I believe no more then 60 cars.
| paultg | 10-27-2004 12:45 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]
Our local BMW club doesn't encourage walking the course in the morning ... instead it has non-timed runs in the morning ... for learning the course. They offer 6 to 8 runs in the morning ... then 3 timed race runs in the afternoon. This is so that people who don't want to run without insurance can do none competitive runs ... and then go home before the race runs where typically our insurance coverage stops. Of course ... they also limit their fields to I believe no more then 60 cars.[/QUOTE]
Thats a pretty cool idea.
Our local BMW club doesn't encourage walking the course in the morning ... instead it has non-timed runs in the morning ... for learning the course. They offer 6 to 8 runs in the morning ... then 3 timed race runs in the afternoon. This is so that people who don't want to run without insurance can do none competitive runs ... and then go home before the race runs where typically our insurance coverage stops. Of course ... they also limit their fields to I believe no more then 60 cars.[/QUOTE]
Thats a pretty cool idea.
| jcroy66 | 10-27-2004 12:47 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]This is so that people who don't want to run without insurance can do none competitive runs ... and then go home before the race runs where typically our insurance coverage stops.[/QUOTE]
Intriguing idea that I hadn't thought of. Hmmm. :devil: Because indeed the "timed" portion of autocross is exactly what our insurance agent objected to...
Intriguing idea that I hadn't thought of. Hmmm. :devil: Because indeed the "timed" portion of autocross is exactly what our insurance agent objected to...
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2004 01:03 PM |
[QUOTE=paultg]Thats a pretty cool idea.[/QUOTE]
I thought so too. :)
I thought so too. :)
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